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2011-10-15, 01:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Necromantic Count (3.5 Prestige Class)
Necromantic Count
[I]"Rise! Rise to serve me!" Lillith Delvakor Necromantic Countess[/B]
There are few necromancers who have the power to lead an army of unstoppable minions, even less who can fire blasts of negative energy along with it. The Necromantic Count can do any of these things, and do it to such an extent that she forges a connection to the negative energy plane.
Entry Requirements
Skills: Knowledge(Arcana) 13, Knowledge(Religion) 13
Feat: Spell Focus(Necromancy), Great Fortitude
Spellcasting: Must be able to cast 5th level necromancy spells.
Alignment: Must be Non-Good.
Special: Must have killed a good creature with a necromancy spell.
Hit Die: d4
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Spellcasting
1st|+0|+0|+0|+2|Rebuke Undead|
2nd|+1|+0|+0|+3|Dread Army|+1 level of existing Spellcasting class
3rd|+1|+1|+2|+3|Channel the Negative| +1 level of existing Spellcasting class
4th|+2|+1|+1|+4|Potency| +1 level of existing Spellcasting class
5th|+2|+1|+1|+4|Check Again|+1 level of existing Spellcasting class
6th|+3|+2|+2|+5|Magical Bypass|+1 level of existing Spellcasting class
7th|+3|+2|+2|+5|Saved| +1 level of existing Spellcasting class
8th|+4|+2|+2|+6|Black is my Heart|+1 level of existing Spellcasting class
9th|+4|+3|+3|+6|Undead Buffer| +1 level of existing Spellcasting class
10th|+5|+3|+3|+7|From the Coffin to Enslave| [/table]
Class skills (4 + Int Modifier): Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy, Knowledge(Any), Spellcraft;
Armor and Weapon Proficiencies: You gain no new proficiencies with weapons, armor, or shields.
Spells per Day/Spells Known:
When a new Necromantic Count level is gained(except 1 and 10), the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in whatever spellcasting class in which he could cast 5th-level spells before he added the prestige class level. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If a character had more than one spellcasting class in which he could cast 5th-level spells before he became a Necromantic Count, he must decide to which class he adds each level of Necromantic Count for the purpose of determining spells per day.
Rebuke Undead: A Necromantic Count gains rebuking as an evil cleric of her Necromantic Count level. If she already has rebuking, level in this prestige class stack with the levels that gave her rebuking.
Dread Army (Sp): The Necromantic Count has learned how to raise an army of undead. At 2nd level she gains the ability to use Animate Dead spell as a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to her own 2/day.
Channel the Negative (Su): At 3rd level the Necromantic Count's connection to the negative energy plane allows her to drain more power than usual. She can have any of her spells do negative energy damage instead of normal energy damage..
At 6th level she gains an additional use for this ability. Anytime a living creature is affected by a Necromantic Count's negative energy spells she heals half the amount of damage.
Potency (Su): A Necromantic Count of 4th level gains half of her levels rounded up in Necromantic Count as a profane bonus to save DCs for her necromancy spells.
Check Again (Su): Whenever a Necromantic Count of 5th level fails to affect a target with a necromancy spell because the target succeeded it's saving throw or because of spell resistance, the target is instantly dealt 5d6 points of negative energy damage.
Magical Bypass (Ex): A Necromantic Count of 6th level draws some of her magic from the negative energy plane. She can cast any of her necromancy spells in a place that would normally suppres her magic, such as an anti-magic field or a dead magic zone. To succeed this requires a Spellcraft and Knowledge(The planes) Check equal to 25 + Spell Level. If one check succeeds but the other fails only half of the spell takes effect(Half damage/half death/range and duration halved/etc.)
As a down-side any spell that would limit traveling to the negative energy plane imposes a -10 penalty to the Necromantic Count's caster level.
Saved (EX): A Necromantic Count of 7th level has trained her undead to such an extent, that they gain a profane bonus on their saves equal to half her levels in Necromantic Count as long as they are within her line of sight.
Black is my Heart (Su): At 8th level the Necromantic Count's very essence has been consumed by darkness. She gains a profane bonus to saves and armor class equal to half her levels in Necromantic Count.
Undead Buffer (Ex): Any undead created by a Necromantic Count of 9th level gain a bonus to charisma equal to half her levels in Necromantic Count and bonus hit points equal to the undead's charisma modifier times their hit dice.
Vampiric Transformation: When reaching 10th level a Necromantic Count becomes a vampire and gains the [Evil] subtype. She gains the benefit of her Undead Buffer ability. She gains no level adjustment for becoming one.
----
My second homebrew attempt on this forum.
Hope you guys like it, and PEACH only please.
Oh and just by the way this isn't a female only class I only used a female pic, and called her Lillith, and used she and her numerous timesLast edited by Wavelab; 2011-10-19 at 02:26 PM.
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2011-10-15, 01:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
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- Pittsburgh, PA
- Gender
Re: Necromantic Count (3.5 Prestige Class)
The idea is sound, although I feel like it may be too strong. I'll go through ability by ability.
The wording here is somewhat vague- what exactly "spellcasting" is can be argued, as can the meaning of "no other benefits." Perhaps more importantly, it would appear that if she had multiple spellcasting classes before entering this PrC, she can advance all of them.
Familiar: At first level the Necromantic Count gains a familiar. If she already has a familiar it is lost. The familiar can be either a cat, a raven, a bat or a bunny. Her entire ECL is used to determine his familiar's abilities.
Rebuke Undead: A Necromantic Count gains rebuking as an evil cleric of her level. If she already has rebuking, level in this prestige class stack with the levels that gave her rebuking.
Dread Army (Sp): The Necromantic Count has learned how to raise an army of undead. At 2nd level she gains the ability to use Animate Dread Warrior 2/day. In addition her dread warriors don't have a penalty to int or wisdom.
Channel the Negative (Su): At 3rd level the Necromantic Count's connection to the negative energy plane allows her to drain more power than usual. She can have any of her spells do negative energy damage instead. Also anytime a living creature is affected by a Necromantic Count's negative energy spells she heals half the ammount of damage.
Potency: A Necromantic Count of 4th level gains her levels in Necromantic Count as a bonus to save DCs and Caster Level for her necromancy spells.
Check Again (Su): Whenever a Necromantic Count of 5th level fails to affect a target with a necromancy spell because the target succeeded it's saving throw or because of spell resistance, the target is instantly affected by the same spell again.
Magical Bypass (Ex): A Necromantic Count of 6th level draws some of her magic from the negative energy plane instead of the weave. She can cast any of her necromancy spells in a place that would normally suppres her magic, such as an anti-magic field or a dead magic zone.
Saved (EX): A Necromantic Count of 7th level has trained her undead to such an extent, that they gain bonuses on their saves equal to her levels in Necromantic Count.
Black is my Heart (Su): At 8th level the Necromantic Count's very essence has been consumed by darkness. She gains a bonus to saves and armor class equal to half her levels in Necromantic Count.
Undead Buffer (Ex): Any undead created by a Necromantic Count of 9th level have the unholy toughness special ability and a bonus to charisma equal to half her levels in Necromantic Count.
From the Coffin to Enslave: When reaching 10th level a Necromantic Count becomes a vampire. She gains the benefit of her Undead Buffer ability. She gains no level adjustment for becoming one, and also takes no damage from sunlight.
You also forgot to include class skills, and have a few minor formatting errors above the table.
Hope this was helpful.Hill Giant Games
I make indie gaming books for you!Spoiler
STaRS: A non-narrativeist, generic rules-light system.
Grod's Guide to Greatness, 2e: A big book of player options for 5e.
Grod's Grimoire of the Grotesque: An even bigger book of variant and expanded rules for 5e.
Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.
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2011-10-15, 02:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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Re: Necromantic Count (3.5 Prestige Class)
Alright followed your advice and changed it.
Thanks.
Anybody want to chip in?Last edited by Wavelab; 2011-10-15 at 02:17 PM.
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2011-10-16, 07:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
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- Boston, MA
Re: Necromantic Count (3.5 Prestige Class)
Minor note: the "Weave" is a Forgotten Realms only interpretation of magic. You may want to rewrite that flavor text so that it is more generic. Maybe just say that their magic is supplied by the negative energy plane.
"From the Coffin to Enslave" is a weird title. "Enslave" is a verb.
Dread Army- caster level of the spell-like ability should probably be made explicit. I presume it at character level?
Potency should have the bonus type clarified and the nature of the effect (as either "ex" or "su") specified. That ability also looks really concerning. A lot of the nastier necromancy spells have as their primary weakness that they give saves. A +5 or +6 bonus to saves is a lot.
Whenever a Necromantic Count of 5th level fails to affect a target with a necromancy spell because the target succeeded it's saving throw or because of spell resistance, the target is instantly affected by the same spell again. This ability can be used 3+charisma modifier times per day.
I'm slightly concerned that this classMy homebrew:
Spoiler
Completed:
ToB disciplines:
The Narrow Bridge
The Broken Blade
Prestige classess:
Disciple of Karsus -PrC for Karsites.
The Seekers of Lost Swords and the Preserver of Future Blades Two interelated Tome of Battle Prcs,
Master of the Hidden Seal - Binder/Divine hybrid
Knight of the Grave- Necromancy using Gish
Worthwhile links:
Age of Warriors
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2011-10-17, 10:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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- Coffin
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Re: Necromantic Count (3.5 Prestige Class)
Coming from the coffin to enslave. That's a proper use of a verb.
This class is supposed to give necromancers a bonus since they kind of get the short stick.
I agree that some of the stuff might be a little more suited to high-op players but that's why I said PEACH.
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2011-10-17, 02:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
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- Pittsburgh, PA
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Re: Necromantic Count (3.5 Prestige Class)
That's looking better. It's still quite powerful, particularly Potency, Check Again, and Undead Buffer, but not nearly as much as before. Probably not too ridiculous, given the general power of spellcasters at high levels.
I'd continue drop Potency to half her Necromatic Count class level (among other things, it's easier to calculate). Undead Buffer should, I feel like, be based on the hit die of the Undead, not that of the Count. Otherwise, you could spend 25gp on a 1-HD zombie with hundreds* of bonus HD.
Other than that, though, looking good.
*A sorcerer 10/NC 10 could easily have a +10 Charisma modifier. Even at that level, 200 bonus hit points is a LOT.
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2011-10-17, 05:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2005
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Re: Necromantic Count (3.5 Prestige Class)
As a note, this kinda looks like a stronger version of a Pale Master. The lack of lost caster levels and very easy to meet requirements makes this a no brainer for most Necromancer characters... that's an issue. It should cost SOMETHING to be in this class.
Basically, this is just the Pale Master ability, except you don't lose class levels to get it.
Channel the Negative (Su): At 3rd level the Necromantic Count's connection to the negative energy plane allows her to drain more power than usual. She can have any of her spells do negative energy damage instead.
At 6th level she gains an additional use for this ability. Anytime a living creature is affected by a Necromantic Count's negative energy spells she heals half the amount of damage.
Potency (Su): A Necromantic Count of 4th level gains 3/4 of her levels rounded up in Necromantic Count as a profane bonus to save DCs for her necromancy spells.
Check Again (Su): Whenever a Necromantic Count of 5th level fails to affect a target with a necromancy spell because the target succeeded it's saving throw or because of spell resistance, the target is instantly affected by the same spell again. She chooses to use this affect after the dice have been rollen. This ability can be used 3+charisma modifier times per day.
Magical Bypass (Ex): A Necromantic Count of 6th level draws some of her magic from the negative energy plane. She can cast any of her necromancy spells in a place that would normally suppres her magic, such as an anti-magic field or a dead magic zone. To succeed this requires a Spellcraft Check equal to 25 + Spell Level.
As a down-side any spell that would limit traveling to the negative energy plane imposes a -5 penalty to the Necromantic Count's caster level.
Saved (EX): A Necromantic Count of 7th level has trained her undead to such an extent, that they gain a profane bonus on their saves equal to her levels in Necromantic Count as long as they are within her line of sight.
Black is my Heart (Su): At 8th level the Necromantic Count's very essence has been consumed by darkness. She gains a profane bonus to saves and armor class equal to half her levels in Necromantic Count.
Undead Buffer (Ex): Any undead created by a Necromantic Count of 9th level gain bonus hit points equal to the Necromantic Count's charisma modifier times her hit dice and a bonus to charisma equal to half her levels in Necromantic Count.
From the Coffin to Enslave: When reaching 10th level a Necromantic Count becomes a vampire. She gains the benefit of her Undead Buffer ability. She gains no level adjustment for becoming one.
...definitely too strong. You give up only a feat and become god like. Why would a Dread Necromancer NOT take this class? Balance it against the Pale Master PrC and you'll get something reasonable.
JaronK
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2011-10-17, 08:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-10-17, 09:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
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- Boston, MA
Re: Necromantic Count (3.5 Prestige Class)
Oh. I see. I misparsed the sentence, interpreting "to" as a preposition. Gotcha. Other issues still hold. I'm not worried about it being stronger than the Pale Master since that class is on the weak side, but this may still be too strong.
My homebrew:
Spoiler
Completed:
ToB disciplines:
The Narrow Bridge
The Broken Blade
Prestige classess:
Disciple of Karsus -PrC for Karsites.
The Seekers of Lost Swords and the Preserver of Future Blades Two interelated Tome of Battle Prcs,
Master of the Hidden Seal - Binder/Divine hybrid
Knight of the Grave- Necromancy using Gish
Worthwhile links:
Age of Warriors
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2011-10-17, 09:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2010
- Location
- Hell's Heart
Re: Necromantic Count (3.5 Prestige Class)
Vone zombie! Two zombies! Three zombies! Ah-ah-ah! *krack-a-thoom*
...Okay, now that that's out of the way, let's analyze. It's a full-casting, 10-level PrC that can't be entered before 10th level; I like the idea of having a high-level PrC like an Archmage that spreads abilities out more. It's got fairly lax prerequisites (effectively two feats) and full casting, though, so its abilities shouldn't be too powerful. We're not going for IotSV, here.
Rebuke Undead is nice, although your pool won't be big enough to be very relevant if you enter as an arcane caster that's not a dread necromancer.
Dread Army is just a 3rd level spell twice per day. It's nice in that you don't have to burn spell slots to get some skeletal minions, but at that level it's nothing really devastating. Nice to have.
Channel the Negative is... a bit powerful. Giving all your spells, ever, the ability to heal your minions instead of hurt them and making them nigh-unresistable (since if they're immune, they're probably undead and therefore boned anyway) is kind of strong, even at that level. (Heh. Boned.)
Potency is save DC boosting. It's kind of awkward and a little much, actually; I'd tone it down to just 1/2 class level to DCs.
Check Again is pretty powerful, and doesn't really fit the class's theme.
Magical Bypass is way, WAY too powerful. DC 25+spell level is nothing at this point; there's a reason Initiate of Mystra and AMF not penetrating veils is broken.
Saved is also a little much. Lower it to 1/2 class level.
Black is My Heart is fine.
Undead Buffer's adding CHA to the minions makes no friggin' sense. The rest is just bonus HP; they're already serviceable meat shields.
From the Coffin to Enslave has a stupid name. The ability can only be gotten at 20th level or later, so who cares about LA? It's fine.
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2011-10-18, 01:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Necromantic Count (3.5 Prestige Class)
I was listening to Cradle at the time so yes. Yes it is.
I added great fortitude to the requirements which is something most undead should have anyway.
I changed most of the abilities too.
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2011-10-18, 11:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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- Near Atlanta,GA USA
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Re: Necromantic Count (3.5 Prestige Class)
One Major thing, a sidenote, and some of my trademark, slightly egocentric wiki-pedia like cross-indexing:
Major thing:
This class doesn't have enough drawbacks to it. 10/10 casting and enough goodies to be worth AT LEAST 4 feats(2 to "pay you back" for the 2 you invested, and 2 for the ones you get as a wizard at 15th and 20th levels). Specifically I am seeing:
- Greater Spell Focus[Necromancy]
- a better-than-a-feat Energy Substitution[Negative Energy]
- a better-than-a-feat Sudden Energy Substitution[Negative Energy]
This means that there is basically NO reason not to take this class over straight Wizard for any caster with even a mild interest in Necromancy. Even a GOOD aligned character who refuses to create undead gets enough side benefits from it to take it to level 9. Vampiric Disintegrates anyone? +4 to all saves and AC in a form that stacks with most other sources of such?
Granted you are at -5 caster level if someone lands a Dimensional Anchor on you, but by the time you get this, you are 16th level and probably so is the party cleric which means that for a measly 4th level slot he can make you immune to that spell and three others.
In short, I would probably drop this to 8/10 casting.
Sidenote:
For clarity I would reverse the order of the benefits you list for Undead Buffer to read "Any undead created by a Necromantic Count of 9th level gain a bonus to charisma equal to half her levels in Necromantic Count and bonus hit points equal to the undead's charisma modifier times their hit dice." I was almost going to say that this reduced the hit-points of most mindless undead until I reread and noticed that second clause.
Wiki-pedia like cross-indexing:
NOT MINE:
Corpse Crafting
MINE:
Organ undead:
SpoilerHow to get a bunch of Undead out of one corpse:
Corpse Ripper: A spell that simplifies the creation of these.
Skulking Bladders (with attached kidneys) CURRENTLY BARELY BEGUN CONSTRUCTION.
(Also have future plans for slithering livers (Con Damage) and maybe a Muscle Mass (Strength Damage.)
Sinister Spinal Cord: Paralysis followed it wrapping around the victim's throat to attempt a slow strangulation.
Zooming Brain: Fly past on barely controlled course damaging all mental abilities for a brief duration.
Fat Glob: Slow, weak, but LOTS of HD, and a fatigue effect if it hits.
Rolling Eyeball: Scouts, spies, and roving patrols. Zero offensive capabilities unless taken from something with a gaze attack or eye-rays.
Floating Lungs: (based around the Shout spell). Feel free to suggest a better name...
Hopping Stomach: Spits acid. (Note to self: Remake this thread so I can add Acid Splash as an option for sufficiently small ones).
Gut Snake: Undead intestines that fight with constriction, filth, and odor. Comment HERE.
Empty Skin: Macabre, but not always aggressive. Freak your characters/players out without a single die rolled... Intelligent servants for the necromancer just starting to come into his true power.
Dark Hearts: Literally pulsing with negative energy these repair the undead near them, and damage the living.
Last edited by DracoDei; 2011-10-23 at 04:14 PM.
[Public Service Announcement]P.E.A.C.H stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly[/Public Service Announcement]
Currently Running: Equestria Begins (A High Tactics campaign)
Extended Signature
My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.
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2011-10-18, 02:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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Re: Necromantic Count (3.5 Prestige Class)
Alright I changed it to 8/10 casting. Added an additional requirement and added that he gains the evil subtype at level 10.
Also I really like the corpsecrafter system. I haven't really checked the other stuff yet since I'm a little busy but it looks good too.
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2011-10-18, 02:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2010
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- Hell's Heart
Re: Necromantic Count (3.5 Prestige Class)
Make it nongood. Dread Necromancers just have to be nongood and it's no fun if you're obligated to be evil.
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2011-10-19, 01:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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- Coffin
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Re: Necromantic Count (3.5 Prestige Class)
Alright added the Nongood requirement.
I'm keeping the evil subtype since there isn't a [non good] subtype.
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2011-10-19, 11:55 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
- Location
- Boston, MA
Re: Necromantic Count (3.5 Prestige Class)
Current version apparently has the non-good requirement but also has the must be evil requirement still in the next line.
My homebrew:
Spoiler
Completed:
ToB disciplines:
The Narrow Bridge
The Broken Blade
Prestige classess:
Disciple of Karsus -PrC for Karsites.
The Seekers of Lost Swords and the Preserver of Future Blades Two interelated Tome of Battle Prcs,
Master of the Hidden Seal - Binder/Divine hybrid
Knight of the Grave- Necromancy using Gish
Worthwhile links:
Age of Warriors
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2011-10-19, 02:11 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
Re: Necromantic Count (3.5 Prestige Class)
More to the point, you don't have to burn cash. SLA's don't require any material components, even costly ones. This means that your skeletons are far more expendable than they otherwise would be.
From the Coffin to Enslave has a stupid name. The ability can only be gotten at 20th level or later, so who cares about LA?
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2011-10-19, 02:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2011
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- Coffin
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Re: Necromantic Count (3.5 Prestige Class)
Alright fixed the evil part.
And yes Yitzi, you are right on both accounts.