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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Murder! Merfolk Murder!

    Sadly, one of the most overlooked aspects of adventuring terrain is the underwater section. And for good reason; underwater adventures are hard to run, low level adventurers don't have the resources for it, and underwater is really, really scary! Still, it's a potentially untapped source of adventure. This topic is for brainstorming and sharing adventures you've used for amphibious settings.

    The biggest problem of underwater adventures is the water itself. I've thought about using a form of magical seaweed that, when consumed, gives limited water breathing (1 hour per dose) but it's toxic (save vs. poison that acumulates with each dose or you're sickened for the duration). The weed is plentiful making it cheap but that leads to opportunists trying to hold down a monopoly on its cultivation and because the weed only grows in specific spots there are wars over farming it.

    Another problem with water is pressure. The weed protects you from debilitating effects up to 500'. Any deeper and you need an armored suit (similar to the clunky suits of the early 20th century). I also thought about introducing a Jules Verne style submarine although that would get really expensive.

    All of this culminates into my idea that merfolk are destructive, warmongers. While they're limited to what they can do on land, they can cause some pretty heavy destruction to cities with freshwater canals and coastal towns. They scuttle small boats, kidnap sailors, and overdose them on the magic seaweed to become their slaves. The slaves have no choice but to support the merfolk because they won't get the weed if they don't.

    Imagine an army of merfolk with armored shark cavalry, giant squids tearing up boats, scrags and merrows launching artillery, and their clerics controlling water to flood city streets. I really want to turn merfolk away from the neutral guardians of the sea to massive jerks that simply can't be touched because their greatest defense is their terrain.

    Anyone else want to share underwater ideas/stories?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Murder! Merfolk Murder!

    Undead don't need to breath. That is all.
    Credit for my various avatars goes to Dashwood,Cealocanth,Kwarkpudding,Randomizer,kpengu in,Alarra,Bisected8,zimmerwald1915, and Thanqol.

    Once known as "Gamerkid".

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Murder! Merfolk Murder!

    Quote Originally Posted by gamerkid View Post
    Undead don't need to breath. That is all.
    They also take to the water as gracefully as a lead stone.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Murder! Merfolk Murder!

    Quote Originally Posted by jmbrown View Post
    They also take to the water as gracefully as a lead stone.
    Then explain how my undead lich could build an underwater kingdom.

    The answer?

    A WIZARD DID IT,LITERALLY IN THIS CASE.
    Credit for my various avatars goes to Dashwood,Cealocanth,Kwarkpudding,Randomizer,kpengu in,Alarra,Bisected8,zimmerwald1915, and Thanqol.

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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Murder! Merfolk Murder!

    A bit back I had an idea for a pearl (for IDing) monopoly.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Murder! Merfolk Murder!

    Quote Originally Posted by jmbrown View Post
    They also take to the water as gracefully as a lead stone.
    Whale skeletons. Zombie sharks.

    Now I really want to draw up a merfolk necromancer.
    Yotsubatar by Dr. Bath

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Murder! Merfolk Murder!

    I can get over the breathing problem — there are magic items and spells that take care of that. Pressure is also a problem, especially since I know next to nothing about diving. But I could handwave that as well, through the use of magic and submersibles.

    My big problem is fighting.

    One of my favourite Fighting Fantasy book "Demons of the Deeps" dealt with an underwater adventure; a guy gets dumped overboard by pirates, but luckily in the one spot of the ocean where an enchantment magically grants him gills, fins and everything else he needs to live underwater. He has a day or so to figure out how to take vengeance on the pirates. It was all pretty cool … except his only weapon was a sword.

    How the hell do you swing a sword underwater? Or fire a bow? Or hell, swing your fists? What about spells?

    Sure, you could have fights between underwater craft, but how does the whole party contribute to those kind of fights?
    Last edited by FoE; 2009-12-15 at 06:16 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Murder! Merfolk Murder!

    It is entirely unnecessary to do that to merfolk. Why? Sahuagin exist in greater numbers and are even more angry, and some of them look like perfectly harmless elves... Kuo-toa also exist and worship things that make gods like Hextor look like amateur hour.

    I hear merfolk flesh, though, can make you immortal if you eat it...

  9. - Top - End - #9
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    Default Re: Murder! Merfolk Murder!

    you do it like conan. you grapple and cut em up like a fish. thats how!
    ...or like lara croft and just punch them on the nose..... yeah.....she fails.
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  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Murder! Merfolk Murder!

    Quote Originally Posted by Catch View Post
    Whale skeletons. Zombie sharks.

    Now I really want to draw up a merfolk necromancer.
    Even though it has a swim speed, they have no skills. They get an automatic +8 for swim speed to avoid hazards but a shark zombie would have a rough time (probably fail about 70% of its rolls) in stormy water or in any unfavorable conditions. The skeleton whales have strength to spare but even they have about a 30-40% chance to flop around in stormy waters.

    Still, the idea of undead fish shock troops is an awesome thought. I'm going to have to steal the idea of merfolk necromancers.

    How the hell do you swing a sword underwater? Or for that matter, fire off spells?
    You use a piercing weapon which is why slashing and blunt weapons take a penalty (although a relatively low penalty which is something I never cared for).

    As for spells, yeah that's a problem. Merfolk in fantasy are capable of speaking clearly while underwater. I guess it's a stipulation of having lungs and gills at the same time. I'd just rule that a person who can breath underwater can also speak clearly.

  11. - Top - End - #11

    Default Re: Murder! Merfolk Murder!

    They can still take 10. I don't feel bad about having a zombie shark not be able to swim in a hurricane.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Murder! Merfolk Murder!

    Quote Originally Posted by sofawall View Post
    They can still take 10. I don't feel bad about having a zombie shark not be able to swim in a hurricane.
    Which will get a shark by in rough waters (10 + 5) but toss in any circumstancial modifiers like a net or spell that reduces skill checks and you've got them flopping around 80% of the time.

    Now skeleton whales... yeah. The very idea of taking a docile animal and turning it into a vicious killing machine reaks of Rule of Cool. A skeletal sperm whale is a veritable battering ram and slaughter machine.

    Edit: Oh, yeah. dr/5 bludgeoning. Not going to see too many warhammers underwater
    Last edited by jmbrown; 2009-12-15 at 06:40 PM.

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    Default Re: Murder! Merfolk Murder!

    In the event that stormy conditions occur (which would be up to you anyway, as the DM) it seems reasonable. I imagine undead aquatic creatures would be as clumsy as terrestrial ones, so if the party's wily enough to start an encounter with Control Weather, Whirlpool or any of the fancy Stormwrack spells, they've probably earned the opportunity. Kinda like battlefield control, but at sea.
    Yotsubatar by Dr. Bath

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Murder! Merfolk Murder!

    Also, why merfolk? I myself had Sahuagin as the servants of the lich-ruler of the seas. They look much cooler.
    Credit for my various avatars goes to Dashwood,Cealocanth,Kwarkpudding,Randomizer,kpengu in,Alarra,Bisected8,zimmerwald1915, and Thanqol.

    Once known as "Gamerkid".

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Murder! Merfolk Murder!

    I agree with the others that have suggested using a different race, like the Sahuagin. Or even better: the dreaded Saltwater Aboleth.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Murder! Merfolk Murder!

    Quote Originally Posted by gamerkid View Post
    Also, why merfolk? I myself had Sahuagin as the servants of the lich-ruler of the seas. They look much cooler.
    Sahuagin aren't as stable as merfolk. To me they're basically goblins of the sea. Faster, stronger, and far deadlier goblins but like goblinoids they're savage, disorganized, and kill each other as much as they kill their enemies.

    Sahuagin might make good servants to an overlord but they're absolutely useless as a world power. Merfolk are neutral, keep to themselves, and have centuries of isolation to consolidate power. I don't plan on making them cruel but I definitely have plans on making them a world power.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Murder! Merfolk Murder!

    Quote Originally Posted by jmbrown View Post
    You use a piercing weapon which is why slashing and blunt weapons take a penalty (although a relatively low penalty which is something I never cared for).
    Sure, and that's why tridents and spears are popular for underwater folk. But what if you're an axe-wielding barbarian who's been going on dryland adventures most of his life? Hence the reason why underwater adventures are none too popular.

    WotC certainly thinks so: outside of sahaugin, water archons, aboleths and one shark, there are virtually no aquatic monsters in the 4E MM and MM2.
    Last edited by FoE; 2009-12-15 at 07:08 PM.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Murder! Merfolk Murder!

    OH NO

    THE SAUHAGHIN HAVE FOUND ME

    DDO reference aside, I like them as villains. Particularly since they have a 4-armed mutant version. I was thinking I'd have a 4-armed fishman bard/dirgesinger with a 2-face vibe, playing demoralizing and inspiring music at the same time.
    Last edited by shadow_archmagi; 2009-12-15 at 07:19 PM.
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  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Murder! Merfolk Murder!

    don't be disheartened by all the nay Sayers telling you to switch to some other water race. I think the merfolk is a great idea you might also play up the fact that they want to conquer more but are limited by their biology.

    Also im looking at the hypertext srd i don't think sharks have any ranks in swim i think they just use that +8 bonus and their str

    by my math all the sharks points have been sunk into listen and spot and a 3 hd shark couldn't have 8 ranks of swim any way so they must be including the +8 from having a swim speed.
    Last edited by awa; 2009-12-15 at 07:23 PM.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Murder! Merfolk Murder!

    Quote Originally Posted by Face Of Evil View Post
    Sure, and that's why tridents and spears are popular for underwater folk. But what if you're an axe-wielding barbarian who's been going on dryland adventures most of his life? Hence the reason why underwater adventures are none too popular.

    WotC certainly thinks so: outside of sahaugin, water archons, aboleths and one shark, there are virtually no aquatic monsters in the 4E MM and MM2.
    You've also got chuul, one of my favorite aberrations to use as guard dogs.

    But 4E would probably be easier to rule underwater combat than 3E and it's a shame Wizards just ignores it. TSR filled the monstrous compendiums with underwater... abominations like the sea lion, squark (squid/shark), sea bear and sea rhinoceros (drawn the sound of a sea bear attack). Eberron was supposed to have a vast kuo-toa civilization that apparently never got off the ground.
    Last edited by jmbrown; 2009-12-15 at 07:43 PM.

  21. - Top - End - #21
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    Volkov's Avatar

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    Default Re: Murder! Merfolk Murder!

    Quote Originally Posted by Face Of Evil View Post
    I can get over the breathing problem — there are magic items and spells that take care of that. Pressure is also a problem, especially since I know next to nothing about diving. But I could handwave that as well, through the use of magic and submersibles.

    My big problem is fighting.

    One of my favourite Fighting Fantasy book "Demons of the Deeps" dealt with an underwater adventure; a guy gets dumped overboard by pirates, but luckily in the one spot of the ocean where an enchantment magically grants him gills, fins and everything else he needs to live underwater. He has a day or so to figure out how to take vengeance on the pirates. It was all pretty cool … except his only weapon was a sword.

    How the hell do you swing a sword underwater? Or fire a bow? Or hell, swing your fists? What about spells?

    Sure, you could have fights between underwater craft, but how does the whole party contribute to those kind of fights?
    Even with magic, rising too quickly in the water will screw you over with the bends. If you breathe with lungs, you will need to ascend slowly, or be wracked with incredibly painful convulsions and possibly die.
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  22. - Top - End - #22
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Murder! Merfolk Murder!

    Quote Originally Posted by Volkov View Post
    Even with magic, rising too quickly in the water will screw you over with the bends. If you breathe with lungs, you will need to ascend slowly, or be wracked with incredibly painful convulsions and possibly die.
    We'll just rule in that magic can prevent the nasty side effects of depressurization while still allowing you to function normally.

    Blame it on them wizards.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Murder! Merfolk Murder!

    Quote Originally Posted by jmbrown View Post
    TSR filled the monstrous compendiums with underwater abominations like the sea lion, squark (squid/shark), sea bear and sea rhinoceros (drawn the sound of a sea bear attack).
    OK, it took me a minute to realize you were joking.

    @V: MAAAAAAAAAAAAGIIIIIC!
    Last edited by FoE; 2009-12-15 at 07:54 PM.

  24. - Top - End - #24
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    Default Re: Murder! Merfolk Murder!

    Quote Originally Posted by jmbrown View Post
    We'll just rule in that magic can prevent the nasty side effects of depressurization while still allowing you to function normally.

    Blame it on them wizards.
    Hopefully the gas your breathing isn't pure oxygen, which will rapidly kill you at high pressures. Oxygen+Helium=Good. Pure oxygen=Bad and gets worse at higher pressures. Oxygen+Nitrogen=Very bad. Pure Nitrogen=Wait, your supposed to be dead already from inhaling this stuff.
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  25. - Top - End - #25
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    Default Re: Murder! Merfolk Murder!

    Quote Originally Posted by Face Of Evil View Post
    OK, it took me a minute to realize you were joking.

    @V: MAAAAAAAAAAAAGIIIIIC!
    No, there really are some WTF-inducing underwater monsters from the TSR days that will make you scratch your head and ask the question "Who thought this would be cool?"

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Murder! Merfolk Murder!

    I know. I own those books. I thought you meant the sea lion and the squark were good monsters.

    Even as a wee lad watching my older brothers play D&D, I thought the sea lion was kind of stupid, in a "Star Trek V" kind of way.
    Last edited by FoE; 2009-12-15 at 08:13 PM.

  27. - Top - End - #27
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    Default Re: Murder! Merfolk Murder!


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    Default Re: Murder! Merfolk Murder!

    Quote Originally Posted by Volkov View Post
    Hopefully the gas your breathing isn't pure oxygen, which will rapidly kill you at high pressures. Oxygen+Helium=Good. Pure oxygen=Bad and gets worse at higher pressures. Oxygen+Nitrogen=Very bad. Pure Nitrogen=Wait, your supposed to be dead already from inhaling this stuff.
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    Default Re: Murder! Merfolk Murder!

    Quote Originally Posted by Face Of Evil View Post
    I know. I own those books. I thought you meant the sea lion and the squark were good monsters.

    Even as a wee lad watching my older brothers play D&D, I thought the sea lion was kind of stupid, in a "Star Trek V" kind of way.
    Whats wrong with sea lions?
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    Default Re: Murder! Merfolk Murder!

    Quote Originally Posted by Face Of Evil View Post
    I know. I own those books. I thought you meant the sea lion and the squark were good monsters.

    Even as a wee lad watching my older brothers play D&D, I thought the sea lion was kind of stupid, in a "Star Trek V" kind of way.
    I direct you to the...Drum roll please!!! SEA SMILODON TIGER!
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