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2008-10-31, 02:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
Hmmmm.... but if accepting the 17,000 dollar donation from Gen-Con would have caused someone who donated more than 17,000 dollars from donating, then wouldn't that be in the worst interests of the children? The charity would have less money overall, and they wouldn't have as much money to spend on children in need?
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2008-10-31, 02:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
Good letter, I sent one as well that said just about the exact same thing. I would post it but I don't know how to use the spoiler tags.
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2008-10-31, 02:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2005
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
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2008-10-31, 03:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2006
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- The Town
Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
i sent mine. by the way, hi to everyone who i havent seen in ages (masked llama, mostly)
they sent me the same generic response they sent you, evildmmk3. i dont think they are reading these anymore, simply sending out the same 'nice' reply. so, let us analyze that reply.
Christian Children’s Fund made the decision to decline the gift from Gen Con, LLC as the request presented to us gave the appearance that CCF (the organization) was an endorser or supporter of a gaming convention, which CCF was not. As many non-profit organizations, CCF is selective in its endorsements or support in order to maintain the integrity of its name and logo. We cannot lend our name to an event for which we have no involvement. This decision should in no way be interpreted as CCF holding an opinion on Mr. Gygax, gaming enthusiasts or the game Dungeons and Dragons.
sentence 2, translation: like other groups, we choose who we want based upon what we value. (loosley translating integrity to mean something that, in your eyes, makes you look like something other people would trust).
sentence 3, translation: we cannot say we were a part of something when we were not there.
sentence 4, translation: this does not mean we don't like you or your game.
while they had the decency to say at the end that the dont hate us, there is still some... discrepancy is the word i am looking for, i believe. all letters should now be asking "what about gencon would lower your integrity?" to which the answer will probably be "because we were not supporting gencon at all" which should be replied in turn with "are you or representatives involved with every group that gives you money?" maybe the answer to that will be yes. ::shrug:: or maybe this wont change a thing. but take my translation and have fun.
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2008-10-31, 03:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2005
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
I expected as much, but now on one can call us uninformed knee-jerk internet troglodytes that spew hatred at the smallest perceived slights and give the other side no chance to defend themselves. (We are informed knee-jerk internet troglodytes that spew hatred at the smallest perceived slights and give the other side a chance to defend themselves.)
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2008-10-31, 03:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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- Minneapolis
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
(thanks evil)
Spoiler
I was informed through an online gaming news website that a recent $1700+ donation was declined due to the fact that some of the money came from selling Dungeons and Dragons books at GenCon during a fund raiser in memory of the late Gary Gygax. I trust this site as reputable and they urged their readers to email you and convey their disapproval. I myself am an avid Dungeons and Dragons player and I am aware of the Stigma that it is devil worship. I have been playing the game for more than five years and I assure you, my fellow players and myself are all very normal people. Three of my fellow players attend church regularly and one of them is a Pastors son. I am more upset for the children that will go without this money than the actual refusal. I believe that it was a silly move to turn down the donation to the detriment of these kids. I wish to convey my disapproval and earnest hope that future attempts at donation will not meet with the same answer.
Thank you for your time in reading this email and I wish you great success in the future in bringing good fortune to the needy children of the world.
~Sincerely, (my name)
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2008-10-31, 03:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2003
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- Philadelphia, PA
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
Originally Posted by The reply came:
Charities have been accepting the donations of the GenCon charity auction since the second such show in 1969, before D&D was even invented. Never once has the money been refused by any charity, to my knowledge. Case in point, as mentioned, Fisher House didn't see the same legal issues with accepting the money or lending their name, nor did last year's recipient, Cristel House. The idea that all charities regularly reject money donated as a result of events in which they have no organizing hand is utter crap, cooked up by their customer service department after the fact to answer angry emails.
(Also, I'm sticky-ing this, that's how mad I am.)Rich Burlew
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2008-10-31, 03:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2006
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
Quite true and the fact that CCF isn't some sort of weird exception this general practice is evident by their working with Capital One on a percent donation credit card bearing their logo. I don't suppose they had any hand in deciding who would be approved for the card or what the APR would be, do you?
I think they might have gotten to help pick the design schemes available on the faces of the cards though. Maybe if Gen Con had offered to let them help decorate they would have taken the donation. Sure.Last edited by AKA_Bait; 2008-10-31 at 03:59 PM.
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2008-10-31, 04:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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- Minneapolis
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
Who's to say what they buy with that card too? A person with that card could very well be buying DnD books. The card leaves it a lot more open ended than the straight money donation from DnD books. Why deny donations from DnD stuff and accept donations from a source that you have no idea where it came from?
Last edited by powerdemon; 2008-10-31 at 04:32 PM.
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2008-10-31, 04:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
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- Raleigh NC
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
Add to that the small fact that credit cards are what traditional morality might call 'Usury'. As a rule, in the modern age when you give someone a credit card, you're encouraging them to put themselves under a load of debt at the highest interest rates legally available for purely consumer purchase.
Respectfully,
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2008-10-31, 04:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
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2008-10-31, 05:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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- Minneapolis
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2008-10-31, 05:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
Not sure if this is mentioned elsewhere but i'm new and this really ticked me off.
Any lawyers want to verify for me what section 501(c)(3) of the IRS tax code is referring to on its website when it says:
"A section 501(c)(3) organization must not be organized or operated for the benefit of private interests, such as the creator or the creator's family, shareholders of the organization, other designated individuals, or persons controlled directly or indirectly by such private interests. No part of the net earnings of a section 501(c)(3) organization may inure to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual. A private shareholder or individual is a person having a personal and private interest in the activities of the organization"
Link for those curious: http://www.irs.gov/charities/charita...123297,00.html
Am I in understanding that the Christian Children's Fund violated their tax exemption by deeming the receipt of the fully and honestly given money as ethically questionable?
Also, I visited the Better Business Bureau and noted that under #18 of their Standards for Charity Accountability that it states:
"b.providing a clear, prominent and easily accessible privacy policy on any of its websites that tells visitors (i) what information, if any, is being collected about them by the charity and how this information will be used, (ii) how to contact the charity to review personal information collected and request corrections, (iii) how to inform the charity (e.g., a check off box) that the visitor does not wish his/her personal information to be shared outside the organization, and (iv) what security measures the charity has in place to protect personal information"
Did they actually issue a statement that it was refused on the grounds of what GENcon represented? If so, did they not collect information on the effort unethically and misuse information given? Can we get that revoked too?
EDIT: I just noted that canned response called it a "gaming convention" meaning they researched it without telling GENcon organizers. Even that little note might be enough.
They violated their mission statement by not accepting the money, there's nothing a hate more than a charity that thinks it's "too good" for your effort.
My apologies for the long post, i'm just pissed.Last edited by satsunada; 2008-10-31 at 05:18 PM.
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2008-10-31, 05:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
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- In fallen Azure City
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
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2008-10-31, 05:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2008
Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
Ohhh, yeah- I missed the 'no involvement' line. ...Well, in that case, they're also being dishonest.
But, uh... I still reckon the practical ramifications of being seen to associate with D&D may be more of a consideration for them. I mean, given they took flak for not pushing a religious agenda during their work, combined with the frightening number of people who take Jack Chick remotely seriously, I can sorta understand the bind they're in: charities deal in many thousands, even millions of dollars each year- is it worth the risk of alienating your strongest donor base, even temporarily, over the sum of $17K?
That said, I can also completely understand being pissed about it, and alienating the gamer demographic is also a measurable consequence of their actions- so... flame away, I guess.
Originally Posted by satsunada
Did they actually issue a statement that it was refused on the grounds of what GENcon represented? If so, did they not collect information on the effort unethically and misuse information given? Can we get that revoked too?The Impossible Thing Before Breakfast- "The GM is the author of the story and the players direct the actions of the protagonists." Widely repeated across many role-playing texts. Neither sub-clause in the sentence is possible in the presence of the other.
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2008-10-31, 06:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2006
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
i dont think this organization truly realized what it has gotten itself into. for fun and to show a friend, i googled the story and almost every major gaming forum has not just the story, but The Giants exact article copypasta'd into it. and you can bet your britches that the internet superheroes will have sent hundreds of letters about it by now.
also, here is something i found that is interesting.... a video on youtube added in august in which the speech given by the big G.G.'s son talked about the charity change. why did it only come out of the dark now? why hadn't we heard of it until today?
link related, its the auction of the giant 20d that was auctioned at gencon, and includes the speech that gary's son gave about the other charity that money went to.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLJ4x...eature=relatedLast edited by CabbageTheif; 2008-10-31 at 06:12 PM.
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2008-10-31, 06:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
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- Raleigh NC
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
Am I in understanding that the Christian Children's Fund violated their tax exemption by deeming the receipt of the fully and honestly given money as ethically questionable?
Don't sweat it. Pray for them, if you're of the mind. Write them a nasty gram. And find a similar charity (World Vision comes to mind) that doesn't have the same hangup.
Respectfully,
Brian P.
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2008-10-31, 06:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- The Steamboat
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
I want to e-mail them SO MUCH.
But I just can't do with this fancy language in English.
I don't know what happened to me, I used to be able to perfectly fine.....<.<
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2008-10-31, 06:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
I understand the righteous fury everyone's feeling, but, especially after the reply EvilDM posted, I wonder if their stance on the $17k stemmed from some lawyer employed by the CCF. He might have looked at the standard contract GenCon Ltd. drew up, and some bit of verbiage may have looked to him as though CCF was in some way sponsoring GenCon. (Complete rubbish, of course, but hear me out.)
As satsunada pointed out, CCF is a 501(c)(3) organization; this means it gets federal tax exemption, and must follow certain rules in order to keep this exemption. Not too surprisingly, organizations like this tend to be very careful not to violate those rules. It's possible that that could be the reason; it's possible they had a knee-jerk reaction when the words "Dungeons" and "Dragons" got connected by an ampersand; it's possible there's other reasons for this that I'm not aware of; it's possible that it's all of these to some degree.
The biggest loser in all of this? EGG wasn't able to donate $17k to his favorite charity through the sale of his creations. With luck, the ghost of Gygax will haunt CCF's halls until they not only issue an apology, but the board members all make characters and are forced to play through "Tomb of Horrors" until they all make it out alive.
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2008-10-31, 07:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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2008-10-31, 07:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2003
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
Well, exactly. They made a calculated decision that any lost donations and bad press from this move would be outweighed by the support of their regular donors. And maybe that's true, but that doesn't mean we should allow them to have their cake and eat it too by NOT publicly objecting.
Rich Burlew
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2008-10-31, 07:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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2008-10-31, 07:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
I also sent them an email. I'm an Evangelical Christian myself, and I was shocked to see this happen. I won't be posting my letter here due to its Scripture-quotes, but suffice to say I've sent in my two coppers as well.
This is also going to find its way onto my blog.
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2008-10-31, 07:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2008
Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
I find this action to be extremely unfortunate and condemn it strongly, and did as much in the email I just sent to them.
My wife and I are both avid gamers, and even more avid Christians, and we use these games not only for fun and recreation but also as a Christian outreach to our non-Christian friends, and this really disturbs us both.
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2008-10-31, 07:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
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2008-10-31, 07:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
SCRUBBED.
"Hurr Hurr, we don't want be affiliate with Gamers"
Read as:
"Hurr Hurr, we don't want be affiliated with gamers cause they play D&D."
Yeah, I sent in my 2 cp.
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2008-10-31, 08:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
Cool off. I understand that Rich is upset, but hopefully that doesn't give you or anyone else the license to threaten violence against people based on their religious or political views. I haven't got much respect for the charity, but they are under the misapprehension that fantasy gamers are nothing but virtual violence freaks. How about we all step up to the plate and prove that they're wrong.
The charity in question didn't set fire to the money, it is doing good works for a different organization as we speak. Be at peace.
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2008-10-31, 09:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
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2008-10-31, 09:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2006
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Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
I suspect that was hyperbole. No one is actually planning on punching them.
How about we all step up to the plate and prove that they're wrong.
Thank you Giant for posting it and bringing it to as wide attention. Thank you everyone else for writing letters and informing others.[CENTER]So You Wanna Be A DM? A Potentially Helpful Guide
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2008-10-31, 09:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2008
Re: Charity Rejects D&D Money - Let's Write Letters!
First off, I'm not sure why there's any reason to go so gung-ho on the letter writing. Not getting the $17,000 is a perfectly fine consequence for passing it up, and I don't think that sending letter after letter is going to change anything. Besides, the money went to another charity anyway, so it's not like it went to waste.
How so? If I was a charity or organization and did something, and got a lot of angry e-mails about it, I wouldn't bother responding to each one individually and would just make one form e-mail and send it in response. I don't see anything wrong about it being a form e-mail. Feel free to complain about what the form e-mail says or what they do, but making a form e-mail is what I think would be smart to do in this case.
Also, let's not demonize the entire charity for what was probably a decision made by just a few people at the upper levels of it, especially given that it was Gary Gygax's favorite charity. I see a lot of people complaining at the charity. I don't think we should be laying the blame at the entire thing, when it's likely that only a few people in it actually made the decision.