OOTS #883 - The Discussion Thread

[TRH]

Durkon probably still has whatever spells he was granted this morning. He probably will need to change deities to get more, though.

I doubt a priest of Thor gets spells that can summon fiends.

Edit: @Another Poet: Wasn't necessarily assuming Hel was evil, but she is a death god who doesn't have any priests, and that's been a theory round here for a while now. Personally, I thought it would humanize Durkula a bit to still have to deal with a ditzy Northern God when praying for spells, which would be nice.

[Mutant Sheep]

Ohhh, demons! And Durkula is too helpful.

(Tarquin - Nale banter comically one sided, as usual.)

[Silverionmox]

Well, it's certainly convenient that Durkon kept the receipts of his spells so he could exchange them for more fashionable ones in the store.

[Chad30]

Most likely. Considering that the Ancient Black Dragon was...ancient, she likely had a whole lot of ancestors to slaughter.

decendants.

I don't really see Nale's insult being towards z, more than Q'arr. Z may still take it personally, though.

Durkon got a spell that summons an extra planar ally. Who are his allies now? fiends.

[The Pilgrim]

Who said the opposites theme is over? Spellcaster-only party against party with no spellcasters.

So, Tarquin is off to rendezvous with the rest of his pals? shoulder pad guy, ice mage, tigress-woman and stones-girl.

[Another_Poet]

I saw it as more Qarr twisting the knife in V's chest even more.

Ditto. Taunts and insults by imps should generally have [citation needed] at the end of them.

Nale appears to be digging his own grave by being all haughty towards Zz'dtri like that. Way to potentially alienate the last person in the group who might have residual loyalty towards you

I dunno, mocking an evil spellcaster's familiar? Would Zz'dtri even care? He probably treats Quarr about as well as Tarquin treats a butler. The last evil spellcaster I played named his undead eagle familiar "Mistake."

He outlived us all.

edit: Ah, Zz'dtri is frowning though. Hmm.

[Chad30]

Didn't you hear? Elan is a spellcaster (who doesn't count).

[Silva Stormrage]

The author has artistic license to play fast and loose with D&D rules but vampire Durkon casting evil spells this soon is going too far. I doubt the story even needs a spellcasting vampire Durkon. Team Nale already has a divine and an arcane caster and Durkon no longer with OotS is itself a devastating blow.

Actually no this is allowed in the rules. Durkon doesn't lose the spells he prepared in the morning and he already had planar ally prepared as mentioned earlier.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/planarAllyLesser.htm

Planar ally doesn't require you to specify what creature you are summoning ahead of time. Durkon doesn't even NEED a god for it, he could just do a general plea for evil outsiders.

[Needle]

HEY! History isn't over yet mister!!

So Qarr will be the one heading V to the party? That smells pretty bad

[TRH]

Durkon got a spell that summons an extra planar ally. Who are his allies now? fiends.

Good point, but that spell has a ten-minute casting time. There might have been a skip there, but I'm not sure I see it. Still, anything for a little false hope!

As for Z, I don't see him hanging Nale out to dry unless he really has to. He's shown a lot of dedication sticking with the guy for as long as he has, and being a member of the Linear Guild ensures that he'll get chances to off V on a regular basis, which seems to be his primary goal at the moment. Since I don't see V dying to the LG, Z probably won't get an opportunity to turn coat.

[Mutant Sheep]

Who said the opposites theme is over? Spellcaster-only party against party with no spellcasters.

So, Tarquin is off to rendezvous with the rest of his pals? shoulder pad guy, ice mage, tigress-woman and stones-girl.

Well, Nale did. (I feel Shaaaaame)

Likely. I think Qarr is going to have a good old "You need to fight the Evil, Vaarsuvius". Blackwing will question why, but Vaarsuvius will realize he needs to help. Yay speculating!

[hamishspence]

The author has artistic license to play fast and loose with D&D rules but vampire Durkon casting evil spells this soon is going too far.

The SRD:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm

seems to go with: Vampire clerics immediately gain new domains, replacing their old ones (and thus, logically, a new patron deity).

Clerics
Vampire clerics lose their ability to turn undead but gain the ability to rebuke undead. This ability does not affect the vampire’s controller or any other vampires that a master controls. A vampire cleric has access to two of the following domains: Chaos, Destruction, Evil, or Trickery.

[Lord Raziere]

Hm, I thought that Nale would be more attached to the Evil Opposites theme. No matter.

No look at the OOTS:

Roy
Belkar
Haley
Elan.

They are all some form of physical fighting type.

The Linear Guild are still evil opposites. its just that Nale doesn't realize that "four evil spell casters" count as evil opposites to "four good dashing fighters"

[Waspinator]

It's probably a Planar Ally or Summon Monster type spell that he was previously planning to use to summon a Celestial animal of some kind. You don't have to pick what you summon until you cast it, so now he picked some kind of fiend.

[Shred-Bot]

Infinite channels with nothing on.....

And everything goes to commercial just as you flip to that channel.

Also: helpful Durkon is ADORABLE. (And still has spells! I wonder if they are still Thor's or if Nergal just processes new employees quickly...)

[rewinn]

Whoops, left Kilkil out of Panel #4. Fixed now.

Dang! the Forum missed out on an orgy of speculation over how Kilkil can make himself invisible (I maintain that it should be an innate ability of his bureaucrat prestige class ;-)

Two things:

2. If V *is* history's worst mass murderer, then Haerta must have never actually used Familiacide....

Or perhaps Qarr is a liar. Could it be?

After all, is Blackwing *really* dimwitted? Bird-brained yes ...

So... whatever Tarquin's up to, it is something that requires Kilkil? I wonder what that could be?

Perhaps Tarquin's the sort of lawful that requires the proper forms be filled out: treasure taken, XPs gained, maps drawn on graph paper 10 feet to the square. In other words: a gamer!

[Rorrik]

Is it wrong that I find Blackwing hilarious on such a sad topic?

Absolutely not. It was probably the best he could do to countermand the fiend logically. Any other contrary statement to what the fiend said would not be true. The absolute logic of the response is hilarious. That is my favorite kind of humor.

[Snails]

I doubt a priest of Thor gets spells that can summon fiends.

Edit: @Another Poet: Wasn't necessarily assuming Hel was evil, but she is a death god who doesn't have any priests, and that's been a theory round here for a while now. Personally, I thought it would humanize Durkula a bit to still have to deal with a ditzy Northern God when praying for spells, which would be nice.

It would be nice, but it would also be a huge drag, unless the peculiarities of Durkula are really so important. Instant conversion to a new deity does not quite make sense, but it is a lot more fun.

In most cases, a Summon Monster N spell is just a spell. The cleric only has to please his god by making an allowed choice when cast. Durkon intended to cast something nice, but Durkula ended up choosing otherwise.

[Another_Poet]

says...

"Just four spellcasters under my command..."

Four?

I count (as does Tarquin) "two vampire clerics and a [dark elf] wizard." Who is the fourth?

Unless Kilkil can cast, but he's staying back with Tarquin.

[Waspinator]

Actually, didn't Durkon say earlier his plan to guard the gate was to summon some celestials? That's probably the spell he used just now.

[Grey Watcher]

Oh, Blackwing. I think that might possibly be the WORST possible retort, given the circumstances.

[hamishspence]

You don't have to pick what you summon until you cast it, so now he picked some kind of fiend.

While it hasn't been specified, the tail, roughly Medium size, and spikes, has lead to the speculation that Durkon's fiend is a hamatala or "barbed devil" from MM.

Z's fiend looks vaguely lobster-ish. Piscoloth from Fiend Folio (a book that's already been referenced once in-strip) seems to me the most likely candidate.

[stsasser]

No look at the OOTS:

Roy
Belkar
Haley
Elan.

They are all some form of physical fighting type.

The Linear Guild are still evil opposites. its just that Nale doesn't realize that "four evil spell casters" count as evil opposites to "four good dashing fighters"

...hrmmm...

[Chad30]

And everything goes to commercial just as you flip to that channel.

Also: helpful Durkon is ADORABLE. (And still has spells! I wonder if they are still Thor's or if Nergal just processes new employees quickly...)

Yeah, that's how you do it. Turn on a channel, and see something interesting for a second, then it goes to commercial for however long you stay on the channel.

[The Giant]

The author has artistic license to play fast and loose with D&D rules but vampire Durkon casting evil spells this soon is going too far.

You know, you're right. I have gone too far this time. I'll stop making new strips now. Everyone, go home. The comic is over. My bad, I went too far.



Tell you what, you read the vampire template entry, particularly the part where it explicitly says that vampire clerics can still cast spells just with different domain access, and you tell me where it says anything about gods or temporary loss of access there. It doesn't. Vampire clerics do not need to worship a god to cast spells, because NO cleric needs a god to cast spells. The rules specifically allow for "non-theistic" clerics, and explains exactly what the effects of turning into a vampire has on a cleric: Rebuke instead of Turn, different domains. Period.

The only thing worse than the usual irrelevant rules pedantry is incorrect irrelevant rules pedantry.

[TRH]

Oh, Blackwing. I think that might possibly be the WORST possible retort, given the circumstances.

I know, Blackwing's social skills are almost as bad as V's own, am I right?

[Another_Poet]

Edit: @Another Poet: Wasn't necessarily assuming Hel was evil, but she is a death god who doesn't have any priests, and that's been a theory round here for a while now. Personally, I thought it would humanize Durkula a bit to still have to deal with a ditzy Northern God when praying for spells, which would be nice.

Fair 'nuff

[Morty]

Quarr hasn't exactly had a lot of luck dealing with Blackwing. Maybe he'll get outsmarted by the bird super-advanced flying stealth dinosaur again.

[B. Dandelion]

I dunno, mocking an evil spellcaster's familiar? Would Zz'dtri even care? He probably treats Quarr about as well as Tarquin treats a butler. The last evil spellcaster I played named his undead eagle familiar "Mistake."

Under the circumstances, is it wise to take the risk either way?

Granted, Zz'dtri might not care. The entire purpose of the interaction may have been just to play up Nale's feelings for Sabine plus the Description Cut gag. But it does seem pointlessly antagonistic.

says...



Four?

I count (as does Tarquin) "two vampire clerics and a [dark elf] wizard." Who is the fourth?

I guess himself?

[Risiez]

When Nale said "Four spellcasters" I was like: "Oh crap, maybe Kilkil's actually some kind of crazy powerful spellcaster and we didn't know it."

And then I realized "Oh wait, he's counting his own limpdick, multiclassed enchantment-based sorcerer powers."