The new warhammer fantasy thread.

[Erloas]

Originally Posted by Cheesegear

Yes. I've seen that.
Keep in mind that I haven't regarded points cost and (extremely lucky...Well, not luck, I worked hard) real-world currency isn't an issue. This is the army I want...Points cost can get sorted later. Since I haven't worked it out yet, I'm assuming <2000 points.
I'm extremely sad that the 'two Goblin Heroes per Hero slot' rule is gone...I don't think I have enough Ld models in my army.

Well I did a quick check on your army and it is about 1750 depending on which options you give each unit, I assumed a mid amount of upgrades and a reasonable unit size for the units you didn't give numbers for.

I like the idea you have went for, but I don't know how well it will work as it is. You have 3 big blocks, only 1 of which you have set up for combat, though the archers can do well enough if they are ranked up for CR rather then to maximize the number of shots. You have 7 fast units, and only 3 hard hitting units. I'm just not sure if it is balanced enough to be really effective.

While I love small fast units for flanking like the spider riders and wolf riders, with LD6 they are most likely going to be fleeing after only 2 wounds, and they can't really fulfil their role on the field after 3 wounds (that being to negate ranks and give you a flank bonus). Although its probably not a big issue since you have so much redundency in the list for that role.

Although I would probably look at replacing a unit or two with chariots, they are also very fast and they hit hard enough to make up wounds your other units will have a hard time generating. It does stay with your goblin theme too, though you can only take 1 with your other 3 special slots being used, though you can always take some as character mounts.

Of which, I would find room for an orc fighty hero in place of one of the goblins, or I guess in addition to since you have 4 characters at 2k. You really need the help with LD, though you won't have the range to cover most of your fast units. You also absolutely have to have someone with decent LD staying in range of your trolls or they are just going to be stupid all game long. At their base LD4 they will pass 16.7% of their stupidity tests, at LD6 (NG hero, goblin shaman) it will be 41.7%, at LD7 (current goblin Heros) 58.3%, LD8 (orc hero, goblin lord) 72.2%, and an orc Lord 83.3% of the time. So I really wouldn't even think about fielding them if I couldn't get at least LD8 to lead them around. If you want something big and mean that can work autonomously you have to have a giant (which I find an ironically very fitting choice for an otherwise goblin only army).

From a fluff as well as a playing standpoint I would find the points for a least 1 unit of Orc Boyz, or maybe boar boyz. The unit of 40 goblins could easily be 30 without any real change in its effectiveness and you have a lot of room to play with points with the night goblin archers (I would probably not run more then 1, maybe 2 fanatics with each unit, 3 is just a waste of points when every opponent will know they are there and send in sacrificial units to draw them out). It just seems really out of place to have a unit of black orcs being led by only goblins. Aesthetically I would either replace the BOs with some more squigs or find some other orcs to be with them. Orcs are only 2 points a model more then goblins but they are a lot better in quite a few ways. They of course both have their uses and roles, I just think you have the roles of goblins well covered already. Even just a few units of 10 orcs with minimal upgrades mixed in will give you some good flanking/protection units at a minimum cost.


Seems like a lot of changes, but I don't really see it as more then a few little changes here and there. Some of them aren't needed with other ones, depending what you decide to do. And other then the trolls with poor leadership, the almost exclusively goblin list you have will probably work ok against some armies. Undead armies will be your bane though and you will be lucky to ever get multiple charges to work in your favor and even small units of summoned zombies will cause all sorts of problems for your fast moving small units.

[Closet_Skeleton]

My empire;

Spoiler

My camera and photography skills are too poor for the actual warhammer models thread since you can't see any detail at all.

[Winterwind]

Originally Posted by Closet_Skeleton

My camera and photography skills are too poor for the actual warhammer models thread since you can't see any detail at all.

I wasn't aware we had any standards there (gee, I hope not, I posted there a couple of times! ).

[Erloas]

Well I got a giant a while ago and have been trying to decide what I wanted to do with him. I couldn't decide which weapons to give him, so I figured I would give him some extra arms so he could hold more weapons.

Not posting this in the model thread... because well, the thread seems to have died, I couldn't find it on the 4 pages shown. I may have missed it, but I checked 3 times and didn't see it.

Spoiler

Well they aren't the best pictures, I just took some quick ones to get them up. Didn't feel like getting all my lights set up to get some good pictures.

I'm not quite done with him either, still have to put some secondary items on him, which I haven't decided yet. Going to not put them on until I get him at least mostly painted. Thinking I might go with the sack of halflings and the keg. The wine-skin goat is kind of cool but I don't think its really obvious what it is. Cage is kind of cool too, not sure if the model is going to be "too busy" as it is with all the extra arms. I'm thinking I might stick a space marine head sticking out of the bag of people. Still have the shields to stick on his forarms and shoulders.

Can't see it from these pictures, but the only open hands were on one side and weapons were on the other. So I had to cut fingers off and close them around one weapon and the other one I had to cut the thumb off and switch it to the other side of the hand. Just switching the thumb to the other side works pretty well, you can't obviously tell and it looks fairly normal.

[Pilum]

Pretty good, Erloas. More patience than I have these days - which is ironic, as I picked up a game called Ambush Alley recently (modern urban combat) which means I have to start builiding a small village worth of houses for the American invasion of Wheretheheckistan Really want to make a big effort to clear that backlog that's growing under my bed

And speaking of previous threads, in the previous one I mentioned Old Glory as an alternative for Empire/Dogs of War, but mentioned I wasn't sure how they'd fit size-wise. Well, coincidentally I picked that ruleset from Old Glory's stand at a wargames show, so I got a good look at their 25mm Italian Wars range. They'd do - maybe not side-to-side in the same regiment, but certainly as a unit in their own right. They're closer to 'true' 25mm, and maybe not *quite* as bulky as Citadel, but it didn't seem too bad. Cheaper too! And for those wanting Kislevites, alternative "Northern Empire" or Chaos Marauders, you could do worse than look at their Muscovite/Cossack ranges, they certainly painted up VERY well.

(PS for those of the American persuasion, that link is for the UK operation, this is for your side of the pond!)

[Cristo Meyers]

Just got a look at the new Skaven army book yesterday and if I weren't feeling ill I'd be positively giddy. We're getting the Vermin Lord and Doomwheel back!

(yeah, I know, they're somewhat sub-optimal for a horde army, I don't care)

The redesigns of a lot of the models are excellent. There's finally plastic Stormvermin too. Slaves now deal extra damage to any unit nearby when they break and run, Clan Moulder characters can go into battle riding mutant Rat Ogres, and there's a bunch of new warmachines (Poisoned Wind Mortar )

[Erloas]

I've read the rumors thread on Warseer about Skaven. So long as the ratling guns have to start rolling to hit and a few other minor things they should be a good army to play against. I was never that fond of the army, but it was a pretty good fight so long as they didn't just go SAD.

Personally I'm still waiting for the new Beasts of Chaos list before I get much of anything new.

[Sirroelivan]

I got my enthusiasm back for my Warriors of Chaos.
I'm thinking of making them desert themed. I'm painting up my dogs in a more lion - like colour scheme already.
Now I was wondering how to make the marauders I already have more deserty. (Well, warriors got there impervious to harsh weather and all going so those are probably less of an issue)
I was thinking of adding some turbans, scarves and such throughout the unit, but can't really think of more things to change.

[DCGFTW]

So I'm going to a friends house to play some 1500 point fantasy, but the problem is that the only serviceable army I have at the moment is about 2000 points of 40k Daemons of Chaos. I have a Bloodthirster, 32 Bloodletters, 11 hounds and a Karanak, as well as two Daemon Princes. Right now, I have the Bloodletters in units of 8 and the hounds in 3 squads of 4, but I heard that in fantasy, Bloodletters need to be in units of at least 10, and hounds need to be in units of at least 5. I also heard that Daemon Princes are HQs... err Lords? in fantasy, which means I wouldn't be able to use them, I guess.

Any suggestions?

[Erloas]

Well you are going to need the Daemons army book for fantasy because while you can get the stat line from GWs site and some of the rules there are other rules you don't have.

GWs site does list minimum unit size, which you were right about 5 for hounds, 10 for bloodletters, deamonettes, plaguebearers and flamers.

I'm not actually sure if there are deamon princes in fantasy. They have all the greater deamons (as Lord choices), but I don't see deamon princes. (I haven't played against Daemons in fantasy yet so I can't be a great help). You are going to need heralds to be your hero choices.

I don't think you have even close to 1500 points that you can legally field in fantasy.

[Closet_Skeleton]

I know they used to have daemon princes in fantasy and the old daemon prince models were all fantasy based.

Daemon princes sort of annoy me since they're so much better than Greater Daemons under the current rules.

I bought and painted a new engineer and vampire, as you really can't see from this terrible photo.

Spoiler

[Cristo Meyers]

Originally Posted by Erloas

I've read the rumors thread on Warseer about Skaven. So long as the ratling guns have to start rolling to hit and a few other minor things they should be a good army to play against. I was never that fond of the army, but it was a pretty good fight so long as they didn't just go SAD.

Personally I'm still waiting for the new Beasts of Chaos list before I get much of anything new.

Be glad, Ratling guns now have to roll to hit.

There's something about Move and Shoot in there too, but I didn't have enough time to actually get too in-depth.

[TheThan]

Since my bro plays skaven (he even sold his DE stuff off for some 40K stuff) exclusively, he showed me the new models on their site. They look good. he’ll have to get the new codex and see for himself.

[Capt'n Ironbrow]

excuse me for thread necromancy please, I have been away and found it via google... hunting for 5th edition material... Closet_Skeleton's army is the closest I got so far.

Originally Posted by Closet_Skeleton

My empire;

Spoiler

My camera and photography skills are too poor for the actual warhammer models thread since you can't see any detail at all.

Nice 5th edition army Closet_Skeleton. Good to see more veterans regain interest in Warhammer Fantasy.
I guess you started during the 5th edition. Correct? the halflings and Ogres used to be Imperial Regiments. I had some halflings too, and their burning-stew catapult (hotpot). Also used one unit of (Imperial) Dwarfs to bolster the battle-lines with high toughness and leadership.
I think they dropped them because the possibilities it offered empire, you could make an empire army with nothing but Ogres (fight better, die way harder), Dwarves (fight better, die harder, braver) and Halflings (shoot better, braver) as regiment choices... and maybe that's what some (affluent, these were expensive miniatures) players did. or max characters, monsters and machines + ogres and dwarves to hold the line.

Found the thread because I just regained an interest in the old game. have been thinking about Fantasy Battles a lot this week.
especially 5th edition comes to mind, I had been playing for about 6 years already when 6th edition was released and rejoiced at every fix it made. except the exclusion of Halflings for the empire (as a rare choice of course). Everything that is ruled by an Elector should be on the empire list. They Have Responsibilities ;)
they shouldn't just be dogs of war, they are subjects of the emperor! :p

[Closet_Skeleton]

Originally Posted by Capt'n Ironbrow

excuse me for thread necromancy please, I have been away and found it via google... hunting for 5th edition material... Closet_Skeleton's army is the closest I got so far.

It's not really thread necromancy if there have been posts in the same month

Originally Posted by Capt'n Ironbrow

Nice 5th edition army Closet_Skeleton. Good to see more veterans regain interest in Warhammer Fantasy.
I guess you started during the 5th edition. Correct?

I started during 6th edition but my 5th edition Empire were pretty much useless since I didn't have the knights or swordsmen. I used Undead in 5th edition instead.

My 5th edition army would have been 1 wizard, Karl Franz, 3 ogres, 7 halflings and 6 flagellants.

Originally Posted by Capt'n Ironbrow

they shouldn't just be dogs of war, they are subjects of the emperor! :p

Really I just wish dogs of war were only special. I just use the halflings as human archers.

My Empire actually won a battle today. He had a lot of hounds and marauderers while I had every point sink I could apart from the griffon to make it up to 2000 so we actually had the bizare circumstance of Empire being outnumbered by chaos. I only had 5 knights, 7 flagellants, my general and warrior priest (unharmed) left, but I'd reduced the enemy to 1 broken unit of three chaos knights (he fled as a charge reaction for some reason) and 1 broken unit of marauderers. Thankfully he didn't have a chaos lord (he was in turn thankful I didn't have a steam tank) and I was able to kill his general with a charging flagellant champion bolstered my maximum martyrs. His general spent all his time killing swordsmen while mine fought sorcerers in challanges. Pity everything except for my knights with general and warrior priest, helblaster and flagellants were useless except for tying his units up.

[BloodyAngel]

Hey folks. It's been a while since I've had anything to report... but this is a story that MUST be told.

I bring my dark elves out of semi-retirement to face a friend of mine who insists on using daemons. Normally, I'm more about my dogs of war nowadays, but against daemons, I figured I needed something that had a chance. He unloads on me with a mostly Khorne army that proceeds to eat my knights alive, run my hydra down with a chariot and otherwise smack the crap out of me. By the top of turn 3, I've lost well over half my army. his Bloodthirster, has rear-charged my general's unit and snapped it in two, and caught it in pursuit. Having little else to lose, I make what SHOULD have been a foolish move, and flank-charge the daemon with a unit of dark riders.... because why not?

Said riders proceed to somehow roll insanely well and sneak in two wounds against him, while the daemon rolls bare minimum for his number of attacks in return (he had a blessing where his number of attacks was random... and usually very high) then whiff them ALL... The GREATER FREAKING DAEMON, then loses combat by 4, flubs his leadership check horribly and poofs out of existence. My riders are feeling cocky, and overrun into the side of a chariot with a hero on it. The same one that killed my Hydra... Boom! They take it down in almost the same way, taking only one wound in return. He spends a turn trying to maneuver what remains of his force, and on my next, the riders swoop into the fray again and plow into the side of a unit of Flesh hounds, while one of my few other remaining units (a group of 7 shades) pops out of a forest and manages to gun down his one remaining hero (a tzeeneth spellcaster) with their crossbows. In a series of terrible rolls for him, the flesh hounds take 3 wounds, and return with only one... then roll a 12 on their leadership test, and only one hound remains. The turn after, my riders manage to kill the last remaining hound, and the rest of the game I just run around sniping at his infantry blocks to middling success.

In that first rider charge, I cost him near half his points... and the game ends up being a minor victory for me, despite an utterly SAVAGE first three turns of him ripping me apart. I haven't seen a comeback that hilarious in a long, long time.

[Ashtar]

It's always the ones where you claw your way back from the worst defeat to victory that make the game memorable and so rewarding. Congratulations!

I think you should give your dark riders a token / mark or something to show of their great victory over a Bloodthirster.

[Closet_Skeleton]

I played Chaos again with almost the same army (swapped my wizard's horse and my crossbowmen's standard and musician to upgrade my archer detatchment into some hunstmen) and this time it was a complete slaughter. I lost my huntsmen, half my knights and my swordsmen and flagellant champions. He had 1 unit of broken chaos warriors and 1 2 man unit of marauder horsemen.

In turn 2, my hunstmen managed to wipe out a unit of marauder horsemen before being charged in turn by another unit and wiped out. I charged his warshrine with my rieksguard and managed to break it and pursue into his chosen. I also managed to kill 4 chaos knights with 1 cannon ball (he turned them to face my swordsmen and ogres forgetting about the cannon on the flank) and kill the remaining one with my crossbowmen.

Then his chaos lord charged my swordsmen, killed the champion and broke due to my warbanner and griffon standard. My knights were tied up by the chosen but I managed to kill his champion and sorcerer.

Then my ogres and pistoliers charged his warriors, breaking them but failing to catch them. His lord rallied and got charged by my swordsmen and flagellants, defeating the prophet of doom in a challange but breaking again and fleeing into my rieksguard. Finally I managed to break his chosen and my rieksguard wiped them out.

My helblaster was never in range for the entire fight though

[TheThan]

Yeah, the crowning moments of awesome are what make this game memorable.

I had this one game where my bro (skaven) lined up a rattling gun and a group of warplock jezzails (6) against my tyrant and his squad of ironguts. So in order to protect them I placed a unit of gnoblars (read: weak ass goblins for those that don’t know) to act as a meat shield for a turn or two while I get close enough to charge.

Well it turned out that that throw away squad of gnoblars took sustained fire from a rattling gun and six gunners for four turns. I lost model after model but they would not break from the shooting. Just kept on moving forward. They actually charged and killed the ratling gun before the died (think they had like three models left). Blitz had to actually kill every model in that unit before he could fire at the ogres behind them. Which managed to sweep up the rest of that side in close combat.

[YPU]

Im trying to build a small deamon army. Im looking mainly for a cheap army, to be honest. The bloodletters will be a exploration of the army painters shading dips and red undercoat.
So what would be a good army at, say 1000 points and going up to 2000 points from there? And a cheap army at that, I’m hoping. Any suggestions?

Say does a bloodthirster get a bonus attack for two hand weapons?

[DCGFTW]

It would be rather odd if they did...

[Closet_Skeleton]

Demons are a nice cheap army, but they're also considered to be a cheesy twink army. Even a bad demon list will slaughter most armies.

It's not that they should never be played, but you won't end up very popular if they're all you play.

Demons are also a bad beginner army because they ignore many of the rules of the game.

Originally Posted by YPU

Say does a bloodthirster get a bonus attack for two hand weapons?

Not unless it states "2 hand weapons" as its equipment. Anyway, trying to weazel an extra attack out of a bloodthirster is petty.

[Erloas]

A bloodthrister would get an extra attack for a second hand weapon, but he can't get a second hand weapon so it is a moot point. Since you can't get the bonus from a magic weapon and regular weapon, and he has no option to choose a second hand weapon. While he is shown with a whip and an axe it clearly states in the profile that they count as a single hand weapon.

If you want a cheap army that will limit you to mostly deamonettes and bloodletters, since all core troops are the same cost per model and they come in sets of 10 for the price of 5 metal models of the other choices.

Most of the special and rare units end up at a fairly similiar dollar per 4-5 points worth of model, so any of the choices will be about equal in the goal to get started as cheap as you can.

I'm really surprised to not see the mounted daemonettes of slaanesh any more, seeing as how they are still in the army book and they used to have models. I'm wondering if it had to do with boobs and nipples, since those models hide nothing, the other daemonettes did too, but those were remade, the only other model I can think of that also shows them are the Morathi model and that hasn't been changed or removed. Also harpies (sans nipples, but completely bare) are still there and there is a WE dryad that kind of has them, but it is kind of a tree too, so many that doesn't count. At any rate...

A box of daemonettes or bloodletters will run about 120-175 depending on how much command and if you give them a magic banner or not. Plaguebearers and flamers are the same, though it takes 2 boxes of them to make the minimum unit size.
Most of the special and rare choices run 70-100ish points per box.
Chaos spawns (from warriors of Chaos) might make some pretty good fiends of slaneesh or beasts of nurgle, and they would be a bit cheaper since you get two. Though you can only use 1 rare choice until 2k.


For hero choices, prior to 2k you are limited to heralds and a few herald like special characters (and mount options). Most heralds sans mount are 150ish when equiped. Given that heralds really boost up the power or suvivability of your troops you should probably look at getting 2-3 of them of matching types to run with your troops. You can't take any of the greater deamons until you get Lord choices, so 2000+ games. They don't have much for herald models now, but there are some warriors of chaos models that might work well for some choices.

At 1000 points I would look at 3-4 troop choices (daemons have very good troops) 2 heralds, and 2-3 special and rare choices.

Of course right now thats just a guideline sort of list. If you want me to build a specific list I can do that. You should at least pick 1-2 gods for me to work with for that though.

[YPU]

Don’t worry, I’m not trying to weasel out that extra attack, but it wouldn’t be the fist time GW wrote one thing and meant something slightly different.

Making heralds myself really wont be a problem sounds like fine challenge to me, actually I already started working on a tzeentch herald as a large empty robe with a staff and book. Or this one could work.

Actually, about that. I saw a conversion somewhere that had emptied nightgoblin cloaks as flamers, looked OK and considering it’s a 1.5 euro per model VS 5 euro per model is kind of worth it. Would need to get bases for them tough. (pretty much all deaons are 25mm aren’t they?)

Seekers can be made from spider riders and normal deamonettes torsos.
Flesh hounds can easily be represented by WoC hounds.
Yea I don’t have much money right now, and I really want to get back into fantasy, had a bit to much 40K for now, need a more even mix.

I’m pretty sure nobody in my gaming group would mind me playing a army that’s cheesy by nature. (I wont use anything munchkiny tough, deamons are enough by themselves as you mentioned) I am the guy who gets beaten pretty much always, so it would perhaps even be a nice way to challenge my regular opponents again.

I was thinking to get a decent split of gods in the eventual 2K army. At 1K it should mostly be khorne and one other I guess, probably slaanesh since they have plastics, , but to be honest I don’t really like the new demonettes myself.

[YPU]

Thought for 1000 point army, something I could spray and dip in a few days. Two heralds of khorne one general and one army standard. Three ten bloodletter units full command each, two units of five bloodhounds. Using some warriors of chaos characters with bloodletter heads (you do get spare ones right?), perhaps skulltakers as army general instead. I might be fiercely miscalculating, but between demonic gifts and magic banners that seems like a 1000pts force just under 100 euro’s. Its very resistant to magic and the hounds can hunt down archers, in no way a highly versatile army, but unmistakably brutal.

[thorgrim29]

Originally Posted by Closet_Skeleton

the bizarre circumstance of Empire being outnumbered by chaos.

Eh.... Brings me back to a game a few years back (7e orcs had just come out), whre I played my dwarf horde. I played, if memory serves, 5 infantry units (2 warriors, 2 longbeards, 1 hammerer, all 20+ strong) 2 small units of thunderers, a lord on shield, a thane of pain (4 strength 5 attacks hitting first) and a runesmiths, along with an organ gun and maybe a catapult. The other guy had two giants, 2 lobbers, and a few big units of orcs and goblins. It was a fun game, for me.

[Eldan]

So, it's been, I guess, about six years since I last played Warhammer Fantasy. At that time all my friends changed over to 40k and I followed.
Ashtar has offered to lend me his rulebook, so my woefully outdated and fuzzy memories of the rules can be refreshed.

I heard a new Skaven codex is coming out soon. Does anyone know when that would be? Because it seems I can't find any data on that on the GW homepage...

[dsmiles]

Hey.
I'm a 40K'er playing Tau. What would be a good WHFB army for me? I don't know much about WHFB, and am looking for shooty tactics like the Tau.

[Eldan]

If you want my totally outdated opinion: my neighbour once had a dark elf army consisting almost only of repeater ballistae and crossbows. They were painful and quite, quite shooty. However, warhammer tends to be less shooty and more blocks of infantry, from what I remember. Formations marching and all that stuff.
You can, however, get ridiculous amounts of magic lightning, as my friend with his six or so goblin shamans once proved. I'm also in love with the skaven ratling gun and warlock, who can also shoot lightning via crazy warp technology.

[Discord]

I think there are actually very few armies that can't be excessively shooty. Chaos comes to mind. But Dwarves, Elves of any kind, Empire? Shooty overkill.