ITP- Battle for Alarra

[Lex-Kat]

Here's all the scries, in case anyone is interested.

Spoiler

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{table=head]Day\Player|Haruki-Kun (Journalist)|Imperial Psycho (Indurain)|Seer or Fool?|Korias (Atreyu)|Blue Ghost (Murska)|Gray Mage (Shadow)
Day 01|Ramsus Interference|Murska (Playgrounder)|Fool/Seer||Lady Tialait (Playgrounder)|Ramsus Interference
Day 02|Imperial Psycho (Indurain)|Alarra Interference|Fool/Seer|Alarra Interference|Murska (Professor)|Helgraf (Playgrounder)
Day 03|cd4 (Playgrounder)|Atreyu Interference|Seer/Fool|Atreyu Interference|Atreyu Interference|Lady Tialait (Playgrounder)
Day 04|Ramsus Interference|VOIDED|Seer/Fool|Atreyu (Journalist)|Lord Fullbladder (Playgrounder)|Ramsus Interference
Day 05|Lord Fullbladder (Playgrounder)|VOIDED|Fool/Seer||DEAD|Matt K (Doctor)
Day 06|Tasroth (Playgrounder)||Fool/Seer|||Zanshin (Parent)
Day 07|Ramsus (Zeb the Troll|DEAD|Seer/Fool|DEAD||DEAD
Day 08|Mangosta71 (Roland)||Seer/Fool|||
Day 09|Otakuryoga (Supagoof)||Fool/Seer|||
Day 10|Atreyu (Playgrounder)||Fool/Seer|||
[/table]

The first four days were particularly funny, I think.

[Fleeing Coward]

I think the difference in our viewpoints come from the fact you consider murska's LIE to be equivalent to Lex's MISTAKE just because he used her as part of it. This is not the case. When les made a mistake she dealt with it. When murska tells a lie that's for everyone to spot - regardless of what the lie is.

No I don't consider Murska's lie and the subsequent treatment of it equivalent to Lex's mistake with Gray Mage. I consider Murska's lie to be WORSE than Lex's mistake with Gray Mage.
Lex's mistake Gray Mage has a lot of ifs and I concede is just a matter of opinion which is why I'm not arguing too much on that point.

Murska's "extra layer" as you call it on the other hand directly brought the narrator into the game so it is completely different from a standard false role claim. He should not have been allowed to get away with it. That has been my whole argument this entire time.

[Qwaz]

Murska's "extra layer" as you call it on the other hand directly brought the narrator into the game so it is completely different from a standard false role claim.

So what? He just told a slightly less believable lie.

He should not have been allowed to get away with it.

You're right. The villager should have lynched him for it.

We don't believe anything anyone says without proof.

Here Lex was even asked flat out if an error had been made and didn't admit to it. That is as close to a denial as is fair to make. Denying it would be denying Murska's lie not denying any mistake so directly affecting a lynch.

Go re-read EK's death narration day 10. That is as close as Lex could fairly have gotten to saying "What the hell is wrong with you all - lynch that lying green eyeball over there." Seriously. You can't say it was subtle. You can't say she was deliberatly hiding Murksa's wolfiness. All she did was refuse to confirm/Deny a role-claim.

The fact the role-claim invoked narrator error had nothing to do with it. Had she made one it would have been admitted to. End of.

[Fleeing Coward]

We don't believe anything anyone says without proof.

Here Lex was even asked flat out if an error had been made and didn't admit to it. That is as close to a denial as is fair to make. Denying it would be denying Murska's lie not denying any mistake so directly affecting a lynch.

Go re-read EK's death narration day 10. That is as close as Lex could fairly have gotten to saying "What the hell is wrong with you all - lynch that lying green eyeball over there." Seriously. You can't say it was subtle. You can't say she was deliberatly hiding Murksa's wolfiness. All she did was refuse to confirm/Deny a role-claim.

The fact the role-claim invoked narrator error had nothing to do with it. Had she made one it would have been admitted to. End of.

You want narrators to be neutral yet you see absolutely nothing wrong with directly involving a narrator with a lie?
Narrators shouldn't be involved in the game so when a player directly puts a narrator into the game with a lie like that they've crossed the line and are forcing the narrators to make a decision.
How can you push for narrators to be neutral yet at the same also be supporting someone whose very actions forces the narrator to make a decision they shouldn't need to consider in the first place?

Inaction from not confirming something is true may be close to a denial but it is nonetheless not a flat out denial.
If you have to confirm something if it's true, it makes no sense to me why you shouldn't flat out deny it when it's false especially after a player has directly asked you to verify the truthfulness of such a statement.

[Lex-Kat]

Hey!! I thought that was one of my best narrations.

And now I have to apologize to Murska. That was my attempt at getting you lynched. Sorry.

[Qwaz]

Day/Night 5

Spoiler

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================================================== ==============================
From : Murska
To : Alarra, Haruki-kun, Matt K, Qwaz, Zanshin
Date : 2011-01-26 11:13
Title : Re: Scry
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No messages from IP in a while.

Well we hit the gold mine tonight my Real Life friends.

The Firey Tower is Alarra.

If our win condition is meerly to kill Alarra we can win this tonight.

Or is it the classic get villagers equal to wolves? If so I suggest we leave Alarra sitting pretty cos her role is only a

toughened role, we know that now and it's not much of a threat

Suggest for night 5

Night kill Ramsus
Scry Tasroth
Void IP (If he's looking our way...Murska?)
disguise...etc

Placeholder scry at Ramsus again, please.

Scry Interference.

Kill Ramsus, guys. He must be a power role if he's this protected.

================================================== ==============================
From : Haruki-kun
To : Qwaz
Date : 2011-01-26 15:07
Title : Re: Scry
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wait, how do you know The Fiery Tower is Alarra? Where'd you get that scry?

================================================== ==============================
From : Murska
To : Qwaz
Date : 2011-01-26 17:16
Title : Re: Scry
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If he does start gathering names, I'm going in as his 'contact to one of the Seers' (by the way, they switch between Seer

and Fool randomly so if we take IP out, then there's no telling which one the other'll be.)

Ramsus might be the Baner, or he might not. I suppose it's worth a check, but I've seen people just hit interference

multiple times on the same person because they thought the other scrier would switch targets.

.......

OH! Sorry, I... haven't checked the thread yet.

OK, then. TFT is going to start gathering names for the next 48 hours. He needs to die right then and there. The problem

is that he's sure to be baned.

My suggestion: We need to get rid of the Baner. In hopes that it's Ramsus, let's kill him. If we kill IP and he's the

Seer, then the baner has no one else left to protect but TFT.

If TFT does start gathering names, one of us should try to infiltrate them. I'm willing to do it myself, but am somewhat

scared of getting killed, since I'm the Devil... Of course, we could keep me disguised.....

Thoughts?

================================================== ==============================
From : Qwaz
To : Alarra, Haruki-kun, Matt K, Murska, Zanshin
Date : 2011-01-26 19:22
Title : Re: Scry
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I take that back. TFT won't of even had that. DS7 was a shield and Blue ghost was protecting DS7 so the infomation so the

info may never have gotten from blue ghost to TFT.

I see no evidence of this happening yet. TFT will still not know who to trust so we can infiltrate the network

if we have to. He'll of had 3 scries from DS7 at most.

Also if he tries anything in thread people won't have any proof of who he is.

Let's keep an eye on the situation and see how it progresses.

Any word on our Win condition?

.......

OH! Sorry, I... haven't checked the thread yet.

OK, then. TFT is going to start gathering names for the next 48 hours. He needs to die right then and there. The problem

is that he's sure to be baned.

My suggestion: We need to get rid of the Baner. In hopes that it's Ramsus, let's kill him. If we kill IP and he's the

Seer, then the baner has no one else left to protect but TFT.

If TFT does start gathering names, one of us should try to infiltrate them. I'm willing to do it myself, but am somewhat

scared of getting killed, since I'm the Devil... Of course, we could keep me disguised.....

Thoughts?

================================================== ==============================
From : Murska
To : Lex-kat, Qwaz
Date : 2011-01-28 18:19
Title : BfA Action
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sending in a kill at The Fiery Tower.

================================================== ==============================
From : Qwaz
To : Alarra, Matt K, Murska
Date : 2011-01-29 01:47
Title : Re: BfA Action
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sending in a kill at The Fiery Tower.

Any word on IP murska or should we void him again?

================================================== ==============================
From : Qwaz
To : Alarra, Lex-kat, Matt K, Murska, Supagoof
Date : 2011-01-29 07:21
Title : Re: Russian Roulette
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK, so... who gets the bullet tonight? Ramsus, TheFieryTower or Imperial Psycho?

And who should I scry?

I really have no idea and as I'm not feeling all the great, if anyone wants to send in my action for me that would be

great.

Matt K voids Imperial Psycho tonight.

================================================== ==============================
From : Haruki-kun
To : Qwaz
Date : 2011-01-29 07:21
Title : Re: Russian Roulette
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK, so... who gets the bullet tonight? Ramsus, TheFieryTower

or Imperial Psycho?

And who should I scry?

I'd like tasroth scried. I have an incling he's got a power role.

I sent in a scry at Fullbladder. Should I switch?

No need. I have no proof. We'll scry him another night

'k, then. Scry at Fulbladder stays.

Day/Night 6

Spoiler

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================================================== ==============================
From : Qwaz
To : Alarra, Matt K, Murska
Date : 2011-01-30 06:41
Title : Re: Day Lynch
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Any mention of being voided for the past two nights will make Imperial Psycho pipe up that he aint in contact and that'll

throw suspicion murska's way. Maybe try to claim Baner (and claim the accusing seer to be a devil?) or another role that

we're looking for. Might make them fess up and reveal themselves.

If you can suggest another target you're suspicious of with decent reasons that'll help.

We'll have to think about killing IP if Matt goes today though.

I agree about Ramsus. His sentance structure's usually fine and for such a simple sentance he was clearly over thinking

"How do i sound dis-interested"

PS - at work without list of wolves so can you forward to the rest please? Think it's Zanshin & Haruki-kun but don't want

to chance anything.

Well, that sucks. I'm not going to clam seer but I may claim to be in contact with Seer and that he's been

telling me that he's been voided for the past few nights so Lady T must be a proxy for the Shadow (as she was scried a

while ago as a Villager).

How does that sound?

I have no idea how else to try and get around this (unless I claim seer).

I guess if Lady T is correct than Ramsus must be the Shadow then.

================================================== ==============================
From : Haruki-kun
To : Qwaz
Date : 2011-01-31 01:03
Title : FW: I scry with my little eyes...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd like a plate of Fullbladder's identity tonight, please? Kthx.

Fullbladder is a Playgrounder.

================================================== ==============================
From : Qwaz
To : Alarra, Haruki-kun, Matt K, Murska, Zanshin
Date : 2011-01-31 02:10
Title : Battle for Alarra...'s corpse?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*shrug*

Matt K I guess

PLEASE let's scry Tasroth tonight. This is exactly the "under the radar" shtick he used in Classic 12 where he was the

seer. He's been acting this way for days now. If he doesn't have a power role I'll eat my hat.

================================================== ==============================
From : Qwaz
To : Alarra, Haruki-kun, Matt K, Murska, Zanshin
Date : 2011-01-31 03:11
Title : Re: Battle for Alarra...'s corpse?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK, I'll scry him. In the meantime, who do we kill?

It's possible that Lady Tialait will be baned.

So who are the possible targets...

Lady T - Maybe Seer but I don't see why A seer would come out and publicly claim.
Ramsus - Someone noted (Zanshin?) that he'd been quick to follow Lady T and she may be his proxy?
Imperial Psycho - Gonna be a major liability soon.
Fleeing Coward - All up in Murska's grill.

Maybe it's best to use the scry elsewhere? That is definetly how Tasroth plays when he's trying to keep a low profile

though.

I'd vote to Scry Tasroth and Kill Imperial Psycho.

With the way Fleeing coward is hounding Murska, IP is the less likely to be baned and when He's revealed as a Seer/Fool

it'll add credability to Murska...hopefully.

Also we know for sure that IP is a seer/fool so we know we're definetly getting one out the way. Gives us time to see what

other clues people drop. I'd rather kill the seer than a proxy

================================================== ==============================
From : Matt K
To : Alarra, Haruki-kun, Murska, Qwaz, Zanshin
Date : 2011-01-31 17:29
Title : Re: Battle for Alarra...'s corpse?
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And that's that. At least a lot of good information was revealed during my lynch vote. Also it's been fun.

Well, looks like it's time to target the baners. Both are vulnerable since the lesser banner will die if his charge is

targeted so we're garenteed one if we find either banner.

I'd suggets disguising Musrka since Lady T will most likely scry him next (considering everything going on in the thread).



If you guys can keep IP from turning on us, then I'd suggest killing Ramsus and scry Tasroth (or vice versa).

================================================== ==============================
From : Qwaz
To : Alarra, Haruki-kun, Murska, Zanshin
Date : 2011-02-01 05:45
Title : Re: Battle for Alarra...'s corpse?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have we come to some agreement? Have the Actions been sent in?

I'm thinking Kill Ramsus
Scry Tasroth
Disguise Alarra as villager as usual (Murska has probably already been scried)

Reasons. Ramsus maybe baner...hopefully not baned anyway.
Tasroth is suspicious and I don't want to waste a scry on Lady T. She either is the seer and we'll kill her once the

baner's gone or she's a proxy and we'll get to her in due course.

Whoever does send the actions in please copy me in otherwise I'm liable to send something in myself to make sure it's been

done. I fret over wasted actions

Alright, I suggest: Kill Ramsus. Worst case scenario he's a playgrounder, best case scenario he's the

baner and in contact with Tialait, and then they're both as good as dead.

Tialait IS likely to be the seer. I know her a fair bit... she's quite reckless when it comes to these things. Besides,

seer claiming is better than baner claiming. If she's in contact with the baner, then she's safe as long as the baner is.

So yeah, Kill Ramsus, he may be the baner, or the Seer.

Our scry will have to go elsewhere. Maybe at Tialait to be sure.

Also: when Matt K is lynched, IP will realize he's probably the Fool, so we're safe from his scries. But we lose his trust

because he realizes Murska is not necessarily with him. So kill him... later.

================================================== ==============================
From : Qwaz
To : Haruki-kun
Date : 2011-02-01 05:48
Title : Re: Battle for Alarra...'s corpse?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ta

Right. Sent scry at Tasroth.

================================================== ==============================
From : Murska
To : Lex-kat, Qwaz
Date : 2011-02-01 18:27
Title : BfA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kill Ramsus.

[Lex-Kat]

Also, I have two more questions:

Fleeing Coward, will anything anyone says make you concede your point of view?

Does anyone else think I was wrong in how I handled Murska's claim?

If not, then the discussion is over.

And Qwaz, carry on with the PMs. I love reading these.

[Helgraf]

Also, I have two more questions:

Fleeing Coward, will anything anyone says make you concede your point of view?

Does anyone else think I was wrong in how I handled Murska's claim?

If not, then the discussion is over.

Well, I was going to keep quiet, but since you issued an ultimatum?

Yeah, I do. I do think that was handled badly.

By the same token; I can't say whether or not it would have changed the end of the game; there's too many variables involved between the point where it occured and the end of the game to definitively say it would or would not have. But it definitely changes how the game was played out.

Tangental but related rant: Unlike some WW players, I've never bought into the "abusing systemic or unforseen loopholes is not only a valid playstyle, but a preferable one" point of view. I resented it in Pirates (the one with the cult), and in Hogwarts Havoc and I resent it here. I do not buy into the "well, the spirit of the rules meant A, but the letter says B, so let's do B and screw everyone who came to the table with a fair experience in mind". Clearly this means I will never be one of the WW greats - I'll never be a Murska or a Shadow or a Supagoof.

[Qwaz]

You want narrators to be neutral yet you see absolutely nothing wrong with directly involving a narrator with a lie?

Yes. Exactly. We regularly pick apart lies told by players and it's never the narators job to confirm or deny a lie. The nature of the lie is irrelevent.

Narrators shouldn't be involved in the game so when a player directly puts a narrator into the game with a lie like that they've crossed the line and are forcing the narrators to make a decision.

Yes. one of three.

Confirm "Lie about error": Favours wolves
Deny "Lie about error": Favours Town
Do not respond: Favours town as is pretty much a denial since the narrator would admit to any error.

As I said before. Narrators must confirm their errors, not deny lies told about possible errors.

How can you push for narrators to be neutral yet at the same also be supporting someone whose very actions forces the narrator to make a decision they shouldn't need to consider in the first place?

How can you not see that Lex was being neutral the whole time?

Inaction from not confirming something is true may be close to a denial but it is nonetheless not a flat out denial.

You're right. That would be favouring town in this case.

If you have to confirm something if it's true, it makes no sense to me why you shouldn't flat out deny it when it's false especially after a player has directly asked you to verify the truthfulness of such a statement.

Really. It makes perfect sense to me. You have to confirm you have made a mistake. You do not have to say that what X player says is true or not.

Spoiler

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Think of it like this
If accused of a crime and i'm guilty the rule is I must admit to it.
(beyond that in this situation: If i realise i'm guilty on my own I must admit to it)

Just because I have to admit to being guilty if asked when I am, doesn't mean I have to profess that I'm innocent if asked wether I'm guilty and i'm not.

Just because a narrator must confirm an error doesn't mean they have to deny a lie told about an error. You think that one follows from the other when there is no reason they should. Murska dabbled in this, admittedly grey, area to survive and did. Kudos.

[Gray Mage]

Also, I have two more questions:

Fleeing Coward, will anything anyone says make you concede your point of view?

Does anyone else think I was wrong in how I handled Murska's claim?

If not, then the discussion is over.

And Qwaz, carry on with the PMs. I love reading these.

I'm not sure if you acted wrongly, but I do agree with FC that Murska was out of line. I'm fine with abusing rule loop-holes or things that the rules don't exactly cover and trying to strech existing rules, but I don't think the narrators should be involved. That's dragging the game into muddy territory.

[Qwaz]

And Qwaz, carry on with the PMs. I love reading these.

Will do but they're a ***** to work out. The txt file outputs are ordered by date but separated into in & outbox so compiling has taken a while. Most is out the way now though.

Next time I start a Quicktopic early

[Alarra]

Does anyone else think I was wrong in how I handled Murska's claim?

Yes. But only because the way that you handled it contradicted with how you responded previously. When flat out asked before you figured out your counting error if there had been a narrator mistake you said no. Thereby setting up a precedent where people could think that they could reliably ask you if there was a mistake and get a response either way, as you both admitted to a mistake when you made one, and said that you had not made a mistake when previously accused of one. You should not have done differently when asked about Murska's claimed mistake. Had you not previously denied a narrator error than I would have no problem with how you handled things, as I think it is perfectly reasonable to be expected to admit when a mistake was made, but respond neutrally to a false claim.

[Lex-Kat]

Thank you for your opinion. The ultimatum was so that we don't get into a big argument that winds up in someone getting baned from the playground. Or someone gets fed up with it, and decides WW is not worth playing here anymore.

I disagree with you and FC, of course. I do understand your disagreement with how it was handled, and respect that you disagree with me. But I still don't believe I handled it wrong.

We can't all be Murska/Shadow/whoever else you wish to include in your "Greats" comment. But I also disagree that you have to play this way to be great. The few games I saw Freshmeat in, I never saw him try these tactics. And I consider him to be one of the best. Scary even.

There are many I consider to be great players, and they all have different play-styles.

[Lex-Kat]

Yes. But only because the way that you handled it contradicted with how you responded previously. When flat out asked before you figured out your counting error if there had been a narrator mistake you said no. Thereby setting up a precedent where people could think that they could reliably ask you if there was a mistake and get a response either way, as you both admitted to a mistake when you made one, and said that you had not made a mistake when previously accused of one. You should not have done differently when asked about Murska's claimed mistake. Had you not previously denied a narrator error than I would have no problem with how you handled things, as I think it is perfectly reasonable to be expected to admit when a mistake was made, but respond neutrally to a false claim.

Now this one is good. And you are right, I did set a bad precedent when I answered the first accusation of making a mistake with a determined no.

My only defense to this is, when I said no then, it was to my making a mistake in counting. And I let the chips fall where they may. I felt that FC's accusal of you was a mistake on his part.

Saying no to Ramsus' question would have told everyone that Murska was guilty. His lynch would have been made by me, Not Ramsus, not FC. Me.

[Fleeing Coward]

This is just going to be my last post on this topic since it's just going to go in circles and it doesn't look like Qwaz and I will see eye to eye on this situation.

The basis of my argument is this:
1) Murska should not have brought the narrator into the situation with his lie like he did. Basically, make all the claims you want but if your claim requires the narrator to intervene under any circumstance at all you've gone too far.
2) Once Lex was brought into the situation, I believe it was his duty to deny it not just remain silent especially if a living player had specifically asked for him to confirm or deny the truthfulness of such a statement. I'll concede this is point is open for debate.

@Lex: the way I see it, Murska would had brought up his demise by himself with a lie like that. If you had said outright he's lying, you wouldn't be responsible for the situation since he was the one that brought you into this matter in the first place that gave you the option to deny it.

Anyways, this is the last you'll hear from me on this issue. I've only been responding to Qwaz's posts because he keeps responding to mine

[Haruki-kun]

@Lex: I can't really say whether you handled it right or wrong, because I can't think of how I would have handled it. You were pretty much stuck between a rock and a hard place.

[Qwaz]

Day/Night 7

Spoiler

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================================================== ==============================
From : Qwaz
To : Alarra, Haruki-kun, Murska, Zanshin
Date : 2011-02-02 08:53
Title : Battle for Alarra
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So...Ramus kill blocked. On the plus side there's a little bit more infomation in the narration than maybe there should

be.

If Zeb the Troll was protecting Ramsus it means Ramsus is either the Seer (maybe seer/fool or Shadow) or the Careless

baner.

If Lady T is to be believed She's the Seer so there's a third party, Zeb the troll, out there with them and IP really was

defenseless last night. How did the seer get in touch with 2 baners so quickly?!

Lady Tialait, when outing Matt, said "he's the voider" not "He's a wolf". Her scries (or at least the one's she's

claiming) aren't just correct, they're more detailed than the usual "Wolf/Villager"

Does that maybe mean she (or the person she's proxying for) are the other seer/defender ("their scrys are 100% accurate

but their goals are not") rather than the other seer/fool?

Anyone gotten in touch for networking Alarra?

Tasroth Scry turn up anything Haruki-kun?

================================================== ==============================
From : Alarra
To : Haruki-kun, Murska, Qwaz, Zanshin
Date : 2011-02-02 14:25
Title : Re: Battle for Alarra
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyone gotten in touch for networking Alarra?

Nope. Not heard one thing from anyone.


================================================== ==============================
From : Qwaz
To : Alarra, Haruki-kun, Murska, Zanshin
Date : 2011-02-02 19:14
Title : Re: I scry with my little eyes...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tasroth, please.

Playgrounder

Well damn. I guess he's just afraid of being noticed at all.

================================================== ==============================
From : Haruki-kun
To : Alarra, Murska, Qwaz, Zanshin
Date : 2011-02-02 22:48
Title : Re: Battle for Alarra
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

....why am I getting the feeling the game is slightly broken?

There's like three seers and baners, AND the narrator just told everyone exactly WHO was attacked last night, which is

pretty much a free perfect scry for the entire village.

Reporting unsuccesful attacks is pretty much normal. There is a glut of seers/baners but we do have voiders and

beasts...etc. So far we're doing ok.

I see several options:

Lady Tialait may or may not be the seer, she may or may not be the baner, same goes for Ramsus.

My thoughts: We're screwed. They have too many baners working with them. If they weren't in contact already, they'll be

contacting Ramsus now.

I'm all out of ideas.

================================================== ==============================
From : Haruki-kun
To : Alarra, Murska, Qwaz, Zanshin
Date : 2011-02-03 18:29
Title : Re: Gotcha!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gray Mage just pointed out before Lady Tialait had spoken that we didn't have a seer point

today. This means he's in their network.

I think he's a safe kill tonight. Let's take him out.

Think it was cos the Night ended, Lady T had made a post but no point and several hours had gone by. Don't think it means

he's in the network but he may be.

Sounded too much like an affirmation.

================================================== ==============================
From : Qwaz
To : Zanshin
Date : 2011-02-04 21:43
Title : Re: Gotcha!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gray Mage and Korias went into hiding. Gray Mage was Shadow (Seer/Defender).

Korias was Atreyu the Masked Llama (Seer/Fool). He was Auto-Lynched.

Well THAT was easy.

AND I was just outed in thread.

I have an idea to take Lady T out with me. It's risky. But it doesn't involve any of you, so only I'm at risk. And if I

die, I take one of them with me.

Just everyone make sure and not vote for Zanshin.

================================================== ==============================
From : Haruki-kun
To : Alarra, Murska, Qwaz, Zanshin
Date : 2011-02-05 04:18
Title : Re: Battle for Alarra night 7
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Well.... I think either me or Alarra should be disguised. LT knows me fairly well, so she's likely to want to find out who

I am. And of course, everyone's keeping an eye on Alarra.

I'll scry Ramsus, I guess. But Interference is still likely.

Oh, btw, on Gray Mage....

.....I called it.

Ok ladies and gents,

Who should we Scry/Kill tonight.

Murska...why don't you ask IP something like "Have you scried LT? Can we trust her?" With him being the only Good side

seer left we can use Alarra's disguise judicously if we know who he's looking at. Also avoid Interferance for Haruki.

How about...

Kill Szilard (Anyone not baned really)
Scry Ramsus
Get IP to scry Lady T (well anyone but Ramsus)
Disguise...I guess alarra as default unless IP is looking at one of us.

Fleeing coward will start something on Alarra again so I want to kill him quite badly. With the Zanshin outing - people

will be piling on his wagon tomorrow giving us another chance to kill FC tomorrow night.

Gray Mage and Korias went into hiding. Gray Mage was Shadow (Seer/Defender).

Korias was Atreyu the Masked Llama (Seer/Fool). He was Auto-Lynched.

Well THAT was easy.

AND I was just outed in thread.

I have an idea to take Lady T out with me. It's risky. But it doesn't involve any of you, so only I'm at risk. And if I

die, I take one of them with me.

Day/Night 8

Spoiler

Show

================================================== ==============================
From : Murska
To : Imperial Psycho, Qwaz
Date : 2011-02-05 09:47
Title : Re: BfA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hm... am I misremembering or didn't the voider die?

I'm not sure about the FC thing, but I think the narrator is under obligation to clarify this one since it's clearly a

rules-related question, so if I were you I'd ask.

Have you scried Tialait yet? Because if not, that's the obvious target now.

Not that I'm sure we want to check an obvious target.

I went for a non-obvious target. Literally picked a random player.

There is a good chance I will be voided again though.

Fleeing Coward is of the opinion that the reason Gray Mage was lynched is that Lex & the Professor both voted for him.

Personally I think it might just be the narrator saying 'you can't lynch that guy, he is auto-lynched. So you lynch the

guy with the next most votes.

================================================== ==============================
From : Qwaz
To : Alarra, Haruki-kun, Lex-kat, Murska, Zanshin
Date : 2011-02-05 10:26
Title : Battle for alarra clarification
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Lex,

Just checking something. Are the wolves immune to Mine and Zanshin's beast ability? I know in some games wolves are immune

(since the wolf won't go after their own...etc) and i wondered if this was one of those.

As is quite obvious it will become very relavent in the next day phase.

Thanks

PS - we're working on the night actions. Coming soon!

================================================== ==============================
From : Qwaz
To : Alarra, Haruki-kun, Murska, Zanshin
Date : 2011-02-05 11:11
Title : Re: Battle for Alarra night 7
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CD4 -Villager - Night 3
Lord Fullbladder MOG - Villager - Night 5
Tasroth - Villager - Night 6

others who are alive and not us

Sanity702
Szilard
Orzel
Otakuryoga
Mangosta71
Lady Tialait (carless/baner????)
Ramsus (carless/baner????) - Interferance night 1 & 4
Imperial Psycho - Seer/Fool
Eldritch Knight
Fleeing Coward
Atreyu the Masked Llama - Interferance Night 3

Some of those interferances were Imperial Psycho scries. All the scries up top are definate Haruki's.

Do you happen to have a list of who Haruki has scried as a Playgrounder who's still alive?

I'm getting a Roland-ish vibe from Szilard, for instance, though it might just be an uninterested playgrounder.

Cool.

Night officially ends in 8 hours or so. I'll be sending these no later than 1700 GMT (6 hours) so let me know of anything

you're thinking, any changes you want, before then.

Sounds good to me. Feel free to send 'em in.

All i've heard back so far is murska's conve with IP. If he could be scrying one of us it might be best to

kill him although he may now be baned. If we leave it any longer though he probably will be as people come round the the

idea that he's "The Last Seer!".

At the minute i'd guess Lady T is baning ramsus and ramsus is baning her...or something similar (since one is a careless

baner). She seems awfully confident of her baning network considering there's no seer in it to protect.

I'm now thinking we should take the risk and

Kill Imperial Psycho
Scry Ramsus

I've set up a little confusion over lady T to give anyone who's not going to "miss this day" someone to point at [Or are

we immune from Zanshin's beast ability? Anyone know?]

Murska, are you good to send in the actions or do you want me to? (assuming everyone's good with them...please shout if

there are better ideas going round)

Ok ladies and gents,

Who should we Scry/Kill tonight.

Murska...why don't you ask IP something like "Have you scried LT? Can we trust her?" With him being the only Good side

seer left we can use Alarra's disguise judicously if we know who he's looking at. Also avoid Interferance for Haruki.

How about...

Kill Szilard (Anyone not baned really)
Scry Ramsus
Get IP to scry Lady T (well anyone but Ramsus)
Disguise...I guess alarra as default unless IP is looking at one of us.

Fleeing coward will start something on Alarra again so I want to kill him quite badly. With the Zanshin outing - people

will be piling on his wagon tomorrow giving us another chance to kill FC tomorrow night.

Gray Mage and Korias went into hiding. Gray Mage was Shadow (Seer/Defender).

Korias was Atreyu the Masked Llama (Seer/Fool). He was Auto-Lynched.

Well THAT was easy.

AND I was just outed in thread.

I have an idea to take Lady T out with me. It's risky. But it doesn't involve any of you, so only I'm at risk. And if I

die, I take one of them with me.

================================================== ==============================
From : Haruki-kun
To : Alarra, Murska, Qwaz, Zanshin
Date : 2011-02-05 15:31
Title : WAIT
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To those suggesting killing Tialait: I don't think we should. She'll be baned, and then it'll be confirmed to the rest of

the village that she's a villager. They already suspect she's lying.

Let's kill a random villager. How about Eldritch Knight?


================================================== ==============================
From : Qwaz
To : Lex-kat, Murska
Date : 2011-02-05 17:29
Title : Battle for Alarra night 7
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey

Kill Imperial Psycho
Scry Ramsus

Cheers

================================================== ==============================
From : Lex-kat
To : Qwaz, Supagoof
Date : 2011-02-05 18:24
Title : FW: Battle for alarra clarification
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've never gave much thought to this. I'll give it to Supagoof to help me answer this.

Hi Lex,

Just checking something. Are the wolves immune to Mine and Zanshin's beast ability? I know in some games wolves are immune

(since the wolf won't go after their own...etc) and i wondered if this was one of those.

As is quite obvious it will become very relavent in the next day phase.

Thanks

PS - we're working on the night actions. Coming soon!

================================================== ==============================
From : Haruki-kun
To : Alarra, Murska, Qwaz, Zanshin
Date : 2011-02-05 20:34
Title : Re: Gotcha again
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So we have Korias because he is going to auto anyway, Gray Mage for suggesting Korias,

and Alarra for being Alarra and a likely pick by the wolves. I think I will point at Gray Mage to

balance the wagons.

cd4 said this when Korias was at 4 and Grey Mage at only 1. Either he's bad at math or he slipped up and he's Lex-Kat.

Dunno.

But you'll be happy to know Ramsus is, in fact, Zeb the Troll.

================================================== ==============================
From : Qwaz
To : Murska
Date : 2011-02-07 14:14
Title : Re: Battle for Alarra
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ahhhh, I had forgotten that your point was potent too!

FC asked me whether I was Lex since IP trusted me. I said yes, because that was the safest way. I have a

triplevote currently, just like Lex.

Can't switch my vote currently, but that doesn't matter.

Okay, so according to vote-analysis either Orzel or Mangosta is Lex. We don't want Lex to die -

Fleeing Coward forced me to claim it to him privately. Maybe we should scry one to figure out which. Then again, our main

priority is finding Supagoof - someone could do some analysis on the earlier wagons if they have the time, to narrow down

suspects.

I think this is his test. Alarra had already switched and since I *still* haven't heard back about wether we're affected

by Zanshin's beast () I've jumping over to even the wagons (Alarra alone would be enough to reveal your lie

if Lady T didn't die)

My advise. Switch to Zanshin. Say you want to garuntee the confessed wolf dies, not the maybe wolf. or something similar.

BTW: Why claim Lex? What was FC threatening?

Can we not just get through this day phase and kill him while we hunt for Roland/Supagoof...etc

================================================== ==============================
From : Murska
To : Alarra, Haruki-kun, Qwaz, Zanshin
Date : 2011-02-08 08:20
Title : BfA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay, there's something seriously wrong here... and I think we're screwed.

Because FC's maths can't be right. And once they lynch Alarra and figure out she's not the Professor, we're even more

screwed.

Especially once Atreyu, who's Lex, autoes or claims and we're yet more screwed.

I don't think we can win this in any way now that Zanshin is outed, will take Qwaz with him once he dies, I'm gonna be

outed tomorrow at the latest and Alarra is suspected on false logic.

I think our only chance to possibly clear Alarra's name even a bit is to kill Atreyu this night, which will mean I get

lynched tomorrow, Zanshin after that and, possibly, Alarra is forgotten afterwards. :/

Maybe it'll draw suspicion on FC. Probably not. *shrug*

Anyway, I'm sending in a kill at Atreyu. Haruki, keep trying to find Supagoof.

================================================== ==============================
From : Murska
To : Lex-kat, Qwaz
Date : 2011-02-08 08:21
Title : BfA Action
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ooooh damn.

Well, we're killing Atreyu because he's the only possible Lex-Kat. Sorry.

I think we're dead now.

================================================== ==============================
From : Murska
To : Alarra, Haruki-kun, Qwaz, Zanshin
Date : 2011-02-08 08:51
Title : Re: BfA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay, there's something seriously wrong here... and I think we're screwed.

Because FC's maths can't be right. And once they lynch Alarra and figure out she's not the Professor, we're even more

screwed.

Especially once Atreyu, who's Lex, autoes or claims and we're yet more screwed.

I don't think we can win this in any way now that Zanshin is outed, will take Qwaz with him once he dies, I'm gonna be

outed tomorrow at the latest and Alarra is suspected on false logic.

I think our only chance to possibly clear Alarra's name even a bit is to kill Atreyu this night, which will mean I get

lynched tomorrow, Zanshin after that and, possibly, Alarra is forgotten afterwards. :/

Maybe it'll draw suspicion on FC. Probably not. *shrug*

Anyway, I'm sending in a kill at Atreyu. Haruki, keep trying to find Supagoof.

Hold on. Artreyu isn't Lex.

FC's maths didn't turn out the right answer but we have more info.

You 5 were the ones on the Gray Mage bandwagon.

Murska
Alarra
Orzel
CD4
Mangosta71

And FC was right. Your point alone would only have taken Gray Mage to 7 votes and Korias had 8.

We know CD4 is a villager so Lex MUST be Orzel or Mangosta.

So let's say we Kill Fleeing coward tonight. Tomorrow we'll lose either Zanshin or Alarra. The next day the next one.

We leave Orzel and Mangosta71 well alone and your cover stays intact. Just be sure to look where they're pointing and use

that (either to balance or to hide).

I see no reason why you, I or Haruki will come out of this looking bad. by the time another few day phases have passed

noone will remember or care FC had a suspicion of me.

We might lose you too murska if Orzel or Mangosta speaks out but there's no way to silence them properly.

I suggest we change the kill to Fleeing Coward and scry Otakuryoga (random shot looking for roland). Artreyu may well auto

tomorrow anyway

Wait. Hm. Right, damn fever. Let me re-check...

Copypasta on FC's stuff, someone doublecheck these are correct:

Today
Voted for Zanshin:
cd4
Ramsus
Orzel
Lady Tialait
Tasroth
otakuryoga
Fleeing Coward
mangosta71

Voted for Tialait: (Lex is either here or didn't vote.)
Murska
Lord Fullbladder
Eldritch Knight
Szilard
Alarra
Qwaz

And Lex is:
Murska
Alarra
Orzel
CD4
Mangosta71

...Orzel, cd4, Mangosta71 weren't on the Tialait wagon. Thus, Zanshin should've been lynched. What...?


================================================== ==============================
From : Qwaz
To : Murska
Date : 2011-02-08 09:33
Title : Re: BfA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Copypasta on FC's stuff, someone doublecheck these are correct:

Today
Voted for Zanshin:
cd4
Ramsus
Orzel
Lady Tialait
Tasroth
otakuryoga
Fleeing Coward
mangosta71

Correct

Voted for Tialait: (Lex is either here or didn't vote.)
Murska
Lord Fullbladder
Eldritch Knight
Szilard
Alarra
Qwaz

Correct

And Lex is:
Murska
Alarra
Orzel
CD4
Mangosta71

Must be. Can scratch CD4 too. Scried him as a villager.

...Orzel, cd4, Mangosta71 weren't on the Tialait wagon. Thus, Zanshin should've been lynched. What...?

I think there's got to be some Narrator error here cos you're right. Both of the potential Lex's were on Zanshin's wagon

so he should have more votes.

I've looked and the only other vote effecting role is the Alarra role but TFT was that and we killed him.

Maybe a secret role out there we don't know about?

================================================== ==============================
From : Murska
To : Alarra, Haruki-kun, Lex-kat, Qwaz, Zanshin
Date : 2011-02-08 09:36
Title : FW: BfA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay, belay that order, Lex. I'd want a confirmation that there isn't any error here.

Copypasta on FC's stuff, someone doublecheck these are correct:

Today
Voted for Zanshin:
cd4
Ramsus
Orzel
Lady Tialait
Tasroth
otakuryoga
Fleeing Coward
mangosta71

Correct

Voted for Tialait: (Lex is either here or didn't vote.)
Murska
Lord Fullbladder
Eldritch Knight
Szilard
Alarra
Qwaz

Correct

And Lex is:
Murska
Alarra
Orzel
CD4
Mangosta71

Must be. Can scratch CD4 too. Scried him as a villager.

...Orzel, cd4, Mangosta71 weren't on the Tialait wagon. Thus, Zanshin should've been lynched. What...?

I think there's got to be some Narrator error here cos you're right. Both of the potential Lex's were on Zanshin's wagon

so he should have more votes.

I've looked and the only other vote effecting role is the Alarra role but TFT was that and we killed him.

Maybe a secret role out there we don't know about?

================================================== ==============================
From : Supagoof
To : Lex-kat, Qwaz
Date : 2011-02-08 13:25
Title : Re: Battle for alarra clarification
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've never gave much thought to this. I'll give it to Supagoof to help me answer this.

Hi Lex,

Just checking something. Are the wolves immune to Mine and Zanshin's beast ability? I know in some games wolves are immune

(since the wolf won't go after their own...etc) and i wondered if this was one of those.

As is quite obvious it will become very relavent in the next day phase.

Thanks

PS - we're working on the night actions. Coming soon!

Sorry, been away for a bit. I'm going to go with yes

- the beast wouldn't take one of his own in it's death.

================================================== ==============================
From : Murska
To : Alarra, Haruki-kun, Qwaz, Zanshin
Date : 2011-02-08 19:07
Title : Re: BfA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since Lex claims to have checked her math...

The only possible conclusion is that there are some secret roles/rules in play that we don't know about. Which kind of

sucks and screwed us over.

================================================== ==============================
From : Haruki-kun
To : Alarra, Murska, Qwaz, Zanshin
Date : 2011-02-08 19:39
Title : Re: BfA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As secret roles usually do for the wolves.

Alright... I guess we have no choice but to keep going. Let's try to take down the network.

================================================== ==============================
From : Qwaz
To : Alarra, Haruki-kun, Murska, Zanshin
Date : 2011-02-08 20:56
Title : Re: BfA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK. Whatever the role is must have something to do with adding to the votes aswell...

These all voted for Tialait today

Szilard
Qwaz
Murska
Alarra
Lord Fullbladder
Eldritch Knight

and these all voted for Gray mage yesterday

Alarra
cd4
Mangosta71
Murska
Orzel

Yesterday
One of mangosta and Orzel must add +1(min maybe +2) to their vote ontop of their point (that would bring the Gray Mage

wagon to 8 points (min) to match Korias' and would have gotten there first...just.)

Szilard was on the Korias bandwagon however so I'm wanting to say his point is only worth 1.

Today
Orzel and Mangosta were both on the Zanshin wagon taking it up to 9 votes minimum...10 votes maximum (assuming noone has a

point worth more than 3 an donly one of them is a role since Lady T won)

Lord Fullbladder and Eldritch Knight didn't vote yesterday so I'm inclined to believe it's one of their points that must

also be worth more than normal. or Lady T couldn't have won. Especially with Orzel/Mangosta on her Bandwagon.

Long story short.

I think Lex & Hidden Role lie somewhere in these 4 players.
Lord Fullbladder, MOG
Eldritch Knight
Orsel
Mangosta

Maybe, but less likely:

Szilard.

So. What do? I reckon we'll just have to scry/kill 2 each knight and take our chances.

Scry Fullbladder
Kill Eldritch Knight?

================================================== ==============================
From : Murska
To : Alarra, Haruki-kun, Lex-kat, Qwaz, Zanshin
Date : 2011-02-08 21:01
Title : Re: BfA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think we're already scrying Mangosta, let's kill Orzel. Just because those are the two old Lex-suspects.

So yeah, this PM is going to Lex aswell. If you really want to switch it, feel free.

================================================== ==============================
From : Qwaz
To : Alarra, Haruki-kun, Murska, Zanshin
Date : 2011-02-08 21:18
Title : Re: BfA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sounds fine to me.

Just had a thought though. The secret role could being anything to do with vote changing really. Maybe they change the

vote above theirs to match their own? Or the vote below? Maybe they can charge their vote (i've just had a breif scan of

the USB roles) so one of the bandwagoners might have counted for 0...or lots?

If it's one of those scenario's our maths will do very little to illuminate matters and our targets may not be on the

lists of voters at all.

if for example Sanity702 changed the korias vote beneath him to Murska aswell. The Gray mage wagon would have won like it

did with only Murska being on it.

*sigh* secret roles

[Qwaz]

This is just going to be my last post on this topic since it's just going to go in circles and it doesn't look like Qwaz and I will see eye to eye on this situation.

The basis of my argument is this:
1) Murska should not have brought the narrator into the situation with his lie like he did. Basically, make all the claims you want but if your claim requires the narrator to intervene under any circumstance at all you've gone too far.
2) Once Lex was brought into the situation, I believe it was his duty to deny it not just remain silent especially if a living player had specifically asked for him to confirm or deny the truthfulness of such a statement. I'll concede this is point is open for debate.

@Lex: the way I see it, Murska would had brought up his demise by himself with a lie like that. If you had said outright he's lying, you wouldn't be responsible for the situation since he was the one that brought you into this matter in the first place that gave you the option to deny it.

Anyways, this is the last you'll hear from me on this issue. I've only been responding to Qwaz's posts because he keeps responding to mine

Then this shall be my last too. Let us at least agree to an amicable cessestion of all arguing.

[mangosta71]

Every game I've ever been in with Murska, he's pulled something like that - there's always a quoted "PM". I stopped blindly believing it when I realized I could do this:

Blue Ghost scries as a Parent.

and claim that it was a PM.

Of course, when he finally pulled it in this game I was already dead so it wouldn't have been appropriate for me to lead the BULL**** scream against him.

[Lex-Kat]

Who warned Ramsus to protect himself Night 6?

In his PM to me, he said he was told to do so.

[Qwaz]

Day/Night 9

Spoiler

Show

================================================== ==============================
From : Qwaz
To : Alarra, Haruki-kun, Murska
Date : 2011-02-09 11:57
Title : BfA - New analysis
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So...New results require new maths I think.

DAY 7
Gray mage wagon
Alpha: Murska: 1 (+2 extra for there being 20 players)
Disguiser: Alarra: 1
Villager: CD4: 1
Assasin: Mangosta71: 1
Villager: Orzel: 1
Total: 7 (reached 7 first)

Korias Wagon

Seer/Defender: Gray Mage: 1
Devil: Haruki-kun: 1
Seer/Fool: Imperial Psycho: 1
?????: Otakuryoga: ?
Beast: Qwaz: 1
Baner: Ramsus: 1
?????: Szilard: ?
Beast: Zanshin: 1
Total: ?? (8 minimum)

ok. Even if those two were villager the Korias wagon should have won. If there was anything extra on their vote it

definetly should have. I can only assume a point was somehow changed. Maybe a vote from Korias was vortexed to someone

else or someone elses was vortexed onto Gray Mage?

Either way It's looking grim for Alarra today. When she dies and isn't Prof or Lex more questions are going to be asked

about FC's maths though. Small yey?

I think we're already scrying Mangosta, let's kill Orzel. Just because those are the two old Lex-suspects.



So yeah, this PM is going to Lex aswell. If you really want to switch it, feel free.

Since Lex claims to have checked her math...

The only possible conclusion is that there are some secret roles/rules in play that we don't know about. Which kind of

sucks and screwed us over.

OK. Whatever the role is must have something to do with adding to the votes aswell...

These all voted for Tialait today

Szilard
Qwaz
Murska
Alarra
Lord Fullbladder
Eldritch Knight

and these all voted for Gray mage yesterday

Alarra
cd4
Mangosta71
Murska
Orzel

Yesterday
One of mangosta and Orzel must add +1(min maybe +2) to their vote ontop of their point (that would bring the Gray Mage

wagon to 8 points (min) to match Korias' and would have gotten there first...just.)

Szilard was on the Korias bandwagon however so I'm wanting to say his point is only worth 1.

Today
Orzel and Mangosta were both on the Zanshin wagon taking it up to 9 votes minimum...10 votes maximum (assuming noone has a

point worth more than 3 an donly one of them is a role since Lady T won)

Lord Fullbladder and Eldritch Knight didn't vote yesterday so I'm inclined to believe it's one of their points that must

also be worth more than normal. or Lady T couldn't have won. Especially with Orzel/Mangosta on her Bandwagon.

Long story short.

I think Lex & Hidden Role lie somewhere in these 4 players.
Lord Fullbladder, MOG
Eldritch Knight
Orsel
Mangosta

Maybe, but less likely:

Szilard.

So. What do? I reckon we'll just have to scry/kill 2 each knight and take our chances.

Scry Fullbladder
Kill Eldritch Knight?

================================================== ==============================
From : Qwaz
To : Alarra, Haruki-kun, Murska
Date : 2011-02-09 12:07
Title : FW: Battle for alarra clarification
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Got this about 10 hours after the relevent day ended too.

I asked during the previous night phase as well so while i realise supagoof was away I'm a little put out because i think

our actions would have been quite different.

At least you guys know for when I get the chop.

I've never gave much thought to this. I'll give it to Supagoof to help me answer this.

Hi Lex,

Just checking something. Are the wolves immune to Mine and Zanshin's beast ability? I know in some games wolves are immune

(since the wolf won't go after their own...etc) and i wondered if this was one of those.

As is quite obvious it will become very relavent in the next day phase.

Thanks

PS - we're working on the night actions. Coming soon!

Sorry, been away for a bit. I'm going to go with yes

- the beast wouldn't take one of his own in it's death.

================================================== ==============================
From : Haruki-kun
To : Alarra, Murska, Qwaz
Date : 2011-02-09 15:17
Title : Re: BfA - Who's left?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rule of thumb: Around day 10,you'll always regret not killing someone on night 1. Always.

So let's kill FC already. He's lived long enough.

Whoops. Forgot arteyu was unknown. 6 unknowns.

I've taken out us and the dead to leave us the remaining players. I've included all info gleaned from

scrys...etc

The Playground

Atreyu the Masked Llama - ????, IP got interference night 3
Cd4 - Villager (Night 3 scry)
Eldritch Knight - ????
Fleeing Coward - ????
Lord Fullbladder, MoG - Villager (Night 5 scry)
Otakuryoga - ????
Ramsus - Baner (Night 7 scry)
Sanity702 - ????
Szilard -????
Tasroth - Villager (Nght 6 scry)


Only 5 unknowns there. Excellent.

I suggest we kill Fleeing coward asap since he's quite a vocal village leader.

Sanity or eldritch knight for the scry?

================================================== ==============================
From : Qwaz
To : Haruki-kun, Murska
Date : 2011-02-11 15:38
Title : BFA - targets.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey guys Minutes silence for the passing of alarra.

At least it happened once the scryers had all gone down and it's revealed the fact of a secret role to thread at large.

Now vote analysers won't be so over confident.

Given that Fleeing coward is still doing all the work for the village and that he's dropped off a preliminary list of

suspects that's quite pleasent for us; I suggest we

Night kill Fleeing Coward
Scry Otakuryoga

We know FC isn't lex and is probably just a villager so that won't out you Murska. Otakuryoga is one of those still

unknown to us and not a likely target of a bandwagon come tomorrow.

Fleeing Cowards List
Lord Fullbladder (Villager)
Eldritch Knight
Atreyu

================================================== ==============================
From : Haruki-kun
To : Lex-kat, Murska, Qwaz
Date : 2011-02-11 16:04
Title : Scry
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
otakuryoga please.

================================================== ==============================
From : Murska
To : Haruki-kun, Qwaz
Date : 2011-02-11 16:24
Title : Re: BFA - targets.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hmm. Well, Ramsus is telling me in PMs that he's baning me. Well, I wouldn't be too sure about that - it smells like a

lure to get us to attack him so he can attack me. Let's not do that. The key is finding Supagoof and getting rid of him

while trying to make Ramsus trust me... while avoiding hitting Lex.

Killing FC hopefully credits his analysis, which'd be grand, since it's completely wrong.

Afterwards, we'd probably want to only kill people we know aren't Lex... but the real Lex hasn't outed him/herself to get

rid of me for some reason...

Oh well, when s/he does, I can probably get him/her lynched based on the fact that my claim is much more credible. As long

as we don't accidentally kill him/her.

================================================== ==============================
From : Qwaz
To : Haruki-kun, Lex-kat, Murska, Supagoof
Date : 2011-02-11 22:40
Title : Re: BFA - targets.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For clarity,

our actions for tonight are

Night kill Fleeing Coward
Scry Otakuryoga

Thank you

================================================== ==============================
From : Qwaz
To : Haruki-kun, Murska
Date : 2011-02-13 14:24
Title : Re: BFA - targets.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh and one of...

Artreyu
Eldritch Knight
Sanity702
Fleeing coward

...must be Lex-kat

Lex confirmed the korias gray mage thing was 7votes to 8 which means lex wasn't on either wagon.

Those 4 were the only one's off-wagon (Alarra or no-point) who we don't have intel on.

All FC's posts scream "kill me"

I think he's baned

For clarity,

our actions for tonight are

Night kill Fleeing Coward
Scry Otakuryoga

Thank you

================================================== ==============================
From : Qwaz
To : Haruki-kun, Lex-kat, Murska, Supagoof
Date : 2011-02-13 14:30
Title : BFA - LAST MINUTE CHANGE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fleeing Coward is baned.

Night kill Otakuryoga
Scry Eldritch Knight

Murska or Haruki can over rule if they so choose.

================================================== ==============================
From : Murska
To : Haruki-kun, Lex-kat, Qwaz, Supagoof
Date : 2011-02-13 14:37
Title : Re: BFA - LAST MINUTE CHANGE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frankly, FC getting baned and surviving isn't the worst that could happen. At least that way he'll be pointing the town at

the wrong direction, I hope.

And Ramsus said he's baning me, though that might be a ruse. FC also sent me and Ramsus orders to accuse a couple of

people who aren't wolves if he dies.

I think we should go with luck here - I mean, bad luck has screwed us over so far, and if we lose the game to it, then

it's not our fault. But let's hope for some good luck for once.

Kill Fleeing Coward.

================================================== ==============================
From : Qwaz
To : Haruki-kun, Murska
Date : 2011-02-13 14:39
Title : Re: BFA - LAST MINUTE CHANGE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed.

================================================== ==============================
From : Haruki-kun
To : Murska, Qwaz
Date : 2011-02-13 18:37
Title : FW: Scry
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

otakuryoga please.

She is Supagoof, the Day-Baner.

Day/Night 10

Spoiler

Show

================================================== ==============================
From : Qwaz
To : Ramsus
Date : 2011-02-16 13:38
Title : Battle for Alarra suspicion
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a copy/paste of what I deleted from the thread. Thought it was day but since it's night I don't want to give the

wolves a target incase he is good. If I die tonight please raise my suspicions in thread. I've told the thread i've PM'd

you this.

--------------------------------

Until I hear some more I'll put a place holder point on Tasroth.

Since I know him in RL and have talked to him about the game (nothing that couldn't be done over PM) I've been trying to

avoid this but I've got a feeling he's a wolf.

He seemed keen to agree with the sanity wagon...

Funny thing. I actually suspected Sanity702 for the Day 1 bit a few days ago.

So, yeah I agree with this logic.

...even cited it's unstoppability as a partial reason for joining the Alarra wagon (I read this as a late-wolf hop on)

Well, not only is this unstoppable, but I agree with the logic. So, Alarra.

and then his points have flown so far under the radar they're practically sub-terrainian.

I'll go with Zanshin I guess.

*shrug*

Matt K I guess

Sanity702.

Revenge point at otakuryoga, because I can easily believe Thufir missed 2

days of pointing through RL distraction.
Or possibly Team Fortress 2 :P

Seriously.

Day 1 Random: Korias

You think i've quoted too many of his posts...I agree. However, that's actually ALL of his posts. When I saw that i

thought why not quote em all since it won't take very long.

He's been keeping a low profile since day 1 and I've seen him do this before when he had a power-role in Classic. I've

waited this long because firstly I know him IRL and secondly I wasn't sure he's not a good power-role. I think most have

been killed now though.

He still could be a good power role if we have any left but I think the odds of him being a wolf have got to be a little

higher by now. Either way I want to hear more from him on the subject...hell on any subject.

I know it's nothing conclusive but since I could die at any time I wanted to raise my suspicions before it was too late.

-----------------------------

================================================== ==============================
From : Qwaz
To : Haruki-kun, Murska
Date : 2011-02-16 13:41
Title : FW: Battle for Alarra suspicion
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just sent this to Ramsus. I figure it'll be a nice lead to chase down tomorrow to distract people from yourself Murska and

your brilliant defense.

This is a copy/paste of what I deleted from the thread. Thought it was day but since it's night I don't want

to give the wolves a target incase he is good. If I die tonight please raise my suspicions in thread. I've told the thread

i've PM'd you this.

--------------------------------

Until I hear some more I'll put a place holder point on Tasroth.

Since I know him in RL and have talked to him about the game (nothing that couldn't be done over PM) I've been trying to

avoid this but I've got a feeling he's a wolf.

He seemed keen to agree with the sanity wagon...

Funny thing. I actually suspected Sanity702 for the Day 1 bit a few days ago.

So, yeah I agree with this logic.

...even cited it's unstoppability as a partial reason for joining the Alarra wagon (I read this as a late-wolf hop on)

Well, not only is this unstoppable, but I agree with the logic. So, Alarra.

and then his points have flown so far under the radar they're practically sub-terrainian.

I'll go with Zanshin I guess.

*shrug*

Matt K I guess

Sanity702.

Revenge point at otakuryoga, because I can easily believe Thufir missed 2

days of pointing through RL distraction.
Or possibly Team Fortress 2 :P

Seriously.

Day 1 Random: Korias

You think i've quoted too many of his posts...I agree. However, that's actually ALL of his posts. When I saw that i

thought why not quote em all since it won't take very long.

He's been keeping a low profile since day 1 and I've seen him do this before when he had a power-role in Classic. I've

waited this long because firstly I know him IRL and secondly I wasn't sure he's not a good power-role. I think most have

been killed now though.

He still could be a good power role if we have any left but I think the odds of him being a wolf have got to be a little

higher by now. Either way I want to hear more from him on the subject...hell on any subject.

I know it's nothing conclusive but since I could die at any time I wanted to raise my suspicions before it was too late.

-----------------------------

================================================== ==============================
From : Qwaz
To : Haruki-kun, Murska
Date : 2011-02-16 13:52
Title : BFA Night 10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So who to target tonight?

Szilard
EK
Atreyu

are the only unknowns left and I think they must all be Villagers.

Do we want to risk aiming for Otakuryoga knowing that Lady T was in a Baner network? It might have only contained Ramsus

but maybe Otakuryoga too?

There are 8 good players left to our 3. An early move on Tasroth tomorrow might make our lives a little easier.

I reckon we should risk it. try to take out Otakauryoga...that makes the "Tasroth has a powerole which is probably bad"

arguement a little stronger.

If we scry any of the top 3 it's as good as another.

================================================== ==============================
From : Haruki-kun
To : Lex-kat, Qwaz
Date : 2011-02-16 14:52
Title : Re: BFA Night 10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll scry Atreyu.

================================================== ==============================
From : Haruki-kun
To : Murska, Qwaz
Date : 2011-02-16 14:54
Title : Re: BFA Night 10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We can still win this, but if Ryoga is protects himself... We're screwed. It's gonna be close.

================================================== ==============================
From : Qwaz
To : Haruki-kun, Lex-kat, Murska, Supagoof
Date : 2011-02-16 17:05
Title : Re: BFA Night 10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sending in a night kill for Otakuryoga.

If Murska or Haruki send in a change, please use their target.

Haruki has already sent in a scry on Atreyu the Masked llama.

Day/Night 11

Spoiler

Show

================================================== ==============================
From : Lex-kat
To : Haruki-kun, Murska, Qwaz
Date : 2011-02-17 09:29
Title : Re: BFA Night 10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sending in a night kill for Otakuryoga.

If Murska or Haruki send in a change, please use their target.

Haruki has already sent in a scry on Atreyu the Masked llama.

So I have to ask.... Why didn't you ask Otaku to protect Murska?

You did realize Supagoof was a Neutral, didn't you?

================================================== ==============================
From : Murska
To : Lex-kat, Qwaz
Date : 2011-02-17 10:28
Title : Re: BFA Night 10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sending in a night kill for Otakuryoga.

If Murska or Haruki send in a change, please use their target.

Haruki has already sent in a scry on Atreyu the Masked llama.

So I have to ask.... Why didn't you ask Otaku to protect Murska?

You did realize Supagoof was a Neutral, didn't you?

Well, Tialait insisted he was on their side. Not to mention the risk of having one of us talk to him if he was. And the

fact that a neutral Careless Baner quite possibly has a win condition to do with stopping nightkills, which is not quite

what we want.

================================================== ==============================
From : Haruki-kun
To : Murska, Qwaz
Date : 2011-02-17 15:53
Title : FW: BFA Night 10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll scry Atreyu.

is a Playgrounder.

================================================== ==============================
From : Murska
To : Haruki-kun, Lex-kat, Qwaz, Supagoof
Date : 2011-02-19 20:37
Title : BfA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm... alive.

Oh well...

cd4 for the kill tonight.

We'll have four votes against the village's five tomorrow - if they start pointing at someone other than me, we could push

for victory. But don't do it if they are unified, which they certainly should be at this point. I can't believe I'm

alive...

================================================== ==============================
From : Qwaz
To : Haruki-kun, Murska
Date : 2011-02-20 02:27
Title : Re: BfA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll try to sway something toward Tasroth again and see where it gets us :D

Day/Night 12

Spoiler

Show

================================================== ==============================
From : Qwaz
To : Haruki-kun, Murska
Date : 2011-02-21 08:21
Title : Re: BfA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh and I like how we have two counter wagons going right now...neither against a wolf

================================================== ==============================
From : Haruki-kun
To : Murska, Qwaz
Date : 2011-02-21 15:55
Title : Re: Scry
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, man. >.< I hate being the last man standing.

STAY WITH ME!

On the contrary. You are currently the least suspected wolf. You will possibly be our "last man standing"

On the scryer side. You're now only useless because you've found everyone already

.....Szilard, I guess.

Playgrounder.

I am now completely useless.

And that's your lot. I think i've sometimes put the scry result in the following day phase and sometimes in the night phase in which it was scried. In general though the whole thing should read more or less in order with some allowance made for the mega bundles of nested quotes!

[Qwaz]

Who warned Ramsus to protect himself Night 6?

In his PM to me, he said he was told to do so.

I got the impression it was a ploy by Lady T. Make ramsus look like the subtly hidden seer following their proxies wagon...we fell for it.

[Lex-Kat]

And after reading everything I think it needs mentioning, again.

The Defender parts of the Seer/Defender roles were not Baners. they had to protect their wards from being lynched or autolynched. If they failed that, then they died as well.

And if everyone wishes, I will run this again. But at a later date.

Can we discuss how you may think it'd run better now? Different roles?

[Qwaz]

Less chance town ends up with 2 100% seers. Liked the role idea though.

Maybe have only one of Shadow/Murska role and the other seer/fool roles don't switch randomly?

[Wizibirb]

I loved your narrations Lex, you are always great at narrating... I Really need to take a leaf from your book.

I blame myself for the loss, I should of immediately come out and contradicted Murskas statement that he was Lex...

Apologies team good.

[Lex-Kat]

With fewer mistakes, hopefully. And I like your narrations too.

[Lady Tialait]

I got the impression it was a ploy by Lady T. Make ramsus look like the subtly hidden seer following their proxies wagon...we fell for it.

At least that worked.

You see Ramus PM'd me that he knew a seer, who was Gray Mage. He didn't tell me anything else except that he was the baner. So, I went out and claimed seer with the information that I was given. Then made up the Baner Network to see if my bluff would have worked. Mostly to make the night killers pause at how fast we organized.

[Deathslayer7]

Kinda wished I wasn't the Pudding Troll. I knew my days were numbered when I recieved that PM. And then everyone was wondering whether or not Alarra had been attacked. Even after the "Alarra got the specific feeling she had just been protected." or whatnot.

Grrrrrrrrrrrr. And my input. Murska never should have asked to have a narrator make or deny a claim. I think he pulled you into it, which he shouldn't have, and therefore caused the problem. Either way I'm not sure what I would have done. Overall, I think silence was probably the best choice, because posting anything negative would have sealed Murska's death.

[Haruki-kun]

I liked this game a lot, actually... just... too many seer roles. I'm one of those who believe there should be less seers in games.

@Qwaz: Just for the future, I'd like to be consulted next time before you post my private messages in public, please.

[Ramsus]

Well to answer your much earlier question Lex, I enjoyed the narrations (except for all those ones where people on my side died, those sucked, you should make sure to never have people on my side die, this will make everyone happy, and by everyone I mean me), though I believe I mentioned that earlier anyway.

I'm not sure any of the rules really need changing. Oh wait. You need to add in a role for me! (*is actually somewhat terrified of what horrible shame you would thrust upon me if you did so*)