Wizards' Guild IC

[AvatarVecna]

@AvatarVecna, why would that imply I'm a wolf?

Also, this game was fun. Being a wolf is interesting.

AND: JeenLeen always seems town, but never is.

Your immediate concern wasn't with how we as good townies intended to hunt down the wolves, your concern was with exactly how much information my scry gave me about you. A townie isn't worried about getting scried, generally speaking, so it's telling when you are. honestly though I'm not even sure why my claim held up with y'all as long as it did - you had to know I was at least partially bull****ting you when I claimed to have scried the spellthief N1, and then ST didn't get a scry power N2.

Later, when I called you out in wolf chat and then magically you popped up for the first time in days, claiming a role that I'd seen not even a hint of evidence for in all my networking, did you precisely zero favors on that front.

EDIT: So the ****-talking you to town to get in good with BoP was useful for connecting with town on my part, but it was partially also so I could throw you to the not-wolves if I needed to, planting the seeds of distrust early on. And if the wolves ever turned around and were like "you helped get a wolf lynched how could you" I could be all like "I DiDnT KnOw ShE WaS A WoLf" to passive-aggressively punish y'all for not being more upfront with me. Mind you, however harsh that would've been if it happened, it's nowhere near as harsh as I was with Alandra lol

[flat_footed]

I gotta say, AV, you telling the Bard that you hoped the Bard wasn't in play was highly amusing.

[flyinglemur]

For the record BOP, I wasn’t trying to play you, I actually wanted town to win because I thought that would be more fun. I was almost certain Alandra was a wolf, but I guess not. Honestly, I achieved my personal victory the minute I made my neutral role claim, after that no one else really seemed to care about killing me, and I just wanted to do some fun work, and maybe help Elenna pull off a neutral win.

[BasketOfPuppies]

For the record BOP, I wasn’t trying to play you, I actually wanted town to win because I thought that would be more fun. I was almost certain Alandra was a wolf, but I guess not. Honestly, I achieved my personal victory the minute I made my neutral role claim, after that no one else really seemed to care about killing me, and I just wanted to do some fun work, and maybe help Elenna pull off a neutral win.

Yeah, I was mainly referring to AV.

[AvatarVecna]

I go on in WW Main about how neutrals have a bad position because nobody can really trust them, become a neutral, privately network with basically every living player, tell them upfront that I'm a neutral who's only in it for myself and that they need to be careful trusting me, and somehow every single side was totally fine working with me. By all rights D2 should've been "AV is being sneaky in private with me" "hey me too" "hey me too" and then that's me lynched for playing everybody.

[BasketOfPuppies]

Your post in WW Main convinced me to be nicer to neutrals. Shows what I know.

[kgato503]

Good game everyone!

It was interesting seeing all the networking from the wolf side of things (we shared basically everything), albeit a little confusing at times (who has claimed what to who now?). I'm (almost) sorry to say that I found The Outsider's death highly amusing.

[gac3]

I claimed my role to:

AvatarVecna: During day 2 I believe, because I thought they were the Enchanter. I had a good feeling they weren't a wolf but I had copied them the first night to Target flying lemur. Flying lemur claimed to have been blocked so I figured I had done that, making AV the enchanter or bard.

Flyinglemur & BasketofPuppies: They both publicly claimed to have a scrying power. I figured we might be able to coordinate our abilities to get as much info as possible.

I would have claimed to Alandra because I scried her night 2 and discovered she was a wolf.

Also I trusted AV despite knowing they would be playing both sides simply because I didn't see much harm in it with what little information I had.

[JeenLeen]

AND: JeenLeen always seems town, but never is.

I think my play style is being talkative, at least if I have time to. So, um, don't assume I'm a wolf if I'm helpful next game. Sorta like Xihirli. Don't assume she's a wolf because she talks about killing everyone. Right?

I go on in WW Main about how neutrals have a bad position because nobody can really trust them, become a neutral, privately network with basically every living player, tell them upfront that I'm a neutral who's only in it for myself and that they need to be careful trusting me, and somehow every single side was totally fine working with me. By all rights D2 should've been "AV is being sneaky in private with me" "hey me too" "hey me too" and then that's me lynched for playing everybody.

After you didn't out us that Night I revealed myself as the sorcerer, I trusted you. I figured you might be lying about what you actually did that night, but things progressed such that you were guaranteed to win if you stayed with the wolves, so no reason for you to betray us.
I'm surprised to hear you planned to abjure Elenna (and not yourself) the did-not-come night, but that wouldn't've messed anything up. Pretty sure we would have voided Elenna and killed a town. Either BoP or maybe alexei just in case they came from inactivity.
I figured you lied to Caerulea, but that such was just lying to town or night 1 prodding.

I guess it's good we didn't go all up-front with you. I wanted to trust you more and tell you who the wolves were, but the other wolves talked me down from it. Good move

EDIT

I was at least partially bull****ting you when I claimed to have scried the spellthief N1, and then ST didn't get a scry power N2.

Somehow I completely missed that. Maybe the other wolves noticed, but I think we accepted your statement to Caerulea. But I think we all figured that, if you were lying about your powers, it was to keep some stuff secret in case you needed to surprise someone later.

[The Outsider]

Good game everyone!

It was interesting seeing all the networking from the wolf side of things (we shared basically everything), albeit a little confusing at times (who has claimed what to who now?). I'm (almost) sorry to say that I found The Outsider's death highly amusing.

My death was awesome. I got to have a huge multi-character death scene and everything. The only thing that leaves me dissatisfied is the question of why I took every attack from everyone. Still, not complaining. That was fun.

[JeenLeen]

My death was awesome. I got to have a huge multi-character death scene and everything. The only thing that leaves me dissatisfied is the question of why I took every attack from everyone. Still, not complaining. That was fun.

From the wolves: we tried to pick someone who was a little bit active. Thus, likely not baned and not someone whose voting activity was really pro- or anti-us. Just a safe kill that wouldn't give much info.
I think we were vacillating between you and Elenna. It would've been curious if we discovered her as night-kill-immune on the first night. Not sure if it would have changed much, though.

[Grand Arbiter]

My death was awesome. I got to have a huge multi-character death scene and everything. The only thing that leaves me dissatisfied is the question of why I took every attack from everyone. Still, not complaining. That was fun.

*de-lurks*

So, I was the Evoker, and was pretty much shooting randomly based on wild guesses/speculation/hunches. Definitely not one of my better WW games.

*re-lurks*

[Elenna]

Was not expecting Alandra to be a wolf. Goddamit BoP/flyinglemur, this is why I was questioning how you were so certain based on one scry and a bunch of claims.

Anyways, yeah, pretty much figured from the beginning I wouldn't achieve my win condition. Eventually someone was going to ask me for a claim and then I'd have a problem when the inevitable counterclaim came. I'm glad I at least managed to survive to the end of the game.
I was going to comment at the end of the game that games where all the roles are known are very favorable to town because they can just make everyone claim and then sort things out, but I guess the wolves proved me wrong... Good pre-planning on flatfooted's part. People are generally more willing to believe the claim they hear first, which is... sort of valid, in that wolves usually hesitate to fake-claim, but not always.

So the assassin really was immune to a Night Kill? Could they have survived one lynch as well, as claimed?

Also, was it possible that The Outsider/paladin could have killed me (sorcerer) Night 1 if that gang-up hadn't happened?
If they did a duel during the Day, did they automatically win?

---

I think flat_footed almost getting lynched Day 2 was the biggest nervous moment for us wolves. AvatarVecna proposing an alliance really sealed the win. And two inactive townies plus the randomly unassigned role being town gave us a strong advantage.

My claim was almost complete BS, I just threw in that one-shot lynch immunity in the hope that it would make people hesitate to lynch me. Maybe I shouldn't have added the night-kill immunity on top of it, but I wanted at least one part of my claim to be provable.

And yeah, 7 townies to 4 wolves is... not exactly the most balanced ratio ever.

I go on in WW Main about how neutrals have a bad position because nobody can really trust them, become a neutral, privately network with basically every living player, tell them upfront that I'm a neutral who's only in it for myself and that they need to be careful trusting me, and somehow every single side was totally fine working with me. By all rights D2 should've been "AV is being sneaky in private with me" "hey me too" "hey me too" and then that's me lynched for playing everybody.

Eh, personally I figured you probably weren't completely sincere, but also I had enough people to kill without wasting deaths on neutrals.

My death was awesome. I got to have a huge multi-character death scene and everything. The only thing that leaves me dissatisfied is the question of why I took every attack from everyone. Still, not complaining. That was fun.

Yeah, basically what JeenLeen said:

From the wolves: we tried to pick someone who was a little bit active. Thus, likely not baned and not someone whose voting activity was really pro- or anti-us. Just a safe kill that wouldn't give much info.

I figured I wanted to make the game last longer, so I wanted to kill someone that didn't help either side too much. Thus, not someone completely quiet (because those kinds of people usually bog down Town late-game), but also not someone too talkative or who was part of the weird voting stuff end of D1. I considered Alexei, decided I didn't want to kill a first-time player, realized you fit what I wanted, and sent in the kill.

- - - Updated - - -

From the wolf QT:

"AV coulda gotten the idea from Elenna, but she's saying Elenna got it from her."

Got it from myself, actually It's one of the roles I'm considering for the game I plan to run, although the exact abilities will be somewhat different. Also the public description did say "you have a bag of tricks".
Before AV contacted me I was planning to claim the neutral survivor role, hope the real neutral contacted me instead of counterclaiming, and then play the "I can kill people for you" card when it inevitably all came crashing down.

(Oh, yeah, and I totally picked up on "JeenLeen shouldn't know about the other abjurer claim" but I assumed it meant she and Alandra were wolves together and she was trying to distance herself. Oops.)

[Xihirli]

I think my play style is being talkative, at least if I have time to. So, um, don't assume I'm a wolf if I'm helpful next game. Sorta like Xihirli. Don't assume she's a wolf because she talks about killing everyone. Right?

When have I ever said any of those words?

[The Outsider]

Interesting. The funny thing is, I'm normally a bit more confident when it comes to these types of games. But both times now, I've been a role that can't win if they die, and it's been nerve-wracking. But I'll certainly keep those thoughts in mind, so that next game I can get my rev- er, play better. Yes, that.