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    Default Isn't that weird...

    Soon found about the rifts in his diplomatic mission to Elven Lands. But, there is a rift in his homeland...

    What should we expect from this? A crazy coincidence, or is there something wrong with this story?
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    Default Re: Isn't that weird...

    Quote Originally Posted by martianmister View Post
    Soon found about the rifts in his diplomatic mission to Elven Lands. But, there is a rift in his homeland...

    What should we expect from this? A crazy coincidence, or is there something wrong with this story?
    Maybe the rift in his land, being the smallest, was more stable and thus less noticeable.

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    Default Re: Isn't that weird...

    A tiny rift (I know what the Giant said recently, but that doesn't change the description of the size.), Hinjo said the rift was small enough to be sealed by a sapphire, probably can't be seen up in the sky that far.
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    Default Re: Isn't that weird...

    He built Azure city around the rift, there's no reason to think that was his homeland before he settled the city there.
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    Default Re: Isn't that weird...

    Quote Originally Posted by martianmister View Post
    What should we expect from this?
    Nothing.

    (And Azure City existed for a long time before Soon. Only the castle was built by him.)
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    Default Re: Isn't that weird...

    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCat View Post
    A tiny rift (I know what the Giant said recently, but that doesn't change the description of the size.), Hinjo said the rift was small enough to be sealed by a sapphire, probably can't be seen up in the sky that far.
    This. Unless you were actively looking for the rifts, there's no reason why you'd notice one that's maybe an inch across and a hundred feet up in the air.

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    Default Re: Isn't that weird...

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    This. Unless you were actively looking for the rifts, there's no reason why you'd notice one that's maybe an inch across and a hundred feet up in the air.
    Exactly. Hell, I work with a bunch of people that can't spot a yellow a4 piece of paper 3 feet from their face.

    Had this convo in a few contexts - often with splinter cell or deus ex. People do NOT look up. Not even a few feet. People look where they are going.

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    Default Re: Isn't that weird...

    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCat View Post
    A tiny rift (I know what the Giant said recently, but that doesn't change the description of the size.), Hinjo said the rift was small enough to be sealed by a sapphire, probably can't be seen up in the sky that far.
    I actually didn't know what the Giant had said about the Gate recently. So I had a looksee, and I'm glad I did.

    Here is a link to the post for people who are curious to know more about just what was going on with Soon's Gate and the Sapphire.

    ETA: In that post, he also mentioned that the Gate itself is "about the size of a raisin". And since the Gate itself is larger than the Rift, that must mean that the Rift itself was smaller than a raisin.

    Now I ask you, how many people would actually notice a extremely small tear in the sky of that size? Even if they were directly looking right at it?

    Not many, I'd gather. And even then I'd suspect that most people would dismiss it as a trick of the light or something Not Exactly Earth Shattering.
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    Default Re: Isn't that weird...

    Guys, the point is, man who found about the rifts is, by coincidence, living in a city with a rift. And there is only five of them in the whole world.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Nothing.

    (And Azure City existed for a long time before Soon. Only the castle was built by him.)
    So, coincidence then?
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    Default Re: Isn't that weird...

    Sometimes, things really can be just a coincidence.

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    Default Re: Isn't that weird...

    Quote Originally Posted by martianmister View Post
    Guys, the point is, man who found about the rifts is, by coincidence, living in a city with a rift. And there is only five of them in the whole world.

    So, coincidence then?
    Soon was destined to find the rifts. Born close to one he was was meant to wander near the others. No coincidence, it was part of a great plan, we're talking about a major quest here.
    Last edited by teratorn; 2011-09-02 at 09:21 AM.
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    Default Re: Isn't that weird...

    Quote Originally Posted by teratorn View Post
    Soon was destined to find the rifts. Born close to one he was was meant to wander near the others. No coincidence, it was part of a great plan, we're talking about a major quest here.
    In my eyes, all coincidences are part of a really big plan...

    Quote Originally Posted by Palthera View Post
    Sometimes, things really can be just a coincidence.
    Yeah, that's why I add this possibility in my original post.
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    Default Re: Isn't that weird...

    Quote Originally Posted by martianmister View Post
    In my eyes, all coincidences are part of a really big plan...
    If they're a coincidence to the one doing the planning, then they're a coincidence. I always hate that phrase anyway. It only works if you specifically limit yourself to just your own point of view, which is useless in fiction.
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    Default Re: Isn't that weird...

    Quote Originally Posted by OrzhvoPatriarch View Post
    Maybe the rift in his land, being the smallest, was more stable and thus less noticeable.
    It was also located high in the sky.

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    Default Re: Isn't that weird...

    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCat View Post
    If they're a coincidence to the one doing the planning, then they're a coincidence. I always hate that phrase anyway. It only works if you specifically limit yourself to just your own point of view, which is useless in fiction.
    In the fiction, all coincidences are part of a writer's really big plan...
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    Default Re: Isn't that weird...

    Quote Originally Posted by martianmister View Post
    In the fiction, all coincidences are part of a writer's really big plan...
    Not if it's a coincidence to the author as well. And what's the for?
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    Default Re: Isn't that weird...

    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCat View Post
    Not if it's a coincidence to the author as well.
    Nothing is a coincidence to the creator. S/He is, literally, god of his/her created work.
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    Default Re: Isn't that weird...

    Quote Originally Posted by martianmister View Post
    Nothing is a coincidence to the creator. S/He is, literally, god of his/her created work.
    Yes, there is. Say he creates a character with ponytail on the Western Continent. It's pure coincidence, she is not related to Haley. Just because he controls everything doesn't mean he doesn't sometimes create coincidences, which is what I'm talking about.
    Last edited by MoonCat; 2011-09-02 at 10:33 AM.
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    Default Re: Isn't that weird...

    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCat View Post
    Yes, there is. Say he creates a character with ponytail on the Western Continent. It's pure coincidence, she is not related to Haley. Just because he controls everything doesn't mean he doesn't sometimes create coincidences, which is what I'm talking about.
    Then why did you argue with my original post? Terratorn is the one who talking about "no coincidences" in Rich's story.
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    Default Re: Isn't that weird...

    Quote Originally Posted by martianmister View Post
    Then why did you argue with my original post? Terratorn is the one who talking about "no coincidences" in Rich's story.
    But all coincidences aren't part of a plan. They're a coincidence.
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    Default Re: Isn't that weird...

    Quote Originally Posted by MoonCat View Post
    But all coincidences aren't part of a plan. They're a coincidence.
    It's varies from person to person. There is no absolute truth about these philosophical arguements.
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    Lightbulb Re: Isn't that weird...

    My bet is that Rich just thought, "it would make for a lot of interesting plot points to have one of the gates be embedded in the throne of a castle in a city."

    Storytelling is weird. Entertaining the reader trumps most other considerations be they bending the rules of the Game or reality.

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    Default Re: Isn't that weird...

    Quote Originally Posted by Phishfood View Post
    Exactly. Hell, I work with a bunch of people that can't spot a yellow a4 piece of paper 3 feet from their face.

    Had this convo in a few contexts - often with splinter cell or deus ex. People do NOT look up. Not even a few feet. People look where they are going.
    They also don't look down. Which is why ground based booby traps, and things that fall from above are the most common ways to suprise people in bad ways. I was lucky, my father was a paranoid ex Marine. I learned by the age of 6 to ALWAYS look up and down while walking. Or else. People still comment on it, actually, because I notice odd things in the ceiling and on the floor.
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    Default Re: Isn't that weird...

    Quote Originally Posted by martianmister View Post
    So, coincidence then?
    I suppose it's not as much coincidence, as plot necessity.

    The only way in which Azure City could become a battleground in the OOTS-Team Evil struggle, was either having a Rift over it, or having been built around one. Since it's stablished that Azure City was an ancient bastion of Good, the only option was to have a rift already hovering over it.

    Of course, Soon could have come from any other city in the world, and only settle in Azure City after assuming the defense of it's Rift. However, a) Soon wouldn't have managed to link the Shappire Guard with the Political Power of the City that fast being a foreigner, neither achieve enough political pull to push Azure City into a genocidal crusade agains all goblinoids if he had lacked already some degree of relation with the politics of the City. And b) Soon being a foreigner in Azure City would mean that either Soon or Azure City would have had to scrap the jap-influenced style. Things wouldn't have blend so well that way.

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    Default Re: Isn't that weird...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubble View Post
    My bet is that Rich just thought, "it would make for a lot of interesting plot points to have one of the gates be embedded in the throne of a castle in a city."
    But there was already a Gate in a throne room.

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    Default Re: Isn't that weird...

    Quote Originally Posted by martianmister View Post
    It's varies from person to person. There is no absolute truth about these philosophical arguements.
    If it varies from person to person, why did you ask if it was a coincidence in the first place? You asked the question, and then people responded, and your response is "well there is no absolute truth about this anyways?"
    "And yet, will we ever come to an end of discussion and talk if we think we must always reply to replies? For replies come from those who either cannot understand what is said to them, or are so stubborn and contentious that they refuse to give in even if they do understand." - St. Augustine

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    Default Re: Isn't that weird...

    Quote Originally Posted by martianmister View Post
    Terratorn is the one who talking about "no coincidences" in Rich's story.
    I didn't say that. In this particular case it's central to the plot and could have been planned. Mooncat's point illustrates stuff that are simple random coincidences in the story and with no serious meaning. Then we have «coincidences» with a purpose. We have many examples of «coincidences» in the story that are not random, they are important to quicken the pace of the story, favor the economy of the plot, and increase dramatic tension. What was the chance that Roy would meet Ian in the jail? Or that Elan's father is the one imprisoning Haley's father?

    The classic example is in Oedipus Rex. The guy coming to inform about his «parents» death was the one who found him when he was abandoned by his real parents.
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    Default Re: Isn't that weird...

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePhantasm View Post
    If it varies from person to person, why did you ask if it was a coincidence in the first place? You asked the question, and then people responded, and your response is "well there is no absolute truth about this anyways?"
    Giant already answered my original question. We are talking about something very different.

    Quote Originally Posted by teratorn View Post
    The classic example is in Oedipus Rex. The guy coming to inform about his «parents» death was the one who found him when he was abandoned by his real parents.
    I guess, if we are talking about fiction, there is two different kind of coincidences: real coincidences (random), and in-story coincidences (part of the god/destiny/author's big plan).
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    Default Re: Isn't that weird...

    Quote Originally Posted by martianmister View Post
    I guess, if we are talking about fiction, there is two different kind of coincidences: real coincidences (random), and in-story coincidences (part of the god/destiny/author's big plan).
    <brain explodes>

    THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS WHOLE TIME!!!!!
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    Default Re: Isn't that weird...

    Quote Originally Posted by martianmister View Post
    Giant already answered my original question. We are talking about something very different.
    Do you mind explicating the difference? Your question in the OP and the dichotomy you created between coincidence / "something wrong with this story" didn't make sense to me.
    "And yet, will we ever come to an end of discussion and talk if we think we must always reply to replies? For replies come from those who either cannot understand what is said to them, or are so stubborn and contentious that they refuse to give in even if they do understand." - St. Augustine

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