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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: 2012 Holiday Ornament

    Quote Originally Posted by Maggogz View Post
    {Scrub the post, scrub the quote}
    Have you ever actually tried to draw an OotS style character yourself? Because it really isn't as easy as it looks, especially if you want a style that's consistant and detailed.
    Last edited by Roland St. Jude; 2012-12-16 at 08:36 PM.

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    Default Re: 2012 Holiday Ornament

    Quote Originally Posted by The Succubus View Post
    Have you ever actually tried to draw an OotS style character yourself? Because it really isn't as easy as it looks, especially if you want a style that's consistant and detailed.
    I did and, while I never expected to come even close to matching rich, it still was more difficult that i assumed and it sucked worse than i hoped.

    But it's a common fallacy of humans to think that everything we don't know is simple.
    In memory of Evisceratus: he dreamed of a better world, but he lacked the class levels to make the dream come true.

    Ridiculous monsters you won't take seriously even as they disembowel you

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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: 2012 Holiday Ornament

    I live in the US, eastern shore, think it might make it in time?

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: 2012 Holiday Ornament

    Quote Originally Posted by The Succubus View Post
    Have you ever actually tried to draw an OotS style character yourself? Because it really isn't as easy as it looks, especially if you want a style that's consistant and detailed.
    Exactly. Probably at least a third of the users here have custom avatars that imitate Rich's style. And while some of them are pretty good in their own right, I don't believe I've ever seen a single one that looks like it was actually drawn by Rich Burlew.
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: 2012 Holiday Ornament

    Without making any particular comments on the author's art style, I did find the announcement interesting as an... insight into why the character may have been dropped. I hadn't realised that the author's finances were so tight at the time, and while I believe that a deft handling of Miko's development might have softened the audience's reception, I could understand if it was difficult to continue with her character arc as once conceived. Whatever the author's sympathies may have been, well, he's gotta eat.

    Of course, this is all pure, overreaching speculation on my part, and may be freely dismissed as the fevered ravings of an addled brain.

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: 2012 Holiday Ornament

    "Miko and Windstriker prove that it's technically not a surprise attack if you're jingling all the way."

    ...Heh. Classic.

  7. - Top - End - #37
    Troll in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: 2012 Holiday Ornament

    Quote Originally Posted by Carry2 View Post
    Without making any particular comments on the author's art style, I did find the announcement interesting as an... insight into why the character may have been dropped. I hadn't realised that the author's finances were so tight at the time, and while I believe that a deft handling of Miko's development might have softened the audience's reception, I could understand if it was difficult to continue with her character arc as once conceived. Whatever the author's sympathies may have been, well, he's gotta eat.

    Of course, this is all pure, overreaching speculation on my part, and may be freely dismissed as the fevered ravings of an addled brain.
    ...Dropped?

  8. - Top - End - #38
    Giant in the Playground Administrator
     
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    Default Re: 2012 Holiday Ornament

    Quote Originally Posted by Carry2 View Post
    Without making any particular comments on the author's art style, I did find the announcement interesting as an... insight into why the character may have been dropped. I hadn't realised that the author's finances were so tight at the time, and while I believe that a deft handling of Miko's development might have softened the audience's reception, I could understand if it was difficult to continue with her character arc as once conceived. Whatever the author's sympathies may have been, well, he's gotta eat.

    Of course, this is all pure, overreaching speculation on my part, and may be freely dismissed as the fevered ravings of an addled brain.
    To be clear, I don't make decisions about the story based on my finances. Just decisions about merchandise. Miko was already dead and buried long before I ran into money trouble that year. Her story was not "cut short" because people didn't like her, it was exactly the length that was intended.
    Rich Burlew


    Now Available: 2023 OOTS Holiday Ornament plus a big pile of new t-shirt designs (that you can also get on mugs and stuff)!

    ~~You can also support The Order of the Stick and the GITP forum at Patreon.~~

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: 2012 Holiday Ornament

    Quote Originally Posted by Tannhaeuser View Post
    Heh, I tried one, too:

    Slashing through the snows
    On my one horse, I will slay,....
    ha! That's better than my version. Well done!!!

  10. - Top - End - #40
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: 2012 Holiday Ornament

    I had no idea she was unpopular. Polarizing, sure, but infamy serves as well as fame in fiction.

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: 2012 Holiday Ornament

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    To be clear, I don't make decisions about the story based on my finances. Just decisions about merchandise. Miko was already dead and buried long before I ran into money trouble that year. Her story was not "cut short" because people didn't like her, it was exactly the length that was intended.
    If you say so, Mr. Burlewe. If you say so.
    Last edited by Carry2; 2012-12-18 at 06:43 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: 2012 Holiday Ornament

    Quote Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son View Post
    Exactly. Probably at least a third of the users here have custom avatars that imitate Rich's style. And while some of them are pretty good in their own right, I don't believe I've ever seen a single one that looks like it was actually drawn by Rich Burlew.








    To name a few.
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    This is the thief who likes to hoard,
    That loves the bard with the puppet Lord
    That admires the fighter with the green-hilted sword,
    That employs the Wizard, whose bird is ignored,
    That has the gender unexplored
    That intrigues the Halfling, usually bored,
    That slew a mountain of the goblin horde,
    That follows the cleric,
    That serves the lich,
    That seeks the gate,
    That guards the snarl,
    That lives in the prison the gods built.


    guess what I was gone but now I'm back

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    wink Re: 2012 Holiday Ornament

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    To be clear, I don't make decisions about the story based on my finances. ...
    Does this explain why there's been a shortage of lucrative crossover deals? a few parodies or sly references, but no "Crisis On Infinite OOTSverse" or a "Marvel Team-up" with Spiderman and Belkar having a conflicted, but ultimately successful, joint battle against Doc Oc's attempt to harness the power of the Snarl. Think of the money to be made in licensing with Disney for a musical starring Princess Haley as she Learns A Valuable Lesson in trying to save her father ...!

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: 2012 Holiday Ornament

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Elf Bard View Post
    To name a few.
    Those are not custom avatars that imitate Rich's style. They're official board avatars that were drawn by Rich Burlew.
    Please write all sarcasm in blue text. All metaphors should be marked in red text and for any split infinitives, please use green. Thank you.

  15. - Top - End - #45
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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: 2012 Holiday Ornament

    Anyone know how long Miko will be around? Trying to make sure I have everything for christmas paid off before getting this, but I don't want to miss out on it.

  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: 2012 Holiday Ornament

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Elf Bard View Post
    To name a few.
    Uhh... please check the URL from which they come. ;)
    Ser Ilyn, Ser Meryn, Queen Cersei, King Joffrey, The Tickler, The Hound, Ser Amory, Polliver, Raff the Sweetling, Weese, Dunsen, Nale, Ser Gregor Clegane and Chiswyck: Winter is coming!

  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: 2012 Holiday Ornament

    Quote Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son View Post
    Those are not custom avatars that imitate Rich's style. They're official board avatars that were drawn by Rich Burlew.
    To be fair, I've seen a number of posters with customised avatars that look similar enough to Rich's style that I can't tell the difference.

    There's no particular shame in that. The strength of the strip has always been in clever puns and convoluted dialogue, not foreshortening and perspective. I have certainly seen more traditionally-drawn webcomics where the art was much more off-putting for making the effort at anatomical detail and getting it wrong all over. In that context, I think the OOTS' style is something like a (very) scaled-back version of Pixar's reluctance to enter the uncanny valley. (And as someone who's worked on flowcharts, I can say that positioning lines and boxes is more time-consuming than it looks.)

    So when I say 'no comment' what I actually mean is 'I don't mind either way'. If I had a problem, you would hear about it.

  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: 2012 Holiday Ornament

    I'm not sure why it would be relevant whether they matched Rich's style or not, anyway, since the point is more that it is a style in the first place.

  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: 2012 Holiday Ornament

    Quote Originally Posted by ti'esar View Post
    I'm not sure why it would be relevant whether they matched Rich's style or not, anyway, since the point is more that it is a style in the first place.
    ... and that it is hard to create in a similar fashion. That one or three people managed that is no reason to assume everyone else could do so as well. Also keep in mind that a number of the avatars that "look good" are in many cases actually commissioned work. So the people who can draw them nicely might even be smaller than it seems.
    Ser Ilyn, Ser Meryn, Queen Cersei, King Joffrey, The Tickler, The Hound, Ser Amory, Polliver, Raff the Sweetling, Weese, Dunsen, Nale, Ser Gregor Clegane and Chiswyck: Winter is coming!

  20. - Top - End - #50
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    Default Re: 2012 Holiday Ornament

    Quote Originally Posted by Carry2 View Post
    If you say so, Mr. Burlewe. If you say so.
    ....well, who else is qualified to comment on the OotS storyline arc, if not the guy that's actually writing it?

  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: 2012 Holiday Ornament

    Quote Originally Posted by ti'esar View Post
    I'm not sure why it would be relevant whether they matched Rich's style or not, anyway, since the point is more that it is a style in the first place.
    Rich says he can't draw on a computer at all at the moment, so given that, he can't make a new ornament. He also can't come up with the idea for an ornament and then give that idea to someone else to draw, because it very likely wouldn't come out looking like his own work. That's why it's relevant.

    Finding this old artwork is literally the only way that an ornament could be made this year, so why shouldn't Rich make out it's a big deal? In OotS Christmas ornament-related news of 2012, it's pretty much the biggest deal there is.
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  22. - Top - End - #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son View Post
    Rich says he can't draw on a computer at all at the moment, so given that, he can't make a new ornament. He also can't come up with the idea for an ornament and then give that idea to someone else to draw, because it very likely wouldn't come out looking like his own work. That's why it's relevant.

    Finding this old artwork is literally the only way that an ornament could be made this year, so why shouldn't Rich make out it's a big deal? In OotS Christmas ornament-related news of 2012, it's pretty much the biggest deal there is.
    You're preaching to the choir about this. What I was saying was that it doesn't matter - for the purposes of disproving the now-scrubbed snarky comment - whether it's possible for other people to imitate Rich's style, since the point is "merely" that it's a deliberate style requiring effort and skill.

  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Default Re: 2012 Holiday Ornament

    Quote Originally Posted by Carry2 View Post
    If you say so, Mr. Burlewe. If you say so.
    I gotta agree with what Kish said in the spring of 2011: the language used by Rich there doesn't really guarantee a tenure that will last till the very end... just that she's there to stay a significant while, unlike non-recurring characters.

    #0120-#0464 is a pretty long time for a "not major enough" character...

    Don't forget that there's also the desire to avoid unnecessary spoilers -- even though Miko's fate was likely already sealed in Rich's mind at the time, why would he tell us in the commentary for that book that Miko's actually got a shorter life expectancy than, say, Nale?

    The generic comment "I liken Miko to Nale/Redcloak, a.k.a. recurring" is to be taken as that, generic...


    Quote Originally Posted by ti'esar View Post
    You're preaching to the choir about this. What I was saying was that it doesn't matter - for the purposes of disproving the now-scrubbed snarky comment - whether it's possible for other people to imitate Rich's style, since the point is "merely" that it's a deliberate style requiring effort and skill.
    Everyone agrees except the banned guy whose comment I didn't get to read: the ratio of custom-avatars-that-look-like-Rich-drew-them to custom-avatars-that-don't on the forums make it clear that very few people can pull it off, and if very few people can pull it off, then it's pretty much guaranteed that one-handed/wrong-handed Rich Burlew doesn't make it into that really select group...
    Last edited by lio45; 2012-12-22 at 11:30 AM.
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  24. - Top - End - #54
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    Default Re: 2012 Holiday Ornament

    Quote Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
    Everyone agrees except the banned guy whose comment I didn't get to read: the ratio of custom-avatars-that-look-like-Rich-drew-them to custom-avatars-that-don't on the forums make it clear that very few people can pull it off, and if very few people can pull it off, then it's pretty much guaranteed that one-handed/wrong-handed Rich Burlew doesn't make it into that really select group...
    I'd say most start drawing closely to the Giants style, but after drawing a couple of avatars you might begin to feel confident in your drawing-skills and instead begin to use the style as a platform to develop a slightly more personal variation of it.
    Not to say that, in the end, everyone could copy the Giant closely - just that the differences often is due to personal taste rather than an inability to draw more like him.

  25. - Top - End - #55
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    Default Re: 2012 Holiday Ornament

    Update time! (With emoticons.)

    So, I waited quite a bit for CafePress's answer to the bug report I filed. The answer was, basically, "we can't do anything about it, that's how the site works now, order from the UK but the printing and shipping will be done in/from the US".

    I ordered anyway: the ornament and two shirts.

    Printing of the items took two weeks (which is… well, in light of the holidays, nothing to lose sleep over), and I was certain they'd never meet their original projected delivery date of "between Jan 3 and Jan 8", what with the shipping all the way over the big pond and stuff.

    I got the shipping notice on Jan 3. There was still not the tiniest doubt in my mind that they'd miss their deadline, but hey, that happens all the time. As long as it gets here someday soon, I'll live with it. Imagine my surprise when I came home today to find the parcel sitting at my doorstep, in perfect condition, with a "fragile" sticker placed neatly in a corner on the top
    (Yes, the delivery guy left it sitting out there even though it was snowing in the morning, for everyone to take who would just lift the doormat he'd oh-so-inconspicuously leaned over the parcel against the door but that's nothing CafePress has any control over, so…)

    Upon further inspection, it turned out that the parcel didn't cross the atlantic. The only body of water I'm 100% certain this parcel crossed is the Danube. They printed it in and shipped it from the Czech Republic. (I'm SO not complaining about the place of origin, less chance of breakage and no import fees! It's just kinda funny that the customer care people at CafePress don't know where their own parcels come from. Especially as I think to recall the 2010 parcel being from the Czech Republic as well, or maybe Poland. )

    The ornament arrived safe and sound, wrapped in a whole lot of bubble-wrap, and there was even more of the stuff along the walls of the parcel. The Medium size T-shirts are a tiny bit snug (they fit, but a bit tighter than I expected), so next year, I'll order my T-shirts in Large. It seems their T-shirts get smaller each year, because all of my orders so far were for Medium size, and the older ones still fit as they did on the first day

    Well, that concludes the tale of honigmuffin's 2012 CafePress order. Tune in next year for the continuation of this epic battle of loot versus wallet!

  26. - Top - End - #56
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    Default Re: 2012 Holiday Ornament

    Quote Originally Posted by Carry2 View Post
    If you say so, Mr. Burlewe. If you say so.
    I see nothing there that contradicts what Rich said.

    Also, its "Burlew."
    "And yet, will we ever come to an end of discussion and talk if we think we must always reply to replies? For replies come from those who either cannot understand what is said to them, or are so stubborn and contentious that they refuse to give in even if they do understand." - St. Augustine

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  27. - Top - End - #57
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    Default Re: 2012 Holiday Ornament

    Carry2 is very attached to the idea that Miko was planned to be Roy's love interest instead of Celia, even moreso than the other people who have mistakenly assumed this over the years (but have been willing to accept Rich telling them they were wrong, or at least have chosen to abruptly stop talking about it).

  28. - Top - End - #58
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    Default Re: 2012 Holiday Ornament

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePhantasm View Post
    I see nothing there that contradicts what Rich said.

    Also, its "Burlew."
    Thank you for the correction.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Carry2 is very attached to the idea that Miko was planned to be Roy's love interest instead of Celia, even moreso than the other people who have mistakenly assumed this over the years (but have been willing to accept Rich telling them they were wrong, or at least have chosen to abruptly stop talking about it).
    Given that the author explicitly says, opposite strip #224 in Paladin Blues, that "Even up to Miko's unveiling in #200 [the] idea of her as a romantic foil for Roy persisted"... yes, you could say I am 'attached' to the idea. (As it so happens, I'm actually quite fond of Celia, but that's beside the point.)

    Spoiler
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    I am equally attached to the statement that she was going to be a recurring antagonist around for the rest of the storyline, on a par with Nale and Redcloak. And to the notion that Miko was always planned to smash the Gate and die in the process, an event that, at the going rate, happened rather less than halfway through the plot. And to the the author's insistence that all the essential elements of the storyline have been set in stone since before strip 200. Unfortunately, these assertions are mutually incompatible.

    Look. I know this seems like I'm just stirring trouble, but the author's record on this point is either flat-out retconning or, at best, so easily misinterpreted as to be effectively misleading regardless of intent. I don't know what was going through his head at the time, and I don't know that anyone apart from me will ever notice this in future. But given that the author feels a pressing need to shut down certain character-centric debates, it might help if he didn't... confuse his audience any more than necessary.

    Just for future reference.

    .
    Last edited by Carry2; 2013-02-20 at 06:29 AM.

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