Posters and... Oracle?

[Ancalagon]

The new posters (see the news) raise some question: On the evil-side-poster... why is the Oracle on the evil side and... even as big, full coloured character at that? If you look at the other full-coloured characters... it's strange.

That guy seems to be more important than it seemed. Or is he?

[One Skunk Todd]

Also notice the Snarl seems to span both posters. Hmmm.....

And Miko on the good side.

[Ancalagon]

Well, given the Snarl is the "big topic above all" and neither good nor evil, it makes sense.

But let's discuss the Oracle for three, four posts before derailing the thread, can we, please? ;)

[The Giant]

Don't read too much into it. He's the most important non-Good character that is the same size as Belkar, thus keeping the composition of the poster balanced. The fact that he also represents a group that is not associated with either Xykon or the Linear Guild helps.

Really, it was down to either him or the black dragon mother for that top slot, and the dragon is too big and would have blended in with the (and is already dead).

[SPoD]

I see a definite mirroring in the composition between the foreground figures in the left and right sides. Roy and Xykon are in the same position, Elan and Nale are in the same position, Haley and Sabine are in the same position, Durkon and Redcloak (both clerics) are in the same position, V and the Monster in the Darkness (both the most powerful). So it makes sense that Belkar and the Oracle are in the same position, both being snarky short characters having a specific antagonism towards each other.

The only place it breaks down is with Thog, who is sort of shoved in behind Nale.

EDIT: Ninja'd by the Giant, it would seem. Never mind.

[Crisis21]

I can see a few reasons why the Oracle is on the Evil side:

The oracle is a kobold, a traditionally Evil race. The oracle serves Tiamat, an Evil goddess.

As for why the oracle is placed in equal importance with Team Evil and the Linear Guild despite not working with them (and even actively avoiding Xykon), the oracle keeps coming back into the plot. Not only that, but the oracle is one of the forces driving the plot as characters come to him for advice related to the plot.

Besides, from what I can tell, the poster is divided along Protagonist/Antagonist lines rather than strict Good/Evil alignment lines. The oracle is pretty antagonistic by nature despite being a non-combatant. And lest we forget, the oracle did point the ancient black dragon at Vaarsuvius. Possibly for free too (I have zero proof of this beyond the fact that the oracle serves Tiamat and the implications that he is obligated to provide oracle services to chromatic dragons whether or not they have money to pay).

Edit: ninja'd by the Giant. Oh well.

Edit the second: I like how the lawyers are divided among both sides of the poster.

Spoiler

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Also, does anyone else think the red paladin in the lower left (appearing here in Xykon's crystal ball) looks like Elan's former employer from 'On the Origin of PCs'?

I also like how Thor's lightning bolt looks like its directly charging Durkon's hammer.

[SPoD]

Oh, I didn't even notice that you asked why the Oracle was on the evil side. That seems obvious; what has he ever done that was positive? On his best day, he's Neutral, providing cryptic often-misunderstood answers for cash when he could easily be more clear if it suited him. On his worst day, he serves an evil goddess helping evil dragons do evil stuff.

Note that Therkla and Right-Eye are both on the Bad Guys poster, and they were both pretty Neutral, not Evil. Same goes for Mr. Jones, the lawyer, and Yokyok (who was actually Good). It's definitely sorted by team, not alignment.

[Crisis21]

I just noticed: The wight in the poster does not have shoes on. That means he isn't Tsukiko's special wight (easily identified by the fact that he wears shoes that formerly belonged to Thahn).

[Hann]

I've been trying to think of characters NOT on the poster, and it's pretty hard!

The only ones I can think of are the Orc natives and Giggles, god of slapstick.

[Crisis21]

I've been trying to think of characters NOT on the poster, and it's pretty hard!

The only ones I can think of are the Orc natives and Giggles, god of slapstick.

There's a few Teevo'd on Xykon's crystal ball. Note: one of the characters being Teevo'd is in the poster! Spoilers on who I think it is below.

Spoiler

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The red paladin in the above comic, and in the lower left of the poster, looks like Elan's former employer from 'On the Origin of PCs'.

[JoeSkull]

Im more curios about why the Giant decided on using the older versions of the chars. Redcloak has his eye, and V and Haley have their old hair, whereas Elan has his new clothes.

[Kurald Galain]

I see a definite mirroring in the composition between the foreground figures in the left and right sides. Roy and Xykon are in the same position, Elan and Nale are in the same position,

Then I would say and in the same position, which makes sense given they're both powerful casters and the primary advisor in their groups.

Then we get vs or holy man vs devil girl, as well as vs , which seems to make less sense but looks cool, and at the top we have Mr. Scruffy vs. the MITD, and I suppose they're both equally intelligent and initiative-taking.

Also, this makes an awesome desktop background. Thanks, Giant!

[Crisis21]

Im more curios about why the Giant decided on using the older versions of the chars. Redcloak has his eye, and V and Haley have their old hair, whereas Elan has his new clothes.

I bet it's to minimize spoilers. So that someone who hasn't read the comic, sees the poster, and then decides to start reading doesn't suddenly say 'why does Redcloak have two eyes? When does he lose one?'

As for Elan's outfit, changes of clothes can occur for any reason. To date, Durkon is the only Order of the Stick character I have never seen wearing another outfit in the main comic (he had a different outfit in one of the prequel books though). Even if we discount the time he had to wear a blue cloak and stilts, Belkar had a temporary outfit change in one comic (even if it was for purely comedic emphasis).

Notice that Tarquin's helmet is on so that anyone who is looking at the poster without having read the comic cannot tell that he is related to Elan.

[DwarvenExodus]

I've been trying to think of characters NOT on the poster, and it's pretty hard!

The only ones I can think of are the Orc natives and Giggles, god of slapstick.

And those elven insurgents, which played a much more important role than many of the other characters on the poster.

[Crisis21]

Then I would say and in the same position, which makes sense given they're both powerful casters and the primary advisor in their groups.

Then we get vs or holy man vs devil girl, as well as vs , which seems to make less sense but looks cool, and at the top we have Mr. Scruffy vs. the MITD, and I suppose they're both equally intelligent and initiative-taking.

Also, this makes an awesome desktop background. Thanks, Giant!

Personally, I see and being opposite , , and

[RMS Oceanic]

There's one detail about the posters I definately like, apart from the Snarl spanning both pages.

On Team Good's poster, Thor is zapping down some lightning to empower Durkon's Hammer, and help him on this quest. On Team Evil's poster, the Dark One is not doing anything, just letting Redcloak get on with whatever he's supposed to be doing.

I'm probably reading too deeply into it, but it would be interesting if this was actually significant regarding Redcloak and the Dark One's relationship.

[Ted The Bug]

Not that it would surprise anyone, but Tarquin and Malack are both on the other side.

[Gift Jeraff]

Note that Therkla and Right-Eye are both on the Bad Guys poster, and they were both pretty Neutral, not Evil.

I also wonder if there's any symbolism between Eugene & Therkla being roughly parallel and Miko & Right-Eye being roughly parallel. That is, Eugene was Good while alive but seems to be shifting away and Therkla was Evil most of her life but shifted toward Neutrality at the end.
Similarly (SoD spoilers)

Spoiler

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Miko was Good most of her life but shifted away, and hindered the forces of Good all the while, while Right-Eye was Evil for most of his life but shifted away, and tried to hinder Xykon and seemingly denounced the Dark One.

[Dusk Eclipse]

just a quick thing that I loved about the poster just below the MitD there it is his dragon plushy!!! a great detail Giant

[Allan Surgite]

I like the little detail of the lawyers being on opposite sides (they're below the direct centre of the poster).

[Darth Hunterix]

To date, Durkon is the only Order of the Stick character I have never seen wearing another outfit in the main comic (he had a different outfit in one of the prequel books though).

Are you sure?
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0305.html

[Crisis21]

Are you sure?
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0305.html

Ha! I'd forgotten that panel! It may be just a flashback, but it counts darn it! Yep, every member of the Order has been shown wearing more than one outfit for the duration of the comic.

[Elfey]

Don't read too much into it. He's the most important non-Good character that is the same size as Belkar, thus keeping the composition of the poster balanced. The fact that he also represents a group that is not associated with either Xykon or the Linear Guild helps.

Really, it was down to either him or the black dragon mother for that top slot, and the dragon is too big and would have blended in with the (and is already dead).

That's a perfectly reasonably answer that gives an artistic reason raising at over plot. We can't have that. Death of the Author and all that. I proclaim the Oracle is suppose to be big bad controlling events in such a way that by the final gate Dragon-kind will control the gates as his honorary degree lets him channel both arcane and divine magic.

Also, we must start talking about the snarl and how its on both sides. Does that mean he's above good and evil, a force of nature, or was a bad guy whose turned back? Will the Snarl help defeat Xykon?

And finally, I reject Right-Eye as a bad guy and Miko as a good guy.

[DwarvenExodus]

And finally, I reject Right-Eye as a bad guy

Seconded, along with redcloak.

[Stmr5000]

Seconded, along with redcloak.

Right Eye could be considered good. Redcloak cannot.

[RMS Oceanic]

Seconded, along with redcloak.

The Dark One's stated motives are noble, but his methods are definately evil, essentially holding a +10 Divinebane Gun to the Pantheons' head until his demands are met. Those who go along with this plan are still evil, because some means can never be justified by the ends. True, Right-Eye abandoned the plan, but he never really worked for the greater good until the very end of his life, and that usually isn't enough to atone.

and Miko as a good guy.

Remember, she did fight Redcloak valiantly and nearly killed him. All her horribly misguided actions were in opposition to Xykon (and the Order, but that's another story) and protecting the gate from his clutches. Her priorities and assumptions are horribly screwed up, but she still believed in good. Soon Kim himself judged that she had done "adequately".

[Elfey]

The Dark One's stated motives are noble, but his methods are definately evil, essentially holding a +10 Divinebane Gun to the Pantheons' head until his demands are met. Those who go along with this plan are still evil, because some means can never be justified by the ends. True, Right-Eye abandoned the plan, but he never really worked for the greater good until the very end of his life, and that usually isn't enough to atone.

Right-eye rejected the plan long before Redcloak and realized it was wrong and foolish. He instead raised a village and a family, building a community simply focused on living with his neighbors. Right-Eye, after being forced back into Team Evil's services planned on how to take down Xykon. Right-Eye was rejecting the plan for years and producing a workable plan on living in peace with the neighbors. Left-Eye's city is in many ways a twisted version of his Brother's plan which stands a far better chance of working than the Dark-One's.

Remember, she did fight Redcloak valiantly and nearly killed him. All her horribly misguided actions were in opposition to Xykon (and the Order, but that's another story) and protecting the gate from his clutches. Her priorities and assumptions are horribly screwed up, but she still believed in good. Soon Kim himself judged that she had done "adequately".

She believed in her own Ego as a chosen one who gave no thought to actual morality but only to what scanned good or evil.

We know in OoTS that character alignment is more than what the Gods say you are. For the Goblins, that's what this is about and why I find Miko a perfect example. She knows no mercy and is much like those of the Guard who tried to murder Right-Eye as a child, hiding behind their gods to justify such an evil act. (Arguing here the deconstruction of D&D morality that the OoTS is about rather than the listed morality).

[DreadArchon]

Is that Fruit Pie I see?
Awesome.

[Kondziu]

I wonder how did the Cleric of Loki end up on the good side.

[Kobold-Bard]

I wonder how did the Cleric of Loki end up on the good side.

I asked that too. Probably because he killed Blind Pete, who sold out Hayley & Celia, putting them in mortal danger. Both sides need some neutral guys.

Also Loki isn't on the poster at all.