Overwatch: Thread of the Game

[BRC]

ah.
That explains it! How did I miss that?? *Weirdly ashamed now*

Also, the name exists in Swedish but either as Birgitta or Birgit.
Just FYI

Yeah, I think it's a weird thing where, since Reinhardt picked the name (and the Lindholms didn't translate it to a Swedish equivalent), it's spelled like the German/Dutch Brigitte, but since she is swedish, it's pronounced more like Birgitta.

It's a bit like spelling your name Juan, but pronouncing it John.

[The_Jackal]

So, I've been wondering something.

Is backfill as emotionally rewarding for the backfill players as regular play is? If it is less rewarding, could it be made to feel enough better to achieve parity?

Nobody likes backfill, but I think we can all agree that playing a man down is worse. The main issue with backfilling isn't the idea of being slotted into a game where someone dropped, it's that the most common backfill situation is "The game is 30 seconds from over, so you're around just long enough to watch the overtime expire and watch the 'DEFEAT' montage". The second most common is "You're teamed with no healers, no tanks, 2 Snipers and attack Symmetra/Torb". These aren't design problems (well, except in so far as the venn diagram of the effective heroes and fun heroes has very little overlap), so much as they are human nature problems. It's the classic Blizzard problem: 'We made a game designed for a demographic of imaginary gamers who are cooperative, friendly, and polite'.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

So, I've been wondering something.

Is backfill as emotionally rewarding for the backfill players as regular play is? If it is less rewarding, could it be made to feel enough better to achieve parity?

It's bonus XP plus it usually seems to last almost no time at all, so I don't mind it.

[GolemsVoice]

It IS kind of a bummer, but yeah, you get game XP plus backfill XP, so it could be worse.

[Velaryon]

On the exceedingly rare occasions where you backfill into a game where you can actually make a difference and turn things around? Yes, it's still emotionally rewarding.

Most of the time though, it seems like you either backfill into games that are just about over, or into teams full of complete mouth-breathing idiots. Neither is emotionally rewarding. I'll stick around for the games that are almost over and collect the extra backfill XP (although it's really not all that much). If I backfill into a team of morons, I may or may not stick around depending on how my matches have been going that day. If I'm already on a losing streak and I backfill into a team with two snipers and no healers, I'm probably not going to stick around.

[The_Jackal]

On the exceedingly rare occasions where you backfill into a game where you can actually make a difference and turn things around? Yes, it's still emotionally rewarding.

Most of the time though, it seems like you either backfill into games that are just about over, or into teams full of complete mouth-breathing idiots. Neither is emotionally rewarding. I'll stick around for the games that are almost over and collect the extra backfill XP (although it's really not all that much). If I backfill into a team of morons, I may or may not stick around depending on how my matches have been going that day. If I'm already on a losing streak and I backfill into a team with two snipers and no healers, I'm probably not going to stick around.

My experience is that a team can do really poorly in one circumstance and really badly in another. I've had teams that have pulled out a solid win on one map, only to get curbstomped on the mirror match, and it's hard to figure out how they're the same people. So I don't think it's 'mouth breathing idiots' very often. Take the last 2 matches I ran, one win, one loss. On the win, we had a not-great comp of Zarya/D.va, I was on Sombra, per usual, on Anubis. Sombra is really strong, in my experience on 2CP, if players have the presence of mind to play around the hacked packs I'm providing, and capitalize on my EMP when it's charged. We were on offense. Point 1 was cleared relatively quickly, spawn advantage means you can trade out 1 for 1 and win. Point 2 is the real test, we got one tick on our first push, were rebuffed on our second, but then on the third, a Grav/Self-Destuct combo from our tanks took out 4, for a quick knockout.

Now we're on defense, and D.va switches to Orisa. Now she was a great D.va, but she had no clue as to what her job was as Orisa. The enemy tracer was sneaking around to harass our point, and rather than let some teammates go chase her off, she packs off the platform at point 1, leaving the people up top without help, and letting the enemy team saunter in through the choke uncontested. So, just at the moment when I'm dueling with Tracer, there's the enemy team crashing onto the point behind us, and everyone is suddenly dead. Then, presumably to help fend off a flanking Tracer, Orisa swaps off to Torbjorn, while we rally at the second point, leaving us with no tank. Rein calmly strolls up the lane, gets a big shatter, and his team curbstomp everyone. Match over.

Now I don't think Orisa is irretrievably dumb, or a bad player, she just followed two mistakes back to back that gave the enemy team an easy victory. And that's most of my Overwatch experiences: A group that seems good suddenly appears awful, just because it was someone on the other team that made a terrible mistake. And, to be honest, I've made more than my own fair share of terrible mistakes too. If you watch Twitch steamers and pro's you see a lot of undisciplined play and bad decisions. Heck, the pro's can't even stop from dropping sprays every time they get a frag, even though that fraction of a second can cost them a match.

[Spore]

It's the classic Blizzard problem: 'We made a game designed for a demographic of imaginary gamers who are cooperative, friendly, and polite'.

Similar to WoW where playing with randoms is the most toxic and saddening thing imaginable, Overwatch could use a clan system where you can play with (semi-)friends whenever you log in. Or does it already have one of these?

[Velaryon]

My experience is that a team can do really poorly in one circumstance and really badly in another. I've had teams that have pulled out a solid win on one map, only to get curbstomped on the mirror match, and it's hard to figure out how they're the same people. So I don't think it's 'mouth breathing idiots' very often. Take the last 2 matches I ran, one win, one loss. On the win, we had a not-great comp of Zarya/D.va, I was on Sombra, per usual, on Anubis. Sombra is really strong, in my experience on 2CP, if players have the presence of mind to play around the hacked packs I'm providing, and capitalize on my EMP when it's charged. We were on offense. Point 1 was cleared relatively quickly, spawn advantage means you can trade out 1 for 1 and win. Point 2 is the real test, we got one tick on our first push, were rebuffed on our second, but then on the third, a Grav/Self-Destuct combo from our tanks took out 4, for a quick knockout.

Now we're on defense, and D.va switches to Orisa. Now she was a great D.va, but she had no clue as to what her job was as Orisa. The enemy tracer was sneaking around to harass our point, and rather than let some teammates go chase her off, she packs off the platform at point 1, leaving the people up top without help, and letting the enemy team saunter in through the choke uncontested. So, just at the moment when I'm dueling with Tracer, there's the enemy team crashing onto the point behind us, and everyone is suddenly dead. Then, presumably to help fend off a flanking Tracer, Orisa swaps off to Torbjorn, while we rally at the second point, leaving us with no tank. Rein calmly strolls up the lane, gets a big shatter, and his team curbstomp everyone. Match over.

Now I don't think Orisa is irretrievably dumb, or a bad player, she just followed two mistakes back to back that gave the enemy team an easy victory. And that's most of my Overwatch experiences: A group that seems good suddenly appears awful, just because it was someone on the other team that made a terrible mistake. And, to be honest, I've made more than my own fair share of terrible mistakes too. If you watch Twitch steamers and pro's you see a lot of undisciplined play and bad decisions. Heck, the pro's can't even stop from dropping sprays every time they get a frag, even though that fraction of a second can cost them a match.

Is that a Freudian slip showing that you actually agree with me?

For real though, I know what you mean. Sometimes an otherwise competent player makes a small mistake that leads to things spiraling out of control, or one lucky pick by the enemy team makes everything fall apart.

But on the other hand, as you've said many times a match can be lost in the spawn room when no one wants to make smart character choices, and I often find myself backfilling into those matches because one or two people didn't want to deal with the other four playing all snipers and flankers.

[Avilan the Grey]

I LOVE Overwatch. I ADORE the characters and the voice actors.
Unfortunately I have not enough friends in my own timezone to actually do anything but playing solo. It does get boring very quickly.

[Mutazoia]

Similar to WoW where playing with randoms is the most toxic and saddening thing imaginable, Overwatch could use a clan system where you can play with (semi-)friends whenever you log in. Or does it already have one of these?

Kinda....

The game will show you people on your friends list who are currently playing, so you can try to drop into a game with them. But if the game is full you spectate until someone else drops out.

[Spore]

Kinda....

The game will show you people on your friends list who are currently playing, so you can try to drop into a game with them. But if the game is full you spectate until someone else drops out.

That's not a community feature, just a friend list feature. Guilds or Clans are a different than dropping into a HS duel, a dungeon or a HotS queue with your friend.

[chainer1216]

Looks like this years Uprising event is called Retribution, a digital comic and short in game trailer was released. Its a Blackwatch Vs Talon mission with pre-reaper Reyes, Mccree, Gengi and Moira as the playable characters for the mission.

It looks like Cerbe...uh i mean Talon is using cybernetically enhanced soldiers, including what looks like a prototype widowmaker, and cyperninjas of their own.

[The_Jackal]

I'm glad of any coop content they put out. Should be fun, I certainly enjoyed the Uprising event from last year.

[Keltest]

I'm glad of any coop content they put out. Should be fun, I certainly enjoyed the Uprising event from last year.

Ditto. I will play the crap out of this event.

[HasSIn]

Incoming rant, watch out!

I really don't get why people in gold and low plat don't want to play Pharmercy. Especially at this rank this combo is quite honestly OP as there aren't that many good hit-scan players. And yet in 30-odd battles that I have played with Phara in the last two seasons, I got pocketed in TWO games. It boggles my mind. And I get that after so many seasons of Mercy being a must-pick people would rather play other supports, but of those 30 something battles there were at least 10 matches in which my team had Mercy, but she would not pocket me. Actually, most of the time she wouldn't even heal me unless I landed right in front of her and pressed 'I need healing!' several times.

And today... I don't even know where to begin. I had this Moira player being toxic, criticizing DPS players for not doing their job. I didn't receive a single heal from her or the Zen player in the entire game. I had to play around heath packs until I finally switched off. And that Moira was just running around doing damage instead of healing.

Then I've played this battle on Eichenwald. We've already had Mercy and we still needed a second healer, so i took Moira. We were having a really hard time to get the first point and our Phara player was constantly asking for heals, but Mercy just wouldn't heal her. Actually, I healed her more as Moira and saved her life a couple of times and that Phara carried us, but no thanks to Mercy.

I just don't get it. Phara is so much better when she is pocketed by Mercy, but people in gold don't seem to realize that. This really annoys me.

[The_Jackal]

Incoming rant, watch out!

I really don't get why people in gold and low plat don't want to play Pharmercy. Especially at this rank this combo is quite honestly OP as there aren't that many good hit-scan players. And yet in 30-odd battles that I have played with Phara in the last two seasons, I got pocketed in TWO games. It boggles my mind. And I get that after so many seasons of Mercy being a must-pick people would rather play other supports, but of those 30 something battles there were at least 10 matches in which my team had Mercy, but she would not pocket me. Actually, most of the time she wouldn't even heal me unless I landed right in front of her and pressed 'I need healing!' several times.

And today... I don't even know where to begin. I had this Moira player being toxic, criticizing DPS players for not doing their job. I didn't receive a single heal from her or the Zen player in the entire game. I had to play around heath packs until I finally switched off. And that Moira was just running around doing damage instead of healing.

Then I've played this battle on Eichenwald. We've already had Mercy and we still needed a second healer, so i took Moira. We were having a really hard time to get the first point and our Phara player was constantly asking for heals, but Mercy just wouldn't heal her. Actually, I healed her more as Moira and saved her life a couple of times and that Phara carried us, but no thanks to Mercy.

I just don't get it. Phara is so much better when she is pocketed by Mercy, but people in gold don't seem to realize that. This really annoys me.

So, Gold/Plat is "average player", so when you're criticizing Gold/Plat players, you may as well just substitute that with 'Overwatch Players', because by the account of most top streamers, you encounter the same level of obstinacy in Diamond and above.



As for why your Mercy didn't pocket the Pharah, who knows? Was she in a group? Maybe she was pocketing her buddy instead. Was she in a group? Maybe she doesn't didn't look up. It's harsh, but Mercy tends to attract a certain type of player, if you catch my drift. However, I'd also argue that unless the enemy team has a competent Widowmaker, Pharah shouldn't need a pocket on Eichenwalde point 1. The area is festooned with tall buildings to use as cover, safe landing spots to recover jets, and long enough lines of sight to never really get into trouble.

[Spore]

I just don't get it. Phara is so much better when she is pocketed by Mercy, but people in gold don't seem to realize that. This really annoys me.

"Dominant strategy" is a term used by players. Yet, if Gold/Plat is the average player, they play for fun and not for 100% success rating. They play the heroes that interest them and give the most enjoyment in the current game. Sometimes that is pockethealing a Pharah. Sometimes it is not.

Stomping your enemy every game is not fun for many. I haven't played a lot of Overwatch but I am certainly heading towards Pharah or Mercy because my aim is BAAAAD. But I feel vulnerable with Pharah probably because my decision making tends to make me overextend (aka MMO syndrome = maximizing DPS). Same with Mercy. I heal the guys that actually play smart with their cover and such. I can't justify myself charging in in a duo with Pharah. I stay with the team. Either with Reinhardt because I feel comfy with him or Mei/Torb to defend me.

[Mutazoia]

Incoming rant, watch out!

I really don't get why people in gold and low plat don't want to play Pharmercy. Especially at this rank this combo is quite honestly OP as there aren't that many good hit-scan players. And yet in 30-odd battles that I have played with Phara in the last two seasons, I got pocketed in TWO games. It boggles my mind. And I get that after so many seasons of Mercy being a must-pick people would rather play other supports, but of those 30 something battles there were at least 10 matches in which my team had Mercy, but she would not pocket me. Actually, most of the time she wouldn't even heal me unless I landed right in front of her and pressed 'I need healing!' several times.

And today... I don't even know where to begin. I had this Moira player being toxic, criticizing DPS players for not doing their job. I didn't receive a single heal from her or the Zen player in the entire game. I had to play around heath packs until I finally switched off. And that Moira was just running around doing damage instead of healing.

Then I've played this battle on Eichenwald. We've already had Mercy and we still needed a second healer, so i took Moira. We were having a really hard time to get the first point and our Phara player was constantly asking for heals, but Mercy just wouldn't heal her. Actually, I healed her more as Moira and saved her life a couple of times and that Phara carried us, but no thanks to Mercy.

I just don't get it. Phara is so much better when she is pocketed by Mercy, but people in gold don't seem to realize that. This really annoys me.

Eh.

Pocketing Phara with Mercy is great....for Phara. Sux ballz for the rest of the team though. If your support is only supporting ONE team mate, they are pretty much useless, unless that one player is at grandmaster level and is carrying the entire match by themselves. But at that point, do they really need dedicated healz? I'm thinking not.

So then you need two healz...one just for Phara, and one for the rest of the team, and your overall DPS drops, as does your ability to push a choke, since your healz really should be sticking to the tank (unless everybody else on your team is super-solo-flanker-guy, in which case screw it...take Anna and have 3 attack snipers for the lulz).

So now you have one healer flying around with her lips glued to Phara's back side, one (hopefully) doing his job keeping the tank up, and 2 super-solo-flanker-guys running around by themselves, leaving the Tank and healz to get focused by the other team, whining for healz even though they are way out of position behind enemy lines, and generally not making much of a contribution.

[HasSIn]

As for why your Mercy didn't pocket the Pharah, who knows? Was she in a group? Maybe she was pocketing her buddy instead. Was she in a group? Maybe she doesn't didn't look up. It's harsh, but Mercy tends to attract a certain type of player, if you catch my drift. However, I'd also argue that unless the enemy team has a competent Widowmaker, Pharah shouldn't need a pocket on Eichenwalde point 1. The area is festooned with tall buildings to use as cover, safe landing spots to recover jets, and long enough lines of sight to never really get into trouble.

Phara doesn't need to pocketed, I grant you that, no hero really does, but it makes her infinitely stronger. There's a good reason why pros only play her together with Mercy. Damage-boosted Phara does 156 dmg per rocket instead of 120; that's 216 additional damage per magazine or in other words one more 200 HP hero dead. And sure, you can use walls and other obstacles and play clever, but even the best Pharas in the world are going to take damage eventually, whether it's from a well-placed Torb turret or that Mccree who just came from spawn and you didn't notice him until too late. Mercy allows Phara to play more aggressively and makes even an average Phara a potent threat.

"Dominant strategy" is a term used by players. Yet, if Gold/Plat is the average player, they play for fun and not for 100% success rating. They play the heroes that interest them and give the most enjoyment in the current game. Sometimes that is pockethealing a Pharah. Sometimes it is not.

Stomping your enemy every game is not fun for many. I haven't played a lot of Overwatch but I am certainly heading towards Pharah or Mercy because my aim is BAAAAD. But I feel vulnerable with Pharah probably because my decision making tends to make me overextend (aka MMO syndrome = maximizing DPS). Same with Mercy. I heal the guys that actually play smart with their cover and such. I can't justify myself charging in in a duo with Pharah. I stay with the team. Either with Reinhardt because I feel comfy with him or Mei/Torb to defend me.

I am not advocating that one should blindly follow Phara. If she is getting herself into suicidal situations or is not hitting anything or say your Rein needs the healing more then by all means you should stay with the rest of your team. But there is a good reason to stay with Phara. As Mercy you are much safer in the air (way harder to hit) and you have probably a better view of the battlefield, so you can reposition accordingly. It also helps that while you are in the air you can dodge most of the ultimates.

Eh.

Pocketing Phara with Mercy is great....for Phara. Sux ballz for the rest of the team though. If your support is only supporting ONE team mate, they are pretty much useless, unless that one player is at grandmaster level and is carrying the entire match by themselves. But at that point, do they really need dedicated healz? I'm thinking not.

As I said above, it is also beneficial to Mercy's survivability. And by pocketing Phara I don't mean to completely abandon the rest of your team. If you see someone is low on health you can GA to them and heal them and then go back to Phara. Also, I have to disagree that GM Phara benefits the most. I would say Pharmercy is far more deadly in low tiers, then in the higher ones.

So then you need two healz...one just for Phara, and one for the rest of the team, and your overall DPS drops, as does your ability to push a choke, since your healz really should be sticking to the tank (unless everybody else on your team is super-solo-flanker-guy, in which case screw it...take Anna and have 3 attack snipers for the lulz).

But you already have 2 healers, at least most of the matches I play do, so I don't see why would your DPS drop. If you have only one healer, then I agree, you shouldn't pocket just one guy. But if there are two, especially if the other healer is Moira or even Ana (i.e. primary healers), then you as Mercy should try to support your Phara. Moira is more than capable to heal multiple targets. Also, if your Pharmercy is doing work you don't even need your tanks to push the choke. Phara can either pick off the defenders or at least lure them away from the choke and thus allow your tanks to push up.

[ChaosOS]

While pharmercy is definitely strong, I want to nitpick on the "one more 200 hp hero dead". Realistically, you're still two shotting people, so you're still killing 3 people per clip in ideal situations. What it does do is make small misses more forgiving, as a direct hit + miss is much more likely to kill your target. Furthermore, your rockets now 1 shot 150 hp heroes (baby D.Va, Tracer) and tear through tanks faster. But if you were just going up against an endless parade of soldier/mccree/zenyatta etc. then you'd kill them equally as fast.

[Narwhalz]

Ok guys I'm a mei 1 trick in gm/ high masters.
Let the salt flow.

[The_Jackal]

Ok guys I'm a mei 1 trick in gm/ high masters.
Let the salt flow.

No salt here. Mei is hard to play, and you're well out of Diamond, where just cheesing stats can get you to climb with an indifferent win rate. I like playing with a good Mei. They understand positioning and space control, and their wall, when used intelligently, can be incredibly useful.

[Narwhalz]

No salt here. Mei is hard to play, and you're well out of Diamond, where just cheesing stats can get you to climb with an indifferent win rate. I like playing with a good Mei. They understand positioning and space control, and their wall, when used intelligently, can be incredibly useful.

No!!!! I needed the salt so i could get into an posting war untill i could post attachments.

Just kidding

[HasSIn]

While pharmercy is definitely strong, I want to nitpick on the "one more 200 hp hero dead". Realistically, you're still two shotting people, so you're still killing 3 people per clip in ideal situations. What it does do is make small misses more forgiving, as a direct hit + miss is much more likely to kill your target. Furthermore, your rockets now 1 shot 150 hp heroes (baby D.Va, Tracer) and tear through tanks faster. But if you were just going up against an endless parade of soldier/mccree/zenyatta etc. then you'd kill them equally as fast.

That's true.

Ok guys I'm a mei 1 trick in gm/ high masters.
Let the salt flow.

Anyone who plays Mei is a worshiper of the Devil, there I said it.

[huttj509]

Easiest way to get Phamercy happening: Play Mercy yourself and look for Pharas to pocket.

Are you an awesome Pharah who my pocketing will stomp the foe? Or are you often not in a great position while the team is suffering so my healing would be better down there? I dunno. Every Pharah thinks they're amazing. Half are below average pretty much by definition.

"Why won't people in random groups focus on making me awesome" doesn't scan well.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Ok guys I'm a mei 1 trick in gm/ high masters.
Let the salt flow.

You monster.

For real though, respect. I get really annoyed at the shade thrown at people who dare to have a main. That level of focus and dedication is delightful.

[The_Jackal]

You monster.

For real though, respect. I get really annoyed at the shade thrown at people who dare to have a main. That level of focus and dedication is delightful.

There's nothing wrong with having a main. There is something wrong with never swapping to a non-DPS class, or sticking on a Hero who's being countered hard.

[HasSIn]

Easiest way to get Phamercy happening: Play Mercy yourself and look for Pharas to pocket.

Are you an awesome Pharah who my pocketing will stomp the foe? Or are you often not in a great position while the team is suffering so my healing would be better down there? I dunno. Every Pharah thinks they're amazing. Half are below average pretty much by definition.

Actually, I play Mercy. She is one of my many mains and arguably my best hero and I always swap to Mercy even when I wanted to play Zen or Lucio instead. However, no one really extends the same "courtesy" to me. Also, it's not even about me. Other Pharas, too, are more often than not without Mercy. Today I saw two players playing in a group, one was Phara, the other Zen. When I checked the Zen player's stats it turned out he was a Mercy main. A couple of days ago, the same thing, but instead of Zen, it was Moira. I just don't get it. Why even play together if you are not going to play compatible heroes?

"Why won't people in random groups focus on making me awesome" doesn't scan well.

It's more like this: "Why won't people try to increase their chance of winning by picking heroes that work better together?"

[Keltest]

Actually, I play Mercy. She is one of my many mains and arguably my best hero and I always swap to Mercy even when I wanted to play Zen or Lucio instead. However, no one really extends the same "courtesy" to me. Also, it's not even about me. Other Pharas, too, are more often than not without Mercy. Today I saw two players playing in a group, one was Phara, the other Zen. When I checked the Zen player's stats it turned out he was a Mercy main. A couple of days ago, the same thing, but instead of Zen, it was Moira. I just don't get it. Why even play together if you are not going to play compatible heroes?



It's more like this: "Why won't people try to increase their chance of winning by picking heroes that work better together?"

I think you are somewhat overestimating the power of pharmercy. Youre dedicating two heroes to do one job only somewhat better than normal, and probably requiring that a third be dedicated to an additional support as well. Its good if you absolutely need Phara, specifically, but beyond that she isn't exceptionally better than having a damage boosted 76, or McCree, or bastion, or reaper, or... well, you get the idea.

To say nothing of the fact that people really, really don't like having justice rained down on them from above. You start running with a heavy pharmercy, and they will take steps to make you really, really unhappy.

[The_Jackal]

Actually, I play Mercy. She is one of my many mains and arguably my best hero and I always swap to Mercy even when I wanted to play Zen or Lucio instead. However, no one really extends the same "courtesy" to me. Also, it's not even about me. Other Pharas, too, are more often than not without Mercy. Today I saw two players playing in a group, one was Phara, the other Zen. When I checked the Zen player's stats it turned out he was a Mercy main. A couple of days ago, the same thing, but instead of Zen, it was Moira. I just don't get it. Why even play together if you are not going to play compatible heroes?

Because they're not playing together. Why should anyone subordinate their desires to indulge the desires of a stranger? The way the competitive matchmaking system is structured, Blizzard has effectively turned the spawn room into a Prisoner's Dilemma experiment. If you could group up without worrying about being matched into upscaled competition, players could form teams and maybe compromise about who plays the Mercy, form strategies that complement their proclivities, and ultimately find more fun.

It's more like this: "Why won't people try to increase their chance of winning by picking heroes that work better together?"

Because people don't want to win, they want to PLAY.