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  1. - Top - End - #91
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #859 - The Discussion Thread

    Oh Durkon, how do I love thee.

    Now this is indeed a good strip. The follow on to last time, and follow on well it does. It shows interesting moments, good fast paced action and even a bit of character for Nale here, a character who I think gets a short shrift a bit too often. It also seems to be able to set up a few essential tension moments without them seeming massively contrived. Good moments there. However on to more details.

    The Good:
    1) Always start with the art, and here is as good a place as any to do so. There are a few specific panels with good quality images. The art of Durkon's walking through the wall, the Holy Word image, the billowing smoke, the buzzsaw trap and more. Everything is well drawn and good looking, especially the doublt image effect of the Holy Word. But more than this the overall structure is birlliant.
    2) And to give this element it's due the first few panels are a wonderul structure of confusion and movement. Switching straight from Nale's trap escape to Malack being cut off was great for the pacing. As well once it happened things slow down and we get a slow build of tension with good wide panels to produce a strong moment.
    3) Durkon is being badass here. I must praise this as it really does seem to hammer home the image of the order being competent. Which is good. This is stage 2 of what is obviously a multi stage plan. Now V is undoubtably gonna arrive at some point, and the isolation of Malack is probably going to matter. But twice now the order have shown intelligence and competence. As well as a bit of clever "out of the box" thinking, which they needed. It helps when our heroes look useful and smart. Even Tarquin has been staggered by the spell
    4) And to give a quick shout out to Nale here, I like what we see of his leadership here. Yes the order outhink him, and he does start being short tempered/not thinking. But even then his recognition of what the trap was, his run down of their situation and his taking charge/orders is quite good. Nale seems to be stepping up a bit more here. It is a bit of character development that I do not doubt will contribute to the growing intra-party conflict for the LG. The combination of frustration and intellect is a good thought.

    The Bad;
    1) Whilst I understand the decision, and it works, the contrived way that Malack is specifically cut off from the rest of the LG is a small nitpick. It has a small sense of "must happen for my plot to work....i.e. so we don't twig who Tarquin is". Not a huge problem, but a minor one.


    So only a small nitpick and a lot of good moments. There was action, character development and good technical skill on show. Overall this is **** by my eyes. I am eagerly looking forward to see what happens next time.
    If I cared about this, I would probably do something about it.

  2. - Top - End - #92
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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #859 - The Discussion Thread

    40 foot radius, eh? From the previous strip, the mummies are well in range. I suppose that means they're all destroyed. Malack's going to be pissed.

    I like how the spinning saw blades seem to blow air and make a brief area of clean air.

    Hm, how'd Durkon run through the crowd of mummies without drawing five attacks of opportunity? They have to be commanded to attack, I suppose? Oh...looking carefully, he is indeed stepping out of the wall after using his stone shape spell.
    Last edited by Finagle; 2012-07-26 at 10:51 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #93
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    NinjaGirl

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    Default Re: OOTS #859 - The Discussion Thread

    Glad to see the Order is fighting back. Tarquin whupping them singlehandedly was getting really old.

  4. - Top - End - #94
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #859 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    In OotSland, it appears the word in Holy Word is actually "Holy."
    Just like Power Word Stun.
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  5. - Top - End - #95
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #859 - The Discussion Thread

    In the last panel, Durkon is standing next to the only character who was uneffected by his spell.

    Guess which character has a death prophecy flying around.

  6. - Top - End - #96
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #859 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Finagle View Post
    40 foot radius, eh? From the previous strip, the mummies are well in range. I suppose that means they're all destroyed. Malack's going to be pissed.

    Hm, how'd Durkon run through the crowd of mummies without drawing five attacks of opportunity? They have to be commanded to attack, I suppose?
    He travelled through the stone of the wall, bypassing them. You can see him stepping out from it.
    "They couldn't know that the points from the mainline to the siding were frozen, and the signal should have been set at 'DANGER', but snow had forced it down."
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  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: OOTS #859 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by douglas View Post
    They didn't hear him because he literally came through the wall rather than trying to sneak past, probably using Meld Into Stone.
    I don't think so, the spell description says it works on "a single block of stone." Durkon is stepping out of the junction of three blocks.

    Someone on another forum suggests he's shrugging off a camouflage spell.
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  8. - Top - End - #98
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #859 - The Discussion Thread

    Durkon is pure awesome.

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  9. - Top - End - #99
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    Default Re: OOTS #859 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Onyavar View Post
    In the last panel, Durkon is standing next to the only character who was uneffected by his spell.

    Guess which character has a death prophecy flying around.
    Belkar isn't in the room...
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  10. - Top - End - #100
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    Default Re: OOTS #859 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Miel View Post
    I don't think so, the spell description says it works on "a single block of stone." Durkon is stepping out of the junction of three blocks.

    Someone on another forum suggests he's shrugging off a camouflage spell.
    I kind of doubt it's camouflage. Take a look -- the edges of the stone blocks appear to be soft and distorted around him, like the stone itself is buckling as he pushes out of it.
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  11. - Top - End - #101
    Giant in the Playground Administrator
     
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    Default Re: OOTS #859 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Miel View Post
    I don't think so, the spell description says it works on "a single block of stone." Durkon is stepping out of the junction of three blocks.

    Someone on another forum suggests he's shrugging off a camouflage spell.
    It's Meld Into Stone. I don't feel bound to that level of rules accuracy, and it was otherwise really hard to show the flat stone warping without having the mortar lines bending too.
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  12. - Top - End - #102
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    Default Re: OOTS #859 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    It's Meld Into Stone. I don't feel bound to that level of rules accuracy, and it was otherwise really hard to show the flat stone warping without having the mortar lines bending too.
    Thank you -- we appreciate the information!

    (Especially since I was just proven right in my last post !)
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    So the song runs on, with shift and change,
    Through the years that have no name,
    And the late notes soar to a higher range,
    But the theme is still the same.
    Man's battle-cry and the guns' reply
    Blend in with the old, old rhyme
    That was traced in the score of the strata marks
    While millenniums winked like campfire sparks
    Down the winds of unguessed time. -- 4th Stanza, The Bad Lands, Badger Clark

  13. - Top - End - #103
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ClericGirl

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    Default Re: OOTS #859 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    It's Meld Into Stone. I don't feel bound to that level of rules accuracy, and it was otherwise really hard to show the flat stone warping without having the mortar lines bending too.
    Thank you; that's exactly the kind of ambiguity that leads to 10+ pages of counterquoting argument, delving further into obscure references and circular arguments with every post.

  14. - Top - End - #104
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #859 - The Discussion Thread

    My favorite comic in a while. I loved the Watchman reference with Malack. Maybe a hint as to his true character?

    I find it a little two coincidental that both neutral-ish casters are separated from their parties with their familiars. Perhaps a meet up between them soon. I would think Malack could give V some solace over his/her actions. He just seems like that kind of lizard and has the same not so subtle contempt for his own party, so maybe something in common over which to bond?

    You know, unless hes trying to kill V or something.

    Also, the passive look on Durkon's face? Classic.
    Last edited by bengator; 2012-07-26 at 11:25 AM.

  15. - Top - End - #105
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    Planetar

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    Default Re: OOTS #859 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Winter View Post
    On top of that, the Holy Word instantly took out Sabine.
    ETA: Never mind. Found the relevant text in the SRD.

    Furthermore, if you are on your home plane when you cast this spell, nongood extraplanar creatures within the area are instantly banished back to their home planes. Creatures so banished cannot return for at least 24 hours. This effect takes place regardless of whether the creatures hear the holy word. The banishment effect allows a Will save (at a -4 penalty) to negate.
    So it took out Sabine? Wow. That is NEAT.

    ETA: Or not. It allows a will save. Given this is OOTS , assume Sabine makes a natural 20 .

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.
    Last edited by pendell; 2012-07-26 at 11:38 AM.
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  16. - Top - End - #106
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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #859 - The Discussion Thread

    Shouldn't Z'zdtri have said, "me either"? Kilkil said "I can't see" and "me too" means to agree with a positive statement. "Me either" means to agree with a negative statement. The things you learn hanging out with lots of people who speak English as a second language.

    Oh, and Holy Word can be blocked by steel doors?
    Last edited by Finagle; 2012-07-26 at 11:27 AM.

  17. - Top - End - #107
    Surgebinder in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: OOTS #859 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by pendell View Post
    I do not dispute the rest of your post, but how did it take out Sabine? The spell's description does not imply any particular damage to devils or demons beyond the standard damage to all characters, and if I understand class & level geekery correctly , she's on par level with Nale and company, so would not suffer anything but deafening.

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.
    She's a nongood extraplanar creature. Holy Word banishes those back to their home plane and prevents them from coming back for 24 hours. A successful will save can prevent this, but it's a substantially harder save than normal thanks to a special -4 penalty.
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  18. - Top - End - #108
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: OOTS #859 - The Discussion Thread

    It's quite possible Tarquin is deafened, as his pose could be shrugging off the affects, or taking them. However, he probably isn't blinded, which means he's in the perfect place for a full attack on Durkon.
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  19. - Top - End - #109
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #859 - The Discussion Thread

    Awesome.

    This might be bad news for Durkon though....
    There is a good chance that Tarquin is going to be pissed.

    and "just the speel for tha" is meld into stone, because it allowed Durkon to be part of the ambush instead of Sir Clanksalot

  20. - Top - End - #110
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    Default Re: OOTS #859 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    It's Meld Into Stone. I don't feel bound to that level of rules accuracy, and it was otherwise really hard to show the flat stone warping without having the mortar lines bending too.
    I stand corrected. Ah well, I never heard of it before today anyway.
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  21. - Top - End - #111
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    Default Re: OOTS #859 - The Discussion Thread

    So what happens when Malack uses one of the many spells usable to bypass or destroy the wall?
    “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds;

  22. - Top - End - #112
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #859 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bengator View Post
    My favorite comic in a while. I loved the Watchman reference with Malack. Maybe a hint as to his true character?

    I find it a little two coincidental that both neutral-ish casters are separated from their parties with their familiars.
    Qarr is Zz'dtri's familiar, not Malack's. Clerics don't get familiars unless they multiclass to sorcerer or wizard or something.

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  23. - Top - End - #113
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    Default Re: OOTS #859 - The Discussion Thread

    Let's hear it for 20gp novelties!
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  24. - Top - End - #114
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: OOTS #859 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 2323mike View Post
    Tarquin's stance did not change at all during the progression of the spell. I think his posture is a reflex obtained from experience, but the Word did not affect him.
    Check his body positions and the angle of his axe haft in the last panel. Tarquin looks affected to me.

  25. - Top - End - #115
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #859 - The Discussion Thread

    So does this end the...erm..."ambiguity" of Tarquin's alignment, or will we have 20 pages worth of post with some crazy reason as to why he is not evil and "didn't really get effected by the spell"?

    Shame Thog and Belkar wasn't caught in it too, would clear those up as well.

    ...

    And yes, I am aware that the Giant literally mentioned their alignment, that didn't seem to help.

    EDIT: Whelp, nevermind.
    Last edited by sims796; 2012-07-26 at 11:42 AM.

  26. - Top - End - #116
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    Default Re: OOTS #859 - The Discussion Thread

    Regarding Tarquin, my money's on "unaffected." I'm interpreting his pose as a facepalm, not being deafened. (Note that he has it before Nale and Sabine clutch their ears...) But we'll find out!

    Quote Originally Posted by Agi Hammerthief View Post
    so now they are standing in Holy Smoke?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finagle View Post
    Shouldn't Z'zdtri have said, "me either"? Kilkil said "I can't see" and "me too" means to agree with a positive statement. "Me either" means to agree with a negative statement. The things you learn hanging out with lots of people who speak English as a second language.
    Actually, no, that would be "me neither." But "me too" works as well.

  27. - Top - End - #117
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    Default Re: OOTS #859 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Shmuel View Post
    Regarding Tarquin, my money's on "unaffected." I'm interpreting his pose as a facepalm, not being deafened. (Note that he has it before Nale and Sabine clutch their ears...) But we'll find out!



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    Actually, no, that would be "me neither." But "me too" works as well.
    It's also possible Rich interprets "Unaffected" not as "Literally does nothing" but "Does no damage and does not blind or deafen, ext" so the bracing may just be him withstanding it, even if he doesn't get deafened.

    We'll know soon enough.

  28. - Top - End - #118
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    Blackdrop's Avatar

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    Default Re: OOTS #859 - The Discussion Thread

    I'm willing to bet that whether he's affected or not, Tarquin acts like he's deafened so he can act and ignore Nale's orders.

    Also, I'm willing to bet the ambush isn't over yet and that Belkar/Elan are similarly hidden nearby to take out Kilkil and Z.
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  29. - Top - End - #119
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    Default Re: OOTS #859 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by pendell View Post
    ETA: Or not. It allows a will save. Given this is OOTS , assume Sabine makes a natural 20 .
    No, I doubt that. If Rich wanted an awesome entry by Durkon with this Sneak Attack but leave Sabine in the game, he'd probably have taken another spell.

    Having a great idea and setup (and for once the Order actually plans) and then it only goes up into a boring "Poof" because some lame saving throw was made is simply boring.
    Also notice how Sabine just has shown that Nale needs her (or he'd have fully ran into half a dozen traps)? I think she's going to be out of the picture as of the next panel.
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    Default Re: OOTS #859 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Faramir View Post
    Exactly. It seemed pretty obvious they were setting an ambush. I'm guessing they also took advantage of the trap positioning when deciding where to set it.
    What makes this doubly amazing is that this is one of the few ways to hide a PC that defeats True Seeing and high Spot. Tarquin didn't have a chance. I think only another Dwarf would have a shot thanks to Stonecunning.

    I may have to use this in a campaign
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