How would you, as a religious cleric, write your thesis?

[Emanick]

Who said that Durkon has to actually take a hostage? The point is the message, and to get Red Cloak's attention such that they meet.

My problem with this is that, either way, by taking this approach Durkon is ramping up Redcloak's hostility towards him without necessarily needing to. Durkon likely already has enough information to get Redcloak to listen to him, if he plays his cards right. He doesn't need to antagonize the goblin high priest, which, ceteris paribus, will make diplomacy harder once the meeting occurs.

[Fyraltari]

(This does assume that this hypothetical cleric has access to knowledge from both RC's plan and Thor's at the same time, something no-one in OotS currently has, to the best of my recollection)

Grey Wolf

Durkon does: Panel 8. And given he and Minrah considered "TDO survives" a positive outcome almost immediately, I'd be surprised if he didn't realize Redcloak does.

EDIT: Question regarding the the thread title: are there non-religious DnD Clerics? Besides poor roleplaying, I mean.

[Emanick]

Question regarding the the thread title: are there non-religious DnD Clerics? Besides poor roleplaying, I mean.

Probably not, since even the clerics of a "cause," like the stone-worshipping cult we just saw, have something that they revere. It would be theoretically possible to have an atheistic cleric (and I'm sure some people have played just such a character over the years), but since said cleric would have to dedicate him or herself to something in order to receive spells and other clerical abilities, even that person would have a religion of sorts.

I... guess you could lose your faith, and cease to be religious, but still retain all of your cleric levels? It'd be pretty bad, though, since you'd no longer have access to most of your class abilities. All you'd have left would be the basics, like your hit points, saving throw bonuses, armor and shield proficiencies, proficiency in simple weapons, skill ranks, and maybe some feats. Could be an interesting roleplaying challenge, but your effectiveness as an adventurer would be close to nil.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Durkon does: Panel 8. And given he and Minrah considered "TDO survives" a positive outcome almost immediately, I'd be surprised if he didn't realize Redcloak does.

That only shows that Durkon is aware of the danger to tDO. Not that he is aware that the plan counts world destruction as a victory. Thus, he might not think to highlight that in a sending.

EDIT: Question regarding the the thread title: are there non-religious DnD Clerics? Besides poor roleplaying, I mean.

It comes down to how you define religion (which I won't go into, for obvious reasons), but by some definitions, the clerics of the Stone don't have a religion since they don't worship a god.

Grey Wolf

[Fyraltari]

Probably not, since even the clerics of a "cause," like the stone-worshipping cult we just saw, have something that they revere. It would be theoretically possible to have an atheistic cleric (and I'm sure some people have played just such a character over the years), but since said cleric would have to dedicate him or herself to something in order to receive spells and other clerical abilities, even that person would have a religion of sorts.

I... guess you could lose your faith, and cease to be religious, but still retain all of your cleric levels? It'd be pretty bad, though, since you'd no longer have access to most of your class abilities. All you'd have left would be the basics, like your hit points, saving throw bonuses, armor and shield proficiencies, proficiency in simple weapons, skill ranks, and maybe some feats. Could be an interesting roleplaying challenge, but your effectiveness as an adventurer would be close to nil.

Okay.

That only shows that Durkon is aware of the danger to tDO. Not that he is aware that the plan counts world destruction as a victory. Thus, he might not think to highlight that in a sending.

Fair enough.

It comes down to how you define religion (which I won't go into, for obvious reasons), but by some definitions, the clerics of the Stone don't have a religion since they don't worship a god.

Grey Wolf

Well the one definition by Merriam Webster that includes God also accepts the supernatural instead so while the Creeders of the Stone are atheistic I don't think one can count them as areligious.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Well the one definition by Merriam Webster that includes God also accepts the supernatural instead so while the Creeders of the Stone are atheistic I don't think one can count them as areligious.

And I agree, but I can see how others might not - including the idea that stones are supernatural.

But dangerous topic, and one were I'd be defending a position I don't myself hold, so I wouldn't do a great job of it. Best I can hope for is for you to glimpse where the argument would lie. But I can't sell it to you, and it'd probably be against forum rules even if I could.

Grey Wolf

[Fyraltari]

And I agree, but I can see how others might not - including the idea that stones are supernatural.

But dangerous topic, and one were I'd be defending a position I don't myself hold, so I wouldn't do a great job of it. Best I can hope for is for you to glimpse where the argument would lie. But I can't sell it to you, and it'd probably be against forum rules even if I could.

Grey Wolf

They don't worship stones, though. They worship the Elemental Earth, and elementals are magic and therefore supernatural. Well, magic is natural is this universe, so the Elemantals aren't any more supernaturals than the Elves, gods, undeads and giant-strong human anyway.

[Peelee]

OK, let's make another try (starting from Korvin's version).

Redcloak! Blackmail speaking. TDO plan fail; gods boutta unmake world; TDO too young, no survive. Thor stops this if TDO helps. Worth talk details!


"Blackmail" was a joke about Redcloak's name.

So the message is, "Redcloak! Redcloak here."?

It comes down to how you define religion (which I won't go into, for obvious reasons)

Grey Wolf

Pish tosh, we can certainly go into it as for how it relates to D&D. For instance, one definition of religion could be "has skill points in Knowledge (Religion)," or "lists a deity on their character sheet." The first would have the Creed of Stone being very religious, the second would have them being not religious at all. Me, though, I'd just define it as "if you asked the character if they were religious, how would they respond?" and call it a day. Imean, sure, they could lie, but that can be dealt with like any other sort of lie if needed.

[Jasdoif]

Question regarding the the thread title: are there non-religious DnD Clerics? Besides poor roleplaying, I mean.

As has been mentioned, it depends on how you look at it. Clerics, specifically, get magical powers through the strength of their devotion; so it's a question of where to draw the line on how much devotion constitutes a religion.

There are also non-cleric classes that get cleric spells, through other means. Offhand....favored souls have an innate connection to a deity independent of any sort of belief; while ur-priests hate deities in general, and siphon/steal divine energy from them to power their own spells.

[Fyraltari]

while ur-priests hate deities in general, and siphon/steal divine energy from them to power their own spells.

You're telling me there's a class who's entire concept is to piss the most powerful being around off? Gottat be brave to start with this at level 1.

[understatement]

Also, one of the points is to split RC away from Xykon. The melee option doesn't necessarily work because you'd have to defeat Xykon to be in such proximity, which opens another can of worms. The Sending really is convenient here in that Redcloak, and only Redcloak, can get clued in to Thor's infodump without Xykon catching it at all.

in short: #makelovenotwar (in-context)

[Peelee]

You're telling me there's a class who's entire concept is to piss the most powerful being around off? Gottat be brave to start with this at level 1.

It's easy to be brave if you have a massively overpowered built at level 1. Ur-priest is a prestige class, you need specific pre-reqs to take it that'll require at least a few levels.

[Vinyadan]

So the message is, "Redcloak! Redcloak here."?

No, it's because Redcloak's name is made up of colour + clothing, and it doesn't sound like it's his real name*, so, when you contact him, you may as well use a pseudonym that is built the same way.

*I would assume that it isn't his real name because he is wearing a red cloak. Otherwise, it could be something like Thundershield.

[Peelee]

No, it's because Redcloak's name is made up of colour + clothing, and it doesn't sound like it's his real name*, so, when you contact him, you may as well use a pseudonym that is built the same way.

Dang, I should have gotten that way before you ELI5ing it to me. Which, bytheway, I totally appreciate!

[Fyraltari]

No, it's because Redcloak's name is made up of colour + clothing, and it doesn't sound like it's his real name*, so, when you contact him, you may as well use a pseudonym that is built the same way.

*I would assume that it isn't his real name because he is wearing a red cloak. Otherwise, it could be something like Thundershield.

Indeed, Start of Darkness reveals why he chose to be called that.

Spoiler

Show

Because he wears black armor.

[Peelee]

Indeed, Start of Darkness reveals why he chose to be called that.

Spoiler

Show

Because he wears black armor.

Spoiler: Reminds me of one of the best lines in film

Show

Also probably the only clip I could embed without breaking the forum filter rules.

[Lvl45DM!]

Spoiler: Reminds me of one of the best lines in film

Show

Also probably the only clip I could embed without breaking the forum filter rules.

Heh, I just posted Miron Shewdanker in the Trivia thread, and someone responded "Why is he called Shewdanker"
and the response was
"...because he danks shews, Avi"

[Peelee]

Heh, I just posted Miron Shewdanker in the Trivia thread, and someone responded "Why is he called Shewdanker"
and the response was
"...because he danks shews, Avi"

Yes, I am a bit of a one-trick pony.

[KorvinStarmast]

It comes down to how you define religion (which I won't go into, for obvious reasons), but by some definitions, the clerics of the Stone don't have a religion since they don't worship a god.

D&D 5e gets around that in the DMG, pages 10-13, where a cleric or paladin can serve a Force or a Philosophy as the conduit to divine casting abilities. Yes, I know that's not very OT for a 3.5e based comic, but it's a way to avoid the religion topic ... which I usually defined to my students this way: faith is personal, while religion is a collective endeavour. (Yes, I used the Brit spelling on purpose, and I think I stayed withing guidelines?).

[Squire Doodad]

THE END IS NIGH! THE SNARL LORD SHALL BE FREE, ONLY BANJO CAN SAVE US NOW! APPLY TODAY, FREE REBATE QUOTE! ACT NOW, DON'T DELAY!

Oh, you wanted something productive?

There are also non-cleric classes that get cleric spells, through other means. Offhand....favored souls have an innate connection to a deity independent of any sort of belief; while ur-priests hate deities in general, and siphon/steal divine energy from them to power their own spells.

Does that mean that when gods are out of divine energy, they need to ask their Clerics to go into Ur base and starting killin Ur dudes?

On the topic: Is it even possible for RC to stop Durkon from attempting to reach him via Sending? Furthermore, do you guys really think he would? It doesn't seem like a common tactic to need to defend against, and RC has plenty of reasons to not block sendings (Xykon does stuff, Gobohobbotopia is under attack, etc.).

[Kish]

If Redcloak is currently under the effects of Cloister, Durkon can no more Send to him than Vaarsuvius could send to Haley during Don't Split the Party.

[understatement]

If Redcloak is currently under the effects of Cloister, Durkon can no more Send to him than Vaarsuvius could send to Haley during Don't Split the Party.

Me in the third-to-last and penultimate panel.

Well.

Huh, that does communication more difficult.

[The Pilgrim]

Also, one of the points is to split RC away from Xykon. The melee option doesn't necessarily work because you'd have to defeat Xykon to be in such proximity, which opens another can of worms. The Sending really is convenient here in that Redcloak, and only Redcloak, can get clued in to Thor's infodump without Xykon catching it at all.

in short: #makelovenotwar (in-context)

Your OP did not include that information.

If the intent is to drift Redcloak away from Xykon, then the Sending I would make is:

"Xykon shared Ritual. Backstabbing you. Vampire clerics of Hel have full plan for Snarl. My god offers parley by proxy with Dark One. Call back."

Technically all is true or an educated guess at least. And Durkon already shown at Azure City prison that he is into Jedi-Truths when necessary.

[Vinyadan]

Me in the third-to-last and penultimate panel.

Well.

Huh, that does communication more difficult.

Don't worry, you can always use Vaarsuvius's Spicy Messenger.

[Fyraltari]

Your OP did not include that information.

If the intent is to drift Redcloak away from Xykon, then the Sending I would make is:

"Xykon shared Ritual. Backstabbing you. Vampire clerics of Hel have full plan for Snarl. My god offers parley by proxy with Dark One. Call back."

Technically all is true or an educated guess at least. And Durkon already shown at Azure City prison that he is into Jedi-Truths when necessary.

I don’t follow, how would Durkon know Xykon knows even part of the Ritual and with whom has Xykon shared it? Tsukiko? Durkon doesn’t know that and Redclaok has already dealt with it. How is Xykon backstabbing Redcloak? And what do the vampires have to do with the Snarl? Their plan hinges on the Godsmoot not on Team Evil’s actions. Why would Redcloak even care about them?

[martianmister]

Dark One is in danger. Greenhilt got your niece. Halfling will tickle her with knife if you don't meet me in Firmament by tomorrow noon.

[understatement]

Dark One is in danger. Greenhilt got your niece. Halfling will tickle her with knife if you don't meet me in Firmament by tomorrow noon.

Wouldn't meeting at Firmament possibly endanger the dwarves inside?

[Fyraltari]

Does anyone even know Redcloak has a niece?

[Squire Doodad]

Question regarding the the thread title: are there non-religious DnD Clerics? Besides poor roleplaying, I mean.

There's been a couple, yeah. (5th panel).
I stand by my cross-canon-reference-gibberish.

Does anyone even know Redcloak has a niece?

Hm, Redcloak does.
Honestly, I don't think that's been brought up in the online comics at all except for maybe a passing remark by Redcloak. And even then it would have been while everyone else is busy because the only place I can think of it happening would be maybe the war on Azure City or a discussion with Oona. Small chance that the ACUG knew about it from their poly-polymorph spy, but the odds of them feeling it important to tell Hinjo or the Order is fairly small.

[Fyraltari]

Hm, Redcloak does.

Besides him, obviously.

Honestly, I don't think that's been brought up in the online comics at all except for maybe a passing remark by Redcloak. And even then it would have been while everyone else is busy because the only place I can think of it happening would be maybe the war on Azure City or a discussion with Oona. Small chance that the ACUG knew about it from their poly-polymorph spy, but the odds of them feeling it important to tell Hinjo or the Order is fairly small.

I don't see any context in which Redcloak would bring that up to anybody, nor do I remember it happening. Tsukikko, for example had no idea why calling him "Wrong Eye" riled him up.