Guys: Stop Being The White Knight, Doormat, Nice Guy, Etc...

[OverdrivePrime]

Introvert doesn't mean "dislikes other people". It doesn't necessarily mean "socially inept" or even "shy". It means that social gatherings take a lot out of you and you gain energy from being inside yourself. Introverts still have friends, enjoy going out and having relationships. They just need to refuel with some silence.
It also is not-uncommonly paired with shyness and anxiety in situations in which much is expected of the introvert.

I don't normally read about introversion being paired with a lack of interest in romantic relationships, or an unwillingness to do nice things on behalf of a person high on one's "awesome and smoochable" list, so I don't see how being an introvert would keep someone out of a healthy relationship. Or at least once you get around the problem of enduring social gatherings long enough to meet someone and get to know that they're awesome and smoochable.

[JustSomeGuy]

If it helps, having studied sports psychology (or more accurately, dabbled with reading something resembling a book), the terms introverted and extroverted take on a different meaning, stemming from intrinsic vs. extrinsic motivation:

Introverted athletes draw inspiration and motivation for success from within themselves, ie. they perform becasue they want to fulfill their own needs - like the guy who gets knocked down and has a little word with himself before gritting hsi teetch and getting back up again.

Extroverted athletes draw inspiration and motivation from others, they desire to perform to impress their teamates/opposition/coaches etc. or achieve rewards, such as bonuses, better contracts, sponsorship deals, tv spots and adulation from their home nation and press/media. That would be the guy who gets knocked down, and the crowd start chanting and cheering, willing him back on to his feet as he rides the wave of emotion to spur him on.

I always used to think of myself as an extrovert, but when i was taught this i realised i wasn't at all - measuring how popular you think you are and how you interact with varying groups of friends and aquaintances is a really inaccurate way to define yourself (especially as everyone has close friends and a wider circle of aquaintances, colleagues and indirect friends, and how quickly you make new friends or how confident you are leading a group or talking in front of a crowd doesn't really reflect your character as much as your personality, confidence and situational needs). I like these alternative definitions!

[Coidzor]

Introvert doesn't mean "dislikes other people". It doesn't necessarily mean "socially inept" or even "shy". It means that social gatherings take a lot out of you and you gain energy from being inside yourself. Introverts still have friends, enjoy going out and having relationships. They just need to refuel with some silence.
It also is not-uncommonly paired with shyness and anxiety in situations in which much is expected of the introvert.

Blue text aside, I don't really see how that would do anything besides give someone a nudge towards being self-oriented and self-reliant, since being around others, even lovers, is inherently draining.

[Mauve Shirt]

All I know is, I prefer to be alone when the alternative is in a noisy room filled with people I don't know, because such situations are stressful. Maybe I'm a secret extrovert though, as my stress comes almost entirely from a desire to not be disliked or considered "weird" or whatever.
My angst over others' perception of me and my inability to make decisions have gotten me called "needy" which is why I mentioned my introverted nature in the first place.

[Spanish_Paladin]

I am introverted also. And for guys is worse, because we are supossed to take the first step.

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

Women, however, should feel free to be wholly subservient in relationships as per the longstanding societal tradition? Seriously, though, what is up with how super-duper-duper gendered the OP is?

White Knighting is a very confusing subject. It could mean anything from working against the endemic sexism of gamer culture to trying to get into women's pants by being nice to them.

Or totally banging Gwen behind A-dog's back.

[OverdrivePrime]

All I know is, I prefer to be alone when the alternative is in a noisy room filled with people I don't know, because such situations are stressful. Maybe I'm a secret extrovert though, as my stress comes almost entirely from a desire to not be disliked or considered "weird" or whatever.
My angst over others' perception of me and my inability to make decisions have gotten me called "needy" which is why I mentioned my introverted nature in the first place.

Most people I know have gone through at least some anxiety over whether or not other people like them or think they're weird. It makes you normal. If your anxiety is serious enough to keep you from living the life you want, would you consider seeing a counselor? Counseling has been instrumental in helping me shape myself into the man I want to be. I recommend looking into it if you feel that a part of you is holding yourself back from a fulfilling life. And many workplace insurance plans will at least partially cover mental health services.

I am introverted also. And for guys is worse, because we are supossed to take the first step.

You're roguishly handsome and have a cool sword and leather jacket. Just swagger around town and I'm sure the ladies will throw themselves at you.

[Spanish_Paladin]

Spanish ladies can be difficult to conquest, and i am not so optmistic about myself. But thanks, you are very nice

[Crow]

Women, however, should feel free to be wholly subservient in relationships as per the longstanding societal tradition? Seriously, though, what is up with how super-duper-duper gendered the OP is?

Who the hell said anything about that? Did you even read the OP?

To everyone else: Great discussion. Even though I am not piping in, I am following along. As I expected, some people are getting it, while others are not. I chalk that up to my poor writing and inability to put to text the things that go through my head in a clear manner. So sorry about that! Some simply disagree, and that's fine.

There's nothing wrong with introverted women, or those who actually do need a little help with things. We all do from time to time. No hostility is going your way. The hostility is directed towards the boys. In fact, if you're reading this post, chances are you are not the type of woman this topic is discussing.

[The Succubus]

There's nothing wrong with introverted women, or those who actually do need a little help with things. We all do from time to time. No hostility is going your way. The hostility is directed towards the boys. In fact, if you're reading this post, chances are you are not the type of woman this topic is discussing.

Not very open minded, are you? Just because a behaviour is rarer in another gender, it can be disregarded entirely?

Women are just as capable as engaging in White Knight behaviour.

[Crow]

Not very open minded, are you? Just because a behaviour is rarer in another gender, it can be disregarded entirely?

Women are just as capable as engaging in White Knight behaviour.

Holy crap it was a joke. Yes, it can go both ways. I am not saying that female white knights can be disregarded. I wouldn't even go as far as to say that it is rarer in any one gender than the other.

But as a male with a lifetime of experience being male, I was directing my OP to other males, as per the title. I don't feel confident taking a stab at addressing cases of feminine white knighting.

It seems like there are a few people here who disagree with me, and that is fine. But accusing me of sexism isn't fair, and assumes that I targeted my post towards all men, and within it was discussing all women.

[Slipperychicken]

I find that for every possible approach to dealing with women, someone will denounce it as sexist, demeaning, boring, patronizing, ineffective, or otherwise morally wrong. I am thus tempted to conclude that there is no right answer, only an abundance of wrong ones.

[JustSomeGuy]

Guys, you should know that interacting with women at all is morally wrong, because cooties.

[The Succubus]

Guys, you should know that interacting with women at all is morally wrong, because cooties.

Finally! Someone that speaks sense here!

[Mauve Shirt]

Guys, you should know that interacting with women at all is morally wrong, because cooties.

[Ulysses WkAmil]

Ah, gender wars in the playground. It's like a real playground, but we're older.

[Eldan]

Personally, I advocate uploading every adult into a personalized virtual paradise and creating new humans by randomized in-vitro fertilization followed by growing in vats.

It solves so many relationship problems.

[Frozen_Feet]

"Stop being a doormat" would be a better title.

This. So much this. People really should stop using confusing euphenisms for passive-aggressive doormats, and instead call them just that.

[noparlpf]

Guys, you should know that interacting with women at all is morally wrong, because cooties.

Yeah, makes sense to me.

[Coidzor]

Guys, you should know that interacting with women at all is morally wrong, because cooties.

Yeah, pretty much.

[Mono Vertigo]

Yeah, it is scientifically proven we have cooties.

[Spanish_Paladin]

Ha ha... girls have cooties

[Hazyshade]

Hmm.

A man starts a thread in a public forum, loudly and Socratically berating members of his own gender for their jerkish treatment of women, and letting them know what women are really looking for in a man. And letting any women who may be reading know what they ought to be looking for in a man, and hoping they'll applaud him for saving them from the sea of jerks with his reasoned, self-effacing performance.

Does that sound a bit White Knight-ish to anyone else?

[Meeki]

That sounds more like Neon Mauve Knight behavior.

[The Succubus]

Hmm.

A man starts a thread in a public forum, loudly and Socratically berating members of his own gender for their jerkish treatment of women, and letting them know what women are really looking for in a man. And letting any women who may be reading know what they ought to be looking for in a man, and hoping they'll applaud him for saving them from the sea of jerks with his reasoned, self-effacing performance.

Does that sound a bit White Knight-ish to anyone else?

I laughed. A lot.

[Coidzor]

I laughed. A lot.

Second.

That sounds more like Neon Mauve Knight behavior.

Nah, Mauve's just made of win when she's knighting it up.

[Meeki]

Second.



Nah, Mauve's just made of win when she's knighting it up.

Lol, I did not realize someone used the name Mauve.

Ok, Neon Chartreuse? That is kind of a sickly color.

[Just_Ice]

Basically if a relationship exhibits the same characteristics as a harmful drug addiction for an extended period of time then it needs to stop. There are other reasons to terminate relationships, but I don't think it's easy to disagree with that one.

Also taupe is clearly the best colour and taupe knights are what women want

[JustSomeGuy]

I vote for romantic moonlit knights by the shore

[The Succubus]

"One of these knights...one of these crazy lonely knights..."

Man, The Eagles knew all about relationship stuff.