Theory: the Snarl IS the gates *spoilers?*

[KingRevange]

Hey everybody, I'm reading here occasionally and always wanted to post this idea of mine, but I thought someone will eventually do this himself...

I'll try to be scientific. If I'm wrong, do correct me.

a. The Snarl is made of, or lives inside, some sort of tangled threads. Not to be mistaken with the straight thread-like things that imprisoned it.

b. Those threads are made of "reality" (aka "univesre", "world", etc).

c. The gates have the same color as the Snarl.

d. When the Snarl was active, it tore the world apart (supported by the fact it's a chaotic creature). It didn't create something, It destroyed or manipulated existence.

e. We know that the gates are connected to the Snarl (holes in it's prison).

f. Every time the Snarl attacked someone in the strips, the victim was "touched" by a whirlwind of purple palette colors (colored claws killed soon's wife; laurin's psychic was answered by some sort of a mental attack that made her eyes purple; followed right after that by a burst of colors out of the gate). This strengthens my argument about the gates connection to the Snarl: They are actually a part of it's body.

I don't know what lies inside of those gates (maybe they're just teleport gates that lead to other places in the world), And I'm okay with that.

[Bulldog Psion]

Yes, that's an interesting theory. You're right that the colors of the gates do match up pretty well to those of the Snarl -- I don't think I've ever seen anyone point out that specific detail before.

And yes, I suppose those could be teleport gates to other points on the OotS world rather than a separate "Snarl World." That may be their own planet they're looking at there -- perhaps from a teleport gate on the moon?

After all, the entire thing about that being a separate world depends on Blackwing knowing what their world looks like, which may be quite unlikely. It's doubtful that anyone alive in 1400 would recognize the Earth from space, for example, even if they knew it was a world.

[ti'esar]

After all, the entire thing about that being a separate world depends on Blackwing knowing what their world looks like, which may be quite unlikely. It's doubtful that anyone alive in 1400 would recognize the Earth from space, for example, even if they knew it was a world.

Except that we've seen both the OOTS world and the riftworld from space, and they're clearly not the same. The riftworld has those giant ice cap things and very different-looking continents.

[KingRevange]

Except that we've seen both the OOTS world and the riftworld from space, and they're clearly not the same. The riftworld has those giant ice cap things and very different-looking continents.

That's an interesting point-out. can you show me the differences (maybe link to different strips)?

[ti'esar]

OOTS world

Riftworld

[KingRevange]

OOTS world

Riftworld

Thank you very much sire;
...the oots world seems to have an ice cap (at least one) and 2 continents. maybe it's the same world from a different angle/date?

[Bulldog Psion]

OOTS world

Riftworld

Thanks! I'd entirely forgotten that we'd seen the OotS planet in that "space view" for Familicide.

[Murk]

Thanks! I'd entirely forgotten that we'd seen the OotS planet in that "space view" for Familicide.

It's just one side of the planet. Sure, they talk about the continents as if they're the only ones, but who knows what kind of forgotten continent lies on the other side?

Wouldn't it be extremely lame if the gates just lead back to the same world, just the other half, and there is a moralistic message like "the Snarl was at your world all along! It is the hate inside your hearts!" at the end of the story?

[KingRevange]

It's just one side of the planet. Sure, they talk about the continents as if they're the only ones, but who knows what kind of forgotten continent lies on the other side?

Wouldn't it be extremely lame if the gates just lead back to the same world, just the other half, and there is a moralistic message like "the Snarl was at your world all along! It is the hate inside your hearts!" at the end of the story?

It only depends on the giant's storytelling skills. You can always describe that in a lousy way. A lot of situations in this comic could've got super cliche and stupid - but sire Burlew's storytelling skill made them very deep and unique.

The Snarl could be an integral part of this world, without shallowing the plot or making the characters boring.

We strayed from the original purpose of this thread - do you think the Snarl and the gates are one (or made from the same thing)?

[theasl]

Also, the world inside of Girard's gate had no signs of life (fish, specifically, since it was over the ocean). I doubt that it's the same as the OOTS world.

[KingRevange]

Also, the world inside of Girard's gate had no signs of life (fish, specifically, since it was over the ocean). I doubt that it's the same as the OOTS world.

Hey, maybe you're right, BUT, what was that thing who attacked Laurin through her eyes/mind? that was a THING! I think what you say supports my opinion - whatever lies beyond the gates is deserted and abandoned. the gates themselves are sentiment or actually parts of the Snarl's body.

Another option here is that each time we see the rift world, we only see what the character's wanted/meant to see - Laurin's living in a desert. What will see want, most of anything? water! Maybe it's the same with blackwing (I don't have an idea). Maybe the Snarl shows everyone what it wants them to see... Maybe inside of those gates there's nothing. Maybe the Snarl is made of pieces of reality, and that's why we think it's a world and not a creature. Maybe it's just it's body and it shows us illusions or weird truths...

It was state that the Snarl was caged in a prison in her own body measures - so no rift world really exists there. I don't know why it's like that.

[ti'esar]

The ocean, at least, isn't an illusion - there's water visible splashing through the Gate in 945 along with the Snarl's tendrils.

[KingRevange]

The ocean, at least, isn't an illusion - there's water visible splashing through the Gate in 945 along with the Snarl's tendrils.

Hee, you're right! I didn't see that before... But you can't ignore the fact that Laurin's daughter is a plumber and she saw an ocean. I'm sure it means something.

AAAnd plus, nobody said there's nothing in there. Just "no fish".

[hamishspence]

Roy & company saw an ocean as well:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0900.html

[KingRevange]

Roy & company saw an ocean as well:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0900.html

Thus, it wasn't base on a specific character who looks beyond the gate. Thank you for bringing that up.

Belkar said "maybe someone's been yanking everyone's chain". As with Durkula, I begin to trust Belkar's "feminine intuition"... We don't pay much attention for belkar's "feelings". I felt from the beginning that he's lack of complexity makes him very keen and precise.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

I've always figured the Snarl is made up of the same kind of threads as the gates because the Snarl is made up of the same kind of threads as the gates. They're holes in the world, woven from the same threads of existence as the Snarl was. Yeah, those threads are tangled rather than straight, but that's what threads do when you start unraveling and/or breaking them to create a hole in the fabric they are part of.

As for the planet, who knows what has been going on in Snarl-world. It could be anything from a simple illusion (with splashy water effects, probably not) to lure people in to a planet created by a reformed Snarl (probably not either), wiser and friendlier after having been sunk in thought for eons.

I'm not sure if the Giant ever spoke out to say riftworld is not stickworld prime (I think he did say it wasn't our own earth), but I kind of assumed that half the reason for that familicide shot was to establish a bit better that the geography of stickworld prime (a western continent for the western gods and a longer continent divided between the northern and southern pantheons, with no eastern continent because those gods were killed before the creation of this world) was in fact different from what we've seen of riftworld. If it is somehow the same planet we're seeing at least one completely unknown (to us readers at the very least) continent there, probably two, and they seem to both be large enough to reach all the way to the other side of the planet on both ends, which means they should be visible in a shot from the other side. The scrying for life thing I figure was also meant partly to establish that "no, this is not their own world nor is it ours and some weird **** is going on here".

Just my 2 cents of course.

[KingRevange]

So you say the Snarl is made from threads, and the gates are also made from the same fabric, but this "coincidence" doesn't mean that they're the same? You probably base your argument on the idea that everything in the stickworld is made from those threads of reality, so what I said sounded like "THE SNARL IS THE WORLD, WAIT A MINUTE" (WHICH is a great idea, but it doesn't mean much for us. too hypothetical). Hmm.

1. I believe this "holes" are a hoax, based on Belkar's assumption (I believe him because I think he can't make things up. Even his "alignment lie" wasn't a real lie. He really changed inside). I don't know if the hoax is about the world or about the existence of life there or something else, but what we see, to my opinion, isn't true and was stated canonically by one of the six main characters.

2. The Snarl attacks through the gates but it always seems like the gates attack through the gates. I can't believe the snarl just waits at the other side like a big goblin or a dragon.

[lothos]

OOTS world

Riftworld

They do look pretty different. However we are only looking at one hemisphere in the case of Riftworld and about half a hemisphere in the case of OOTS world. It's just possible (though probably unlikely) that the two worlds do have the same layout of continents, but we are looking at different sides of the world.

For this to work, the large ice cap visible in Riftworld would have to be at the "bottom" on the OOTS world view and the land masses we see in Riftworld be on the opposite side to those we are familiar with in OOTS world.

For what it's worth, I personally think they are different planets, but Rich often surprises us (well, at least he surprises me...) in this story, so I wouldn't discount the possibility that we are being led to think they are different worlds, when in reality, they are somehow the same world.. or "photocopies" of the same world.. or the same world at different points in time... or something else we are not expecting.

[Gift Jeraff]

I've always figured the Snarl is made up of the same kind of threads as the gates because the Snarl is made up of the same kind of threads as the gates.

The Gates were made by Lirian and Dorukan out of some kind of crystal. If you mean the open rifts, Rich has referred to those purple thread-like things as "cracks."

[Lvl 2 Expert]

So you say the Snarl is made from threads, and the gates are also made from the same fabric, but this "coincidence" doesn't mean that they're the same?

No, because it's explicitly not a coincidence. It's the back story of the whole comic. The gods went weaving a world from the threads of reality, a know in those threads became the Snarl, the gods used the threads they had left (or maybe they made new ones, they're the same type of threads either way) to make a new world that also functioned as a prison for the Snarl.

O, sure, the backstory could be a lie or a misunderstanding, those cracks or threads or colorful thingies could be part of the Snarl, but the fact that they look the same is not in any way evidence for that, they're supposed to look the same according to the official story behind them. And if the scribble story is that far of, why is there even still a Snarl? can't we just use anything we can think of as an explanation, like it's the artist's little brother coloring on the back of his work and occasionally scribbling right through the paper?

I also think you're putting a lot of faith in Belkar who looks through a rift for the first time, having a lot less information than we do, and theorizes that someone might be ****ing with him. It's kind of how he generally thinks about other people. And then you use that to come to a conclusion that the character in question never voiced.

[theasl]

AAAnd plus, nobody said there's nothing in there. Just "no fish".

No, Laurin's quote is "I've been telepathically scanning into this hole and I haven't even sensed any fish" (emphasis mine). Which means she was expecting a lot more than fish (which I will assume in the D&D world is the most basic aquatic creature), but didn't even find those.

[dtilque]

I think some participants (including the OP) in this thread are confusing the rifts with the gates. These are not the same thing.

Rifts are flaws in the fabric of reality. They occured because even though the various gods agreed to cooperate in building World 2.0, there was still a bit of conflict.

The gates are structures built around the rifts (after the rifts had been sealed) to strengthen the fabric of reality because the sealed rifts were weak spots that might come undone. (Guessing here) Apparently the gates are too rigid and don't let the fabric of reality flex in their locations. Thus tensions and stress build up in them. When they are destroyed, these tensions and stresses are released all at once and cause a large explosion. The rift they were supporting is retorn and spreads even more than it was before.

If the order ever has the chance to fix the rifts, they're going to have to come up with something better than the gates.

[KingRevange]

I think some participants (including the OP) in this thread are confusing the rifts with the gates. These are not the same thing.

Rifts are flaws in the fabric of reality. They occured because even though the various gods agreed to cooperate in building World 2.0, there was still a bit of conflict.

According to this line of thinking, what is the Snarl to you?

[Peelee]

According to this line of thinking, what is the Snarl to you?

It's less a line of thinking and more a fact.

[littlebum2002]

According to this line of thinking, what is the Snarl to you?

The Snarl can't POSSIBLY be the gates, because the gates were only created about 60 years ago or so by Lirian and Durokan of the Order of the Scribble.

So are you claiming that the Snarl is only 60 years old, or are you confusing the "rifts" with the "gates"?

[dtilque]

According to this line of thinking, what is the Snarl to you?

The Snarl is ....
a) Redcloak's niece
b) the MitD
c) Trigak's significant other
d) Haley's mother
e) all of the above


OK, seriously, go reread the Crayon of Time strips. The Snarl is a malevolent creature created by conflicts among the gods during the creation of World 1.0. The same story is told in abbreviation in SoD from a different point of view, so it's probably basically true.