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2009-05-02, 01:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Taipei, Taiwan
Re: Why are all black women in the comic sluts?
I don't want to get too involved in this dispute-- could be dangerous-- but I think that Elan may be the biggest non-succubus slut in the comic. I mean, it's practically in his charter to seduce enemy women, remember?
Anyway, a small amount of sexual freedom isn't necessarily a bad thing. Unless it's on Sabine-esque levels, but Sabine isn't exactly glorified anyway.
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2009-05-02, 03:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2007
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Re: Why are all black women in the comic sluts?
Generally, if someone's parents are of different racial background, they are called "mixed" or "mixed race."
And perhaps the answer to the OP's question is "because all the black women in OotS are seriously hot, and they can be."Done here. Thanks, friends.
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2009-05-02, 05:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2006
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- probably somewhere in the universe...
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Re: Why are all black women in the comic sluts?
Last edited by Querzis; 2009-05-02 at 05:53 PM.
In memory of lord Shojo
Avatar by Miss Nobody
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2009-05-02, 08:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why are all black women in the comic sluts?
This is the worst thread ever.
I don't know what's worse, the people calling the black women who enjoy sex sluts, or the people using the white women who enjoy sex as a counter-argument to say that ALL women in OOTS are sluts.
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2009-05-02, 08:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2009
Re: Why are all black women in the comic sluts?
Biologically this is actually quite good... double standards sure, but
A. women have a MUCH better chance of getting an STD
B. women get pregnant, not men
simple fact is, women have more to lose
Lol, this was a topic in one of my Anthro classes.
It really really really is... I hate people who get easily offendedLast edited by Wishpig; 2009-05-02 at 08:14 PM.
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2009-05-02, 08:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- France
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Re: Why are all black women in the comic sluts?
Do they offend you? :P
I think it might be more accurate to say that you have a higher chance getting a STD if you're a "receiver". You don't have to be a woman for that. Of course, your point still stands: straight, sexually active women are "receivers" most of the time if not all the time.
And the pregnancy thing is very true, too.
But rather than saying "it's self-defense that causes the double standard", I think it has more to do with insecurity... I might get flamed for that, but I've noticed women are quicker to judge a woman who, say, doesn't wear make-up, doesn't shave, is promiscuous or isn't thin, and it seems to me that most of the time, it's because the women judging feel that they personally couldn't get away with it. (That they personally /have/ to do that, not because they want to, but because they wouldn't be attractive otherwise. Which I strongly disagree with, incidentally, I feel that if you want to do these things, that's perfectly fine, but you should do them for yourself or it won't make you happy).
If I'm making sense.
In opposition, I've never seen a man care that I don't shave and don't wear make up, and that includes men I had sex with, male friends and male strangers.
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2009-05-02, 08:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2009
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- Aus.
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Re: Why are all black women in the comic sluts?
Must not point out that Lissou is french. MUST. RESIST...
I am of death. Subtle and glaring. Bane and champion.
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2009-05-02, 08:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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Re: Why are all black women in the comic sluts?
See, and if this were their argument, Sabine and Sarah Greenhilt would both be vindicated in their behavior anyway. Sabine is a demon, Sarah is dead; neither one of them can get pregnant OR contract any diseases. So there is no biological imperative for them to be chaste whatsoever. Which is pretty much the entire POINT of Sarah's behavior--freed from the constraints of the mortal world, she's allowed to have as much fun as she wants.
Of course, we would be fooling ourselves in thinking that the woman's health is the primary reason most people choose to castigate a promiscuous woman.
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2009-05-02, 08:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2005
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Re: Why are all black women in the comic sluts?
If a man has lots of sex, no problem. In fact, "Score!"
If a woman has lots of sex, SLUT!!!
But im biased against sex, having seen people do really stupid things they would later regret because of sex.
Hmm...why are they all sluts.... Good question, but know one but the Giant really knows, now do they? Since its a small number we are talking about it may well be a co-incidink.
neither one of them can get pregnantLast edited by Stormthorn; 2009-05-02 at 08:47 PM.
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2009-05-02, 08:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- France
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Re: Why are all black women in the comic sluts?
Actually, that stereotype is what caused me to stop shaving after I moved to Canada :P
People kept telling me "Oh, we know you're French, you don't have to shave for our sake" and I started wondering why I was doing it in the first place. So I stopped.
Of course, once I was back in France, I was welcomed by "ewwww, that's dirty!"... I wash everyday, thank you very much.
But I noticed only women said stuff like that. Not all women, but I never had remarks from men. Either they don't even notice (it's not what they're looking at :P) or they don't care.
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2009-05-02, 08:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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Re: Why are all black women in the comic sluts?
We don't know that such is true on the OOTS world. Half-demons may only exist from male demons impregnating mortal women. Note that Sabine makes up a story about her menstrual cycle, which implies that she does not have one, so who knows?
At any rate, the only mortal Sabine has ever slept with during the strip is Nale, and she may be under orders to create a half-demon with him. Her promiscuity with other demons is therefore entirely safe for her, because demons don't reproduce through sex.Last edited by SPoD; 2009-05-02 at 08:54 PM.
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2009-05-02, 09:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
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- Raleigh, NC
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Re: Why are all black women in the comic sluts?
1: Dunno, I always thought of Zz'dtri as a chick...
That's... accepting the point, right? It's kind of hard to be drow and not be black.
2: Follows the rule of "the more perverse, the funnier"
As elves, they count as whichever gender is more convenient for the plot. Thus, there's both 50-50. Combined, they make a full man, and a full woman.
They're 26 years old, yet they didn't try to sleep with anyone. Despite being darker than most of the "black" women offered.
This brings up another counter-example. The Ancient Black Dragon doesn't show any signs of sluttiness either. Although, she's only shown meeting people who she wishes every ill on in the world. Still, one (ancient) African-Stickversian woman, meeting three African-Stickversian half-women, and no sexual connotations come up whatsoever. So, clearly, darker ladies can have personalities which both exclude and eclipse sexuality.
3:
This being over 400 comics go, I can accept your forgetting the incident.
It provides an undeniable counter-example. The idea of her sleeping with a stranger, simply because he was willing, makes her physically ill.
4:...If your response is serious... google the movie whited out from the quoted post, immediately above the quoted section. I know you saw the words. They're the only bit you didn't post. That is a paraphrase of my favorite quote, which you can use surprisingly often in real-life conversations.
They're an organized collection of zeroes and ones. They exist entirely for our entertainment, and are bit players at that. They don't have personalities, and don't interact with us long enough to display a consistent one. Saying they're sluts is roughly like saying "slices of bread are a sluts." Just because you happened to see them up against eachother all the time doesn't mean they exist to get off by it. The fact that the OP sees it and interprets it that way, and ignores/dismisses all counter examples only shows his own bias.
You must also consider that this was a response to "...all black women...", rather than the new title "... all black women in the comic...", wherein the above goes from "true but silly" to "well, that's a decent point, but kinda meta-argument." Bull. It was ALL for the Big Lebowski quote.Last edited by theMycon; 2009-05-02 at 10:01 PM. Reason: Making the gag really, really, REALLY obvious
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2009-05-02, 09:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2009
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- Aus.
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Re: Why are all black women in the comic sluts?
Whatever else could they be looking at?
Anyway, I don't really have an opinion on double standards. As a male I tend to just accept what women think and let them roll with it. Farbeit from me to call women insecure for trying to act perfect, but it's okay for you to say it. Call me whipped I guess, and I'm not even married.
They're obsidian, not black. And also Drow have social customs that have to do with sex and lust and depravity, I think that was what he was referring to. It's kind of hard for a Drow not to have sexual connotations.
Also stop using white text, damn you. I didn't even see it before I went to reply.I am of death. Subtle and glaring. Bane and champion.
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2009-05-02, 10:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2003
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- Philadelphia, PA
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Re: Why are all black women in the comic sluts?
There's nothing like getting accused of racism to liven up one's day.
There are two separate arguments on this thread: One, whether there is some correlation between skin color and promiscuity, and two, whether there is too much promiscuity among the women portrayed in the comic.
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The first is easy to answer: The only considerations that I give to skin color is that there be a normal distribution among a group, except in the case of a blood relation to an existing character.
In the case of Sabine, she is the tone that she is for two reasons: One, because it is a "mixed race" tone that could pass for any ethnic group in a pinch, as befits a shapeshifter, and two, because I wanted there to be at least one person of color on the Linear Guild. Yikyik, Thog, and Zz'dtri all needed to be the colors that they were due to their species, and Nale needed to be the same color as Elan. So, I could have made either Sabine or Hilgya dark skinned--either way, a black woman would have been having sex. I chose Sabine because Durkon is dark-skinned, and I wanted there to be some difference between Hilgya and Durkon to show that dwarves have races, too.
In the case of Jenny, I established the character as a throwaway joke in On the Origins of PCs, at which time I chose her to be black purely at random. (You'll note that Billy the Thieves' Guild Intern is also black.) While I expected the Thieves' Guild to come back as a whole, I didn't get the idea to have her sleep with Belkar until I was plotting this arc. At that point, I suppose I could have invented another female thief character out of some misguided "Character Affirmative Action" or something, but really, it didn't even cross my mind to do so. I had a female character with a high enough Charisma to be a bard/sorcerer (and thus attractive enough for Belkar to kiss her rather than kill her), why create another throwaway when I can use the one I have? Besides, going out of my way to NOT have a character behave inappropriately due to their race is just as racist as if I had intentionally made her black because she was going to put out.
And in the case of Sarah and Julia, they have dark skin because Roy has dark skin. Which is obvious, so it asks the question as to why they act the way they do. Well, Sarah is promiscuous in the afterlife because seeing your mom be promiscuous is uncomfortable and awkward, and I wanted to make that joke. Note that Sarah was pretty monogamous in life, however; she met her husband at age 19. Julia is not necessarily promiscuous, merely shallow and vain. She wants attention, and she uses her looks to get it. This is intended to contrast with Roy, and shadow Eugene's egotism.
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So that brings us to the issue of whether or not the women of OOTS are all unnecessarily promiscuous, to which I would say a resounding "No, not in my book." (I mean, it obviously, IS my book, but you know what I'm saying.)
The characters in the comic, for the most part, are relatively young people (in their 20's, for most of them) who live a life of constant danger and travel. They do not have the luxury of going on 10 dates before hooking up, because they spend hardly any time in cities or towns at all and their prospective mate might get eaten by a wereplatypus before that special 10th date. Their profession is such that they may only get one chance at that special connection before fate rips it away from them.
Haley knew Elan as well as anyone by the time he grabbed her and kissed her. Given that she knew her own feelings well, why should she wait at that point? What if something crazy and unpredictable happened the next day like, say, Xykon invading the city and separating them for six months? Celia may have been a civilian, but she knew she had to return to the plane of Elemental Air the next day to resume her studies and that Roy may be killed before she saw him again. As it turned out, that is exactly what happened. So how can anyone fault either one of them for rushing in?
We all live in a fairly sedentary world, where long violence-free lives are the default and we can date someone for months or even years before having sex with them. The characters of OOTS do not have that luxury. Faulting these women (or any of the men, really) for knowing what they want and going after it strikes me as projecting morals that were built for this world onto theirs.
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As far as the prevalence of sex in OOTS at all, well, that's intentional. It's a great source of jokes, and it's something that has hardly ever been addressed in other works based on D&D. A frank look at the likely ramifications that a D&D-style world would have on sexual behavior is one of the secondary themes of OOTS, if a stick figure satire comic can be said to have themes at all. This isn't the medieval world, after all, it's a world with 100% gender equality, a known afterlife, clerics that can cure any disease, and rampaging monsters around every corner.
If you're looking for a story where the main characters never talk or think about sex, much less have it, you should go and read...um...every other work of D&D fantasy fiction ever produced.Rich Burlew
Now Available: 2023 OOTS Holiday Ornament plus a big pile of new t-shirt designs (that you can also get on mugs and stuff)!
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2009-05-02, 10:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why are all black women in the comic sluts?
Rich Burlew
Now Available: 2023 OOTS Holiday Ornament plus a big pile of new t-shirt designs (that you can also get on mugs and stuff)!
~~You can also support The Order of the Stick and the GITP forum at Patreon.~~
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2009-05-02, 10:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
Re: Why are all black women in the comic sluts?
The term slut has nothing to do with enjoying sex. Quite frankly, I *want* my wife to enjoy having sex with me as much or more than I enjoy having it with her. Anybody who thinks that such a fact would make my wife 'slutty' is on drugs. A slut is defined by her lack of standards in men and/or her lack of commitment to her partners.
(And being in the Afterlife, the late Mrs. Greenhilt can't be held to 'mortal' standards, regardless of what anyone thinks.)
Personally, I believe that both men and women should save themselves for marriage, and I see nothing antiquated about it. I did it, and I'm happy I did.Avatar by Assassin89
I started my first campaign around a campfire, having pancakes. They were blueberry.
My homebrew(updated 6/17):
SpoilerIn progress:
Prolonged Spell(Fix for Persistent spell)
Weapon Training(replaces Weapon Focus chain)
Shelved:
Ascendant Feats.[New content!]
Finished:
Belts of potionade
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2009-05-02, 10:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Originally Posted by Dervag
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2009-05-02, 10:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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- Balmy, buggy Missouri >_<
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2009-05-02, 11:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2008
Re: Why are all black women in the comic sluts?
In the U.S., it seems like people are generally dropped into basic racial bins. It only takes maybe a quarter or an eighth of subsaharan blood to be considered "black". "Hispanic", last I checked, was legally patrilineal, following the surname. Half European, half asian people use the term "Eurasian" for themselves, but others generally put them in one bin or the other based on their hair style and color, etc. All very silly for a place that's not supposed to care about race, but that's the U.S. for you.
My parents are of different racial backgrounds, and to my knowledge I've never been called "mixed race". Frankly, I'd be insulted if I were, because (a) race shouldn't matter, and (b) if race did matter, it would matter which races were being mixed.
That's because men are judged on different bases than women. Outside of the office, men tend to be condemned for dressing nicely or neatly, for example. Physical bulk is valued in men, so it's the skinny ones that are judged negatively, as are men who refrain from casual sex when it's offered.
Trust me, there's plenty of judging going on for men, too.
Thanks for that observation, and the explanation. I'll admit the coincidences the original poster mentions had bothered me a little, but now that you point it out, race consciously fixing that would be worse. Pity there aren't more racially unbiased stories so this kind of coincidence would be unremarkable.
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2009-05-02, 11:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
Hand of God
I love it when the Voice of Authority can come and set your doubts to rest on a subject, don't you?
God bless the internet and webcomics!
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2009-05-03, 02:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why are all black women in the comic sluts?
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2009-05-03, 03:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
Re: Why are all black women in the comic sluts?
That is so true.
The real reason why promiscuity tends to be more accepted in men than in women is that we live in a traditionally male dominated society. This is all about control and power.
In a truly emancipated world, there would be no bias either waythnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar
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2009-05-03, 03:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why are all black women in the comic sluts?
I think I just failed a Spot check.
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2009-05-03, 03:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why are all black women in the comic sluts?
Wow. That's an incredibly detailled response from the Giant for something I didn't think was serious in the first place. Hopefully that will clear it though.
That whole thing reminds me of how Dora the explorer's skin tone was chosen, because on all continents it's possible to find someone with that skin tone, making her more "universal".
Also, I always thought of "Eurasian" as someone who lives in Eurasia... That is, Europe+Asia (it's sometimes considered a continent, just like North+South America is sometimes referred to as a single continent).
Speaking of which, just saying "Asian" makes little sense. Asian from Afghanistan, India, China? They're all different.
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2009-05-03, 04:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
Re: Why are all black women in the comic sluts?
Awesome work Giant: an intelligent and detailed response to a question which can often cause people to respond quite angrily (especially when it was phrased quite so indelicately by the op!)
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2009-05-03, 05:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
Re: Why are all black women in the comic sluts?
In a strip where all the main characters (except the token asexual) have been engaging in casual sex, why is everyone surprised that NPCs are getting in on the action as well?
Why, in a universe where Lawful Good clerics can have sex before marriage, paladins endorse gay relationships without so much as a raised eyebrow, and sylphs and humans will get jiggy at the drop of a plot twist, are people determined to criticise female characters for exactly the same actions as the males? This is a universe with progressive sexual values, for those of you too busy hurrrring at der funnie belkarr. You can try and judge characters for their sexual conduct, but you might as well judge Roy for leading a party instead of picking cotton or Haley for being a career thief instead of making sandwiches.
Speaking as a fair, sexiful white male with a background in the performing arts I am SUPAH OFFANDID that Elan is a dirty little skirt-chasing ho-bag. I personally use my charms for good, not personal gain, and the implication that all of my ilk seduce antagonists for class-oriented reasons is deeply hurtful.
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2009-05-03, 05:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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2009-05-03, 07:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2006
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- Mangholi Dask
Re: Why are all black women in the comic sluts?
Going back to something on the first page, which you really should have been called out for before now:
(emphasis added)
Yup, if you have more than one sexual relationship in your entire life you're a slut is what this poster seems to be saying. Otherwise I cannot see how Celia's previous relationship is in any way relevant.Last edited by Sir_Norbert; 2009-05-03 at 07:23 AM.
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2009-05-03, 07:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dublin, Ireland
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Re: Why are all black women in the comic sluts?
Well, although it has provocative content, at least this thread has had the good result of us getting to read the Giant's thoughts on some of the differences between the real world and the Stickverse and the implications that these would have for the romantic lives of the characters in this comic. It was a pretty awesome post!
"Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point."
~~~ C. S. LewisFirst Mate on board Hinjo's Junk
Theological Advisor of the Hinjo Fan Club
Shark Smiter of the O-Chul Fan Club
GitP Folding Team
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2009-05-03, 07:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why are all black women in the comic sluts?
Great response, Rich. Good to see you on the boards. I'm a latecomer here, but I've gone through the archives, back when you had more time to interact with the fans. You sure do have a lot to do, but feel free to drop in more often. I'm never going to make it to a convention or a book-signing, so when you speak at length on the boards, that's like an autograph.
Not a man-crush - just cool to observe a great artist outside of his work. Now that I've made you uncomfortable, I'll let it go at that.