[FO:E] Fallout Equestria OOC 2: Ante-Up My Little Ponies

[Benson]

Mmm, how exactly do these train carts look? Particularly the one with the PC slaves. How does it open? Does it have lighting inside? Is there a small hatch above on top of the cart? Does it have windows?

[Benson]

Also...I'm very confused why Stormy Skies would be under the radroach. I didn't indicate it moving off the drainage pipe, just forward before it shook its head, violently after its scuttling forward....hauh...

And if its somehow Stormy Skies managing to get under it. One thing, small legs mentioned, it would be rather low to the ground, so there's that.

[Drowlord]

Also...I'm very confused why Stormy Skies would be under the radroach. I didn't indicate it moving off the drainage pipe, it shook its head, violently after scuttling forward.

And if its somehow Stormy Skies managing to get under it. One thing, small legs mentioned, it would be rather low to the ground, so there's that.

Oh. I didn't mean he was under it, it's that he's flat on the ground and thrusting at it, so I put 'from below' to clarify.

[Benson]

The image still does not make sense and the wording still doesn't provide a different image.

[TheAmishPirate]

Oh, are they? I could have sworn they left the shack after they got settled in! I'll go back and check.


If so, then my apologies for my goof up.


From what I read, they sat down in the shack and talked for awhile... then just got up and left. So yeah, they're still on the same day.


But if everyone can agree, then we can retcon it and say Fleetwing and Violetta slept in the shack for the night then set out first thing in the morning. Because I'm feeling nice, and balancing/realism issues are a bit less headache to me than time paradoxes and chronological discrepancies.

I'm okay with this, and this also gives us a potential easier way out of the canyon.

ALSO!

I'm considering the possibility that Ebon's magic isn't enough to build the defense the Goddess wants. Still need the Black Book or some such. That would mean she would need to rope some PCs into getting it since her alicorns sorta go AWOL when she sends them to Canterlot >_>

I am also very much okay with this.

For Everyone: Out of curiosity, and for future reference, what did people think of Ebon Flame while I played him? Thoughts? Criticism? Praise?

I was honestly worried every time he did something that I'd get raged at for sue-ing, but I can be pretty paranoid about that particular bit.

Pretty much what's been said already. I disagree with every reason he had for joining Unity, and feel like his joining will cost so many more lives than it saves, but at the same time, I find myself deeply satisfied with how things turned out. I kept thinking of ways that this could have been avoided, and every single one felt like a cheap cop-out. Kudos to you for playing a character straight.

As for the sue-ish stuff; in hindsight, he seemed absurdly powerful, but it never got in the way of the story being told. What was important was how he used his power; blunt and without much forethought. Thus, he was allowed to make more mistakes, and allowed to fall even further, until Ebony was born.

It's not sue-ish if it tells a good story and doesn't stomp on our toes.

*******************************

I have a small request to make. If a post (such as the one where Fantasia and co. are messily devoured by the Smooze) is going into the incredibly dark/explicit horror/Project Horizons-level territory, could you please tag the post with some sort of warning? I think I could have done without reading a description of a foal...well, getting dissolved into Smooze while crying for her parents. Don't need to spoil it, just a little bolded warning at the top would be awesome.

[Rebonack]

Okay. If a post is going to get unpleasant I'll make a Things Are About to Get GRIMDARK comment before the nastiness begins. I'm sure all the nice people involved with our little project will be willing to do the same.

On Ebon's apotheosis, I'm rather pleased with how it turned out. I expected it would probably be a send-off. But I wanted to keep it open ended. This of course doesn't mean that the new alicorn won't make another appearance down the road.

Just don't expect her to be nice to her old friends beyond holding up the Goddess' bargain not to kill them all. Unless of course they do something else that suitably irritates the Goddess...

In the end Ebon finally got the peace and absolution he was looking for. Though certainly not in a way that's necessarily good for the Wasteland...

On the subject of train cars!

The stock car is a big boxy thing. The sort usually used to carry cattle in real life. It has a few barred windows on the sides to let air circulate and the roof has one of those little hatch things. Said hatch latches from the outside to make opening it from the inside really obnoxious.

Do you need any further details?

[Benson]

That is good, with addition of the details in the post, I have a solid mental image.

[Lycan 01]

You have a point there.

There, put in a solid wrapup post. If anyone wonders why it took so long, I fell asleep at my desk. I'm gonna go to bed now.



For Everyone: Out of curiosity, and for future reference, what did people think of Ebon Flame while I played him? Thoughts? Criticism? Praise?

I was honestly worried every time he did something that I'd get raged at for sue-ing, but I can be pretty paranoid about that particular bit.

I think that Ebon grew a lot as a character. At first, I was worried about his power level and abilities and stuff. But as things progressed, it became apparent that despite his powers, he still had flaws and failings to balance him out. And his powers wound up being more of a bane to him than a boon. He was forced to confront his shortcomings and deal with the consequences of his actions. And you roleplayed all that stuff out really well. As I said, he grew and developed a lot. And that's what's important: character depth, development, and real roleplaying. And you accomplished that quite well.

Overall, it was a satisfying character arc. Kudos to you and Rebo.

I have a small request to make. If a post (such as the one where Fantasia and co. are messily devoured by the Smooze) is going into the incredibly dark/explicit horror/Project Horizons-level territory, could you please tag the post with some sort of warning? I think I could have done without reading a description of a foal...well, getting dissolved into Smooze while crying for her parents. Don't need to spoil it, just a little bolded warning at the top would be awesome.

Yes, this is probably a good idea. Posts that are very grimdark and disturbing, like the Smooze eating ponies or the foalbots in Vault 29, should probably be placed in Spoiler Boxes with a "mature content" tag or something.

Both of those scenes kinda left me a little jarred, myself... o_o

[TheAmishPirate]

Okay. If a post is going to get unpleasant I'll make a Things Are About to Get GRIMDARK comment before the nastiness begins. I'm sure all the nice people involved with our little project will be willing to do the same.

Yes, this is probably a good idea. Posts that are very grimdark and disturbing, like the Smooze eating ponies or the foalbots in Vault 29, should probably be placed in Spoiler Boxes with a "mature content" tag or something.

Both of those scenes kinda left me a little jarred, myself... o_o

Thank you very much. I enjoy the vanilla FOE setting, but not enough to stomach the rare extremely disturbing scene. At the same time, I knew what I was getting into when I signed up for this, and it isn't my place to stop others from having fun with the darker elements. I'm glad we could work something out.

Also, Lycan, Fleetwing and Violetta left the truck in Northern Equestria.

[Lycan 01]

Thank you very much. I enjoy the vanilla FOE setting, but not enough to stomach the rare extremely disturbing scene. At the same time, I knew what I was getting into when I signed up for this, and it isn't my place to stop others from having fun with the darker elements. I'm glad we could work something out.

Also, Lycan, Fleetwing and Violetta left the truck in Northern Equestria.

Yeah, I saw. I'll get a post up in a bit, once I know what to throw at y'all write.

[TheAmishPirate]

Yeah, I saw. I'll get a post up in a bit, once I know what to throw at y'all write.

If only that text wasn't struck through! Then I would know ALL HIS SECRETS.

[Rebonack]

I wouldn't say I do the grimdark stuff to be fun. I do it to conjure up the feelings of horror associated with the nastier parts of the Wasteland. Like I said before, this setting has both dark and light. And the dark makes the light shine all the brighter by contrast.

In the end Fallout Equestria is about hope. Not hopelessness.

[Tychris1]

Wow... props to you Obliviom. That was a great send off for Ebon. That's how characters should normally die (Well, not Apotheosis specifically).

[BladeofObliviom]

Spoiler

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Wow...

That was just... I...

Ebon Flame was one of my favorite characters already from how you played him; I watched his actions even when he and the Old Appleoosa party separated. Now, to see an end like this, is fulfilling and good. Well done.

Pretty much what's been said already. I disagree with every reason he had for joining Unity, and feel like his joining will cost so many more lives than it saves, but at the same time, I find myself deeply satisfied with how things turned out. I kept thinking of ways that this could have been avoided, and every single one felt like a cheap cop-out. Kudos to you for playing a character straight.

As for the sue-ish stuff; in hindsight, he seemed absurdly powerful, but it never got in the way of the story being told. What was important was how he used his power; blunt and without much forethought. Thus, he was allowed to make more mistakes, and allowed to fall even further, until Ebony was born.

It's not sue-ish if it tells a good story and doesn't stomp on our toes.

On Ebon's apotheosis, I'm rather pleased with how it turned out. I expected it would probably be a send-off. But I wanted to keep it open ended. This of course doesn't mean that the new alicorn won't make another appearance down the road.

Just don't expect her to be nice to her old friends beyond holding up the Goddess' bargain not to kill them all. Unless of course they do something else that suitably irritates the Goddess...

In the end Ebon finally got the peace and absolution he was looking for. Though certainly not in a way that's necessarily good for the Wasteland...

I think that Ebon grew a lot as a character. At first, I was worried about his power level and abilities and stuff. But as things progressed, it became apparent that despite his powers, he still had flaws and failings to balance him out. And his powers wound up being more of a bane to him than a boon. He was forced to confront his shortcomings and deal with the consequences of his actions. And you roleplayed all that stuff out really well. As I said, he grew and developed a lot. And that's what's important: character depth, development, and real roleplaying. And you accomplished that quite well.

Overall, it was a satisfying character arc. Kudos to you and Rebo.

Wow... props to you Obliviom. That was a great send off for Ebon. That's how characters should normally die (Well, not Apotheosis specifically).

Lots of praise here.

Thanks guys! I do try to let my characters grow organically, without shoehorning them too much onto a previously-defined "path," as well as sticking to an established characterization unless there's something that changes that. This one worked out pretty well, if the comments are anything to go by.

Spoiler

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I have a small request to make. If a post (such as the one where Fantasia and co. are messily devoured by the Smooze) is going into the incredibly dark/explicit horror/Project Horizons-level territory, could you please tag the post with some sort of warning? I think I could have done without reading a description of a foal...well, getting dissolved into Smooze while crying for her parents. Don't need to spoil it, just a little bolded warning at the top would be awesome.

Okay. If a post is going to get unpleasant I'll make a Things Are About to Get GRIMDARK comment before the nastiness begins. I'm sure all the nice people involved with our little project will be willing to do the same.

Yes, this is probably a good idea. Posts that are very grimdark and disturbing, like the Smooze eating ponies or the foalbots in Vault 29, should probably be placed in Spoiler Boxes with a "mature content" tag or something.

Both of those scenes kinda left me a little jarred, myself... o_o

On this subject, I am in agreement. While I diligently read Project Horizons and am perfectly comfortable with such horror, I understand that some prefer their ponies without a side of undiluted trauma.

[Drowlord]

The image still does not make sense and the wording still doesn't provide a different image.

I'll re-fluff it all, then. Trying to provide a humorous image apparently isn't as easy as I thought it would be. Back to the edits.

[Luka]

GRIMDARKNESS can sometimes be fun, more or less when it's so dark it's funny.

Also, about Ebon I do also think that was a pretty cool way to send him off, kudos
Though it still is like said before: would be kind of saving a few, but risking a lot more... Also the ones he was supposed to save were already loaded into a slaver train and sent off to Fillydelphia, but possibly escaping by themselves

[TheAmishPirate]

I wouldn't say I do the grimdark stuff to be fun. I do it to conjure up the feelings of horror associated with the nastier parts of the Wasteland. Like I said before, this setting has both dark and light. And the dark makes the light shine all the brighter by contrast.

In the end Fallout Equestria is about hope. Not hopelessness.

Whoops. That's less me claiming that you Smooze ponies for giggles, and more me not being careful with my choice of words. A better way to phrase it would have been "I don't want to stop others from using darker scenes if they want to." I do agree with your reasons for using it.

And yes, Smooze is now a verb.

[BladeofObliviom]

Smooze ponies for giggles

No, only annoying witches with ridiculously high-pitched voices do that.

The smooze is literally the only salvagable thing about that movie, and only because fan reinterpretations make it basically a mountain-sized Shoggoth. Which has always been awesome.



On a completely different subject, whose turn is it to post in Ponyville? I'm beginning to think that it's one of those things where everyone is waiting on someone else.

[Chaotic Bob]

I tend to post in group scenes after everyone has posted at least once. Or there's been a particularly long wait.
So if that is the case, and you are waiting, it is most likely on me.

Lately, however, I've had some long work hours during the day, so my slowness has been more evident. Should be a little better Friday. Maybe.

Also, "deux ex machina pony"?
You make me laugh.

[Tychris1]

Also, "deux ex machina pony"?
You make me laugh.

That's 40% of what I try to do when I write Lamia, the other 60% is SUPER GRIMDARK GRITTY GRAGGLY BATMAN VOICE BUTCH MURDER time. Helps to balance things out.

[MCerberus]

Poor Fox Trot, or does he like being neck-deep in crazy mares?

[Benson]

Poor Fox Trot, or does he like being neck-deep in crazy mares?

He wanted a harem. Well, he's getting a harem consisting of non interested crazy mares, the fates have spoken.

[Rebonack]

Just to mention to the folks on the train.

Even if you all get taken to Fillydelphia don't despair. I'm not going to doom you guys. Unless you decide to do something really silly like attack the slavers whilst unarmed. I can't really help you out if you do that >_>

[MCerberus]

Well if Finder's able to take down the door, being exhausted from magic use this might be a 'fly you fools' moment.

[Drowlord]

Well if Finder's able to take down the door, being exhausted from magic use this might be a 'fly you fools' moment.

Elestre's giving all his physical might and some of his magic into smashing the door. If he does succeed, he's going to shield the slaves (not one big clumsy one, but small localized ones when needed) and run.

[TheAmishPirate]

Well if Finder's able to take down the door, being exhausted from magic use this might be a 'fly you fools' moment.

I think everypony in the Wasteland needs a crash course in "Not Splitting the Party."

********************

With all the events surrounding Ebon Flame's "end", I've had alicorns on the brain for the last few days. Even more so when I started work on a game design project in, what else? Unity. Namely, I've been trying to wrap my head around how they function, as it's pretty obvious their minds work in a vastly different manner than the ponies they were born from.

So here's a massive wall of text/analysis I wrote up in some classes while I was bored, dealing primarily with how alicorn minds function in a very general sense. It ended up coming out in the voice of some researcher pony, delving into matters that are likely none of his concern.

Spoiler

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Alicorns posses a truly remarkable degree of mental finesse. This is most apparent through their ability to pass their consciousness into something they call "The Shared Dream", the collection of all the memories and ponies integrated into Unity. While they can tap into these memories at any time, many choose to simply abandon their physical bodies altogether and roam the dreamspace. It should be noted that, through means that this researcher can only begin to guess at, the alicorns maintain there is some level of spatial awareness, despite the intangibility of the the space. They claim to be able to see others, see memories, but such concepts require there to be a notion of space, something completely alien to pure thought and imagination. It may be the case that they simply use such terms to refer to clarity as opposed to strictly distance. Memories they are examining, alicorns they are speaking to, these appear "close" to them, while that which they are not actively paying attention to is "far". Needless to say, the ability to describe thoughts and memories so accurately may show that their minds do not wander like you or I. When they walk down memory lane, it is not a meandering stroll, but a directed march to that which they seek. And yet, they are capable of forming ideas, spontaneously arriving at conclusions, all evidence of some form of working subconscious mind. Somehow, active, highly-directed thought can co-exist with those passive functions of the brain. Fascinating...

Now, one wonders what becomes of their physical forms when their consciousness is resting in the Dream. It appears the one known as 'The Goddess' can assume some level of control over her kin. It is unlikely that this is a direct level of control, such as when I control my leg or hoof to move, but I do not rule out the possibility that this being's mind is so alien as to make such a thing possible. Whether or not this being is still sane is another question entirely. It is more likely that it functions via a control of intent. Namely, the Goddess gives an order, and the alicorn's body obeys. This allows them to carry out complex operations that, were the alicorns replaced with robotic assistants, would surely overload even the most powerful of computers we posses.

With this being said, it has been observed, namely through the subjects "Anoma" and "Blackheart", that some alicorns are more than capable of re-assuming control over their physical bodies. More than that, they may possess temperaments, interpret orders loosely (such as attempting to slay a pony they were ordered to bring to Red Eye because said pony was trying their patience), and other such activities that are indicative of a personality and some degree of free will. With all alicorns sharing memory, this would appear to be an impossibility. Assuming that all alicorns are constantly dumping their memories into the Dream, then any individual attempting to act would be paralyzed by conflicting input. They are presently in New Appleousa, but they are also presently in the North, the South, the skies, and anywhere else an alicorn is. When they query their mind for "What was I just doing one minute ago?", they should receive potentially thousands of conflicting answers. As this does not happen, it is apparent that, while they possess no means (on their own) to determine which pre-I.M.P. memories are theirs, an alicorn possesses a basic level of identity once within Unity. Sufficient to determine which alicorn they are, and which memories they have contributed since their transformation. From this basic level of identity, they may then forge a new name and identity. It is clear that some elements of their previous life's personality remain, but where this level of identity and free will ends and the Goddess' influence begins is difficult to determine. Can an alicorn disobey a direct order? Can an alicorn even grasp the concept of the Goddess being incorrect?

So many more questions, so little we can actually understand as single-minded creatures...

If you managed to get through all that, I'd appreciate any comments or criticisms. I'm only going off of what I've seen in the RP thus far, so it's entirely possible I'm missing some things present in the fic.

[BladeofObliviom]

I think everypony in the Wasteland needs a crash course in "Not Splitting the Party."

Yeah, pretty much. There are a few cases where "Divide and Conquer" is a good strategy, but it doesn't seem to go well in the wasteland most of the time.

With all the events surrounding Ebon Flame's "end", I've had alicorns on the brain for the last few days. Even more so when I started work on a gamed design project in, what else? Unity. Namely, I've been trying to wrap my head around how they function, as it's pretty obvious their minds work in a vastly different manner than the ponies they were born from.

So here's a massive wall of text/analysis I wrote up in some classes while I was bored, dealing primarily with how alicorn minds function in a very general sense. It ended up coming out in the voice of some researcher pony, delving into matters that are likely none of his concern.

Spoiler

Show

Alicorns posses a truly remarkable degree of mental finesse. This is most apparent through their ability to pass their consciousness into something they call "The Shared Dream", the collection of all the memories and ponies integrated into Unity. While they can tap into these memories at any time, many choose to simply abandon their physical bodies altogether and roam the dreamspace. It should be noted that, through means that this researcher can only begin to guess at, the alicorns maintain there is some level of spatial awareness, despite the intangibility of the the space. They claim to be able to see others, see memories, but such concepts require there to be a notion of space, something completely alien to pure thought and imagination. It may be the case that they simply use such terms to refer to clarity as opposed to strictly distance. Memories they are examining, alicorns they are speaking to, these appear "close" to them, while that which they are not actively paying attention to is "far". Needless to say, the ability to describe thoughts and memories so accurately may show that their minds do not wander like you or I. When they walk down memory lane, it is not a meandering stroll, but a directed march to that which they seek. And yet, they are capable of forming ideas, spontaneously arriving at conclusions, all evidence of some form of working subconscious mind. Somehow, active, highly-directed thought can co-exist with those passive functions of the brain. Fascinating...

Now, one wonders what becomes of their physical forms when their consciousness is resting in the Dream. It appears the one known as 'The Goddess' can assume some level of control over her kin. It is unlikely that this is a direct level of control, such as when I control my leg or hoof to move, but I do not rule out the possibility that this being's mind is so alien as to make such a thing possible. Whether or not this being is still sane is another question entirely. It is more likely that it functions via a control of intent. Namely, the Goddess gives an order, and the alicorn's body obeys. This allows them to carry out complex operations that, were the alicorns replaced with robotic assistants, would surely overload even the most powerful of computers we posses.

With this being said, it has been observed, namely through the subjects "Anoma" and "Blackheart", that some alicorns are more than capable of re-assuming control over their physical bodies. More than that, they may possess temperaments, interpret orders loosely (such as attempting to slay a pony they were ordered to bring to Red Eye because said pony was trying their patience), and other such activities that are indicative of a personality and some degree of free will. With all alicorns sharing memory, this would appear to be an impossibility. Assuming that all alicorns are constantly dumping their memories into the Dream, then any individual attempting to act would be paralyzed by conflicting input. They are presently in New Appleousa, but they are also presently in the North, the South, the skies, and anywhere else an alicorn is. When they query their mind for "What was I just doing one minute ago?", they should receive potentially thousands of conflicting answers. As this does not happen, it is apparent that, while they possess no means (on their own) to determine which pre-I.M.P. memories are theirs, an alicorn possesses a basic level of identity once within Unity. Sufficient to determine which alicorn they are, and which memories they have contributed since their transformation. From this basic level of identity, they may then forge a new name and identity. It is clear that some elements of their previous life's personality remain, but where this level of identity and free will ends and the Goddess' influence begins is difficult to determine. Can an alicorn disobey a direct order? Can an alicorn even grasp the concept of the Goddess being incorrect?

So many more questions, so little we can actually understand as single-minded creatures...

If you managed to get through all that, I'd appreciate any comments or criticisms. I'm only going off of what I've seen in the RP thus far, so it's entirely possible I'm missing some things present in the fic.

This is more or less correct, though I think the "Dream of Unity" is referred to as having space only for the purpose of metaphor.

However, the Goddess actually is directly capable of ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL, if Lacunae is any indication. (Note that this is Project Horizons, which has some eccentricities not entirely consistent with the original story when it comes to Unity.)

Also, individual consciousnesses actually are tied to the body where they exist (Anoma and Blackheart wouldn't be able to suddenly trade bodies), but the central "Goddess" persona can reach out and effectively act as a nexus of communication between all of them. Thinking of Unity as a single mind with a thousand bodies attached to it is fundamentally incorrect; It's more like a single circle in the center (representing the Goddess, of course) connected to a thousand subordinate but technically independent consciousnesses, each of those attached to a body.






Benson? Now that I'm properly following that scene, throwing a heavily armed Canterlot Ghoul Ninja Mage against a bunch of magically exhausted, wounded, unarmed prisoners is ridiculously screwed up even without bringing the slavers into it.

[Benson]

Benson? Now that I'm properly following that scene, throwing a heavily armed Canterlot Ghoul Ninja Mage against a bunch of magically exhausted, wounded, unarmed prisoners is ridiculously screwed up even without bringing the slavers into it.

He's just doing his contracted job, no one really expects much out of him. He's a low profile dude only recognized for his ninja gimmick outfit and lack of verbal communicating skills. He's not sided morally with either side, nor does he see this as simple means of earning caps. We'll see what happens ;0

[PurityIcekiller]

Before anyone starts complaining, I'd like you to know that Night Jewel's mention of fairy dust could very well be a joke, and should not be taken as evidence that fairies definitely exist.

[Drowlord]

"Hey! I'm not unarmed, magically exhausted, or wounded! Okay, maybe I am wounded, but does that matter? I'm armed with a strong stick! I can take that thing!"

Let this be an explanation as to why Elestre's not good in a retreat .

Seriously, though, would you be opposed to having Elestre trying to talk to Swift, to try to get him to see that there are better things to do than beat up defenseless slaves? I'd like to know whether he'd likely just fight Elestre or if he'd actually listen.