Talk to Ashiel About Anything Mark II

[Ashiel]

Hey Ashiel, can I ask you about something I am working on?

I am trying to make a Google Sheets based character sheet so that I can use/give to friends a character sheet that doesn't annoy the &%$ out of me for various reasons (like every other sheet I have seen), and I have got the first page semi-ready. I would like your opinion on how the styling looks, and how functional you think it would be. Anyone else can chip in too, of course.

PDF link

At first glance it looks pretty decent to me. I like the details for the ability scores (listing things like damage, penalties, inherents).
Ditto for the level progression section. Including stuff like favored class bonus is a nice touch.
I liked the jokes spread across the sheet as well.

All in all, I like it. If the rest of the pages are great, I might have to recommend it to my friends the next time we get around to playing tabletop.

[Zilrax]

So basically that all gods took levels in bard at some point?

They were gods. Obviously they were the first bards.

Mythology is fascinating, but I find whats even more interesting is finding the correlations between when the myths shifted in tone or description and what was happening in the lives of the people at the time, like the whole Apep/Set thing corresponding to Egypts increasingly negative view of non-egyptians. These things never happen in a vacuum after all, so it's always fun to try and see if something like that links up.

[DracoknightZero]

They were gods. Obviously they were the first bards.

Mythology is fascinating, but I find whats even more interesting is finding the correlations between when the myths shifted in tone or description and what was happening in the lives of the people at the time, like the whole Apep/Set thing corresponding to Egypts increasingly negative view of non-egyptians. These things never happen in a vacuum after all, so it's always fun to try and see if something like that links up.

Indeed, one thing i havent quite looked into is how descriptive the mythos about Ragnarok is in Norse... i wonder if that part was made around the time of the Black Death, or if that was the cause of some other major incident... or just... "The world will end, and this will happend" like some kind of doomsday prophecy?

For Greek/Roman i have a bit of a hard time splitting the two, but they are quite similar to the point you dont really care too much unless you are discussing the difference between the two.

You also have the "retellings" of old battles and the heroes and such, personally as a D&D player it really is a large inspiration source for concepts. My way of making characters is first to pick a "theme" and then develop mechanics and personallity as i go. Sometimes i try to make the combat style and personality match, and other times i kinda go lazy and just play myself + traits overplayed. ( Last character i played was a Oracle of Time which was a more clumsy and emotional version of Lenneth the Valkyrie http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=431834 )

I have to admit the mythos of Angels, Valkyries and the similar "Winged Humanoids" are a favorite theme of mine.

[Tels]

50 Urban Legends, one from each state. Potential adventure hooks or campaign details to spice up your world.

[Zilrax]

Indeed, one thing i havent quite looked into is how descriptive the mythos about Ragnarok is in Norse... i wonder if that part was made around the time of the Black Death, or if that was the cause of some other major incident... or just... "The world will end, and this will happend" like some kind of doomsday prophecy?

For Greek/Roman i have a bit of a hard time splitting the two, but they are quite similar to the point you dont really care too much unless you are discussing the difference between the two.

You also have the "retellings" of old battles and the heroes and such, personally as a D&D player it really is a large inspiration source for concepts. My way of making characters is first to pick a "theme" and then develop mechanics and personallity as i go. Sometimes i try to make the combat style and personality match, and other times i kinda go lazy and just play myself + traits overplayed. ( Last character i played was a Oracle of Time which was a more clumsy and emotional version of Lenneth the Valkyrie http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=431834 )

I have to admit the mythos of Angels, Valkyries and the similar "Winged Humanoids" are a favorite theme of mine.

I usually go for whatever interests me mechanically at the time then let the personality and character evolve on it's own generally. For example, I got bored and decided to see how far I could push crossbow damage. And somewhere along the way got distracted by Reaper from Overwatch and ended up with a Kasatha with four Heavy Wrist Launchers firing off 7 bolts for silly damage but low accuracy, but using grit to make them touch attacks to compensate. And then ended up with a precipitation naming theme somehow.

As for mythology, I find I don't have a favorite per say. There's so many interesting ones, and a lot get overlooked in favor of the Greco-Roman ones. Not that they are bad in any way, and people often forget about a lot of the entities in the lot. Like few people remember the Primordial entities. They know the greek gods and they usually know some of the Titans, but rarely the progenitors of the Titans.

Personally I kinda enjoy jsut making mythology based off the species themselves. I've made... I don't know how many dnd worlds now. One I decided to go through each core race, and a few others and just... Figure out what made more sense to me. Like the elves being super pale and such is a liability in nature. So I made them quite the opposite of natural, favoring magic heavily. Meanwhile, the Dark Elves prefer technology and enchanted objects. They're dark hued and have darkvision because their cities are choked with smog and ash, blocking out the sun and it permanently stains their skin dark, and they've developed resistance to magic due to their dislike of direct magic.

Meanwhile the Halflings dwell on sheer cliffs at high altitudes where their smaller size is an advantage moving along narrow crevasses. They always seek to go ever higher, and believe they once had a great city on the highest peak, but were cast out by the mountain spirits, hence the altitude sickness thing. A Halfling in a non halfling settlement inevitably will attempt to climb on top of tables and into rafters to converse from. As such, dark elves began selling a new version of their self cleaning countertop for removing Halfling Stuff.

Gnomes meanwhile are like swamp dwelling leperchauns who use illusion magic to lure the bigger more dangerous creatures of the swamps into quick sands when threatened, on the promise of "gnomish gold." A Gnome's first thing when they go anywhere is usually finding three diffrent escape routes.

Orcs meanwhile used to be one really really massive orc who was tricked by a hero and then shattered into a billion pieces. All these pieces became the orcish race, and are very angry and lash out violently, but are prone to grouping up anyways, because their natural instinct is to try to somehow reform into the whole. But it's undermined by that infuriating sense they're missing things. Orcs often have to overcome this to associate managebly with non aggresive species.

Just things like that kinda interest me. Stuff that sorta sounds legitimate. Just has to sound it, heh.

[DracoknightZero]

My Mythweaver have gotten up to about 30-40 sheets by now with different house rule variants, but all in essence pathfinder.

First on my list is a handful of characters for a homebrew E6 that my friend is putting together:

Spoiler: Links for the group

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http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=834076
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=862373
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=836371
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=836587
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=832723
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=834118
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=834134
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=845696

Blitz is a low level "Arcane Archer" type, Bounty Hunter is a cavalier that exploit the order that lets him bind people with his rope easily. Leader is a Noble with rapier Daring Champion which was meant as a "martial supporter". "Rock" is just a Dwarf "meat wall", "Rusty" is a warpriest with the startoss setup. Tag is a Eldricht Guardian with his Mauler familiar, and Zealot is combat cleric.

The list of homebrew rules are insane, but you get 1 feat at the halfway point to each level, some feats are "buildt in" to just require +1 BAB, and the requirements for a lot of feats are revised and what not.

Then we have my backup characters to one of our campagins that is 34 point buy, one of them is a Dervish of dawn with a bit of horizon walker to make a "dancing through the dimensions" kind of deal, and the other is a kitsune enchantress sorcerer with a 3rd party archtype that let me take tails instead of spells.

Spoiler: Aya Kyogen and The Dimensional Dervish

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http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=227249
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=239535

A Gestalt Paladin&Bloodrager, Your basic "Smite and Cleave" i thought the idea was hilarious.

Spoiler: Kain

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http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=512931

And some various characters i made for fun at lvl 20, Winter Witch with as good Cold spells as possible and a weird setup with Crimson Assassin where i tried to get as many dimension doors as possible into the build at 15pt buy.

Spoiler: Crimson Assassin and Winter Witch

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http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=269585
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=852226

A kingmaker rogue, with the "glory rogue" 3rd party archtype and Scout and Knifemaster to get daggers into the light.

Spoiler: Raviel Hess

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http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=273592

And a Warpriest of Pharasma i made at lv 16 to test out how much i could get out of daggers. Inspired from the rogue attempt above.

Spoiler: Warpriest with daggers and stuff.

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http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=943722

Addendum: I make most of my characters at 15pt buy, as it puts a challenge to the making, and its easier to put more points in later if the campagin i use the character for allows more.

[Tels]

It amazes me what GMs will allow in their games. Came across a guy on Reddit wanting help as a new player Ina gestalt game that is headed for PvP. One of his future enemies is a Forsaker/Barbarian and he is playing an Arcanist/Investigator.

After reading the Forsaker, I have to wonder, "Do some GMs just want to see their games utterly ruined my OP nonsense?"

PvP is set to happen around level 11 and I told the guy the only way to win, was not to fight. Either that, or murder him now before he becomes any more powerful.

[DracoknightZero]

It amazes me what GMs will allow in their games. Came across a guy on Reddit wanting help as a new player Ina gestalt game that is headed for PvP. One of his future enemies is a Forsaker/Barbarian and he is playing an Arcanist/Investigator.

After reading the Forsaker, I have to wonder, "Do some GMs just want to see their games utterly ruined my OP nonsense?"

PvP is set to happen around level 11 and I told the guy the only way to win, was not to fight. Either that, or murder him now before he becomes any more powerful.

Jeez, I suppose you could go for a Kitsune Mesmer/Sorcerer and just dominate his willsave and ask him to kill himself. At lvl 11 that should be a rather easy feat, or just cast a extended hold person/creature and Coup him a few rounds.
Just make sure you have higher initative ^^;

[Klara Meison]

It amazes me what GMs will allow in their games. Came across a guy on Reddit wanting help as a new player Ina gestalt game that is headed for PvP. One of his future enemies is a Forsaker/Barbarian and he is playing an Arcanist/Investigator.

After reading the Forsaker, I have to wonder, "Do some GMs just want to see their games utterly ruined my OP nonsense?"

PvP is set to happen around level 11 and I told the guy the only way to win, was not to fight. Either that, or murder him now before he becomes any more powerful.

Heh, that's one way to "fix" caster/martial disparity I suppose.

Jeez, I suppose you could go for a Kitsune Mesmer/Sorcerer and just dominate his willsave and ask him to kill himself. At lvl 11 that should be a rather easy feat, or just cast a extended hold person/creature and Coup him a few rounds.
Just make sure you have higher initative ^^;

Forsaker gains magic immunity at lv 10. Good luck with that.

[Tels]

Jeez, I suppose you could go for a Kitsune Mesmer/Sorcerer and just dominate his willsave and ask him to kill himself. At lvl 11 that should be a rather easy feat, or just cast a extended hold person/creature and Coup him a few rounds.
Just make sure you have higher initative ^^;

Forsaker starts off with a SR of 10+HD and it increases to 15+HD at level 5. At 10th he becomes immune to magic, lime a golem. At 9th he can emit an antimagic field, as the spell, a number of times per day equal to his Charisma mod.

Really read through the class and it's total bonkers. Fast Healing equal to his level at level 3, gains +2 to all ability scores at 3rd and a further +2 every 4 levels after. Permanent freedom of movement at 7th.... For a class that supposedly forsakes all magic, it actually duplicates a lot of spells, "except they're extraordinary, and totally not magical."

Also, don't forget this is a gestalt game and the guy is also a full on Barbarian. Except he simply can't take any Supernatural Barbarian rage powers.

[DracoknightZero]

Forsaker starts off with a SR of 10+HD and it increases to 15+HD at level 5. At 10th he becomes immune to magic, lime a golem. At 9th he can emit an antimagic field, as the spell, a number of times per day equal to his Charisma mod.

Really read through the class and it's total bonkers. Fast Healing equal to his level at level 3, gains +2 to all ability scores at 3rd and a further +2 every 4 levels after. Permanent freedom of movement at 7th.... For a class that supposedly forsakes all magic, it actually duplicates a lot of spells, "except they're extraordinary, and totally not magical."

Oh.... you know what? That class is lifetime BANNED in every game i every even look at.... holy crap, who thought that was a good idea to even MAKE?

[Zilrax]

I've a ton of sheets as well, just... I've only ever actually gotten to use maybe 8 of them?

Let's see... Got my necromancer healer who uses gentle repose combined with animate dead and really fresh corpses as she can get to study biology as lifelike as possible to help the living and such. Pretty heretical where she's from, but just means she's secretive about it. Undead Lord Cleric, nothing too special.

Got a Vitalist who's trying to become a Ghost. Because nevermind having an psionic character who can stand 500ft away and heal people, I want to hide in a wall and do it :p. Share in my immortality, mwahaha. Vitalist, going into an alternate version of Uncarnate from The Seventh Path. Love that book. I had the old 3.5 book that had the adventure that contained psionic necromancy. Good times. Bit sad none of the moves allow controlling undead beyond body swap, but lots of ghost fun in there.

Got an ogre sized Stalker. One of the odder things that happened to a character. Had a low str to begin with so ultimately it had little change since was dex based fighting, but now just means whether I'm the size of a mountain or end up somehow the size of a gnat, I will make things suffer.

Bunch of npcs... Couple cohorts... The time I demonstrated mythic by trying to make a Lich who could smother entire armies with his spells...

And then all the char sheets I made mucking around with these. Waiting for the full release, which got delayed due to erm... Unfortunate fatal incident. Not that I'm likely to eveeeeeeer find a gm for it haha.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/3rd-pa...dragon-taninim
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-...conic-exemplar

[DracoknightZero]

Speaking of fatal incidents, a kingmaker campagin i was a player in stopped adruptly because one of the players died.
IRL thats it.

[Tels]

Oh.... you know what? That class is lifetime BANNED in every game i every even look at.... holy crap, who thought that was a good idea to even MAKE?

The idea, I think, was to compensate for the harsh restrictions of the class. It can never willingly benefit from magic in any form: spells, SLA, psionics, supernatural abilities, even magic items. It forsakes magic to such a degree, you become something like a tear in the fabric of magic and magic just stops working in your vicinity.

The idea is cool and all, but t the execution is badly flawed.

[DracoknightZero]

The idea, I think, was to compensate for the harsh restrictions of the class. It can never willingly benefit from magic in any form: spells, SLA, psionics, supernatural abilities, even magic items. It forsakes magic to such a degree, you become something like a tear in the fabric of magic and magic just stops working in your vicinity.

The idea is cool and all, but t the execution is badly flawed.

Its stuff like that which makes my group make 3rd party stuff banned by default and then we open if the DM and the rest of the party agree to make it avaliable.

I actually made a class myself at some point, its for the E6 my friend made, and he actually made the class "canon" in his world. ^^;;

Spoiler: A attempt to make a D&D version of the Final Fantasy "Dragoon"

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https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RX5G1CS-59S7ltagE9Yt69ZnGcuKrgXS-BU8Iu05ryM/edit?usp=sharing

[Zilrax]

Well there's some difference, usually, between something someone made and stuck on a wiki and a purchased product. Not enough diffrence sometimes but yeah some things are quite derp.

[Rynjin]

The idea, I think, was to compensate for the harsh restrictions of the class. It can never willingly benefit from magic in any form: spells, SLA, psionics, supernatural abilities, even magic items. It forsakes magic to such a degree, you become something like a tear in the fabric of magic and magic just stops working in your vicinity.

The idea is cool and all, but t the execution is badly flawed.

Honestly the resistances and immunities in a certain kind of game aren't that big of a deal. Sure, you're a tank, but what else have you got going for you?

If that was the extent of it, it'd be kinda stronk, but whatever. It's stuff like this:

"As a move action you can read the motions of a creature in 60 ft. and learn their next intended action, such as "attack your cleric" or "cast a buff spell" or "attempt to flee". The DC is 10 + CR of the creature, or the creature's opposed bluff check, whichever is higher. If the creature is amorphous or inhuman, you take a -4 penalty on your roll. "

That make me look askance at it. Locking the GM into an action a round in advance is such a monumental headache that at the very least this ability would need to be removed.

[DracoknightZero]

Honestly the resistances and immunities in a certain kind of game aren't that big of a deal. Sure, you're a tank, but what else have you got going for you?

If that was the extent of it, it'd be kinda stronk, but whatever. It's stuff like this:

"As a move action you can read the motions of a creature in 60 ft. and learn their next intended action, such as "attack your cleric" or "cast a buff spell" or "attempt to flee". The DC is 10 + CR of the creature, or the creature's opposed bluff check, whichever is higher. If the creature is amorphous or inhuman, you take a -4 penalty on your roll. "

That make me look askance at it. Locking the GM into an action a round in advance is such a monumental headache that at the very least this ability would need to be removed.

The issue is mostly that its used in a Gestalt so you have a magic immune barbarian, but with further thought... you cant use any magic items at all. Your AC will suck massively, you have no additional damage except for your strenght and power attack, and you have no further immunities to stuff like demoralize and poisons.

So you are magic immune and can cancel out magic as you please, which is very strong in itself... but you are just a mundane Barbarian underneath and you would have issues if you met a Physical Ranged character, like a Ranger/Inquisitor, a Telekinetic mage or if the DM actually split magic and psionics you could destroy him that way.

[Tels]

The issue is mostly that its used in a Gestalt so you have a magic immune barbarian, but with further thought... you cant use any magic items at all. Your AC will suck massively, you have no additional damage except for your strenght and power attack, and you have no further immunities to stuff like demoralize and poisons.

So you are magic immune and can cancel out magic as you please, which is very strong in itself... but you are just a mundane Barbarian underneath and you would have issues if you met a Physical Ranged character, like a Ranger/Inquisitor, a Telekinetic mage or if the DM actually split magic and psionics you could destroy him that way.

He actually gains scaling bonuses to all ability scores and scaling dodge bonus to AC. No damage bonus though. Also, any plan relying on magic is foolhardy at best. By the time the PvP is expected to go down, he is immune to any magic with SR and can negate magic with an antimagic field. The field isn't evdnimited to rounds per day, it's as the spell a number of times a day equal to Cha mod. So at 9th level, he can "cast" it at least once and it lasts for 90 minutes. This makes him practically immune to any spell or psionic ability you want to through at him. Then he just comes after yoh and tears you apart.

Remember, inside the field, no one else has magic either, but he still has his scaling AC and ability scores. At 2nd level, he increases the maximum dexterity bonus of any armor he wears to equal his Forsaker level. So come PvP time, he could wear full plate with a max Dex bonus of 11, more than enough for his boosted Dex score.

[DracoknightZero]

He actually gains scaling bonuses to all ability scores and scaling dodge bonus to AC. No damage bonus though. Also, any plan relying on magic is foolhardy at best. By the time the PvP is expected to go down, he is immune to any magic with SR and can negate magic with an antimagic field. The field isn't evdnimited to rounds per day, it's as the spell a number of times a day equal to Cha mod. So at 9th level, he can "cast" it at least once and it lasts for 90 minutes. This makes him practically immune to any spell or psionic ability you want to through at him. Then he just comes after yoh and tears you apart.

Remember, inside the field, no one else has magic either, but he still has his scaling AC and ability scores. At 2nd level, he increases the maximum dexterity bonus of any armor he wears to equal his Forsaker level. So come PvP time, he could wear full plate with a max Dex bonus of 11, more than enough for his boosted Dex score.

...Obviously i should read t he class before saying anything... but you know... the more i hear about it the more it sounds like one of the games we played as a kid: "I shot you!" "No, because i have a invisible shield" and in the end it just sounds like a "Mary Sue" class which is written by a person that "he is immune to X with no penalties"

Btw, Psionics is actually not "magic" per say, but often DMs make it magic just for the sake of simplicity. ( At least the 3rd party variant, not the occult ones )

So how are we going to counter this mess of a class anyway? Just Earthquake the arena and hope he dies in the rubble? Summon a Volcano? Bind a Planar being so it isnt a "summon"? Just make a hyper martial that basically dont need magical items to beat someone to a blump?

If anything i do think you could more or less "kite" him using a Mount and mounted archery and just run in circles full-rounding him while moving. Add the horse-shoes of speed for more distance and hope his anti-magic field doesnt cover the entire arena?

*sigh* I get so ranty and annoyed about the whole "I do X to counter" "But, i have Y so it doesnt work" setups... it really drains the fun out of any semblance of PvP in D&D... especially in discussions where none of the sides specify what they have and make their characters so vague that you could basically be a lv 20 wizard&Cleric&Fighter&Rogue with 99 in every attribute and immunity to everything including DM fiat.

[Tels]

I could swear that magic-psionic-equivalency was the assumed norm as far as Dreamscarred Press was concerned, which is a reversal of previous editions. It's recommended that things that affect magic, like SR or antimagic equally affect psionics and vice-versa.

Apparently, the guy who made the class dropped in on the Reddit thread and said the class was considered "high powered" to Pathfinders "moderate" classes as per the regulations on the wiki. He and someone from the wiki it's hosted on got a little butthurt because I said it was a "bull****" class and shouldn't exist.

[Klara Meison]

The issue is mostly that its used in a Gestalt so you have a magic immune barbarian, but with further thought... you cant use any magic items at all. Your AC will suck massively, you have no additional damage except for your strenght and power attack, and you have no further immunities to stuff like demoralize and poisons.

So you are magic immune and can cancel out magic as you please, which is very strong in itself... but you are just a mundane Barbarian underneath and you would have issues if you met a Physical Ranged character, like a Ranger/Inquisitor, a Telekinetic mage or if the DM actually split magic and psionics you could destroy him that way.

>Your AC will suck massively

Forsaker gets +10 to DEX, +10 deflection AC bonus and +5 armor bonus by lv 20 before accounting for armor. That's +20 AC bonus unless I am mistaken. By lv 20 a forsaker could be rocking a 42-ish AC without much difficulty.

>you have no additional damage except for your strenght and power attack

They do get a Magebane enchantment on their weapons, and ignore hardness/DR. In addition, they get +10 STR(+5 damage), a +5 untyped weapon bonus(+5 damage) and some bonus combat feats so it's not like they are very much behind a Fighter or something.

>and you have no further immunities to stuff like demoralize and poisons.

Forsakers are immune to poisons and diseases since lv 6, and immune to fear since lv 3. See under "Extraordinary Immunities". Here is what they get by lv 20:

Immunity to blindness, deafness, fear, disease, poison, ability damage, ability drain, energy drain, paralysis, polymorphing effects (including petrification and turning into dust if slain by destruction), death effects, fatigue, exhaustion, sickened condition, nausea condition, dazing, stunning, all the immunities and abilities associated with mind blank(as in, he gains them, not becomes immune to them), and critical hits.

This is a pretty terribly over the curve class and it's author should think really hard about their behavior.

EDIT: amusingly enough, it can't fly or move fast. So as long as you destroy his bow and stay at least 60 ft away, it can't do anything.

[DracoknightZero]

Apparently, the guy who made the class dropped in on the Reddit thread and said the class was considered "high powered" to Pathfinders "moderate" classes as per the regulations on the wiki. He and someone from the wiki it's hosted on got a little butthurt because I said it was a "bull****" class and shouldn't exist.

I would call him a Mary Sue and make sure the class a all-time banned from every game i ever look at... How bad can you be at the game to even consider this class "Moderate"? Even "High powered" is stretching it a bit as its just all out BOLLOCKS!
Just... what the hell?

Personally i dont even mind that my characters have some weaknesses and even if i have the ability to make them a non-issue i feel like its a part of the character that there is just something that they are weak to. Ingame it could have fatal consequences, but what is the point of a party if you are going to be the "Do all, end all"?

Like my oracle character is a "Combat-Oracle" with time mystery and mostly buff spells, the weakness is the time to set up the buffs and the lack of "1-turn combat enders" spells before in the later levels, or just playing a rogue! One of the weaker classes in the game and yet so bloody popular.

Yet to read anything of the Forsaken class, and i dont think i ever want to either because it would just make me lose faith in humanity, but you have a class that would be interesting as a "disrupting magic" kind of theme, but you have a character that NULLIFY every non-magic means to beat him, you have a character that NULLIFY other casters, you have a character that NULLIFY other martial characters equipment while he himself gain the equivalent of a full set of free magical gear for litterally no penalty. "But he cant use magic stuff!" I hear you say... bollocks he doesnt need to as virtually everything he meets will be a mundane equipment goon, and the stuff that can kill him cant even hit him!

When your class kan do Defense, Offense and Utility all at once while nullifying basically 90% of the beastiary AND the classes... you just have to wonder.... WTF are you smoking?

[Rynjin]

>Your AC will suck massively

Forsaker gets +10 to DEX, +10 deflection AC bonus and +5 armor bonus by lv 20 before accounting for armor. That's +20 AC bonus unless I am mistaken. By lv 20 a forsaker could be rocking a 42-ish AC without much difficulty.

Agree with your other points mostly but a 42 AC at level 20 is GARBAGE. Remember a CR 20 creature is going to have an average of +30 on its attack (many are quite a bit higher), and gets a lot of attacks per round, usually. These are the creatures going to be sent at you in mobs. Boss creatures (CR 24-25) are hitting that on a 5-7 multiple times a round.

This class is basically screwed in any encounter against a dragon, probably. Just as an example. Its damage output is okay, but nothing to write home about, and a dragon in an AMF is still a beast.

[Lemmy]

Seems like a pretty boring class to play, for the most part... Doesn't seem to have much utility or variety.

[Klara Meison]

Agree with your other points mostly but a 42 AC at level 20 is GARBAGE. Remember a CR 20 creature is going to have an average of +30 on its attack (many are quite a bit higher), and gets a lot of attacks per round, usually. These are the creatures going to be sent at you in mobs. Boss creatures (CR 24-25) are hitting that on a 5-7 multiple times a round.

This class is basically screwed in any encounter against a dragon, probably. Just as an example. Its damage output is okay, but nothing to write home about, and a dragon in an AMF is still a beast.

I said "Without much difficulty". You can go higher. Start with 16 DEX, improve it to 18 with levelup bonuses, to 28 with class bonus. This gives you +9 to AC.

+10 deflection from class

+9 plate mail

+5 armor bonus from class

+2 shield

+5 combat expertise because who are you going to compete with for attack bonuses in an AMF?

+2 various feats

=52 AC just off the top of my head.

[Ashiel]

I will point out that they'd be loosing 11 points worth of stats over their career. Not being able to benefit from spells means no inherent modifiers from wish. Their lack of mobility isn't particularly helpful either since even being able to fart antimagic fields won't protect you against prismatic spells (such as prismatic wall, prismatic spray, etc), and IIRC I don't think spells like wall of force care about antimagic field. Spell Sunder on the barbarian side is a supernatural ability so that's off the table, so CC'ing the guy by simply placing obstacles in his way seems simple enough. At least until 15th level where he gets super goofy magic immunity.

I also noticed that the class lacks any sort of energy resistances which is bad news. There's a lot of ways of drowning a character in elemental damage without directly affecting the character with magic. For example, this character is vulnerable to alchemist-fire spam throughout its entire career. Most adventurers can be comfortably immune to alchemist fire spam by low-mid levels (6+ maybe) easily enough, but a bunch of goblins no longer worth XP can melt one of these guys to pieces. He's likewise vulnerable to all sorts of environmental effects, and Ex energy damage attacks such as the Ankheg's acid spitting ability, etc.

There's also little protection for him against things like planar binding since such creatures are called rather than summoned. So a cleric can still just gate in a Solar and let it rip him to shreds (fun fact, it's literally impossible for this guy to kill a solar since there's no non-supernatural way of inflicting aligned damage to the solar, to my knowledge).

I wouldn't ever play one of these. If only because their options consist of "I attack it again, I don't even activate any magic items".

[Tels]

Bypass Damage Reduction (Ex): At 4th level, a forsaker begins to force his will into his weapon to bypass damage reduction and strike incorporeal creatures as if using a magic weapon. At 8th level, this ability improves to also bypass damage reduction as if using a weapon aligned to his own alignment (for example, a LG forsaker would deal lawful and good damage with a sword) and act as ghost touch weapons. If the forsaker is TN, choose one alignment which your weapons bypass. At 12th level, his weapons bypass damage reduction based on materials such as silver or cold iron. At 16th level, his weapons bypass any aligned damaged reduction, not just his own alignment. Finally at 20th, he completely ignores damage reduction, including DR/epic and DR/-.

You are right, he doesn't have any energy resistance, and that leaves him vulnerablerable to only non-magical energy damage effects, which are rare for PCs to use.

Remember, he is going to be in a PvP scenario with half the party vs the other half. He has a Sorcerer/Oracle Lich on his side vs a Paladin/unknown and an Arcanist/Investigator. The Arcanist is the guy asking for help because he's new at the game and the other two (Forsaker and Lich) are veteran munchkins.

[Rynjin]

Why are one player and the newb o one team while Munchkin 1 and Munchkin 2 are on the other?

[DracoknightZero]

Because its 1on1 and they are eventually going to meet eachother for some reason?

Anyway, breaking into a completely different topic: I have thought of a curse that would be somewhat interesting, basically you have a curse or a cursed item that just is a constant "speak with plants" spell on it.
It might sound useful at first and thats the fun part as it seems useful, but heres the curse part: since you cant turn it off or remove it ( without a proper remove curse ) the character constantly hear the whining and talking of all the plants within his range of hearing at all times slowly driving him insane.

Imagne walking in the forest hearing the grass under your feet constantly screaming and complaining that you are stepping on them, or the trees around you talking crap about your band of adventures or other useless things. Mechanically it would make your perception for hearing a lot worse ( take a -5 or more depending on the density of the plantlife )

I was thinking of having a NPC that became a hermit on a top of a icy mountain just to get away from all of the voices, and maybe he just have just a single mountain tree he speaks to just to appear insane to the players that find him.