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    Default Re: My Little Pony XIX: I Emptied Your Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kindablue View Post
    That came off as arbitrary to me, too. Both of those episodes would have been better had they done more world building early on and explained how unicorn magic is supposed to work.
    Ah, but they don't dare. Much like they'll never publish an official map of Equestria so they can add, say, a Russia equivalent for an episode when the fancy strikes them, they don't dare establish real rules for Unicorn magic because then in a later episode, when they need Twilight to do something they said Unicorn magic can't do, they're sunk.
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    Default Re: My Little Pony XIX: I Emptied Your Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grif View Post
    Probably could swap to that Lyra is a bipedal pic. She looks appropriately insane there.
    How about this instead:


    Quote Originally Posted by EsperDerek View Post
    A Midnight Nightmare, Excerpt #7:
    Wonderful stuff Esper! I haven't said much on this before, but these are really interesting.

    Just one minor question though: If Luna is (one of) Midnight's mothers, why is Celestia her "gammy"? Shouldn't she be her aunt (because she's Luna's sister)? Or is that just another part of Midnight's odd family tree?
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    Default Re: My Little Pony XIX: I Emptied Your Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by darthbobcat View Post
    Y'know, I've said it before and I'll say it again: I fail to see the practical difference between a cursed plant and a plant that somehow knows exactly how to magically prank you. For that matter, as much as she was trying to distinguish her magic from curses, once magic is in the picture, it's a meaningless distinction. If Twilight had to mix chemicals to make alchemical effects, and that's how her magic worked, fine. But as long as her magic works by "horn glows, stuff happens," to my mind Twilight was just insisting on her terminology.

    There's no such thing as curses. Magic has predictable, distinct effects.

    But we just got cursed by a nonsentient entity in personalized ways.

    LALALALALALA NO SUCH THINGS AS CURSES THE BOOKS TOLD ME SO.
    I don't know. Ignoring facts and forcing everything into certain thought patterns to uphold some naming schemes and paradigms they once learned and subscribed to sounds like something a real scientist would do.

    Quote Originally Posted by darthbobcat View Post
    It gave us two good things. 1) Quills and Sofas. 2) Scootaloo being adorably obsessive about sucking up to Dash.
    Uh, forgot about those. Now Owl That Ends Well just gained a few points.
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  4. - Top - End - #664
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    Default Re: My Little Pony XIX: I Emptied Your Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by EsperDerek View Post
    A Midnight Nightmare, Excerpt #7:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Love isn't mindless adoration.

    The protective spells woven around the library were potent in power, but half-hearted in design. Momma and Mom didn't want to fight, didn't want to hurt her, and so it was a simple matter to snap the weave of the spells, destroying the protection...

    Friendship isn't absolute obedience.

    The doors to the library were now undefended, the last shelter of those unchanged open to her.

    What you are doing to protect me from loss and loneliness will only insure it. Love and friendship can only come from ponies being ponies, to clash and mingle, and to remember that we are never, truly, alone, unless we give up on them.

    She knew that.
    She knew that.

    She knew she had failed her. She knew that she had misunderstood, had allowed her own worry, pain and doubt to misguide her, and now...and now...

    Only because she wanted to protect her...

    Only because she loved her...


    It's not too late. I understand the spell now. It can be so easily broken. We can stop this.

    It was too late. They would never forgive her now. Nopony would ever look at her in the same way, they would hate her, they would never love her again.

    The best...the best she could offer her was this.

    The doors to the library shattered open.


    You're wrong.

    There they were. The remaining ponies. Her remaining Aunts.

    There they were. Front and center, her Momma and her Mom, slowly stepping towards her.


    It's not too late for forgiveness.

    There was fear in their eyes...but not for themselves. Fear for her. Desperation, but not for their plight, but hers.

    They forgave Momma Luna.

    They were here. The Princesses, Princess Mommy and Gammy, in all their glory. If she were to defeat them, she would need to capture her Momma now. But, they were not full of wrath, but love, and the words they were speaking, all four of them, not just them, all of them...

    They forgave Mom.

    Come back to us.
    Let us help you.
    Don't give up on us.

    We love you.


    They will forgive you.

    Please....
    Please...


    I forgive you.

    Knees buckled. Tears spilled. They collapsed to the floor.

    They spoke, for the first time, as one.

    "Please help me!"


    EDIT: Fixed some grammar and formatting issues.
    Wow. Splendiferous work with this. I look forward to the conclusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by darthbobcat View Post
    Y'know, I've said it before and I'll say it again: I fail to see the practical difference between a cursed plant and a plant that somehow knows exactly how to magically prank you. For that matter, as much as she was trying to distinguish her magic from curses, once magic is in the picture, it's a meaningless distinction. If Twilight had to mix chemicals to make alchemical effects, and that's how her magic worked, fine. But as long as her magic works by "horn glows, stuff happens," to my mind Twilight was just insisting on her terminology.

    There's no such thing as curses. Magic has predictable, distinct effects.

    But we just got cursed by a nonsentient entity in personalized ways.

    LALALALALALA NO SUCH THINGS AS CURSES THE BOOKS TOLD ME SO.
    I think that the reason that Twilight is so insistent on the terminology because this is a case where the magic is sufficiently analyzed to be indistinguishable from science. Despite the fact that there is no practical difference between a curse, and a personalized prank, Twilight is probably insistent on the distinction because only the latter description is useful to her. It's kinda like how there is no practical difference between using pounds (weight) and grams (mass), but there is an important distinction for scientists.

    That being said, I could imagine Twilight trying to study the poison joke in order to find out just how it performs those pranks. Is it some kind of spore? Oils secreted by the leaves? Is it intended to scare away animals that would eat poison joke, and simply has this unintended effect on Ponies, or does it affect all animals like this?
    Last edited by Vent Reynolt; 2011-08-07 at 12:39 PM.
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    Default Re: My Little Pony XIX: I Emptied Your Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by darthbobcat View Post
    Y'know, I've said it before and I'll say it again: I fail to see the practical difference between a cursed plant and a plant that somehow knows exactly how to magically prank you. For that matter, as much as she was trying to distinguish her magic from curses, once magic is in the picture, it's a meaningless distinction. If Twilight had to mix chemicals to make alchemical effects, and that's how her magic worked, fine. But as long as her magic works by "horn glows, stuff happens," to my mind Twilight was just insisting on her terminology.

    There's no such thing as curses. Magic has predictable, distinct effects.

    But we just got cursed by a nonsentient entity in personalized ways.

    LALALALALALA NO SUCH THINGS AS CURSES THE BOOKS TOLD ME SO.
    It does seem a little poorly thought out, I'll admit. But perhaps it's simply Twilight knowing that Zecora is not a unicorn and thus can't do magic. And because she doesn't know about the Poison Joke, she has no reason to believe that anything Zecora might do could result in anything curse-like. Obviously magic could do those things to the six ponies, but Zecora supposedly can't do magic. Maybe that's her reason for dismissing the "curse" idea.

    She does it again in Feeling Pinkie Keen, dismissing the idea that Pinkie's sense could be magic, or similar to magic anyway. Her given reason there is pretty lame, but it would be reasonable if she assumed non-unicorns can't possibly do magic (which might be wrong too)

  6. - Top - End - #666
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    Default Re: My Little Pony XIX: I Emptied Your Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Castel View Post
    I know I said I didn't like it the first time I saw it, but Pinkie Keen is OK because:

    Spoiler
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    Honk.
    Eeeheeheeheeheehee *smack* Ahem. Ignore that.

    Quote Originally Posted by darthbobcat View Post
    It gave us two good things. 1) Quills and Sofas. 2) Scootaloo being adorably obsessive about sucking up to Dash.
    3) Spikely Whiplash. I'm surprised he didn't tie something to a random section of railroad tracks for the hay of it.

  7. - Top - End - #667
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    Default Re: My Little Pony XIX: I Emptied Your Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by darthbobcat View Post
    Ah, but they don't dare. Much like they'll never publish an official map of Equestria so they can add, say, a Russia equivalent for an episode when the fancy strikes them, they don't dare establish real rules for Unicorn magic because then in a later episode, when they need Twilight to do something they said Unicorn magic can't do, they're sunk.
    All we needed to know was how Twilight thought unicorn magic works (and therefor how books say it works), not how it actually works, to understand her problem with curses and non-unicorn premonitions. They could also make maps and later say that the cartographers who made them didn't know that the Russia equivalent existed, or the lord that commissioned them hates Pony Stalin, or dozens of other explanations that seven year old girls would be fine with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sweetie Welf View Post
    I don't know. Ignoring facts and forcing everything into certain thought patterns to uphold some naming schemes and paradigms they once learned and subscribed to sounds like something a real scientist economist would do.
    Certainly is.
    Last edited by Kindablue; 2011-08-07 at 12:49 PM.

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    Default Re: My Little Pony XIX: I Emptied Your Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by EsperDerek View Post
    A Midnight Nightmare, Excerpt #7:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Love isn't mindless adoration.

    The protective spells woven around the library were potent in power, but half-hearted in design. Momma and Mom didn't want to fight, didn't want to hurt her, and so it was a simple matter to snap the weave of the spells, destroying the protection...

    Friendship isn't absolute obedience.

    The doors to the library were now undefended, the last shelter of those unchanged open to her.

    What you are doing to protect me from loss and loneliness will only insure it. Love and friendship can only come from ponies being ponies, to clash and mingle, and to remember that we are never, truly, alone, unless we give up on them.

    She knew that.
    She knew that.

    She knew she had failed her. She knew that she had misunderstood, had allowed her own worry, pain and doubt to misguide her, and now...and now...

    Only because she wanted to protect her...

    Only because she loved her...


    It's not too late. I understand the spell now. It can be so easily broken. We can stop this.

    It was too late. They would never forgive her now. Nopony would ever look at her in the same way, they would hate her, they would never love her again.

    The best...the best she could offer her was this.

    The doors to the library shattered open.


    You're wrong.

    There they were. The remaining ponies. Her remaining Aunts.

    There they were. Front and center, her Momma and her Mom, slowly stepping towards her.


    It's not too late for forgiveness.

    There was fear in their eyes...but not for themselves. Fear for her. Desperation, but not for their plight, but hers.

    They forgave Momma Luna.

    They were here. The Princesses, Princess Mommy and Gammy, in all their glory. If she were to defeat them, she would need to capture her Momma now. But, they were not full of wrath, but love, and the words they were speaking, all four of them, not just them, all of them...

    They forgave Mom.

    Come back to us.
    Let us help you.
    Don't give up on us.

    We love you.


    They will forgive you.

    Please....
    Please...


    I forgive you.

    Knees buckled. Tears spilled. They collapsed to the floor.

    They spoke, for the first time, as one.

    "Please help me!"


    EDIT: Fixed some grammar and formatting issues.
    Yet another wonderful excerpt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diego Havoc View Post
    How about this instead:
    I think I already used that vector for my Blogger account.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadly View Post
    It does seem a little poorly thought out, I'll admit. But perhaps it's simply Twilight knowing that Zecora is not a unicorn and thus can't do magic. And because she doesn't know about the Poison Joke, she has no reason to believe that anything Zecora might do could result in anything curse-like. Obviously magic could do those things to the six ponies, but Zecora supposedly can't do magic. Maybe that's her reason for dismissing the "curse" idea.

    She does it again in Feeling Pinkie Keen, dismissing the idea that Pinkie's sense could be magic, or similar to magic anyway. Her given reason there is pretty lame, but it would be reasonable if she assumed non-unicorns can't possibly do magic (which might be wrong too)
    To be honest, in most of what is shown in the show indicates that only (visible) magic are unicorn magic. Since Twilight spends most of her life cooped up in Canterlot and possibly the library, there is really no reason for her to challenge that belief, especially since Canterlot has no oddities like Zecora or Pinkie Sense.

  9. - Top - End - #669
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    Default Re: My Little Pony XIX: I Emptied Your Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Grif View Post
    To be honest, in most of what is shown in the show indicates that only (visible) magic are unicorn magic. Since Twilight spends most of her life cooped up in Canterlot and possibly the library, there is really no reason for her to challenge that belief, especially since Canterlot has no oddities like Zecora or Pinkie Sense.
    Indeed, which is why I think that would be a perfectly acceptable reason for her to use when dismissing Pinkie's sense or Zecora's "curse". Instead she uses the claim that "magic has predictable effects" which is blatantly wrong, just look at Rarity's cutie mark story and how she had no apparent control of her magic or its effect.

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    Default Re: My Little Pony XIX: I Emptied Your Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadly View Post
    Indeed, which is why I think that would be a perfectly acceptable reason for her to use when dismissing Pinkie's sense or Zecora's "curse". Instead she uses the claim that "magic has predictable effects" which is blatantly wrong, just look at Rarity's cutie mark story and how she had no apparent control of her magic or its effect.
    Again, she never heard of the story before, so she wouldn't know that. It's a reasonable assumption if we assume magic IS mostly predictable. Indeed I think ponies treat magic almost like a science. Which means predictable cause and effect.

    I would say this is a case of wilful ignorance combined with lack of exposure to the wider world of Equestria. You'll be surprised how people cling to their beliefs even in the face of contrary evidence.

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    Default Re: My Little Pony XIX: I Emptied Your Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Diego Havoc View Post
    Wonderful stuff Esper! I haven't said much on this before, but these are really interesting.

    Just one minor question though: If Luna is (one of) Midnight's mothers, why is Celestia her "gammy"? Shouldn't she be her aunt (because she's Luna's sister)? Or is that just another part of Midnight's odd family tree?
    She is her aunt, and both of them realize it. But when Midnight was *a lot* younger, she referred to Celestia as her 'Gammy', and it delighted the Princess so much she kept encouraging it.

    In an OOC reason, it's sort of a reference as how Celestia acts as Twilight's 'mother' figure, ergo, any child Twilight would have, she would act as her 'Grandmother' figure.

    (Blame Inkwell for that. He came up with it.)

    And thanks, everypony, for the compliments. I never really expected to extend this, this far when I did the first one, it started as just a small thought in my brain.

    I'm trying to figure out the conclusion, but the problem is, I have three options and I'm not sure which one I actually want to select.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kindablue View Post
    Certainly is.
    If economists were capable of emotions I might be offended.
    But to quote Max planck: “A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it”. You should note that he was a physicist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grif View Post
    Again, she never heard of the story before, so she wouldn't know that. It's a reasonable assumption if we assume magic IS mostly predictable. Indeed I think ponies treat magic almost like a science. Which means predictable cause and effect.

    I would say this is a case of wilful ignorance combined with lack of exposure to the wider world of Equestria. You'll be surprised how people cling to their beliefs even in the face of contrary evidence.
    Well, maybe that was a bad example, but IIRC there's an instance in one of the early episodes where Twilight teleports herself and Spike to the library, and she says, again IIRC "I didn't know that would happen". Correct me if I'm wrong.

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    Default Re: My Little Pony XIX: I Emptied Your Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by EsperDerek View Post
    She is her aunt, and both of them realize it. But when Midnight was *a lot* younger, she referred to Celestia as her 'Gammy', and it delighted the Princess so much she kept encouraging it.

    In an OOC reason, it's sort of a reference as how Celestia acts as Twilight's 'mother' figure, ergo, any child Twilight would have, she would act as her 'Grandmother' figure.

    (Blame Inkwell for that. He came up with it.)

    And thanks, everypony, for the compliments. I never really expected to extend this, this far when I did the first one, it started as just a small thought in my brain.

    I'm trying to figure out the conclusion, but the problem is, I have three options and I'm not sure which one I actually want to select.
    Preview?

    Else, put it up for a mystery vote right here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadly View Post
    Well, maybe that was a bad example, but IIRC there's an instance in one of the early episodes where Twilight teleports herself and Spike to the library, and she says, again IIRC "I didn't know that would happen". Correct me if I'm wrong.
    It's in Ticket Master. Exact words were "I didn't even know that was going to happen."

    Huh. Accidental discharge of magic?
    Last edited by Grif; 2011-08-07 at 01:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grif View Post
    It's in Ticket Master. Exact words were "I didn't even know that was going to happen."

    Huh. Accidental discharge of magic?
    Ah, right, that's where it was.

    And even more, there's Twilight's own cutie mark story (don't tell me she never heard of that one ) I can't believe I forgot that one. She clearly had NO control of her magic before she began studying under Celestia.
    Last edited by Deadly; 2011-08-07 at 01:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweetie Welf View Post
    If economists were capable of emotions I might be offended.
    But to quote Max planck: “A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it”. You should note that he was a physicist.
    I think if we tried to explain quantum mechanics to Blaise Pascal, with some examples, he would ultimately accept it. But I doubt he would be very good at furthering the scientific frontier. The new generation's familiarity not only implies acceptance, but also having the new theory studied from youth, knowing it well enough to actually be able to improve it.

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    Default Re: My Little Pony XIX: I Emptied Your Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadly View Post
    Indeed, which is why I think that would be a perfectly acceptable reason for her to use when dismissing Pinkie's sense or Zecora's "curse". Instead she uses the claim that "magic has predictable effects" which is blatantly wrong, just look at Rarity's cutie mark story and how she had no apparent control of her magic or its effect.
    As you well know, unicorn magic is tied strongly to its user's mental state. Obviously, young Rarity's desire to make those costumes shine, combined with her desire to find just the right inspiration to do so, created in her mind, the perfect conditions to unknowingly cast that gem finding spell. We can extrapolate then, that this is a spell that is powered by desire; a desire, peppered with a certain degree of charity. Young Rarity couldn't control the spell yet because she, and in fact nearly all fillies her age, would have had difficulty in exerting the degree of control over their emotions required to use magic.
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    Default Re: My Little Pony XIX: I Emptied Your Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sweetie Welf View Post
    If economists were capable of emotions I might be offended.
    But to quote Max planck: “A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it”. You should note that he was a physicist.
    Of course. I think it's going a bit far to imply that most or all of them have that problem, but it is definitely there.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vent Reynolt View Post
    As you well know, unicorn magic is tied strongly to its user's mental state. Obviously, young Rarity's desire to make those costumes shine, combined with her desire to find just the right inspiration to do so, created in her mind, the perfect conditions to unknowingly cast that gem finding spell. We can extrapolate then, that this is a spell that is powered by desire; a desire, peppered with a certain degree of charity. Young Rarity couldn't control the spell yet because she, and in fact nearly all fillies her age, would have had difficulty in exerting the degree of control over their emotions required to use magic.
    Like a baby black mamba, gotcha.
    Last edited by Kindablue; 2011-08-07 at 01:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vent Reynolt View Post
    As you well know, unicorn magic is tied strongly to its user's mental state. Obviously, young Rarity's desire to make those costumes shine, combined with her desire to find just the right inspiration to do so, created in her mind, the perfect conditions to unknowingly cast that gem finding spell. We can extrapolate then, that this is a spell that is powered by desire; a desire, peppered with a certain degree of charity. Young Rarity couldn't control the spell yet because she, and in fact nearly all fillies her age, would have had difficulty in exerting the degree of control over their emotions required to use magic.
    Ah, but let me quote:

    "Magic is something you study and practice, it only happens when you decide to do it, and it's meant to make something specific that you choose to happen, happen. With you it... makes no sense at all!" - Twilight Sparkle, Episode 15
    My emphasis. Tell me that's not blatantly wrong, given my three counter examples provided so far, two of which you must have known of at the time

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadly View Post
    Ah, right, that's where it was.

    And even more, there's Twilight's own cutie mark story (don't tell me she never heard of that one ) I can't believe I forgot that one. She clearly had NO control of her magic before she began studying under Celestia.
    Clearly Twilight is having selective memories.


    I have nothing here.

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    Default Re: My Little Pony XIX: I Emptied Your Thread

    Alright, sure, I certainly don't mind having a few extra ears on my ideas! Here's my three options that I'm thinking for the conclusion, I could use the advice on which one seems the best to conclude the story. I'll put it under spoilers, so people who don't want to see, don't click on it:

    A Midnight Nightmare Ending Options:
    Spoiler
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    Specifically, it concerns the status of Nightmare's existence. I've come up with three different options:

    a) For Midnight to be able to survive, the two must become one, and Nightmare volunteers to essentially be 'absorbed' into Midnight's soul. It's basically a sacrifice by Nightmare, for Midnight to insure her survival, and Nightmare pays it gladly out of her motherly love for Midnight. It could probably be the most poignant ending, but also the saddest. it also has a sense of reattaining the 'status-quo', which could be both good and bad. It also would go to show just how much Nightmare truly loves Midnight. This could be considered the "Nightmare as Midnight's Mother" ending.

    b) The two are separated into individual beings, Midnight and Nightmare, with Nightmare essentially becoming Midnight's new sister. If this were a month ago, this actually would likely be the option that I personally would select. It would allow for a new 'toy' to play with, essentially, with the easiest, least strange method of doing so. If you've been paying attention to the fandom at all, however, you know the problem with this ending, especially if I release it past this forum. Derivative. This could be considered the 'Nightmare as Midnight's Sister' ending.

    c) The two are not able to be separated, and one does not have to sacrifice themselves for the other to exist. Which means that, essentially, Midnight and Nightmare would co-exist in the same body. This is easily the strangest ending, but on the other hand, the mental interplay between the two have been the strongest aspect of these 'Excerpts', and it could be fun to play with that further down the line. It also emphasizes the point that Nightmare and Midnight really *are* a lot alike, and the fact that they shared all the same experiences. The problem, of course, is that it certainly could be considered weird. Right now, I actually kind of rather like this ending, because I'm weird. This could be considered the 'Nightmare and Midnight Together' ending. (AKA: They become truly 'Midnight Mare')

    Of course, if anypony has any different ides on how it should go, please, feel free to suggest it, I'm all ears.
    Last edited by EsperDerek; 2011-08-07 at 01:48 PM.

  22. - Top - End - #682
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    Default Re: My Little Pony XIX: I Emptied Your Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by EsperDerek View Post
    Alright, sure, I certainly don't mind having a few extra ears on my ideas! Here's my three options that I'm thinking for the conclusion, I could use the advice on which one seems the best to conclude the story. I'll put it under spoilers, so people who don't want to see, don't click on it:

    A Midnight Nightmare Ending Options:
    Spoiler
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    Specifically, it concerns the status of Nightmare's existence. I've come up with three different options:

    a) For Midnight to be able to survive, the two must become one, and Nightmare volunteers to essentially be 'absorbed' into Midnight's soul. It's basically a sacrifice by Nightmare, for Midnight to insure her survival, and Nightmare pays it gladly out of her motherly love for Midnight. It could probably be the most poignant ending, but also the saddest. it also has a sense of reattaining the 'status-quo', which could be both good and bad. It also would go to show just how much Nightmare truly loves Midnight. This could be considered the "Nightmare as Midnight's Mother" ending.

    b) The two are separated into individual beings, Midnight and Nightmare, with Nightmare essentially becoming Midnight's new sister. If this were a month ago, this actually would likely be the option that I personally would select. It would allow for a new 'toy' to play with, essentially, with the easiest, least strange method of doing so. If you've been paying attention to the fandom at all, however, you know the problem with this ending, especially if I release it past this forum. Derivative. This could be considered the 'Nightmare as Midnight's Sister' ending.

    c) The two are not able to be separated, and one does not have to sacrifice themselves for the other to exist. Which means that, essentially, Midnight and Nightmare would co-exist in the same body. This is easily the strangest ending, but on the other hand, the mental interplay between the two have been the strongest aspect of these 'Excerpts', and it could be fun to play with that further down the line. It also emphasizes the point that Nightmare and Midnight really *are* a lot alike, and the fact that they shared all the same experiences. The problem, of course, is that it certainly could be considered weird. Right now, I actually kind of rather like this ending, because I'm weird. This could be considered the 'Nightmare and Midnight Together' ending. (AKA: They become truly 'Midnight Mare')

    Of course, if anypony has any different ides on how it should go, please, feel free to suggest it, I'm all ears.
    Here I go.
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    Of the three, I'll say (a) is probably the most conventional and safest way to go about concluding this story. It'll probably be received well, though the poignant ending made me sad.

    (b) will obviously bring screams of NYX! clones and whatnot from Past Sins rabid fans. I think you won't be able to live down the outrage.

    Now, (c) intrigues me, primarily because of the sheer hilarity the interplay the two could potentially have. I personally favour this, because of the novel concept and the fact that split personalities are always interesting to write about. (My RP character has actually the same condition. Ironic. )

  23. - Top - End - #683
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    Default Re: My Little Pony XIX: I Emptied Your Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by EsperDerek View Post
    Alright, sure, I certainly don't mind having a few extra ears on my ideas! Here's my three options that I'm thinking for the conclusion, I could use the advice on which one seems the best to conclude the story. I'll put it under spoilers, so people who don't want to see, don't click on it:

    A Midnight Nightmare Ending Options:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Specifically, it concerns the status of Nightmare's existence. I've come up with three different options:

    a) For Midnight to be able to survive, the two must become one, and Nightmare volunteers to essentially be 'absorbed' into Midnight's soul. It's basically a sacrifice by Nightmare, for Midnight to insure her survival, and Nightmare pays it gladly out of her motherly love for Midnight. It could probably be the most poignant ending, but also the saddest. it also has a sense of reattaining the 'status-quo', which could be both good and bad. It also would go to show just how much Nightmare truly loves Midnight. This could be considered the "Nightmare as Midnight's Mother" ending.

    b) The two are separated into individual beings, Midnight and Nightmare, with Nightmare essentially becoming Midnight's new sister. If this were a month ago, this actually would likely be the option that I personally would select. It would allow for a new 'toy' to play with, essentially, with the easiest, least strange method of doing so. If you've been paying attention to the fandom at all, however, you know the problem with this ending, especially if I release it past this forum. Derivative. This could be considered the 'Nightmare as Midnight's Sister' ending.

    c) The two are not able to be separated, and one does not have to sacrifice themselves for the other to exist. Which means that, essentially, Midnight and Nightmare would co-exist in the same body. This is easily the strangest ending, but on the other hand, the mental interplay between the two have been the strongest aspect of these 'Excerpts', and it could be fun to play with that further down the line. It also emphasizes the point that Nightmare and Midnight really *are* a lot alike, and the fact that they shared all the same experiences. The problem, of course, is that it certainly could be considered weird. Right now, I actually kind of rather like this ending, because I'm weird. This could be considered the 'Nightmare and Midnight Together' ending. (AKA: They become truly 'Midnight Mare')

    Of course, if anypony has any different ides on how it should go, please, feel free to suggest it, I'm all ears.
    I'm going to go with
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    Option A honestly.
    Like Grif said, B does seem like what little I know of Nyx (who gave you conniptions as I recall ) and as for C... Well, I think we've already got at least 3 pony thread RP characters that communicate with artificial beings.
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    Thanks to Akrim.Elf for the awesome Laharl pony.

  24. - Top - End - #684
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    Default Re: My Little Pony XIX: I Emptied Your Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by EsperDerek View Post
    Alright, sure, I certainly don't mind having a few extra ears on my ideas! Here's my three options that I'm thinking for the conclusion, I could use the advice on which one seems the best to conclude the story. I'll put it under spoilers, so people who don't want to see, don't click on it:

    A Midnight Nightmare Ending Options:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Specifically, it concerns the status of Nightmare's existence. I've come up with three different options:

    a) For Midnight to be able to survive, the two must become one, and Nightmare volunteers to essentially be 'absorbed' into Midnight's soul. It's basically a sacrifice by Nightmare, for Midnight to insure her survival, and Nightmare pays it gladly out of her motherly love for Midnight. It could probably be the most poignant ending, but also the saddest. it also has a sense of reattaining the 'status-quo', which could be both good and bad. It also would go to show just how much Nightmare truly loves Midnight. This could be considered the "Nightmare as Midnight's Mother" ending.

    b) The two are separated into individual beings, Midnight and Nightmare, with Nightmare essentially becoming Midnight's new sister. If this were a month ago, this actually would likely be the option that I personally would select. It would allow for a new 'toy' to play with, essentially, with the easiest, least strange method of doing so. If you've been paying attention to the fandom at all, however, you know the problem with this ending, especially if I release it past this forum. Derivative. This could be considered the 'Nightmare as Midnight's Sister' ending.

    c) The two are not able to be separated, and one does not have to sacrifice themselves for the other to exist. Which means that, essentially, Midnight and Nightmare would co-exist in the same body. This is easily the strangest ending, but on the other hand, the mental interplay between the two have been the strongest aspect of these 'Excerpts', and it could be fun to play with that further down the line. It also emphasizes the point that Nightmare and Midnight really *are* a lot alike, and the fact that they shared all the same experiences. The problem, of course, is that it certainly could be considered weird. Right now, I actually kind of rather like this ending, because I'm weird. This could be considered the 'Nightmare and Midnight Together' ending. (AKA: They become truly 'Midnight Mare')

    Of course, if anypony has any different ides on how it should go, please, feel free to suggest it, I'm all ears.
    Spoiler
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    a) Not much to say here, only that this ending certainly can work, although you're right in saying that it rings heavily of "Status quo is god".

    b) Yeah, the timing of Past Sins absolutely ruins this. I would not advise this ending.

    c) Would this mean that either of them can control their body at any time, or that Nightmare is just chilling inside Midnight's head? It could also be a combination of both, with Nightmare taking a usually dormant, internal role, perhaps only interacting with her body to speak and interact with other ponies directly. This does bring up another problem; what happens when they disagree? Can one of them override the other? How does that affect their relationship?

    You know what? As I'm typing this, I'm liking C more and more. Yes, it would be weird. But their relationship is really what I like best about these excerpts, and it's worth exploring more.
    I'm developing a game. Let's see what happens! Complex.

  25. - Top - End - #685
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    Default Re: My Little Pony XIX: I Emptied Your Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by EsperDerek View Post
    Alright, sure, I certainly don't mind having a few extra ears on my ideas! Here's my three options that I'm thinking for the conclusion, I could use the advice on which one seems the best to conclude the story. I'll put it under spoilers, so people who don't want to see, don't click on it:

    A Midnight Nightmare Ending Options:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Specifically, it concerns the status of Nightmare's existence. I've come up with three different options:

    a) For Midnight to be able to survive, the two must become one, and Nightmare volunteers to essentially be 'absorbed' into Midnight's soul. It's basically a sacrifice by Nightmare, for Midnight to insure her survival, and Nightmare pays it gladly out of her motherly love for Midnight. It could probably be the most poignant ending, but also the saddest. it also has a sense of reattaining the 'status-quo', which could be both good and bad. It also would go to show just how much Nightmare truly loves Midnight. This could be considered the "Nightmare as Midnight's Mother" ending.

    b) The two are separated into individual beings, Midnight and Nightmare, with Nightmare essentially becoming Midnight's new sister. If this were a month ago, this actually would likely be the option that I personally would select. It would allow for a new 'toy' to play with, essentially, with the easiest, least strange method of doing so. If you've been paying attention to the fandom at all, however, you know the problem with this ending, especially if I release it past this forum. Derivative. This could be considered the 'Nightmare as Midnight's Sister' ending.

    c) The two are not able to be separated, and one does not have to sacrifice themselves for the other to exist. Which means that, essentially, Midnight and Nightmare would co-exist in the same body. This is easily the strangest ending, but on the other hand, the mental interplay between the two have been the strongest aspect of these 'Excerpts', and it could be fun to play with that further down the line. It also emphasizes the point that Nightmare and Midnight really *are* a lot alike, and the fact that they shared all the same experiences. The problem, of course, is that it certainly could be considered weird. Right now, I actually kind of rather like this ending, because I'm weird. This could be considered the 'Nightmare and Midnight Together' ending. (AKA: They become truly 'Midnight Mare')

    Of course, if anypony has any different ides on how it should go, please, feel free to suggest it, I'm all ears.
    I'm going to concur with Grif and Kris Strife, with the added opinion...
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    That I, personally, am not fond of the almost... schizophrenic, I guess, nature of option c, but that's just me.
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  26. - Top - End - #686
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    Default Re: My Little Pony XIX: I Emptied Your Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by EsperDerek View Post
    Alright, sure, I certainly don't mind having a few extra ears on my ideas! Here's my three options that I'm thinking for the conclusion, I could use the advice on which one seems the best to conclude the story. I'll put it under spoilers, so people who don't want to see, don't click on it:

    A Midnight Nightmare Ending Options:
    Spoiler
    Show
    b) The two are separated into individual beings, Midnight and Nightmare, with Nightmare essentially becoming Midnight's new sister. If this were a month ago, this actually would likely be the option that I personally would select. It would allow for a new 'toy' to play with, essentially, with the easiest, least strange method of doing so. If you've been paying attention to the fandom at all, however, you know the problem with this ending, especially if I release it past this forum. Derivative. This could be considered the 'Nightmare as Midnight's Sister' ending.
    Of course, if anypony has any different ides on how it should go, please, feel free to suggest it, I'm all ears.
    Spoiler
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    To be fair Nightmare-as-seperate-from-Luna is not a new concept, even taking Nyx into account. (One other extremely good fic that did it a totally different way is Lingering Darkness, where Nightmare (or Noctis as it called itself) was a sort of malevolent parasite.)

    So then, a suggestion: perhaps a Nyx-avoiding compromise would be to have Nightmare be released, but into a non-pony form of some type, if that is what you'd really rather happen in your heart of hearts. Just a thought.

  27. - Top - End - #687
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    Default Re: My Little Pony XIX: I Emptied Your Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadly View Post
    My emphasis. Tell me that's not blatantly wrong, given my three counter examples provided so far, two of which you must have known of at the time
    It's important to remember that using magic is sort of like flexing a muscle. Although in this case, it's more of a mental muscle. Young fillies often don't even realize that they are using magic until they actually start using it, and even when they do know, they usually have no idea how to control it. Just like learning to take your first steps, you are physically capable, but that doesn't mean that you know how to put one hoof in front of the other.

    So when I said that magic only happens when you decide it does, I was referring solely to fully-grown unicorns who should have no trouble controlling when they do magic.


    Quote Originally Posted by Deadly View Post
    Well, maybe that was a bad example, but IIRC there's an instance in one of the early episodes where Twilight teleports herself and Spike to the library, and she says, again IIRC "I didn't know that would happen". Correct me if I'm wrong.
    That time... Well, I panicked alright. I really wanted to escape, and my mind wandered to the safest place that I could think of, so I accidentally used the teleportation spell to get there. You see, I knew that I was using some sort of spell, but my frantic thoughts of escape made me forget that those thoughts of being someplace else were exactly the requirements to cast that spell.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadly View Post
    And even more, there's Twilight's own cutie mark story (don't tell me she never heard of that one ) I can't believe I forgot that one. She clearly had NO control of her magic before she began studying under Celestia.
    Like I said, I was talking only about fully grown unicorns having control over their magic. As for the spell I accidentally used; I have no idea. None of my books ever mentioned anything like it, and the Princess told me that it was because I was so nervous and scared, I started using all sorts of spells.



    Does this work, because I'm not sure that I am writing Twilight very well.

    Edit: @Esper: Darn it. I want to see the options, but I don't want to spoil the ending. I can't comment on options I haven't seen, so I'll instead say that whatever you choose, I'm sure that it'll turn out well.
    Last edited by Vent Reynolt; 2011-08-07 at 02:25 PM.
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  28. - Top - End - #688
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    Default Re: My Little Pony XIX: I Emptied Your Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sweetie Welf View Post
    I don't know. Ignoring facts and forcing everything into certain thought patterns to uphold some naming schemes and paradigms they once learned and subscribed to sounds like something a real scientist would do.
    Ah but that's Twilight. I don't think of her as a scientist. She's a scholar of, among other things, the sciences. It's very different; she reads about what scientists do, she performs clumsy experiments with no thought to control groups or specific hypotheses. She just hooked up Pinkie and got data, with no specific ideas of what she was looking for. She reads it in books and accepts it as gospel; the scientist who studied curses is likely much more open to correction if there turns out to be a real curse.

    This is not to disrespect Twilight. She's very good at what she does, which is the practical application of magic and general scholarship. She's very knowledgeable. If I want to know what the melting point of Boron is, Twilight's the one to talk to. However, generating ORIGINAL scholarship isn't her strong point (maybe that's why Celestia has given her the friendship mission; it's something that gets her some friends and social experience AND she can't just find all the answers in a book. She has to reach her own conclusions, not just parrot authorities.)

    She just isn't a scientist, much like it's no insult to say that Einstein wasn't a Latin scholar or Bill Gates isn't a philosopher. Their skills and expertise just lie in different areas.
    Last edited by darthbobcat; 2011-08-07 at 02:38 PM.
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  29. - Top - End - #689
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    Default Re: My Little Pony XIX: I Emptied Your Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Vent Reynolt View Post
    [....]

    Does this work, because I'm not sure that I am writing Twilight very well.
    I think she's trying too hard now, but maybe that IS in line with Twilight's character

    I think the statement as it was made by Twilight in the episode is clearly wrong. Probably a mistake on the writers' part, but it makes the problems with the rest of the episode worse.

    Anyway, all I'm saying is, Twilight would have had a much better argument if she simply said she didn't believe in Pinkie's sense because Pinkie is not a unicorn and thus can't have magic. And the same for curses, Zecora couldn't do anything curse-like because Zecora is not a unicorn. Any claims of curses done by non-unicorns must be nothing but pony tales. Makes sense.

    She might end up being proven wrong and that would be great (non-unicorn magic, what a revolutionary discovery that would be, she'd become instantly famous!), but it would be perfectly reasonable given her knowledge (and ours) at the time.
    Last edited by Deadly; 2011-08-07 at 02:38 PM.

  30. - Top - End - #690
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    Default Re: My Little Pony XIX: I Emptied Your Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadly View Post
    I think she's trying too hard now, but maybe that IS in line with Twilight's character

    I think the statement as it was made by Twilight in the episode is clearly wrong. Probably a mistake on the writers' part, but it makes the problems with the rest of the episode worse.

    Anyway, all I'm saying is, Twilight would have had a much better argument if she simply said she didn't believe in Pinkie's sense because Pinkie is not a unicorn and thus can't have magic. And the same for curses, Zecora couldn't do anything curse-like because Zecora is not a unicorn. Any claims of curses done by non-unicorns must be nothing but pony tales. Makes sense.

    She might end up being proven wrong and that would be great (non-unicorn magic, what a revolutionary discovery that would be, she'd become instantly famous!), but it would be perfectly reasonable given her knowledge (and ours) at the time.
    Now I'm curious if there are Zebra unicorns and Zebra pegasi.
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