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Thread: Dex based fighter
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2011-10-28, 11:04 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
Dex based fighter
Since my net searching eventually and inevitably brings me here, iv decided to cut out the middle man and just join the forums . So my Dex based fighter build he's currently drawn up for level 6, I have no problem with how he is but was wondering if anyone had any comments, suggestions, concerns ect. or a good idea for a prc or where to go from here. Virtually all 3.5 books allowed just no dragon magazine.
Race: Chaond (using lesser planetouched version so no LA)
Attributes after racial adjustments
Str:11
Dex:24
Con:16
Int:12
Wis:08
Cha:08
lv1 Fighter (hit and run tactics variant DotU, Sneak Attack variant UA)
next five levels are vanilla fighter
feats
flaw:Martial Study (moment of perfect clarity)
flaw:Apprentice (spell caster)
1st: Craven
ftr2: Weapon Finesse
3rd: Martial Study (cloak of Deception)
ftr4: Martial Stance(island of blades)
6th: Shadow blade
ftr6: Two-weapon Fighting
So he adds Dex to damage twice and then his character level (I prefer flat damage boost to extra dice) Moment of perfect clarity gives him Concentration as a class skill so I crank that to subvert wil saves. Apprentice gives him UMD as a class skill which I would crank just because its the most useful skill ever, and later on will give him a lot more options beyond just swinging at something.
So... Where did I go wrong and where can I improve? thanks a bunch for any help.
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2011-10-28, 11:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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- Seattle, WA
- Gender
Re: Dex based fighter
I think once you choose the SA fighter, you can't swap back and forth on each level with normal fighter. Otherwise you'd just take normal fighter on the even levels (for the bonus feat), and SA fighter on the odd levels (for the SA dice), and lose...nothing.
Also, you have ToB material in there...have you considered taking levels of Warblade after your 6 levels of Fighter? Possibly even changing your levels around to save feats?
Human Warblade 1/Fighter5(eventually 6)/WarbladeX and pick up Able Learner. This'll give you just about everything but UMD.
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2011-10-28, 11:36 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
Re: Dex based fighter
Im not sure if you are strictly allowed to swap between variants but my DM does allow it. however he treats it as 6 levels of fighter not 3 SA fighter / 3 normal fighter, so i still gain nothing on odd levels and am still down 1 fighter bonus feat in the long run. I originally had levels of warblade but that only gives concentration for warblade levels not my fighter ones and doesnt allow access to shadow hand (what i use two of my martial feats for). Able learner i also considered at one point but it doesnt allow you to put full ranks into a cross class skill it just makes them cost only 1 point. I'm also kind of in love with my racial bonuses. a level or two of swordsage would save me some feats but id lose BAB.
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2011-10-28, 12:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
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- Boston
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Re: Dex based fighter
Needs Staggering Strike.
When you hit with a sneak attack, they must fort save vs. damage dealt or be staggered. This totally ruins the day of any creature dependent on full attacks (dragons, demons and melee-based humanoids) or mobility (flying creatures, some spellcasters, rogue-types) and makes you the bringer of death to big bosses who already suffer from action economy problems.Click the spoiler to see all the great games I design:
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2011-10-28, 12:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
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- Runite
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Re: Dex based fighter
Staggering Strike is as good as ^he makes it sounds; but IIRC it needs Weapon focus (any slashing) and BAB 6.
Also swordsage is really good even a 1 level dip will save you a three feats!!! and if you take it level 1 give you a massive increase in skill points, so I really suggest you check consider it.
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2011-10-28, 12:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
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2011-10-28, 01:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
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- Boston
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Re: Dex based fighter
It does require BAB+6 but not, I believe, Weapon Focus. Even if it did, it would be worth it, IMO, for any bruiser with sneak attack. I had it on a gestalt Fighter // Rogue, and with sneak attack and power attack, nobody EVER passed their saving throw.
Last edited by Human Paragon 3; 2011-10-28 at 01:04 PM.
Click the spoiler to see all the great games I design:
Spoiler
Who Beats Who? the hilariously geeky game of hypothetical battles.
Who has two thumbs (up) and a board game coming out from Rio Grande? This guy. Gladiators (Rio Grande)
PIZZA IN SPAAAAACE! Cambridge Games Facotry and Spoiled Flush Games Cosmic Pizza coming soon.
Matrix Solitaire, likely the best Solitaire game you will ever play.
Spoiled Flush Games
Twitter... where I talk about game design and beer.
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2011-10-29, 12:29 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
Re: Dex based fighter
Staggering strike is very sexy, not sure how ive never come across it before. However it makes taking that level in swordsage even less appealing due to a lost BAB. However im considering scrapping the UMD thing, its not overly important to the character, honestly i just play a lot of rogues and like having access to wands and such. this should free up some skill points and some gold i planned on spending on an item to increase UMD which could go towards Concentration ranks so perhaps i could live with only 1/2 ranks in it.
As for Rokugan ninja, looks cool but its apparently 3rd party so im not sure if my DM would allow that.
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2011-10-29, 05:40 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
Re: Dex based fighter
1.How are you adding dex to damage twice? All I'm seeing is Shadow Blade.
2.You're spending 3 feats on swordsage maneuvers of the 3 feats you're getting as a Fighter. At this point, you're almost literally better off taking Swordsage 5 than Fighter 5. Full BAB isn't worth nearly as much as Wis in light armor is, especially since Swordsage gives Weapon Focus for free, negating a part of the point of full BAB.
3.You're just generally better off taking Swordsage than Fighter for a Dex-based precision-like 'fighter' character.
4.Switching fighter to swordsage allows you to switch your int and wis and maintain the exact same skill points per level as you're currently getting, improving your will, AC, and strike damage(Later on, this includes stuff like Raging Mongoose).
5.If you do go Swordsage, Island of Blades isn't a great stance for him, compared to Child of Shadow(for defense) or Assassin's Stance(for offense, on average 7 damage). You can afford to keep all 3 in the build, allowing you to switch to whichever is most useful that round.Avatar by Assassin89
I started my first campaign around a campfire, having pancakes. They were blueberry.
My homebrew(updated 6/17):
SpoilerIn progress:
Prolonged Spell(Fix for Persistent spell)
Weapon Training(replaces Weapon Focus chain)
Shelved:
Ascendant Feats.[New content!]
Finished:
Belts of potionade
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2011-10-29, 05:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
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- Elsewhen
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Re: Dex based fighter
You could really use a Swordsage 1 dip to save yourself from taking the two martial feats. Swordsage 1 also gives weapon focus for a group of weapons. Whether or not that will allow you to qualify for other feats based on it is up to your DM. So, it could save you 3 feats for 1 level while also giving a bunch of maneuvers, boost to saves, and +1 to initiative.
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2011-10-29, 04:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
Re: Dex based fighter
The second instance of Dex to damage comes from The hit and run tactics variant of fighter from drow of the underdark, it applies only when my opponents are flat footed but the idea is for that to be most of the time anyway. however swordsage is starting to look better i think im going to rework the build taking swordsage levels and repost it. Greatly appreciate everyones input.
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2011-10-29, 05:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
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- Runite
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2011-10-29, 07:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
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- NZ
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Re: Dex based fighter
One of my favourite setups for a Dexterity warrior is something along the lines of taking feats like:
Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Spiked Chain
- 2 Levels in Wolf-Totem Barbarian for Improved Trip, with the Whirling Frenzy Variant
Knockdown
Extra Rage
Combat Expertise/Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack/Whirlwind Attack
Martial Study/Shadow Blade
Power attack
- Optional: Cleave/Great Cleave, Combat Reflexes
This is VERY feat heavy, (13 if you go all the way) so fighter levels are a great help, but what this does get you:
>Spiked chain for reach and the ability to attack enemies right beside you
>The ability to Power Attack everyone within 10 feet and if they take more then 10 damage you get a free trip attempt with a +4 modifier from Improved trip
>Dexterity to damage ( Dex to damage + Powerattack certifies your free trip attempt as long as you hit )
>Boost to AC and reflex saves as well as an extra attack per round from Whirling Frenzy
>Two-Handed Power attack damage because you can wield a spiked chain in both hands
If you go all the way you also get:
>Cleave enemies while they are on the ground and effectively have -4 AC for being prone
>Extra attacks as enemies get up, and then they can no-longer full attack on you, but you get to unleash knockdown on the AGAIN
If you get a friendly wizard to enlarge person on you your range increases to 20 feet....
Edit:
The extra attack from Whirling Frenzy is not usable in the same round as Whirlwind attack, but it does mean you get two chances to get your cleave going, or to knockdown one extra enemy per round
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2011-10-29, 07:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
Re: Dex based fighter
1.RAI seems fairly clear to me that those ACFs are for Drow. Talk to your DM to see if he'll let you take them anyway.
2.Regardless, as Dusk Eclipse has mentioned, dipping fighter on an otherwise swordsage chassis is quite a respectable build, and Fighter 1 is really all you're trying to get at.Avatar by Assassin89
I started my first campaign around a campfire, having pancakes. They were blueberry.
My homebrew(updated 6/17):
SpoilerIn progress:
Prolonged Spell(Fix for Persistent spell)
Weapon Training(replaces Weapon Focus chain)
Shelved:
Ascendant Feats.[New content!]
Finished:
Belts of potionade
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2011-10-29, 07:59 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
- Location
- Runite
- Gender
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2013-02-11, 12:10 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
Re: Dex based fighter
*casts Resurrection*
Maybe im missing it but with the UA sneak attack varient, you lose the bonus feats from being a fighter. or am i missing something?
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2013-02-11, 12:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
Re: Dex based fighter
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2013-02-11, 01:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2005
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Re: Dex based fighter
Sheriff: Please don't resurrect old threads or post in wrongly resurrected threads. Please see the Forum Rules on Thread Necromancy.