Werewolf Central VIII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

[Ur-Quan]

Not literal waste as in data, but waste as in "Too much screen space belonging to Dethy threads, overshadowing other threads" which could be detrimental to people browsing threads around. Also, I'm pretty (90%) sure an OP, which creates a thread, takes more space than a normal post, it might be in kilobytes, even bytes of data difference, but it's there.

[Matthias2207]

And the admins need to approve lots of new threads, because the games are so short.

[flabort]

Interesting. I had assumed that the continuous games would all be in one thread. So the "OP" for the next game would be mid-thread.
(And when one judge passes on the mantle to the winner, he puts a link in his "OP" to the next).

[bladescape]

Well, this is me popping in to say that I'll be away for ~76 hours. So yeah, don't expect me to reply to anything during that time.

(Don't think I'm up for Autolynch in anything, but if I am, please don't autolynch me?)

[usourselves&we]

Our primary computer went kaput, we don't think it will effect our posting that much, but if we happen to disappear you should be able to guess why.

[Penguinator]

Inanimate WW ended in an overwhelming wolf/neutral victory. (Actually, everybody won, but, hey)

[Lady Serpentine]

That does tend to happen when there's no town.

[V Junior]

Hey guys. I'm writing up a set of WW rules based on the game Persona 4, and I need help with a question. The idea is that there are EIGHT power roles on Team Good with different functions (although there will only be one Seer). How many Team Bad power roles would I need in order to make it a fair game?

[Matthias2207]

Depends on the powers and the amount of players, I guess.

[V Junior]

Depends on the powers and the amount of players, I guess.

Well, the way I think it will work is this:

- One seer;
- One fool;
- One sniper;
- One baner;
- One bodyguard (saves another at the cost of their own life);
- A healer (can ressurect one person every three days, so long as they died the previous night);
- A point-booster (point counts for 3);
- A day-baner.

There's another thing to consider in this. Basically, it takes two nights for someone to die. First night, the wolf team choose someone to kidnap. The next night, they die. The eight power roles get to send the name of someone whom they think may have been kidnapped. If 4/8 get it right, then they save the person. The catch is that they may not be able to find the person in time, AND they don't know who the others are.

The wolf team will get at least one insta-kill, though. Sort of like a wolf sniper. Plus a beast.

[Vhaidara]

A few points:
1. I'm not sold on the bodyguard, that sounds like one of the worst roles you could get. Your ability is suicide to save someone else, which no one really wants to do, especially in light of my next point.
2. Would the power roles be blind? Because 8 masons-with-other-powers would be incredibly broken.
3. I generally don't like rezzers such as the healer. The reason is this: It gives someone a known role. So the healer saves his rez for when the seer is killed, then rezzes the seer, who can publicly announce all roles they have learned, and everyone knows they're telling the truth.

As far as how to fix things
For the bodyguard, add on a beast effect, so they save someone and kill one of the attackers. That makes it a bit more appealing, since at least you take someone down with you. But the beast effect only triggers if they are killed protecting someone. So if they are lynched or targeted, it doesn't work.

For the healer, maybe change to being able to contact the dead person and give them a final point. So someone the healer uses their power on would be allowed to post a name in red text, and that's it.

The other problem you'll run into is getting enough players. If there are 8 good power roles, then min 3 evil power roles (beast, devil, sniper), you're up to 11 people without any wolves or players.

As far as the kidnapping mechanic, presumably after being kidnapped they don't get a point on the next day (between kidnap and death). Wouldn't that make it much easier for the power roles to figure out who was kidnapped?

[Matthias2207]

The catch is that they may not be able to find the person in time, AND they don't know who the others are.

That's your second question answered.

First thing I thought after reading the bodyguard description: "Why would anyone ever want to do that?"
It only makes sense if they know the healer, so they can be brought back, but it's basically a baner who dies after he uses his action.

And yes, the kidnapping. Could be funny, but the way I see it now would be really hard for the wolves to kill someone.

[V Junior]

Bookboy:
- Powers roles are blind.
- Yeaaaah, I may need to rework the bodyguard and the healer.
- Kidnapping does seem like a bad idea now.

How about this:
- Bodyguard gets a beast attack too.
- I like the idea about the healer giving someone one last point.
- No kidnapping.

I have 4 evil power roles, so this would be a big game if I ever ran it. How many villagers/wolves would be good?

[Internet Flea]

The main problem is less with what the powers will do, and more about having eight unique villager roles in the game. All you would need to do is have the day-baner protect himself, claim in thread, have the baner protect him, and now you have a town network with ten votes. None of them will be lynched because they can just claim, so to make up for that you would need a lot of players, probably more than thirty. Otherwise the wolves can't hide.

[Castaras]

You could adapt an idea from the Alien Invasion game.

We didn't have the aliens doing night kills, originally. Someone would be beamed up, and you wouldn't get told in the day phase who was taken. There would be a 50% chance that the person would return, as a minion of the Aliens (with a small chance of instead of being an alien minion, the person would be a seer).

We had the autolynch cycle be three days, and the person would end up being brought back a day or two later.

[flabort]

How about, instead of "no kidnapping", it still makes it so they can't point, and they die, but there are numerous other powers that prevent pointing. Say, as an inverse to the Rescue Squad (Village power roles), each wolf with a power gets to help pick who they kidnap, but also may point at a player individually, and they don't get to vote, though aren't kidnapped.
And rather than preventing pointing, they still point but it has no power.

And if the wolves are blind, but you don't use "they still point but it has no power", this could end up with the village trying to rescue a wolf. And wolves occasionally kidnapping wolves.

[Penguinator]

Bodyguard/Beast could work.

Medieval had the Taste-Tester, which could block all negative effects which hit the target (included voiding, poison, vote-blocking, etc) but died if they were the target of the NK. Which, for this particular game, seems like it would be overpowered.

I suppose it would be easier to help if you told us the wolf power-roles as well.

[Penguinator]

Oh, and I wasn't sure where else to mention it, but I thought it would make some of you laugh.

I just got back from a council meeting for a band I'm in, and we were three votes short of making "Friendship is Magic" our theme for the year.

Funny part was that only a few of us actually knew what it was from. Then the president, who didn't get it, goes, "It makes me think of unicorns." It was great.

[Vhaidara]

I personally feel that self-baning should be a default disallowed, just because it tends to be very powerful, especially for a day-baner.

Also, what is the new evil roles? I count three with beast, devil, and sniper.

Also, for player numbers, I have little experience with such matters, but the number of power roles (12 by my count) suggests around 20 minimum, preferably 25+ (my opinion is that there should be more non-power players than power players).

Also, quick question, are wolves blind in this one?

[Penguinator]

Oh, you definitely want more than 20. More like 30 as a minimum.

Self-baning is a dual-edged sword. I started running my baners as "you can bane yourself, but not twice in a row." Then again, I run non-standard games.

[Saposhiente]

Bodyguard is fine. They're otherwise a townie, and any smart player would be willing to give their life for a powerrole. Beast/Bodyguard is OP; if I got that role I would immediately protect the first person to die at night, for a guaranteed wolf kill.
But what you really need is wolf voiders. Voiders all the way.
Another potential thing that can prevent a lot of imbalance is to disallow PMs. No seer network for town, no gathering of the powerroles around the daybaner.
Healer is really quite powerful. Heck, if you allow PMs, you don't even need to gather around the daybaner; anyone the Healer resurrects is confirmed innocent for a day. He effectively reduces the wolf effectiveness by 1/3rd while he's alive. Plus, he can continuously revive powerroles. Seer died without giving his info? Just rez him right back up! Probably should make it so that you can't rez powerroles, and maybe also you can't rez nightkills, only lynchees.
As for the sheer number of powerroles, you could potentially make it witchhuntesque: Give *everyone* in town a role (though many with very weak powers) and then make a wolf or neutral role who must guess the role of the person they target for their power to work. Or, make more roles than there are players, then give out only some of the roles, and tell the wolves which ones weren't included. Or something of the sort to discourage mass roleclaiming. Thing though is that this will drastically change the tone and complexity of the game, making it suitable for a very different and much smaller audience.
You could probably also just do the antimassclaim stuff without giving everyone a role.

[Internet Flea]

I personally feel that self-baning should be a default disallowed, just because it tends to be very powerful, especially for a day-baner.

Once they're revealed they can pretty much only protect themselves and the use of the Baner role is gone (as in the last Classic). And Day-baners cost town a lynch and can still get nightkilled so it's not too broken.

But I also like the Careless option because it really is nice to be able to kill the Baner once you find them.

(Plus it makes people bane other people and thus makes the game more interesting.)

[Vhaidara]

Bodyguard is fine. They're otherwise a townie, and any smart player would be willing to give their life for a powerrole. Beast/Bodyguard is OP; if I got that role I would immediately protect the first person to die at night, for a guaranteed wolf kill.

Protect the first person to die at night? That would mean protecting someone who is already dead. I don't think you can do that.

[Internet Flea]

Protect the first person to die at night? That would mean protecting someone who is already dead. I don't think you can do that.

Assuming it's like a Martyr role you'd get the option to save the dying players right before the phase ends.

Although I don't think that was what V Junior was meaning.

[Saposhiente]

Protect the first person to die at night? That would mean protecting someone who is already dead. I don't think you can do that.

Still, I'd take the first opportunity I could get. Maybe even get someone to act suspicious, claim bodyguard and ask to not be baned, that they're just wanting to have the lynch not be wasted on them. Then, I save them.

[Vhaidara]

So what you're saying is you would get someone else to claim bodyguard, and then bodyguard them to get a guaranteed wolf kill?

[Saposhiente]

Yep. Wolf life > my life. Added bonus: If wolves do kill them and I save them, they're confirmed innocent for a day.

[Internet Flea]

Yep. Wolf life > my life. Added bonus: If wolves do kill them and I save them, they're confirmed innocent for a day.

Which is exactly why a wolf like me would kill someone else.

[Saposhiente]

But wolves don't know that they're a fake Bodyguard, and I doubt that they'd think of it (had I not mentioned it, anyway). Villager lies are extremely rare (and always Fun!)

[Internet Flea]

But wolves don't know that they're a fake Bodyguard, and I doubt that they'd think of it (had I not mentioned it, anyway). Villager lies are extremely rare (and always Fun!)

Even if they were real they'd still likely be baned.

(Plus there's the problem of town Bodyguard finding a town Villager to claim.)