Let's Read: The Dungeons and Dragons 5e Monster Manual!

[Shining Wrath]

I think it's silly that angels have to be lawful. Chaotic deities would have chaotic angels that obeyed from free will, because they serve their deity out of a conscious decision that this god represents what they believe in. And being angels, they would be right, so unless the god changed, they wouldn't switch allegiances.

Evil gods would use demons / devils instead of angels. I'm not sure what the relationship between Demogorgon and Erthynul is like, other than complicated, but I'm sure Erthynul can borrow a Balor or three when he needs to.

Angels ought to show up when it makes sense that a good aligned god would want to intervene. Depending on setting, that's "never" or "whenever the party is in a tough spot" or "as a climactic moment to indicate that yes, you just did something very special".

Our last campaign (3.5) involved the dragons, and their gods, having been banished from the world, with the gods trapped in orbs. When the three orbs were finally reunited (party had two, BBNG had Io's), a Solar showed up and demanded the three orbs and released the gods from their imprisonment. BBNG was a blue dragon. He didn't recognize the solar, but Io (from inside his orb) certainly did, and the blue dragon surrendered. Literally a Deus Ex Machina, but the whole point of the campaign had been to not only meddle in the affairs of dragons, but draconic deities, so it worked.

For 5e, I can see an angel coming in response to the Cleric's Miracle class feature. "Pelor, save us!", and rolls 20 on the D20. Sound of Star Trek teleporter, and Deva appears.

[Naanomi]

In Planescape Angels work well as the 'greater good'; when archons and guardinals and eladrin start bickering, Angels are there to remind everyone of the real enemy.

Ironically, since they are tied to the good Gods, they also make servicable 'good Vs good' opponents when two dogmatic LG gods start opposing each other and archons wouldn't have any part in the battle; Angels are the soldiers to use (and adventuring parties). So yeah, Planescape: Angels more useful

[strangebloke]

I am curious if anyone has used these in a monotheistic campaign setting.

A friend of mine in college was putting a lot of work into a christian based campaign setting for DnD (kind of more like Narnia than the real world). I always thought the idea of fluffing everything to fit that concept could be pretty cool, but never got around to trying it myself.

We did this.

Post-apocalyptic setting where a war between heaven and hell had left the world completely unlivable without magic. All magic was derived from a silvery substance called gendum that the planar creatures had left behind. Clerics tattooed the substance into their skin, wizards mixed it with ink and drew out spell formulas, etc. The silvery substance was expended after use, and the few pockets of civilization that existed relied on their ability to find more of the substance in ruins.

Currency=magic=life. Very fun setting.

We actually used different stat blocks for the angels than the ones in the MM. Seraphim were essentially gods, each with their own unique host of lower level angels. Michael's used the typical stat blocks, but had the super alien look; Lucifer had demons, of course. Everybody's favorites were Metatron and his machine-angels. So many transformers jokes.

[Nifft]

I think it's silly that angels have to be lawful.

Accept
No
Good
Except
Lawful

(But seriously, monotheistic concepts like unambiguously Good Angels don't work for me in a polytheistic, many-different-types-of-good setting. Give me stuff like Archons vs. Couatls, please.)

[ShikomeKidoMi]

Accept
(But seriously, monotheistic concepts like unambiguously Good Angels don't work for me in a polytheistic, many-different-types-of-good setting. Give me stuff like Archons vs. Couatls, please.)

I think it would fit better if they did the same thing as demons and devils-- some of them work for gods but most of them have their own society led by 'angel lords', making them simply the good planes' counterparts to fiends. The other thing they should borrow from demons and devils is having a wide variety of designs and types for alignments.

Actually, now that I start talking about this, I'm pretty sure the ideal way of handling angels owes more to Planescape than D&D 5th edition.

[Eldan]

Angels were always the odd ones out that made little sense. You have the nine exemplar races for the alignments that follow their own lords, instead of any gods, the Slaad, Eladrin, Guardinal, Archon, Modron, Devils, Yugoloth and Demons, and then, weirdly stuck on their as well, you have the angels, servitors of the gods, who, for some reason, only follow the good gods and create a massive imbalance. It never made much sense.

I prefer using them as rarely as possible and giving the gods personalized servants instead.

[RazDelacroix]

For my own setting at least, I have Angels from the 5th Ed MM as being of any good alignment (THAT'S PLANESCAPE BABY!), however there are other angels that can be formed from the focused and/or errant thoughts of deities. Even/especially evil deities. They just might not...look angelic. Like the one with thirteen eyes upon an infant's face with the body of a wheel and moves by flapping it's moulting wings against the unseen winds of orphan's cries.

You know, the one behind you looking over your shoulder.

[Eldan]

One idea I had is that the pastel winged body builder is an image they project. They are all weird and alien and horrifying, but disguise themselves as something humanoid when interacting with people, then uncloak when they are ready to smite some cities.

[Ralanr]

Wait...I thought demons and devils didn't work with gods? I assumed they outright hated them.

[DireSickFish]

Wait...I thought demons and devils didn't work with gods? I assumed they outright hated them.

A lot of evil dieties have demon and devils that follow them/they use much like good dieties use angels. Some because they make there home planes in the Abyss or Hell and others because it's relativly easy for a god to bully them into submission.

Lolth for example had a plane of the abyss called the demonweb pits as her home and Yochlol's are her servants and also demons.

What else would you use as a go between for gods to mortals besides demons/devils?

[RazDelacroix]

Sure, fiends and deities of all stripes really do not like each other. You know what a fiend likes though? Power. Souls. The chance to corrupt mortals into performing evil deeds.

When the aims of a deity and fiend are aligned, you can find the two bargaining on the soul market for favors and plot-relevant-trinkets. An angel of good works well with good deities to spread the goodness around. An evil angel/fiend works with evil deities on a strictly business/pleasure basis.

Man, wish I had my brother's Planescape Hellbound box stuff with me. Books in there had this topic COVERED.

[Ralanr]

What else would you use as a go between for gods to mortals besides demons/devils?

Evil avatars or some form of evil outsider.

Yeah I didn't think much on that.

[Naanomi]

4E had angels working for evil gods as well as good

Some theorize there are evil equivalents of angels but they are hidden/have been sealed away due to Blood War machinations (or older similar conflicts)

Others say it isn't in Evil's nature to have a unifying force in the way Good does

[Shining Wrath]

One idea I had is that the pastel winged body builder is an image they project. They are all weird and alien and horrifying, but disguise themselves as something humanoid when interacting with people, then uncloak when they are ready to smite some cities.

CS Lewis had their natural shape being more or less a column of light, but they could take whatever form they thought would work best for their audience.

[ShikomeKidoMi]

For my own setting at least, I have Angels from the 5th Ed MM as being of any good alignment (THAT'S PLANESCAPE BABY!), however there are other angels that can be formed from the focused and/or errant thoughts of deities. Even/especially evil deities. They just might not...look angelic. Like the one with thirteen eyes upon an infant's face with the body of a wheel and moves by flapping it's moulting wings against the unseen winds of orphan's cries.

Not angelic looking? What are you talking about? That sounds more like a Biblical angel than the guys in the Monster Manual.

[Sigreid]

Angels as described in the MM are just manifestations of the deity's will and power. Kinda like a mini-me avatar. Sometimes they go rogue, and I kinda see that as the deity offloading their psychosis/mental imbalances/personality defects allowing the deity to stay true. Imagine if you could take all your fear, anger, hate, doubt and place it in a character in a MMO and let it run amok while you go happily on without them.

[Envyus]

It should be noted that Angels are not always right. They think they are always right and because of this they won't compromise. This is stated as a reason in the manual as why some of them fall.

Zariel Lady of the First Layer of Hell is stated to be a fallen angel who became a devil. Like Baalzebul who was an Archon who became a Devil.

[Ralanr]

It should be noted that Angels are not always right. They think they are always right and because of this they won't compromise. This is stated as a reason in the manual as why some of them fall.

Zariel Lady of the First Layer of Hell is stated to be a fallen angel who became a devil. Like Baalzebul who was an Archon who became a Devil.

Yep, which is what I love about Angels. You cannot convince them that they may be wrong because everything is black and white to them.

Helps show that the concept of grey morality is a mortal concept.

[Dreadfull]

If you bring these into your campaign, you have to explain why they aren't using grapple & drop tactics. Or, for that matter, picking up massive rocks and dropping those from 500' above the party. Gravity still works, and there is no reason for a creature that can lift a 50 pound rock and drop it from high above to ever come within arrow range. They may not hit often, but unless you can find sturdy shelter they only have to hit once.

a 500 ft fall takes roughly 6 seconds. This gives the party pretty much a round to dodge. Iirc a round is stil supposed to represent around 6 seconds, right?

[Ralanr]

a 500 ft fall takes roughly 6 seconds. This gives the party pretty much a round to dodge. Iirc a round is stil supposed to represent around 6 seconds, right?

Yep. 1 round is 6 seconds.

[RazDelacroix]

Not angelic looking? What are you talking about? That sounds more like a Biblical angel than the guys in the Monster Manual.

Tell that to the poor commoners who only ever heard of the fluffy-winglies.

[Shining Wrath]

a 500 ft fall takes roughly 6 seconds. This gives the party pretty much a round to dodge. Iirc a round is stil supposed to represent around 6 seconds, right?

Ever play baseball? Ever see someone hit a towering pop-up and the infielders have no idea where it's going to land? When I coached Little League, I coached my outfielders to help the infielders out in that situation.

Judging exactly where something is going to land when it is dropped from straight above you is non-trivial. Since it's a rock it's not perfectly smooth, there's all sorts of aerodynamic effects making it shift course, which makes it difficult compared to the baseball popup.

So yes, if the party is aware the aararocka dropped the rocka they can attempt to dodge. They may even dodge successfully. If they are somewhere with constraints on how far they can run (ship, canyon, mountain top) it might not work.

In which case the birdman goes and gets another rock. Even if he's dropping one rock every 2 or 3 minutes, unless you can get under cover, sooner or later someone will zig when they should have zagged.

EDIT: True story: Babe Ruth once hit a pop up that went so high the 2nd baseman got dizzy trying to watch it and fell down, and the ball landed next to him. Babe only got a double out of it because he was laughing too hard to run

[ShikomeKidoMi]

Judging exactly where something is going to land when it is dropped from straight above you is non-trivial. Since it's a rock it's not perfectly smooth, there's all sorts of aerodynamic effects making it shift course, which makes it difficult compared to the baseball popup.

Wait... Are you arguing the party shouldn't be able to dodge or that the bird men shouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell of hitting them? Because you've just made the strategy seem terrible.

[MrConsideration]

Animated Objects

Animated Objects are objects that have been animated by magic, funnily enough. In most games I've seen similar things used, they've been somewhere between a monster and a trap: you tried to nick a few goldpieces from the ceremonial armour's codpiece and now it's kicking your head in. There's little in the way of implied story ('a wizard made it') and these things fit in almost any encounter or situation: dusty tombs, abandoned castles, gardens, harems, magic shops, temples...
In older editions, there were lengthy explanations of what level a character had to be, and how much it would cost, to make similar objects themselves. To me it always seemed fairly pointless for an adventurer, but I think these could be used as guards in player-owned keeps or properties in a high-magic campaign.

Diplomacy does not work: these creatures are inexorable in following their orders. This tends to make for tedious encounters in my view, as the PCs are only going to overcome these animated objects by destroying them: there's no room for imaginative wheeling-and-dealing or creative solutions. This is a combat encounter. Roll initiative and get on with it.

I personally think they're useful for people who DM with children to avoid any actual violence going on, whilst letting their players enjoy some combat.

I'll deal with the Animated Objects as one entry.

Art
The Animated Armour is campy yet functional. The spikes and decoration are over-the-top and a bit silly, but they'e managed to convey a menace; a motion - the Animated Armour has bowed it's head, as though to duck under a ceiling to approach: it's a hulking, impassive machine.

The Flying Sword is a picture of a sword. It is, again, functional, but pretty hard to get excited about. It's testament to the money WOTC put into production values that this somehow merits a picture - in the old AD&D Monster Manual loads of creatures go undrawn (perhaps for the best).

The Rug of Smothering looks quite expressive considering it's a carpet, but the expression I'm getting is more puppydog-eager-to-please than furniture of doom. I'm not sure how it could be much better though - the idea of a carpet that murders you is stupid from the outset.

Purpose and Tactics

The purpose of these creatures is to be killed by your PCs. There is no Gygaxian naturalism here - these beings do not eat, or drink, or breathe, so all you need to explain the existence of one is that someone, somewhere, at sometime, did not want anyone poking around in this place.

The Animated Armour works as a low-level solo encounter, but could also be muscle and cannon-fodder for a higher-level spell-casting foe. Whilst the Wizard brings out the big guns, the Animated Armour(s) march towards your PCs and physically slow-down. For their CR, their defences are solid (although how a living suit of armour counts as 'natural armour' is beyond me) and they have a list of immunities to any status your PC might think to put on them.
The Flying Sword is much the same, and could function as a mook for a spell-caster too.

The Rug of Smothering has another trick up its sleeve (or is that the Cloaker?) in that it pretends to be a rug then ambushes you from beneath. Anyone being grappled by the Rug gets half the damage inflicted on it. This is a nasty ability, but fairly useless if the Rug is attacking alone - I'd put one of these Rugs in a room where a different battle is taking place and have a PC stumble on to it - giving the other characters the option of damaging it, affecting a rescue, or continuing their battle and hoping their hapless comrade escapes.

The ability to Dispel
these enemies, or use Antimagic to disrupt them adds another element to the combat, but with 5e's philosophy of rulings over rules I don't think I needed it explaining to me what the effect would be - if the characters thought to plop a Dispel on these guys I would simply rule it as a save-or-die effect for these creatures and congratulate my players on their creativity.

Fluff
The fluff for these monsters is annoyingly dungeon-y. Animated Armours and Rugs of Smothering transparently exist to occupy dungeons. The text for the Animated Armour mentions riddles and other challenges (the pragmatic player would much rather blow up a CR1 monster than be bothered with riddles, in my experience).

As an alternative to 'made by a wizard', I like the idea that these things spontaneously generate in areas of high magic, like the Feywild or a Wizard's tower. It might actually be some kind of annoyance to the Wizard that his antique, decorative armour keeps wandering about or his carpets are getting bolshie!

Hooks
All the furniture in a Wizard's tower has animated. Not only that, it has unionised - it wants fair pay, time off, healthcare benefits with a reputable carpenter. The Wizard is at his wit's end when he asks the PC's aid...

The armour of Ogrid IV has been in his family for generations. When he donned it, he was surpised to find someone had animated it - and now he wanders his castle, trapped inside, lashing out at his terrified, coronation guests, just as your players arrive...


Next time: The Ankheg.

[Naanomi]

Good uses for animated stuff:
-convey a sense of casual magic: yes a highly-level wizard lives here; wow those ancient elves used magic everywhere; just how rich is this merchant that he can afford all this magic stuff?
-create paranoia: that rug attacked us and this whole castle had rugs... (Golems and mimics often also serve this role)
-as mindless 'no moral problem with killing them' minions, like undead but without the inherently evil vibe
-use their 'robotic thinking' in puzzles (the animated swords only attack when we touch the floor in that room so what if we rig a rope...)

'Golem-lite' have seen lots of use in my home game, but mostly because one of the big nations is defined by its casual golem use

[DireSickFish]

I used them in an ancient mansion the players had uncovered. I like them because they are a good challenge for a low level party and could have survived an indeterminate amount of time being buried away. They fill a similar role to Golems but at a lower level.

If you want to spice it up you can also use the Animated Objects from the spell Animate Objects. The only thing to do is figure out what CR they would be.

In the given fluff they are all mindless but it would be trivial to have them be the souls of caretakers to the former estate trying to uphold there duties still.

[Shining Wrath]

Wait... Are you arguing the party shouldn't be able to dodge or that the bird men shouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell of hitting them? Because you've just made the strategy seem terrible.

Both. The chance of a hit is pretty random, but the ability to guess where it's going to land and move away is also pretty random.

If the party scatters the chance of hitting one member is probably low. But that might cause other problems. Aararocka strategy for a group might be to start of with bombing, force the party to scatter, then swoop down on one victim at a time. If they don't scatter, continue bombing.

Chance of a hit might be N%, where N is the number of party members within 20' of a targeted point.

[Ralanr]

Personally I love animated armor. From experience it's AC and damage is a bit high for a level 1 encounter (party of 3, my character almost got killed). But it's something I would just love to use in any scenario.

[Shining Wrath]

Animated objects also have a long fantasy tradition; when the Great Magical Event took place, the very furnishings gained a form of life. This can be amusingly Disneyesque as in Beauty and the Beast or as dark as the Fritz Leiber story where the "protagonist's" anger suffused everything around him, so that his typewriter keys started attacking him as he tried to write, the band-aids attempted to smother him, and so on. I think Stephen King did a short about that idea, too.

So in addition to "a wizard did it!" and "there's just a whole lot of free-floating magic here", you can add Animated Objects as a sort of special no-turn undead; the overwhelming rage / anger / sadness / love / lust / loneliness of the former inhabitant manifests itself through the furnishings of the place.

They are amusingly cheesy in my opinion, and certainly no more "This exists for players to kill it!" than oozes and Dire Wombats.

[Ralanr]

Animated objects also have a long fantasy tradition; when the Great Magical Event took place, the very furnishings gained a form of life. This can be amusingly Disneyesque as in Beauty and the Beast or as dark as the Fritz Leiber story where the "protagonist's" anger suffused everything around him, so that his typewriter keys started attacking him as he tried to write, the band-aids attempted to smother him, and so on. I think Stephen King did a short about that idea, too.

So in addition to "a wizard did it!" and "there's just a whole lot of free-floating magic here", you can add Animated Objects as a sort of special no-turn undead; the overwhelming rage / anger / sadness / love / lust / loneliness of the former inhabitant manifests itself through the furnishings of the place.

They are amusingly cheesy in my opinion, and certainly no more "This exists for players to kill it!" than oozes and Dire Wombats.

I'm saddened by the lack of dire animals in 5e.

I want a dire chicken. Then I want a restaurant chain centered around deep fried dire chickens.