Agents of Shield VI: I am an Agent of SHIELD

[Giggling Ghast]

Greetings, fans of SHIELD! This thread picks up near the end of Season 4, which (at the time of this writing) may or may not be the final season of Agents of Shield!

Past Threads:

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. II: It's a Magical Thread
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. III: Cut Off One Thread, Two More Shall Take Its Place
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. IV: Oh, the Inhumanity!
Agents of SHIELD V: You Joined the Cavalry

In general, please spoiler any discussion of episodes until at least a few days after each episode. Fans who are not up to date may want to tread carefully.

[Giggling Ghast]

Spoiler

Show

I said all along that Mack would be the hardest to convince to return and it seems I was right.

Regarding AIDA:

Spoiler

Show

****ING HAX

That bitch gave herself Inhuman powers!

[Douglas]

Spoiler

Show

So apparently Radcliffe's backdoor restores your memories in addition to sending you out. Convenient.

Forcing Fitz out was fully justified in my opinion, and really was getting to be the only plausible way he would ever leave, with how firmly entrenched and digging deeper he's been in his new role. Clever thinking on Radcliffe's part, and he just might have redeemed himself a little. I still wouldn't trust him without very close supervision, but he has learned at least part of the lesson he needs.

Mack... That's a real bittersweet moment, there. I really don't see the writers leaving him indefinitely in the Framework, though, so I predict he's going to either die or get out soon. My bet's on getting out - his body is protected by Coulson and May, his mind in the Framework is secure in Shield's main base, and the Framework hardware is with his body. Aida probably could still take back control of the Framework long enough to shut it down if she wanted to, but I think she just doesn't care about it rather than hating it. So, other options: Shield people in control of the Framework main hardware might be able to simply eject Mack via external controls; cruel but effective. A return trip into the Framework could conceivably capture and force him into the backdoor; good luck with that, he's a lot harder to physically restrain than Fitz. Or Shield could use Aida's device, which seems to be near the newly wakened Coulson and May, to bring Hope out with him; with that on the table, Mack would come willingly. So, my guess is Hope will get a real body soon.

I don't think Hydra's going to be a problem in the Framework much longer. Both of the top leaders disappeared simultaneously, at the same time as Shield sprang a surprise return and sparked a popular rebellion as well. With that going down, a return trip to talk with Mack and bring him out could be uneventful enough to be just one or two scenes.

I really did not see Aida's powers coming.

[Giggling Ghast]

Spoiler

Show

So apparently Radcliffe's backdoor restores your memories in addition to sending you out. Convenient.

Forcing Fitz out was fully justified in my opinion, and really was getting to be the only plausible way he would ever leave, with how firmly entrenched and digging deeper he's been in his new role. Clever thinking on Radcliffe's part, and he just might have redeemed himself a little. I still wouldn't trust him without very close supervision, but he has learned at least part of the lesson he needs.

Mack... That's a real bittersweet moment, there. I really don't see the writers leaving him indefinitely in the Framework, though, so I predict he's going to either die or get out soon. My bet's on getting out - his body is protected by Coulson and May, his mind in the Framework is secure in Shield's main base, and the Framework hardware is with his body. Aida probably could still take back control of the Framework long enough to shut it down if she wanted to, but I think she just doesn't care about it rather than hating it. So, other options: Shield people in control of the Framework main hardware might be able to simply eject Mack via external controls; cruel but effective. A return trip into the Framework could conceivably capture and force him into the backdoor; good luck with that, he's a lot harder to physically restrain than Fitz. Or Shield could use Aida's device, which seems to be near the newly wakened Coulson and May, to bring Hope out with him; with that on the table, Mack would come willingly. So, my guess is Hope will get a real body soon.

I don't think Hydra's going to be a problem in the Framework much longer. Both of the top leaders disappeared simultaneously, at the same time as Shield sprang a surprise return and sparked a popular rebellion as well. With that going down, a return trip to talk with Mack and bring him out could be uneventful enough to be just one or two scenes.

I really did not see Aida's powers coming.

Spoiler

Show

I think Mack has made his choice. Unless they can bring Hope out of that world, I don't think he'll leave.

I do respect Radcliffe for doing the right thing for once.

[Dragonexx]

Spoiler

Show

I really did not see Aida's powers coming.

[Douglas]

Completely serious, I assure you.

Spoiler

Show

When Aida teleported out with Fitz, I spent a few moments just blinking and staring at the screen in surprise. I expected Aida's human body to be a prime specimen of humanity, in perfect health with 99th percentile or above in all normal human capabilities - strength, speed, reflexes, toughness, scientific/mathematical intelligence, etc. I did not expect her to have outright blatant superpowers.

New prediction:

Spoiler

Show

Aida's newly acquired human feelings and emotions will be her downfall. She may even develop genuine love for Fitz, and sacrifice herself for his sake or be emotionally crushed (to the point of either suicide or fatal distraction) by him rejecting her.

[Dragonexx]

Spoiler

Show

Strange. When I learned she was building a new body for herself, I immediately figured she'd give herself inhuman powers. I couldn't think of a reason for her not to.

[Giggling Ghast]

I admit, the sudden poof was a surprise.

It's somewhat ironic given that ...

Spoiler

Show

... as Madame Hydra, she oppressed Inhumans in the Framework.

[Douglas]

Spoiler

Show

Strange. When I learned she was building a new body for herself, I immediately figured she'd give herself inhuman powers. I couldn't think of a reason for her not to.

Spoiler

Show

It didn't occur to me that she might be able to. It combines multiple things that were previously unsolved problems that hadn't even had anyone trying to solve, much less making any progress on, none of which relate to any of her prior work.

[huttj509]

I admit, the sudden poof was a surprise.

It's somewhat ironic given that ...

Spoiler

Show

... as Madame Hydra, she oppressed Inhumans in the Framework.

Spoiler: about that

Show

Oppressed them, collected them, dissected them, studied them.

No wonder she had to catch em all.

[LaZodiac]

Spoiler: about that

Show

Oppressed them, collected them, dissected them, studied them.

No wonder she had to catch em all.

Spoiler

Show

You know, that's perfectly sensible and explains how she was able to do this. Our heroes were so focused on Project Looking Glass that they didn't realize that she could of easily been studying other things as well. I like it.

This episode was great, and I feel SUPER bad for Mack. It looks like the only way he's getting out is if they make Hope a body...I wonder how that'll go.

Also, I made a bet with my Dad that Mace would come back. He's pretty clearly not. I'm gonna enjoy that ten bucks.

[Chen]

Spoiler

Show

You know, that's perfectly sensible and explains how she was able to do this. Our heroes were so focused on Project Looking Glass that they didn't realize that she could of easily been studying other things as well. I like it.

This episode was great, and I feel SUPER bad for Mack. It looks like the only way he's getting out is if they make Hope a body...I wonder how that'll go.

Also, I made a bet with my Dad that Mace would come back. He's pretty clearly not. I'm gonna enjoy that ten bucks.

Spoiler

Show

I have no idea how they'd make Hope a body though. She's not a real mind put into the framework. She's just a constructed program that emulates a human. I have to imagine there are plenty of things "missing" in her that work fine in the framework but wouldn't work so well outside.

[Red Fel]

Spoiler

Show

It didn't occur to me that she might be able to. It combines multiple things that were previously unsolved problems that hadn't even had anyone trying to solve, much less making any progress on, none of which relate to any of her prior work.

Spoiler

Show

A bit of this. I'm not sure that studying Inhumans inside the Framework counts, given that you're studying digital approximations of Inhumanity instead of actual, factual Inhumans. And I also didn't anticipate that Project Looking Glass would be able to simulate not only humanity, but Inhumanity post-Terragenesis.

Honestly, I just figured she was somehow tapping into the Other Place that Robbie's uncle tapped into, but instead of pulling stuff out of it, she was sliding through it to teleport. Because, you know, Darkhold. *handwave*

Spoiler: I Was Right!

Show

It's time for my favorite game: I called it!

• The core team escapes the Framework. Duh. Per the rules, everyone who was in the first episode will need to be present for the finale. Well, Ward is a bust, but otherwise, everyone else got out. You know, except...
• Mack has the toughest time leaving. Admittedly, I figured he would leave - and I still do, see my predictions below - but I knew he would want Hope more. Called it.
• Radcliffe's redemption. Yeah, I figured he'd only go along with what we saw in the teaser last week in order to kick Fitz out.
• Fitz is a mess. No kidding. They weren't just 1s and 0s, he legitimately real-world-killed Mace. If that doesn't have long-term consequences for him I'm going to be very disappointed in the writers.

You may all Marvel at my prophetic powers now.

Spoiler: My Thoughts on the Episode

Show

You know, I may have complained about the linearity of the plot, but this episode did a good job of switching things up. We knew that the team would ultimately escape the Framework; we just didn't know how, when, or in what condition. Hinting that they might not get Fitz out on this go-around was a nice touch. Using that to red herring the fact that it was Mack who didn't leave was also nice. Getting Fitz out by force, instead of by a revelation induced by the obnoxious power of true love, was immensely gratifying.

I thought Simmons' method of trying to reach Fitz, while certainly demonstrative of her desperation, was stupid. Yeah, she was desperate, but she really ought to know better, and it's frustrating that even though she has started to accept that this world was real to the people in it, she was still blindly convinced that Fitz would simply be her Fitz again, just because she wanted it really badly. It should be no surprise to anyone, including her, that it ended the way it did.

I thought Mack's conflict was genuinely powerful. Guy has some of the best moments on the show, and plays them to the hilt. On a related note, I am going to miss Evil!Fitz. That character was so damned great, it was an absolute pleasure to watch.

As much as I loathed stonefaced-martyr Evil-ish!May, I really hope she doesn't snap back over into bubbly-giggly-flirt!May. There's got to be a middle-ground.

Ultimately, this arc started off rough for me, but it really developed well. Mostly, I just hope we can get back to a normal color palette now.

Spoiler: Predictions

Show

Alright. We have two more episodes this season, and I have some pretty confident ideas about how they will play out.

• This upcoming episode will be comprised mostly of:
  • The Zephyr attempts to evade (and ultimately succeeds at it) its attackers, and gets to the sub.
  • The Zephyr and/or Quake damages the sub.
  • The inside team manages to subdue, but not destroy, the Russian, who will be trapped in a sinking sub.
  • Mack will sink inside the sub, killing him. Bear with me, because I have a hunch.
  • This will cover most or all of the episode, with a bit at the end showing a thoroughly mentally-messed-up Fitz and a creepy yandere Aida.
• The finale will consist of:
  • The team goes to rescue Fitz.
  • Fitz has a meltdown over whether he is a good person, considers killing himself with Aida.
  • Simmons gets through to him, Fitz chooses her over Aida.
  • Aida loses her **** mind.
  • Mack returns. Hey, do you remember that time Mack was possessed by a flaming skull guy and sort of made a compact with him? I don't think Mack gets to die that easily.
  • Aida gets what's coming to her.
  • Cliffhanger reveal.

We'll see.

[LaZodiac]

Spoiler

Show

I actually really like your idea that Mack gets removed by the framework by him dying...and the Spirit of Vengeance saying "no". That's fascinating an idea. I don't think it'll happen, but wow.

[Beleriphon]

On Aida

Spoiler

Show

I assumed the teleport was something she picked from Darkhold.

[Red Fel]

Spoiler

Show

I actually really like your idea that Mack gets removed by the framework by him dying...and the Spirit of Vengeance saying "no". That's fascinating an idea. I don't think it'll happen, but wow.

Actually, my reason for this is a pretty major spoiler that's been revealed for the season finale.

Don't open the spoilers below (or quote this post) unless you want a pretty big spoiler.

Spoiler: Major Spoiler

Show

Spoiler: Seriously, You've Been Warned

Show

Robbie Reyes will be making an appearance in the season finale. Source.

Way I see it, if Mack is still in the Framework and/or dead, the Rider will more or less pull him out.

[Swaoeaeieu]

How did we miss the obvious thread name?
Agents of shield: Cut off Brett Dalton and another one shall take his place? (or somesuch hydra sentence)
i mean, that dude just keeps coming back to the show doesnt he? XD

[Reddish Mage]

On Aida

Spoiler

Show

I assumed the teleport was something she picked from Darkhold.

Spoiler: Its a magical world

Show

I also figured the teleportation was magical. I don't think Aida is Inhuman. After all, she wants to "be human," why go halfway when the Darkhold could let her be human and give her magic powers too.

We've already seen that other humans who have used the Darkhold acquire powers.

[LaZodiac]

Spoiler: Its a magical world

Show

I also figured the teleportation was magical. I don't think Aida is Inhuman. After all, she wants to "be human," why go halfway when the Darkhold could let her be human and give her magic powers too.

We've already seen that other humans who have used the Darkhold acquire powers.

This is definitely one of those "well find out next time" questions. I'm leaning a bit towards "it's magic". But it might be Inhuman, and this could be a lead in to the Inhuman series which is happening by the way.

[Yana]

Spoiler: Are spoilers really necessary?

Show

I'm hoping against hope that the Human 3-D printer will be used to res someone else once Aida is dealt with. As much as I'd love Brett Dalton to come back, it strikes me as unlikely that the rest of the team will want even Good!Ward on their side.

[The New Bruceski]

I think we're gonna get Hope. Maybe opening up for Devil Dinosaur next season.

[Chen]

Spoiler: Are spoilers really necessary?

Show

I'm hoping against hope that the Human 3-D printer will be used to res someone else once Aida is dealt with. As much as I'd love Brett Dalton to come back, it strikes me as unlikely that the rest of the team will want even Good!Ward on their side.

Spoiler

Show

As mentioned before that new printer should only work to bring actual minds back out of the Framework. I find it laughable that Aida would have somehow created full minds for absolutely every being in her created Framework.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Spoiler

Show

As mentioned before that new printer should only work to bring actual minds back out of the Framework. I find it laughable that Aida would have somehow created full minds for absolutely every being in her created Framework.

No, but she needs to create them for every person that interacts with the real humans she stuck in the simulation, because Mac would get really suspicious if his daughter didn't act like a real child. Aida can get away with not simulating anyone in India as long as her captives don't interact with any of them, and probably take shortcuts with most people around the heroes, but the moment they regularly interact with someone, that someone needs a full mind.

IIRC, each of us tends to interact with about 50-odd people on a regular basis; for 6 prisoners, that's 300 minds. Say she's careful and goes for a couple thousands, just in case. Still a far cry from having simulated 7.5 billion minds.

GW

[Spacewolf]

Spoiler

Show

As mentioned before that new printer should only work to bring actual minds back out of the Framework. I find it laughable that Aida would have somehow created full minds for absolutely every being in her created Framework.

Spoiler

Show

I dunno this is supposed to be a magic quantum computer, with the level of personality we've seen from some of the inhabitants it seems like it could qualify as it's own universe.

[MikelaC1]

If this is indeed the last season of SHIELD as some are implying, I have just one request. NO CLIFFHANGER endings that will never be resolved. TV has too many of them.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

If this is indeed the last season of SHIELD as some are implying, I have just one request. NO CLIFFHANGER endings that will never be resolved. TV has too many of them.

FWIW, Cancellation Bear thinks they'll get one more season. Still a rumour, but one with a significant expertise behind it.

GW

[The New Bruceski]

Every year has had folks loudly and confidently claiming it'll be the final year. I agree about cliffhanger finales (man, The Finder was a downer note), but don't go jumping the gun.

[Rogar Demonblud]

FWIW, Cancellation Bear thinks they'll get one more season. Still a rumour, but one with a significant expertise behind it.

GW

Cancel Bear has a sub-30% success rate on predictions, FWIW. Hard to predict what the suits will do these days.

edit: for example, CB wasn't predicting Emerald City would get the axe last time I checked, but it did.

[Zalabim]

Spoiler

Show

As mentioned before that new printer should only work to bring actual minds back out of the Framework. I find it laughable that Aida would have somehow created full minds for absolutely every being in her created Framework.

Spoiler

Show

Aida herself is completely artificial, and it worked for her.

[hustlertwo]

Completely serious, I assure you.

Spoiler

Show

When Aida teleported out with Fitz, I spent a few moments just blinking and staring at the screen in surprise. I expected Aida's human body to be a prime specimen of humanity, in perfect health with 99th percentile or above in all normal human capabilities - strength, speed, reflexes, toughness, scientific/mathematical intelligence, etc. I did not expect her to have outright blatant superpowers.

New prediction:

Spoiler

Show

Aida's newly acquired human feelings and emotions will be her downfall. She may even develop genuine love for Fitz, and sacrifice herself for his sake or be emotionally crushed (to the point of either suicide or fatal distraction) by him rejecting her.

I fell somewhere between you and Dragonexx. Fitz talking about her new body being strong made me instantly assume she would be powered. But I took that literally, and figured we would have another person with Mace-level muscles, maybe enhanced durability so killing her would be tough. The bamf still completely surprised both me and my wife, and I guess means she could have any number of powers tucked away in her new frame.