Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

[Kitten Champion]

Aren't Mortal Kombat characters at a higher tier than Street Fighter's? Granted I view Mortal Kombat as the kind of unnecessary 90's baggage that somehow kept enduring like Sonic the Hedgehog and Rob Liefeld, thus I plead a great deal of ignorance with regards to that franchise. However, as far as I'm aware - via cultural osmosis and whatnot - MK is about multi-verse hopping evil god-sorcerers, ghost-demon ninja, super-cyborgs from post-apocalyptic futures, and just over-the-top power-wise.

Street Fighter is more Jean-Claude Van Damme/Bruce Lee/James Bond action movie-stuff, albeit clearly hyperbolic and with weird superpowers/mystical abilities thrown in. Not realistic in any sense, but built on more grounded inspirations for its aesthetic and lore.

Basically, barring actually going through what their attacks look like visually speaking - since that can come heavily down to artistic license - isn't Sonya supposed to be more powerful than Cammy on a setting basis?

[Anteros]

Not really. The ultra powerful fighters are scaled down to "human" level during the tournament itself is my understanding.

[Seppl]

It's not the first Street Fighter vs Mortal Kombat battle they had. Akuma won convincingly against Shang Tsung. Shao Khan crushed M. Bison. Ryu lost against Scorpion, but only because he had no way of actually killing Scorpion for good. There may be an edge for the Mortal Kombat characters but not enough to decide the outcome of any matchup.

[McNum]

I haven't played the newer Mortal Kombats, so I don't remember too much about what Sonya can do, but I think it's all going to come down to Sonya's defenses against someone like Cammy. Because Cammy's fighting style is all out aggression. Her fighting style comes from Shadaloo, but Cammy holds it back somewhat after she broke free from their brainwashing. If she's pushed hard enough to let go of that, and come at Sonya in full Killer Bee mode... Sonya had better be extremely on point with her defense because Cammy will be coming from everywhere.

It's an interesting matchup, though. It could go either way. I do look forward to seeing where they're going to get their examples from. That's pretty much going to decide everything. If they source Street Fighter V's story mode, Cammy will be in trouble, since she only wins fights when you control her. Her cutscene power is... to get thrown around repeatedly.

[Seppl]

Sonya has the huge advantage of fatalities. Death Battle has regarded those as canon feats in past battles. As fatalities use comic book physics they can lead to rather ridiculous projections about a character's strength. Sonya is pretty tame compared to some of the other Mortal Kombat fighters but she is still ripping people apart or burns them to ash during fatalities, whereas Cammy's ultra combo move is just a jump, some punches and a choke hold.

[ChillerInstinct]

In MKX, Sonya has an attack drone that she uses in her fatalities (and, I THINK, one of her variations is focused around it, though I never played it and it's been a while since I've watched a Sonya fight). One that's armed with missiles, lasers, AND automatic fire. That thing along is probably enough to win the fight for her.

The funny thing is, before MKX I might have given Cammy the edge. She's certainly much faster than Sonya, probably stronger too outside of the fatalities. But if Sonya's given access to that type of weaponry? No contest.

[McNum]

I'd hold that Cammy has the speed advantage, though. And don't underestimate a choke hold against a human opponent.

As for sources, I wonder if they're going to include Cannon Spike. No, not the move. That's obviously going to be there. I mean the game. Being able to kick through tank armor seems like the kind of thing they'd get all over putting numbers on. And of course dual wielding machine pistols. It might be a little too spinoff-ish to count, though.

[Xihirli]

the avatar verse is just solidly below the naruto verse in power levels.

Until Korra decided to give the Avatar the power to turn into a giant blue angel-thing that could duel with Demons, anyway.

[Devonix]

Cammy takes this easily. Street fighter characters stomp all over the MK kast of karacters. Other than people like raiden shao khan and the other deities

[ChillerInstinct]

So I found a nice comprehensive compilation of all of Sonya's fatalities. She has:

- Blown fireballs manifesting as kisses that strip people to the bone (see: Chun-li vs. Mai for how Death Battle has treated similar attacks against SF characters)
- Blown purple energy fields manifesting as kisses that cause people to explode
- Split people in half with scissor kicks
- Blown purple gases manifesting as kisses (my GOD MK loved that trope back in the day, didn't they?) that cause people to vomit until they die, following by stomping them hard enough to make their heads explode
- Snapped necks with acrobatics, much like Cammy's CQC ultra
- Garroted people with enough force to decapitate them
- The aforementioned attack drone
- Whatever the heck the fatalities are from MK Armageddon, though those are probably not factored in

Also, I was right, her Special Forces variation gives her the drone.

Now, I was never an MK person back in the 90s, but aside from the blown kisses and garrote, aren't most of these moves actually just extra-powered versions of moves from her moveset? So we can't even wave them away with "fatalities are overblown".

The fact that Sonya has a neck snap is particularly worrisome for Cammy's chances, since that counters any chance of her CQC Ultra being the deciding factor.

[Traab]

Until Korra decided to give the Avatar the power to turn into a giant blue angel-thing that could duel with Demons, anyway.

True, but really, the avatar is the only one that can punch in end game naruto power levels. Pre shippuden I would put them on similar power levels for the most part, but the power creep is utterly absurd after the timeskip and during the big final war.

[Devonix]

I'm actually really surpised that a lot of you think that Sonya has a chance. General versus consensus has always been that the streetfighter universe stomps on MK in terms of character power and ability.

Most of the cast are vastly superhuman in comparison to the MK characters. I mean Cammy's Fast enough to keep up with a car speeding down a highway while on foot, Strong enough to kick people through steel reinforced doors and trains. Agile enough to dodge point blank automatic weapons fire. Durable enough to get blasted through several cars crunching them in the process, and fall out of a 3 story building.

And even then Cammy's only in about mid teir in terms of SF strength.

Cammy's a genetically engineered super soldier with enhanced strength, speed, reflexes and even then she's only about mid level in the SF Universe.

Sonya's pretty much just a regular, albeit strong human with some tech, and no the kiss of Death shouldn't be allowed, Fatalities that go against established abilities would make Cyrax capable of blowing up the planet, or let Lui Kang summon arcade cabinets. Sonya has no supernatural abilities and can't summon fire from thin air.

[Seppl]

Sonya's pretty much just a regular, albeit strong human with some tech, and no the kiss of Death shouldn't be allowed, Fatalities that go against established abilities would make Cyrax capable of blowing up the planet, or let Lui Kang summon arcade cabinets. Sonya has no supernatural abilities and can't summon fire from thin air.

But half the fun of Death Battle is that they take these scenes, that are just the animator going crazy, at face value. That is how you get conclusions like Kirby being stronger than Majin Buu or Princess Peach kicking Zelda's head off. You can bet they will acknowledge Sonya's fatalities.

[Maryring]

I love how there's absolutely no discussion about the previous match. Just speculation for the next one. That's what happens when no one really cares about either of the fighters.

[Devonix]

But half the fun of Death Battle is that they take these scenes, that are just the animator going crazy, at face value. That is how you get conclusions like Kirby being stronger than Majin Buu or Princess Peach kicking Zelda's head off. You can bet they will acknowledge Sonya's fatalities.

But Kirby is stronger than majin buu at least physically. And as for Peach vs Zelda. Kicking off her head is something she should easily be able to do, though not because of the soccer thing. Peach and the mario universe are just so much physically stronger, and faster than the Zelda characters it isn't even funny.

As for discussion of the previous fight, this is what happens when the creators of two characters decide who should win. They made and own both characters so why would you argue with or even compare notes on the fight.

[Anonymouswizard]

I love how there's absolutely no discussion about the previous match. Just speculation for the next one. That's what happens when no one really cares about either of the fighters.

I tend to get excited about Death Battle even when I don't know the characters, it only amps up when I have a personal investment in one or more. The statistical analysis they attempt can also be interesting, although sometimes strange.

The problem here is that the two characters are both from a series I couldn't care less about, don't recognise the characters at all, and are both owned by the producers. Also, I managed to get about 30 seconds into the video before I just got annoyed and turned it off, because I don't care about any framing devices using a series I may or may not have seen, I want to get straight into the introduction of the characters (which is one of the things I can never really fault them for, the opens are almost always engaging). The video is blatantly cross promotion, and I think nobody would have cared if it was an extra video, but it took up an actual update that could have been used for Cammy versus Sonya (I have no investment in either character, but it at least seems like it'll be a more interesting fight), or literally any other matchup. I think we'd been getting more discussion if they hadn't used two characters from the same series, but as it is there's the same level of connection as if we had been given 'who would win, Gordon Freeman versus the Combine'*.

*as a side note, I'd love to see Freeman take on Master Chief (Petty Officer John-117). It would be interesting to see who wins, considering the two seem to face the same kind of problem.

[ChillerInstinct]

I love how there's absolutely no discussion about the previous match. Just speculation for the next one. That's what happens when no one really cares about either of the fighters.

The fact that both combatants from the same series doesn't help matters. You can't even have the arguments over whether Magic X would work in the rules of Universe Y, etc. I mean, look at the discussion for Sonya vs. Cammy in the past 24 hours, we've been debating whether Fatalities are canon/should be counted and how much it would impact the results. You don't get that when both fighters are in the same universe and as such EVERYTHING counts.

I mean, the fight itself was pretty cool, and the analysis and epilogue were entertaining enough, but it's not really the type of thing that fosters discussion.

As for sources, I wonder if they're going to include Cannon Spike. No, not the move. That's obviously going to be there. I mean the game. Being able to kick through tank armor seems like the kind of thing they'd get all over putting numbers on. And of course dual wielding machine pistols. It might be a little too spinoff-ish to count, though.

Huh. Well, I can't say I knew THAT existed. Though the problem is, if they factor in crossovers, then they'd have to include MK vs. DC Universe, and we ALL know what that means...

[SKarious]

*as a side note, I'd love to see Freeman take on Master Chief (Petty Officer John-117). It would be interesting to see who wins, considering the two seem to face the same kind of problem.

Considering Freeman's armor, equipment and abilities are weaker than Doomguy's, this will be a very one-sided battle.

[ChillerInstinct]

Considering Freeman's armor, equipment and abilities are weaker than Doomguy's, this will be a very one-sided battle.

Side note: I'd love to see a Remaster of that fight now that Doom 4 was a thing. Don't know if it would change the outcome much, but it's one of the fights that aged the most poorly, and after the spectacle of the new Doom game, giving it the Samus vs. Boba Fett treatment would probably look GORGEOUS.

[Devonix]

The fact that both combatants from the same series doesn't help matters. You can't even have the arguments over whether Magic X would work in the rules of Universe Y, etc. I mean, look at the discussion for Sonya vs. Cammy in the past 24 hours, we've been debating whether Fatalities are canon/should be counted and how much it would impact the results. You don't get that when both fighters are in the same universe and as such EVERYTHING counts.

I mean, the fight itself was pretty cool, and the analysis and epilogue were entertaining enough, but it's not really the type of thing that fosters discussion.



Huh. Well, I can't say I knew THAT existed. Though the problem is, if they factor in crossovers, then they'd have to include MK vs. DC Universe, and we ALL know what that means...

The difference is that Cannon spike isn't a crossover. It's an in continuity event for the characters. The same way Ikari Warriors is for the KOF world. It's just something that happened.

MK vs DC is completely noncanon

[Anonymouswizard]

Considering Freeman's armor, equipment and abilities are weaker than Doomguy's, this will be a very one-sided battle.

You're saying that as if power level counts at all here I'm sure that they can pull out come calculation that allows the gravity gun to throw Master Chief around or something, probably out of someone's rear or something, but that's not the point.

The point is I want to see what would happen in such an encounter, as Freeman seems to be somewhere between 'barely competent' and 'able to take out significantly more power threats almost singlehandedly'. But if you can think of a better opponent for the One Free Man, please suggest it, because I think it would be interesting to see what the Death Battle team make of his arsenal.

[SKarious]

I'd say fatalities should be possible. But like in the game, could only be used while the opponent is weakened or stunned long enough. An aware opponent won't stand still long enough to let you put a grenade in his mouth, or what have you.
Same things happened in Ivy vs. Orchid fight: using finishing moves on a non-dizzied opponents resulted in the move failing to kill.

[Lord Raziere]

I love how there's absolutely no discussion about the previous match. Just speculation for the next one. That's what happens when no one really cares about either of the fighters.

Well technically I care about the fight, as I watched the entirety of Red Vs Blue.

and really it was a very even fight to my POV. Both characters have similar advantages and weaknesses. The difference was that despite all of the Meta's power, he couldn't use it as effectively as Carolina, even if you could technically say that he was more powerful on paper.

[Forum Explorer]

You're saying that as if power level counts at all here I'm sure that they can pull out come calculation that allows the gravity gun to throw Master Chief around or something, probably out of someone's rear or something, but that's not the point.

The point is I want to see what would happen in such an encounter, as Freeman seems to be somewhere between 'barely competent' and 'able to take out significantly more power threats almost singlehandedly'. But if you can think of a better opponent for the One Free Man, please suggest it, because I think it would be interesting to see what the Death Battle team make of his arsenal.

How about the PoV character from Bioshock? The first one.

[Mato]

But Kirby is stronger than majin buu at least physically.

I sincerely doubt that.

Death Battle threw a fit over Kirby being able to throw a cooking pot into space. But after inhaling some air Kirby floats on water. Even if he were as heavy as steel and perfectly cubed to eight inches instead of spherical that only comes out to 0.2kg or 6,580,000,000 joules for something around his size to be thrown into space. Since even Death Battle admitted a Dragonball's defense is proportional to his ki and Buu blew up the Earth we know Buu can easily handle 224,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 joules. Even if you claimed the pot was one billion times heavier than Kirby you are still off by over a quadrillion in magnitudes. And since Death Battle used other known characters to scale Toph's abilities we can always do the same with Buu, did you know Cell can blow up our entire solar system?

And as for Peach vs Zelda. Kicking off her head is something she should easily be able to do, though not because of the soccer thing. Peach and the mario universe are just so much physically stronger, and faster than the Zelda characters it isn't even funny.

Zeldaverse is pretty much a place where people are invincible to all but one thing and Zelda can create one hit kill arrows. She can also restrain a beast capable of shattering reinforced stone that'd take Mario a couple dozen jumps to break through if it were mortared brick putting her nearly invincible barrier work well above Peach's kicking power.

Death Battle is an entertainment show that is willing to use negative publicity to get their name out there. It's not that they are always wrong, but even a random number generator will correctly answer a math problem every now and then. The only vs fight that I'd consider to truly be accurate is their newest one since Roosterteeth owns Screwattack, which is also why no one is really debating that. It was accurate, well done, created by the same people that created Red vs Blue and both characters that fought it out, and the world building in the show already ranked Carolina well above Maine making it a contest of his stolen tech vs her skill and sane AI.

[Anteros]

Well technically I care about the fight, as I watched the entirety of Red Vs Blue.

and really it was a very even fight to my POV. Both characters have similar advantages and weaknesses. The difference was that despite all of the Meta's power, he couldn't use it as effectively as Carolina, even if you could technically say that he was more powerful on paper.

I watched all of RvB too, but that was because I cared about the characters and enjoyed the humor. A deathmatch between the 2 characters with the least personality in the entire series isn't something I'm interested in. I got tired of generic Halo characters in mindless fight choreography with no plot attached about halfway through season 10.

Plus, it's their characters. If they say that one wins over the other, who are we to argue? There's nothing to talk about.

[Devonix]

I sincerely doubt that.



Zeldaverse is pretty much a place where people are invincible to all but one thing and Zelda can create one hit kill arrows. She can also restrain a beast capable of shattering reinforced stone that'd take Mario a couple dozen jumps to break through if it were mortared brick putting her nearly invincible barrier work well above Peach's kicking power.

Nearly every character in the Mario universe has displayed Strength, Speed, and Durability far far beyond anything in the Zelda Continuity. Mario Casually tosses around building sized foes on a regular basis. Zelda's punted Bowser hundreds of miles with a single blow. These people have displayed city destroying feats on multiple occasions. Zelda doesn't create One hit Kill Arrows. She creates Light arrows which negate, or bypass Ganon's protective magic. It's not that Ganon is invincible, it's that in order to damage him, you have to get around the curse of Demise.

[Mato]

Mario Casually tosses around building sized foes on a regular basis.

But can't break stone without a hammer.

In Galaxy Deku Scrubs appear pretty large compared to Mario, in the karting games real-life cars are significant larger than the characters, artistically Mario's world is so small scale flowers, bean stalks, mushrooms, turtles, turnips, and penguins are huge. You think Mario is close to human sized because Smash Brothers mashed them up so but SSB isn't exactly known for be accurate on scale. So when you say Mario-sized buildings I think of something I'd stub my toe on in the middle of the night.

Debate about size or punching aside. Zelda is primarily a highly intelligent and paragon of wisdom reincarnated deity with a pirate-ninja-knight multi-lifetime benevolent ruler focused on magic archery with a knack in teleportation, barriers, time travel, and astral projection into animated objects - and that's just canonical/continuity sources - that was forcibly cast as a simple fighter. Peach, even unfairly granted none-continuity game powers, should never have even gotten close enough to kick her in the first place. It's like a terrible splat-barbarian vs core-only cleric debate centralized on exactly what kind of circumstances does it take in order for the barbarian to actually have a chance. And the answer is: only on Death Battle.

She creates Light arrows which negate, or bypass Ganon's protective magic.

They work on everyone you can attack which even includes unintelligent creatures that don't even care who Ganonndorf is. They also appear to be a transmutation effect. In the game where they are not hard-coded one-hit-kills they are armor-piercing and always cause the enemy to drop exactly fifty rupees on death.

Zelda's punted Bowser hundreds of miles with a single blow.

[Traab]

Pretty sure he meant peach, or maybe mario, I dunno, I havent been into mario games since the super nintendo so ive missed a lot. Its easy to confuse names when you switch back and forth like that. Also, I think the main point was to show that both sides have ludicrous feats which, when taken in a vacuum, would suggest absurd levels of power. But as you say, he needs a hammer to break stone, while flinging building sized bad guys that are multiple times his size.

[Dragonus45]

It's not the first Street Fighter vs Mortal Kombat battle they had. Akuma won convincingly against Shang Tsung. Shao Khan crushed M. Bison. Ryu lost against Scorpion, but only because he had no way of actually killing Scorpion for good. There may be an edge for the Mortal Kombat characters but not enough to decide the outcome of any matchup.

The Ryu one still doesn't make sense to me. I feel like the hadoken and street fighter in general have more than enough mysticism floating around them to qualify.