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Thread: Rules Questions

  1. - Top - End - #361
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Since Swipe doesn't move the top Monster, you can't get to the lower Monsters, and you can't battle the same Monster twice.
    Why can't you battle the same monster twice? (Well, I guess it's because you say so , but is that spelled out in the rules anywhere?) Does this also mean that using Turn Undead or Poorly Planned Illusion against Xykon can only weaken Xykon for the next player, and that the player using this shtick won't have a shot at defeating Xykon in a second battle on the same turn? (Likewise for Poorly Planned Illusion in any other battle, if Elan happens to choose not to move the top monster.)

    Also, can Roy use Charge when entering an unexplored space, or only when entering a pre-existing empty room?

  2. - Top - End - #362
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by mcnathan80 View Post
    I have a silly rules question.... well two silly rules questions.
    1. What happens when you use PPI on a monster, but there are no adjacent explored rooms (i.e. the first room on the first floor)?
    2. Can you use "scream like a girl" on yourself in battle to assist yourself?
    As I see it:

    1) Very unlikely to happen. But even if it does, I think the card says you may move a monster, not that you must move it. So ,You can decide the monster stays, and you still "won" the battle.

    2) "Scream" says "assist", and you can't assist yourself in battle so no.
    (of course you can use it on another player and choose yourself as the helper)

    Quote Originally Posted by prj
    Also, can Roy use Charge when entering an unexplored space, or only when entering a pre-existing empty room?
    Yes, definitely. As soon as you move explore the room and place a card, it's considered an "empty room", because no monsters were in it.
    I believe there's even an example of this situation in the rulebook, where Roy reveals Xykon and uses Charge to finish the battle before Belkar gets the chance.
    Last edited by SKarious; 2007-06-23 at 06:55 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #363
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    DwarfBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by SKarious View Post
    Very unlikely to happen. But even if it does, I think the card says you may move a monster, not that you must move it. So ,You can decide the monster stays, and you still "won" the battle.
    You can also move monsters up and down stairs, so there will always be at least one previously explored room, either directly adjacent or via a stairway.

  4. - Top - End - #364
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    Daemon

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    Default Timing Issues

    Generally Shticks fall into 2 categories, Battle Shticks, and everything else.

    Some of those are constant passive effects, some are flipping cards that can do things.

    Generally speaking, for those non-battle flipping shticks when can they be used.
    This was partly covered in regards to Durkon's healing (whenever). But Roy's Party Leader and Haley's Secon in Command have been errata-ed to be usable only at the beginning of their turn (balance issues). Is it safe to assume the rest of the shticks are whenever effects?

    Similarly, when can items be discarded. Some get shticks, some unflip shticks, some heal, but I couldn't find anything that said when you could actually discard them.

    Thanks,
    Craig

  5. - Top - End - #365
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Roy's Great Cleavage says it increases his attack/defense for each monster that is defeated and saved on the same turn - is this meant to exclude monsters like the Cowardly Kobold that have no X's, and so aren't saved?

  6. - Top - End - #366
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by prj View Post
    Roy's Great Cleavage says it increases his attack/defense for each monster that is defeated and saved on the same turn - is this meant to exclude monsters like the Cowardly Kobold that have no X's, and so aren't saved?
    Yes, it is meant to exclude these.
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  7. - Top - End - #367
    Pixie in the Playground
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    The other day we ran into a situation: Durkon ended his turn (moved, battled, exchange schticks, etc) but never announced "I am done". Roy immediately played "Internal monologue" on Haley. But Haley argued that Durkon hadn't "officially" ended his turn and that he was actually waiting for Durkon to finish to play "Surprise!". And here is where the argument started. Is it legal for Haley to play "Surprise!" after "Internal monologue" has been played on her??

    -Haley argues that there is a "start of turn phase" and that since Durkon hadn't explicitly said "I am done", she didn't consider her turn started. And that it would be unfair to lose the opportunity to play "surprise!" just because Roy was "faster".
    -Durkon agrees that it was evident that his turn was over so it was already Haley's turn. But he also thinks that it is ok for Haley to play "Surprise!" even when "internal monologue " was played on her.
    -Roy argues that since he played "internal monologue" on Haley, Haley's turn was over and therefore it wouldn't be legal for her to play "Surprise!".

    What would be the right course of action in this case?
    Thank you

  8. - Top - End - #368
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    I think that one is literally as simple as whoever got there first.
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  9. - Top - End - #369
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by mmm View Post
    The other day we ran into a situation: Durkon ended his turn (moved, battled, exchange schticks, etc) but never announced "I am done". Roy immediately played "Internal monologue" on Haley. But Haley argued that Durkon hadn't "officially" ended his turn and that he was actually waiting for Durkon to finish to play "Surprise!". And here is where the argument started. Is it legal for Haley to play "Surprise!" after "Internal monologue" has been played on her??

    -Haley argues that there is a "start of turn phase" and that since Durkon hadn't explicitly said "I am done", she didn't consider her turn started. And that it would be unfair to lose the opportunity to play "surprise!" just because Roy was "faster".
    -Durkon agrees that it was evident that his turn was over so it was already Haley's turn. But he also thinks that it is ok for Haley to play "Surprise!" even when "internal monologue " was played on her.
    -Roy argues that since he played "internal monologue" on Haley, Haley's turn was over and therefore it wouldn't be legal for her to play "Surprise!".

    What would be the right course of action in this case?
    Thank you
    The problem here isn't that it was ambiguous when the beginning of Haley's turn is. Even if Durkon would have announced that his turn was over, then it would have been possible for Roy and Haley to play cards to play cards simultaneously at the start of Haley's turn, which would lead to the same problem.

    In cases where 2 or more Screw This! cards that can be played at the same time (i.e "at the start of a turn") then all effects are resolved, in order, starting with the active player.

    So, Haley's Surprise would go off and then Internal Monologue would take effect.

    If someone plays more than one card, then all of those cards are resolved in the order chosen by the person playing the cards.

    Note that this answer may change depending on the results of consultation with Rich and Craig.
    Owner of APE Games.

  10. - Top - End - #370
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    ElfPirate

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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Roy Cleave Schtick. Can Roy use his Great sword to kill the first monster on the stack and then switch to his magic schtick and still use his cleave schtick to get the bonuses on subsequent monsters in the stack?

  11. - Top - End - #371
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesgrasso View Post
    Roy Cleave Schtick. Can Roy use his Great sword to kill the first monster on the stack and then switch to his magic schtick and still use his cleave schtick to get the bonuses on subsequent monsters in the stack?
    The intent is for Great Cleavage to only be used with Greenhilt Sword. This also means that if Roy somehow manages to defeat a monster with a magic shtick that it wouldn't add to the Great Cleavage bonus.
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  12. - Top - End - #372
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Quote Originally Posted by apegamer View Post
    The intent is for Great Cleavage to only be used with Greenhilt Sword. This also means that if Roy somehow manages to defeat a monster with a magic shtick that it wouldn't add to the Great Cleavage bonus.
    Really? We haven't played it that way... it's just funny to think of Roy cleaving with a badger.

    An unrelated question: If you make a Ranged Attack on another player, and win, do you get to take a Loot from them? (And do they get one of yours if you lose?) The FAQ seems to indicate that you have to be at Range 0, but I can't find anything saying that in the rulebook. They're not really 'dropping' the loot the way a monster would, are they?

  13. - Top - End - #373
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Thumbs up Re: Rules Questions

    To Whom it may concern:

    I have a question and it might be simple to answer but me and my brothers play order of the stick board game and came accross a problem. Last night we were playing and my brother rested and picked up 2 loot cards but one was a trap and he lost to the trap and it said that he lost a turn. Play resumed and it came to his turn to lose a turn but does that mean he is still sleeping or just awake but can't do anything because I wanted to attack but we didn't know if he still got penalized for being asleep. Thank you for the responce.

  14. - Top - End - #374
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    Imp

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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Hmmm. this is really getting into houserule/personal preference for me, but how about this:

    on page 20 of the rulebook, under benefits of resting it says :

    "at the start of your next turn, you are done resting. Stand your Character Move Token back up. Heal 1 Wound and unflip all your flipped shticks"

    he's resting until its his turn starts. if he misses a turn, his turn doesnt start: he's still resting until it comes around again.
    Last edited by irlpotato; 2007-07-16 at 05:43 AM.

  15. - Top - End - #375
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Anyhoo, I'm not sure if it matters, as the rules say you get the -4 for both resting and losing a turn (for ANY reason).

  16. - Top - End - #376
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    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Moebius View Post
    An unrelated question: If you make a Ranged Attack on another player, and win, do you get to take a Loot from them? (And do they get one of yours if you lose?) The FAQ seems to indicate that you have to be at Range 0, but I can't find anything saying that in the rulebook. They're not really 'dropping' the loot the way a monster would, are they?
    On page 25, there's a section "Stealing Equipped Loot from Other Players". This states that you can only do this at range 0.
    Arcade

  17. - Top - End - #377
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Hmm, just as a side note, Belkar's Leaping Attack lets you steal loot, since you finish the attack at range 0.

  18. - Top - End - #378
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcade View Post
    On page 25, there's a section "Stealing Equipped Loot from Other Players". This states that you can only do this at range 0.
    *goes to check*
    Aha! Thanks. I somehow missed that on several readthroughs.

    Speaking of Ranged Attacks.... from the FAQ:

    Q: What happens if I lose a Ranged Attack against a monster with
    Bloodlust and no Range (or insufficient Range to reach the room I’m
    making my Ranged Attack from)?
    A: The battle is a draw. The rules for Ranged Attacks state that a monster
    cannot win a battle for which they have insufficient Range and that
    any result that would lead to a win (in this case, the presence of the
    Bloodlust ability) should be considered a draw instead.

    On page 18 of the rulebook, under Area Effect Shticks:

    Use any and all abilities possessed by the Monsters that affect the entire battle, including Bloodlust, Multiattack, or Outsmart.

    And then, in the example of a (Ranged) Area Effect , V is Fireballing some Snake Dragons (Bloodlust, but Range 0), and a Thing with the Eyes (Range 6).
    (s)He rolls a draw, and apparently the Bloodlust makes it a loss.

    So, one monster's Range makes another monster's Bloodlust work? And, just to clarify, if the Thing hadn't had sufficient Range to reach V, the Bloodlust would not have applied?

  19. - Top - End - #379
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default New Battle Hand - Special Case - When to draw?

    I know that you need to draw a new Battle Hand if it's your turn to add a monster to the Battle Stack and you can't. And I know that in this case, you draw your 7 new cards and are skipped for that one-time monster selection.

    But what happens when you empty your Battle Hand and you don't need to provide a monster? Let's say your Battle Hand only has 2 cards - and they're both Screw This cards. And - either during your turn or during another player's turn - you play both Screw This cards. You have emptied your Battle Hand, but you have not been called on to play a monster.

    What do you do? I see three possible choices for the rules.

    1. If you emptied your Battle Hand during your turn (by playing Screw This cards), then you immediately draw a new Battle Hand (so you can immediately have more Screw This cards). If you emptied your Battle Hand (by playing Screw This cards) on someone else's turn, then you wait until your turn to draw a new Battle Hand. If you need to play a monster before your turn arrives, then you draw your new Battle Hand as usual when you need to provide a monster - and are skipped for that one-time monster selection.
    2. If you emptied your Battle Hand (by playing Screw This cards), it doesn't matter if it's your turn or not. You immediately draw a new Battle Hand (so you can immediately have more Screw This cards, because the game is always funner the more Screw This cards are played ).
    3. If you emptied your Battle Hand (by playing Screw This cards), it doesn't matter if it's your turn or not. You must wait until you are called upon to play a monster before you draw a new Battle Hand (and you're skipped for that one-time monster selection).


    I would think the rules imply choice 3, but they don't spell it out. They do spell out what happens if you can't provide a monster when required (draw a new Battle Hand and be skipped), but they don't speak to drawing or not drawing a new Battle Hand when emptying your hand by playing Screw This cards. (At least, I didn't hear them speak to that point - but my hearing's not the greatest...)

    I would prefer Choice 2 - because it raises the chance of playing more Screw This cards, which I think makes the game funner. Sometimes even funnest.

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  20. - Top - End - #380
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    Per the rules you only draw cards when you should lay down a monster. Therefore you remain cardless until the next time you are called to play a monster (option 3 as you previously said). There are few exceptions to this, for example Durkon has the "W.W.T.D" card that allows him to draw cards from the battle deck, however except for the times that the rules explicitely state you can draw you do not draw from the battle deck.
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  21. - Top - End - #381
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Roy Shtick questions

    Fearless Leader shtick -

    You may not refuse any request from Order of the Stick players for assistance. You may flip this card voluntarily at any time to cancel all of its effects
    So, which sentence has precedence? The "you may not refuse" or the "you may flip ... at any time"? Let's say Belkar asks Roy for assistance in a battle. Roy can not refuse, right? Or can Roy say - nahhh, I'm still ticked off at Belkar for the last two times he double-crossed V (man, Roy can carry a grudge against me - and for something that didn't even involve him!) - so Roy doesn't want to help Belkar, so Roy decides to voluntarily flip his Fearless Leader shtick card now, so that Roy can refuse to assist Belkar. I think Roy is not following the shtick because the shtick says "you may not refuse". Roy thinks it's fine to refuse to help Belkar since Roy can flip his shtick "at any time".

    Does Roy have to assist Belkar? Or can Roy decide to hold a grudge and refuse to help Belkar by flipping his Fearless Leader shtick whenever Belkar asks for assistance?

    Creative Motivation shtick -

    Can you use this shtick multiple times to get multiple assist bonuses from one player in the same battle? From multiple players in the same battle?

    Can you use this shtick to get help from an NPC player? Maybe only if you're discarding loot that only other NPC players and/or yourself drool over?

    Heck - assuming both Belkar and Durkon are playing - can Roy discard loot that Belkar drools over in order for Roy to get assistance from Durkon? It seems wrong for Roy to be able to discard loot that another player drools over (that's why this sort of loot can not be offered to an NPC), but if Roy can't discard loot that other players drool over, then this shtick seems pretty worthless.

    You may discard one card from your Loot Stash ... in order to ask ... for assistance ...
    What if Roy discards one loot card, asks Belkar for help, and Belkar says "Fight your own fight meat shield - you didn't help me - I ain't helping you." Does Roy still lose the one loot Roy discarded? Or does Roy get the loot back because Belkar refused to help? I think Roy loses the loot card even though Belkar refused to assist. The card says Roy discards the loot in order to ask for assistance. The card didn't promise whether the answer would be yes or no when Roy asks.

    Meat Shield shtick

    Whenever you would suffer a Wound as a result of battle, you may flip this card to prevent the Wound. You still suffer any other results, if there are any, ...
    What if the battle would cause Roy to suffer two or more Wounds? Does flipping this shtick only save Roy from one Wound or from all Wounds in that battle? I think it's one Wound since the card talks about "a Wound" and "the Wound". I think the additional Wounds are "other results", but I know I could be wrong (and I may be a bit prejudiced against Roy because he wouldn't help Belkar *and* he had the gall to attack Belkar on the way out of our dungeon when it was collapsing...).
    Last edited by Tremas; 2007-07-19 at 12:50 AM.

  22. - Top - End - #382
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    FEARLESS LEADER: Events happen in the order they are stated so once someone requests roy for help he MUST help them. He can flip it over but he was already asked and therefore can not refuse to help. Now if someone is thinking about asking roy for help and he turns it over before they actually ask then he is safe.

    MEAT SHIELD: It only prevents the one wound. The extra wounds are considered part of the "extra effects". This is true for the other characters' variations on preventing wounds as well.
    Last edited by donkyhotay; 2007-07-19 at 05:13 PM.
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  23. - Top - End - #383
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    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    I dont understand the fireball at all.

    Do you attack each monster in turn? e.g. perform a normal attack vs each of them, that is throwing a dice and see if it beats its defence? So for instance if you can attack 4 monsters, you throw 4 attack dices.

    or do you perform ONE attack vs all of them, e.g. throw the attack dice one time and check vs each of the monsters defence to see if they die.

    And do the monsters defend back, if they have a range > 0 ?


    Another question; The rules dosn't explain what happens to discarded cards, nor what happens when you dont have any more battledeck or loot cards to draw. We have assumed its suffle the discarded piles, and use those.

  24. - Top - End - #384
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    More questions about Area Effect Shticks...

    Can you Defend against multiple monsters with Turn Undead or Poorly-Planned Illusion? The only other AES (so far), Fireball, has N/A for Defense, but those two have a value. Turn Undead is actually better in Defense than Attack.

    Also, I know you can't keep fighting after you use an AES, even at Range 0. But can you use 'regular' shticks to kill the top monster(s) in a stack, one at a time, and then 'finish off' the stack with an AES?

  25. - Top - End - #385
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Since PPI (poorly planned illusion) and turn undead have defense stats they can be used to defend with. Fireball on the other hand can not be used defensively. I personally don't like the rules on AoE spells but here is what the rules say. When you use an AoE spell you first determine which monsters will be hit with it by finding how many monsters can be hit by it and then counting down from the top of the deck. Monsters immune to the attack (such as being enchanted) are still technically targeted this way. Find the monster with the highest defense value (if your attacking) or highest attack value (if your defending) and roll against this monster. If you win then it and all other targeted monsters are affected (unless immune at which point nothing happens). If you lose against the strongest monster then you lose entirely and the AoE does nothing (even if that roll theoretically would have killed something else). Per the rules once an AoE shtick has been used you may not battle additional monsters. There is nothing preventing you from battling some monsters first before using the AoE. This actually is a good way to use elan in a large battle. Kill a monster or two, use PPI to clear the others out of the room and then pick up the loot the first monsters dropped. Even though the monsters don't die, using PPI counts as "clearing the room" so you get to pick up two loot (this use of PPI is mentioned in the FAQ).
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9675
    If an AoE schtick fails and a monster has sufficient range to hit the person that used the AoE then yes they do "counterattack" and that person loses 1 wound per targeted monster with sufficient range. If the player is out of range or hits the monsters successfully this is irrelevant.
    Last edited by donkyhotay; 2007-07-21 at 09:46 PM.
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  26. - Top - End - #386
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by donkyhotay View Post
    If an AoE schtick fails and a monster has sufficient range to hit the person that used the AoE then yes they do "counterattack" and that person loses 1 wound per targeted monster with sufficient range. If the player is out of range or hits the monsters successfully this is irrelevant.
    I don't believe this is correct. My understanding is that you only take damage if at least one target has range to hit you, and then if they have other effects then they apply. You then just take one wound unless there is a deadly effect involved.

    Of course, that begs the question about what happens if one of the targets you attack from range has hide... Do all the monsters then hide even if another one with range normally doesn't?

    Hope the expansion helps clear up this nonsense. :p

  27. - Top - End - #387
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    Thank you for correcting me Thelis, I was partially wrong. If a monster has sufficient range to reach you only take 1 wound, not 1 wound per monster (this is stated specifically in the rules). However, all monsters with special abilities (such as deadly, spellcaster, thief) that have sufficient range apply those. So you CAN take more then 1 wound but only if the monsters have the deadly ability. Rules also state that these stack so for example if you fight 2 monsters, both with sufficient range and both having deadly you would take 3 wounds. 1 for normally losing, and then 1 for each 'deadly' ability the monsters have. Likewise it is possible to be double-paralyzed and miss multiple turns as well.
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  28. - Top - End - #388
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Rules Questions

    I have one extremely basic question, and it's one I can't for the life of me find in the rules (I may have flipped through the book too many times so everything's become hazy...)

    I enter a room, and a fight starts. The monster attacks...
    now there's 3 options:
    1. I defend successfully, defeat the monster, and can choose whether to fight the next one.
    2. it's a draw.
    3. I lose, and can't do anything else.

    The question on everyone's minds (at least those of my friends and me) is, in which circumstances (if ever) can I just walk out of that room? (This one's really important to us, as we've often found ourselves fighting unbeatable monsters)
    If I win, can I move past that room into the next unexplored one, or back into a previously explored one?
    If I draw, can I withdraw, or do I have to fight the monster again?
    If I lose, what happens next? Can I retreat? Flee?

    next question: In yesterday's game, the first room we entered on the 3rd floor was "employee exit", which immediately opens a new room, and as we played the shortest game, that was Xykon's floor. What happens if a player gets defeated down there? How does he get out, if he can't flee through the exit?

  29. - Top - End - #389
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mravac Kid View Post
    I have one extremely basic question, and it's one I can't for the life of me find in the rules (I may have flipped through the book too many times so everything's become hazy...)

    I enter a room, and a fight starts. The monster attacks...
    now there's 3 options:
    1. I defend successfully, defeat the monster, and can choose whether to fight the next one.
    2. it's a draw.
    3. I lose, and can't do anything else.

    The question on everyone's minds (at least those of my friends and me) is, in which circumstances (if ever) can I just walk out of that room? (This one's really important to us, as we've often found ourselves fighting unbeatable monsters)
    If I win, can I move past that room into the next unexplored one, or back into a previously explored one?
    If I draw, can I withdraw, or do I have to fight the monster again?
    If I lose, what happens next? Can I retreat? Flee?

    next question: In yesterday's game, the first room we entered on the 3rd floor was "employee exit", which immediately opens a new room, and as we played the shortest game, that was Xykon's floor. What happens if a player gets defeated down there? How does he get out, if he can't flee through the exit?
    I'll help you there:
    Monsters only appear when you open a new unexplored room, or when you stop in an empty room. (room without other monsters and/or players. loot is allowed).
    In both cases, your movement ends for this turn. You can't move after defending/attacking.

    During your movement, you can pass rooms with monsters and you don't have to fight them. (unless someone plays "failed spot check" on you, then you stop and fight). When you open a new room, you have to stop and fight.

    About "emergency exit" - you can use it to escape while the dungeon is collapsing, check the FAQ here.
    But this room could never be in Xykon's lair: even on the shortest game the lair is on level 4, and the lair is made up from those special nifty black "Xykon's Lair" cards. (Check the "game setup" and "endgame" sections on how to prepare the lair).

    Hope that helped.

  30. - Top - End - #390
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2007

    Default Re: Rules Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by SKarious View Post
    I'll help you there:
    Monsters only appear when you open a new unexplored room, or when you stop in an empty room. (room without other monsters and/or players. loot is allowed).
    In both cases, your movement ends for this turn. You can't move after defending/attacking.

    During your movement, you can pass rooms with monsters and you don't have to fight them. (unless someone plays "failed spot check" on you, then you stop and fight). When you open a new room, you have to stop and fight.
    I know that, but what about when I'm already in a fight? Example: I'm on the second floor, fighting a Black Dragon and a Goblin. The Dragon kicks my butt, thanks to his attack I can't even approach, and my turn ends. On the next turn, do I have to fight the Dragon again (only to get my butt kicked again, and so on until I get killed and have to run back to the entrance), or can I move away and leave the two in the room?

    About "emergency exit" - you can use it to escape while the dungeon is collapsing, check the FAQ here.
    But this room could never be in Xykon's lair: even on the shortest game the lair is on level 4, and the lair is made up from those special nifty black "Xykon's Lair" cards. (Check the "game setup" and "endgame" sections on how to prepare the lair).

    Hope that helped.
    I misspoke in that sentence. Actually, the "employee exit" turned up on the 3rd floor, and the description says it has a ladder going down (which would mean to Xykon's floor). So how does that work?
    And while we're at it: there can be only one found staircase, and there's the "employee exit", and I read in this thread there's another card giving a staircase. So there can be 3 staircases on the same floor? What happens if it's the last floor before Xykon?

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