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2010-12-22, 01:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
Help with a Ping Pong Paladin Idea [3.PF]
Originally Posted by The core ideaOriginally Posted by A few minutes later
Based on that, it should be theoretically possible to create an item that automatically casts Atonement on a Paladin as an immediate action when they fall, or at least one round later.
If I'm reading the rules right, you should be able to create a slotless magic item that does this for 662,000 gp.
Is this within the rules?
If it is within the rules, is there a way to get the cost down to the point where this is a viable tactic, rather than a thought experiment?
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2010-12-22, 02:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2008
Re: Help with a Ping Pong Paladin Idea [3.PF]
I believe that Atonement only works with "unwittingly committing" an evil act. Strapping a baby onto your arm and blocking sword strikes with him/her would not be unwittingly in any sense of the word.
I suppose it might work for a Cleric or Druid who wants to repeatedly violate their oaths, although at a 500 XP cost each time. Please note that doing so involves "interceding with your deity" and as such, your deity may decide that strapping babies to your arm and crafting an item to cast Atonement on yourself is not worth redeeming the caster. It still won't work on Paladins, though, because Paladins cannot get their powers back, even with Atonement, when they intentionally perform an evil deed.
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2010-12-22, 02:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
Re: Help with a Ping Pong Paladin Idea [3.PF]
Actually, the story involves the enemy holding a baby as a shield. The atonement is for "accidentally" harming it in the pursuit of justice.
Isn't this what the Grey Guard class is for?
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<Flickerdart> It's like a pyramid scheme, except the payoff is bleeding to death!
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2010-12-22, 02:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
Re: Help with a Ping Pong Paladin Idea [3.PF]
Actually, Pathfinder changed both of those things. Apparently outside of DM disagreement all you need to do to "intercede" is spend money. There isn't even an XP cost anymore.
Additionally, the PF Paladin can atone as per any other divine caster.
However, in the case of a creature atoning for deliberate misdeeds, you must intercede with your deity (requiring you to expend 2,500 gp in rare incense and offerings).
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2010-12-22, 03:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
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- Woodland, California
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Re: Help with a Ping Pong Paladin Idea [3.PF]
Yeah, it's to make things easier for the player, so that the DM can't make you perma-fall when he's having a bad day. Granted, if you deliberately screw up, then it's your own fault.
I'm almost positive you can't cast Atonement on yourself, though. Even if you can, making an item that does it for you is in very bad taste and if you plan to fall as a paladin, then you aren't doing your job right. Typically Atonement is cast on you by a high priest of your faith or someone in a position to redeem you; a paladin usually would go to a temple of Heironeous (For 3.5) or Iomedae (For PF).Last edited by Ashram; 2010-12-22 at 03:12 PM.
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2010-12-22, 04:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
Re: Help with a Ping Pong Paladin Idea [3.PF]
Not doing your job right is kind of what I'm going for here. I have a long running WTF contest with another player/DM and I'd like to have this on the stack of potential ideas.
The spell description for Atonement is "living creature touched", so as long as the Paladin isn't also a zombie, it should theoretically work, right?
Is there anything in the RAW that would prevent it, besides cost?
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2010-12-22, 04:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2010
Re: Help with a Ping Pong Paladin Idea [3.PF]
What kind of contest and how far is this going to go?
If you are the DM then you can do whatever you want,
but it seems like intentionally falling would require some
serious intercession and penalties. At least, that's how
I would go. I have a lot of love for the Paladin, and don't
think his code should be mistreated.
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2010-12-22, 04:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
Re: Help with a Ping Pong Paladin Idea [3.PF]
I'm reasonably sure that using a loophole to weasel your way out of the paladin code is by itself a violation of the paladin code
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2010-12-22, 05:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
Re: Help with a Ping Pong Paladin Idea [3.PF]
I and the other guy switch off between two campaigns for our groups, but we also tend to run a fair number of one-shots to keep things from getting too serious.
Generally when we do the one-shots whoever isn't DMing will make a ridiculous (not necessarily overpowered, but ridiculous) character that makes the other one pore over the sheet, double check a few source books, re-read some rules, and end up saying "yeah, it's legal, but I don't know why you even thought of that, much less statted it up."
It's all in good fun.Last edited by subject42; 2010-12-23 at 11:06 AM.
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2010-12-22, 05:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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- Department of Smiting
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2010-12-22, 05:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
Re: Help with a Ping Pong Paladin Idea [3.PF]
As a DM, I would agree. Its just as bad as saying "The baby is meaningless, I will be forgiven. My actions are justified regardless of the cost, which is nothing after all." Stabitty-stab-stab-stab-STAB!
No... just no.
Good does not work that way. To overcome evil, good often has to make personal sacrifices. It would be time to kick you into the darker part of the alignment pool.Last edited by Eldonauran; 2010-12-22 at 06:01 PM.
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2010-12-22, 07:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
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- New Brunswick, Canada
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Re: Help with a Ping Pong Paladin Idea [3.PF]
Ya, if I was a DM in this situation, I'd simply tell the player that their Deity doesn't accept the atonement. You're not allowed to make your own Get Out of Jail Free cards.
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2010-12-22, 10:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2010
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2010-12-22, 11:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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2010-12-23, 01:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2010
Re: Help with a Ping Pong Paladin Idea [3.PF]
you can has sig