Relationship Woes and Advice, The Bridge Across Forever

[Xartyve2]

Originally Posted by Mr. Mud

Explain to him, that you can't be his only friend. In other words, find a group where he feels at home at, and dump encourage him to make friends with them.

I do have a group. They're as worried as I am, and whenever I try to disperse friendship amongst all of us it doesn't work and he always seems intent on having me as my only friend.

He hangs out near all the spots I like to go just to talk to me! I'm like a cat burglar creeping around the school, but he can smell me or something because no matter where I hide I always hear that clip clop of his shoes which signals the oncoming awkward conversation.

[xPANCAKEx]

Originally Posted by Xartyve2

I do have a group. They're as worried as I am, and whenever I try to disperse friendship amongst all of us it doesn't work and he always seems intent on having me as my only friend.

He hangs out near all the spots I like to go just to talk to me! I'm like a cat burglar creeping around the school, but he can smell me or something because no matter where I hide I always hear that clip clop of his shoes which signals the oncoming awkward conversation.

just tell him you find him over bearing as a friend - everyone needs their personal space somtimes. If he bawls again, then man-up and let him bawl. He needs to learn

[Xartyve2]

Originally Posted by xPANCAKEx

just tell him you find him over bearing as a friend - everyone needs their personal space somtimes. If he bawls again, then man-up and let him bawl. He needs to learn

Okay I'll give it another shot... but sheesh those tears (and mucus) are like car headlights.

And I'm the terrified racoon on the road...

[xPANCAKEx]

Originally Posted by Xartyve2

Okay I'll give it another shot... but sheesh those tears (and mucus) are like car headlights.

And I'm the terrified racoon on the road...

might be wise to do it more privately next time then

[Xartyve2]

Oh don't worry.

I did it in a crowd the first time because I didn't know what to expect and hoped he would restrain himself for fear of embaressment.

[zeratul]

Originally Posted by Pyrian

Her dishonesty was tact, Dracomorph. If I had a nickel for every time a gal told a guy that she didn't want to date right now when she meant that she didn't want to date him, I could buy a mansion. In La Jolla. With nickels. If I had a dime for every time a guy who doesn't know how to take that sort of hint comes across as "excessively clingy" to the object of his affections, I could afford the property tax on said mansion.

I think this would fall under the category of a lie people think is a white lie but is in fact not. Based on my experiences, being told the person "just isn't interested in dating right now" is not a good thing to tell someone because if people take it literally it causes them to not necessarily get over that person and believe the might have a chance with them in the future when in fact he does not. This is as opposed to telling the person the truth and causing a clean break, which is in my opinion a better choice, and less likely to mess with anyone's head.

[Serpentine]

My suggestion (on the obsessed kid): First, look into counselling (preferably free, preferably good quality) available to you (plural). Then, sit him down - in private! - and talk to him about his behaviour, and how uncomforable it's making you. Keep in mind that that will be horribly embarassing, possibly even humiliating. I don't know what you could actually do to mitigate it, but at least keep it in mind. Then talk to him about getting counselling for the issues that his obsession obviously indicates - bring up the aforementioned research into the options available. You're obviously a decent person and genuinely want to help him. In this case, helping him will help you! ...hopefully. He (and you?) just needs to know that you can't be his only support.

Few random notes on the previous argument: There is a difference between having a right to do something and something being right to do. I think few people would argue that, rules as written so to speak, guy-friend has no right to date girl. Whether it would be right (or wrong) for him to do so is another matter. At the very least, even taking mf's feelings out of the equation, it doesn't seem very wise...
On the matter of "not interested in dating right now", it is also possible for people to be wrong or to change their mind. She (or he?) may very well not be interested in "dating right now". Then someone else comes along and causes her (him?) to suddenly become interested... It's not fair, but it's not them being evil or manipulative or a liar, either.

[skywalker]

Originally Posted by Mr. Mud

Explain to him, that you can't be his only friend. In other words, find a group where he feels at home at, and dump encourage him to make friends with them.

And a little more tactfully than "I've taught you all I can and it's time I cut you off," unless you didn't mean that literally.

Originally Posted by Serpentine

My suggestion (on the obsessed kid): First, look into counselling (preferably free, preferably good quality) available to you (plural). Then, sit him down - in private! - and talk to him about his behaviour, and how uncomforable it's making you. Keep in mind that that will be horribly embarassing, possibly even humiliating. I don't know what you could actually do to mitigate it, but at least keep it in mind. Then talk to him about getting counselling for the issues that his obsession obviously indicates - bring up the aforementioned research into the options available. You're obviously a decent person and genuinely want to help him. In this case, helping him will help you! ...hopefully. He (and you?) just needs to know that you can't be his only support.

Yes, the kid sounds as tho he needs some help.

Few random notes on the previous argument: There is a difference between having a right to do something and something being right to do. I think few people would argue that, rules as written so to speak, guy-friend has no right to date girl. Whether it would be right (or wrong) for him to do so is another matter. At the very least, even taking mf's feelings out of the equation, it doesn't seem very wise...
On the matter of "not interested in dating right now", it is also possible for people to be wrong or to change their mind. She (or he?) may very well not be interested in "dating right now". Then someone else comes along and causes her (him?) to suddenly become interested... It's not fair, but it's not them being evil or manipulative or a liar, either.

It merely seems strange that she would come to his friend, professing love (if that is also a literal usage), and claiming that he is "extremely clingy." As you said, I think everyone agreed that while it might be a kinda jerk move to date her, it wouldn't be that bad. But it is kinda bad that she would make assertions about mf11's clingyness, and mf11's friend would seem to accept it (because while he doesn't have to believe her... Why would he date her if he didn't find her truthful?). High school is also not one of those places where "Dude, I'm your best friend, but you were being clingy," is a conversation that can happen.

[arguskos]

Um. Yeah. I have a worry. Would someone be so kind as to PM me, if they might be able to shed some light on a trouble I'm having?

Thanks.

[Naoto Shirogane]

...I need a way of getting a straight answer out of someone, seeing as asking them directly resulted in an "I don't know."


That, and I was wondering, girl I like has been talking to me on MSN basically every night for over a month now. We haven't ever called each other on the phone despite having each others numbers.

It's her b'day tomorrow, and I want to try and take her out for lunch (we still haven't met either) Is there someway I can make her comfortable enough with either of these 2 things that she might actually take a chance and try something apart from MSN with me?

[Serpentine]

Depends on the question.


One possibility (though its effaciousness is by no means assured) is to call her on her birthday, for her birthday, and then (after some chatting) see if she would be okay with you taking her for a birthday luncheon (or whatever).

[Naoto Shirogane]

The only problem with calling her is A) We've never called each other before, and she really doesn't like talking on the phone and B) She's still nervous about meeting me after all this time.

So I'm unsure if I should continue being patient, or if I should try to push her a little bit.

EDIT: The question I asked was how she feels about me.

[Wizard of the Coat]

Originally Posted by Naoto Shirogane

The only problem with calling her is A) We've never called each other before, and she really doesn't like talking on the phone and B) She's still nervous about meeting me after all this time.

So I'm unsure if I should continue being patient, or if I should try to push her a little bit.

EDIT: The question I asked was how she feels about me.

I can immagine the problem, but considering it has been a while it probably will only get more awkward if you wait longer. The advantage of a birthday call is that you can disguise it with ease under the term that you're giving her the gift of hearing your voice and the luncheon can then be the gift of sight. I'd recon that even if she's a little nervous about either of this, that if she likes you back she'll take a chance and appreciate it.

[xPANCAKEx]

Naoto Shirogane

dear lord you're a glutton for punishment

you don't need her permission to call - just do it. If she doesn't answer, leave a message, then leave the ball FIRMLY in her court.

you keep chasing after this one and so far everything seems completely on her terms

[Naoto Shirogane]

Originally Posted by xPANCAKEx

Naoto Shirogane

dear lord you're a glutton for punishment

you don't need her permission to call - just do it. If she doesn't answer, leave a message, then leave the ball FIRMLY in her court.

you keep chasing after this one and so far everything seems completely on her terms

Yes, Naoto is a glutton for punishment, because Naoto is a stubborn, honourable Taurus, who promised this girl that he'd stick by her.

I'm just starting to get a little tired or all the indecision, and figure its time for a little push. I also want the satsifaction of seeing her get rid of her manipulative bastard of an ex, but thats just something that will happen in time.

[xPANCAKEx]

you may be "sticking by her", but it sounds like shes taking you for granted... and from everything you've said thats not going to change

theres being loyal and then theres being stupid.

As for her ex - unless you know both sides of the story, things are always going to be coloured so she may not be so innocent in it all. Besides - a grown woman who keeps going back to a guy who mucks her about is a mug. A very undesirable quality.

maybe you need to push yourself and ask why you're still hanging on hope for a woman you've never met, and only been speaking to online for a few months, when you could be out there meeting other new people and having fun with them instead... besides. If she hears of all the good times shes missed out on, she might give herself the kick she needs

[Naoto Shirogane]

first, its been a month. Second, now that the phone call has been a success, I'm going to try and push a bit more.

Third, she's not innocent with her ex. She still has feelings for him and she lets him use her. I'm not the only one telling her to get rid of him, either.

besides, she's my friend. Treat people how you want to be treated - thats working in this case. I'm just being inactive when I should be proactive. Ergo, if I want something, I have to push for it.

[Dracomorph]

Originally Posted by Naoto Shirogane

Yes, Naoto is a glutton for punishment, because Naoto is a stubborn, honourable Taurus, who promised this girl that he'd stick by her.

Look, I get the 'stick by your friends' mentality. You won't believe it after this post, but it's true. But friends are supposed to give something back other than ludicrous runarounds and huge amounts of emotional pain.

Maybe there's more to your friendship with this girl than I've picked up from your posts. But if you've known her for several months, you live pretty close to her, and she hasn't taken time out to meet you in person, you should be picking up some signs that you're not going to be friends in the same way you want to be.

It doesn't sound like she respects you, which is the basis of friendship, and an time I have a friendship without mutual respect, I have learned to head for the hills, promises or no.

...But you know what? I'm perfectly comfortable with you ignoring that advice. It's good advice, and it's the best idea I can come up with, but maybe you're more stubborn and honorable than me. In the end, you have to do what you think is right, because the one who will have to live with it is you. Just don't become this guy.

[Quincunx]

Originally Posted by Naoto Shirogane

...I need a way of getting a straight answer out of someone, seeing as asking them directly resulted in an "I don't know."

Sounds like you got your answer.

[Dragonrider]

Originally Posted by Dracomorph

...But you know what? I'm perfectly comfortable with you ignoring that advice. It's good advice, and it's the best idea I can come up with, but maybe you're more stubborn and honorable than me. In the end, you have to do what you think is right, because the one who will have to live with it is you. Just don't become this guy.

I remain convinced that Randall Munroe wrote that after reading this thread.

[Quincunx]

The comments for that comic are by turns depressing and hilarious. It should be added to our initial post as Rule #5: Don't Be That Guy. This Also Applies to Gals. (with comic link).

[Cobra_Ikari]

...huh. I know a couple of Those Guys. Never met a That Girl, though.

[Syka]

I'll add that as rule 5 if I make the next thread.

But yeah, don't be that guy. I've been pursued by a That Guy and it's aggravating. Very much so.

[AtomicKitKat]

Whew. With the help of mutual acquaintances, I am now free of any feelings of obligation to the girl, and hopefully, I have managed to put myself out of "That Guy"-hood for this particular friendship. Now, to keep my senses open for she who will fulfill at least 80% of the singles ad I have saved for myself on my phone.

[Quincunx]

Celebrations!

Kinda curious about the singles ad you're saving for yourself though. Is that sort of a mental checklist ("Note to self: Crazy self-destructive chick = Do Not Touch, Do Not Fix") or what? I just don't understand an ad that isn't publicized.

[xPANCAKEx]

AtomicKitKat

good to hear - hope things brighten up for you asap

Originally Posted by Naoto Shirogane

first, its been a month. Second, now that the phone call has been a success, I'm going to try and push a bit more.

Third, she's not innocent with her ex. She still has feelings for him and she lets him use her. I'm not the only one telling her to get rid of him, either.

besides, she's my friend. Treat people how you want to be treated - thats working in this case. I'm just being inactive when I should be proactive. Ergo, if I want something, I have to push for it.

there are so many things wrong with this i wasn't sure where to begin... but for the sake of each i shall do them in running order:

a month? - not sure if thats good or bad. Shes given you the run around this long and you seem to have invested a LOT of yourself in such a short space of time. As people have pointed out, from what you've said, what ARE you gaining from this friendship, apart from satisfying a promise you extended without invitation?

not innocent? - not clever either. As Quincunx put it - shes self destructive. For a woman you're romantically persuing (and lets be honest about this - the friendship your maintain IS a pre-text to romance), you should have to start out by 'fixing' her/helping her through what ever mess she is in. Thats not ever going to be a healthy way to start a relationship.

the ex? - stop playing 'shoulder to lean on' about it. She shouldn't be asking a guy she knows is interested for advice, nor should you really be trying to advise her on it. BUT... as im sure you'll ignore this point out of your sense of 'loyalty' i'll give you another piece of advice. Stop trying to 'tell' her what to do. The only way she'll ever get over him is if she realise and accepts for herself that he is bad news and CHOOSES to move on.... man... maybe we should have tried the same tac with you ;p

pushing for it? - you've tried... and it hasn't worked. She gave you her answer, and i doubt she'll have some revelation and come running anytime soon. If the direct approach hasn't worked, then nothing will. Sorry.

Cobra_Ikari

I have a few of 'Those Gals' in my flock of admirers... its painful. Some of them keep coming back despite being turned down (2 or 3 times in some instances). Its painful at best, but i do get some 'hilarious anecdotes' out of it.

DEFINATELY pro rule 5

[Cobra_Ikari]

Originally Posted by Quincunx

Celebrations!

Kinda curious about the singles ad you're saving for yourself though. Is that sort of a mental checklist ("Note to self: Crazy self-destructive chick = Do Not Touch, Do Not Fix") or what? I just don't understand an ad that isn't publicized.

...*writes down in Notebook of Things Cobra Should Not Have Learned The Hard Way*...

...most everything else in that involves fire, power tools, or both. >.<

Originally Posted by xPANCAKEx

Cobra_Ikari

I have a few of 'Those Gals' in my flock of admirers... its painful. Some of them keep coming back despite being turned down (2 or 3 times in some instances). Its painful at best, but i do get some 'hilarious anecdotes' out of it.

DEFINATELY pro rule 5

Huh. I don't think I've ever turned down an admirer before. I don't have flocks of them like you do. =P

...

...aaaaand...now I'm paranoid that people have dated me because I'm a good friend and they were settling. >.<

[AtomicKitKat]

Originally Posted by Quincunx

Celebrations!

Kinda curious about the singles ad you're saving for yourself though. Is that sort of a mental checklist ("Note to self: Crazy self-destructive chick = Do Not Touch, Do Not Fix") or what? I just don't understand an ad that isn't publicized.

Bearing in mind that the following is just a sample of what's in there and is by no means exhaustive.

Well, it started off physical(Height range, Weight range, BMI, complexion), then added skills(Have 2 of: Cooking, Sewing, Home DIY; gymnastics/acrobatics/parkour/swimming a bonus), likes(Children, talking about anything), dislikes(loud noises, excess spice, bad grammar), education(Minimum grade 10, but flexible, if she likes to read and/or further her knowledge), lack of fear for(rats, spiders, snakes, heights), finances(neither resent nor use pay difference to bully. Able to pay her own minor bills, but I'm willing to foot the bill for any meals we have. Bonus if we are equally capable of minor gifts for one another.). There's more, but I did consider putting it up on a personal website just to see what sort of responses I'd get.

Re: The girl in question. She's not really self-destructive, but the fact that her boyfriend has apparently already been told about me and has not shown up after 4 months of me pursuing her makes me respect him enough to let go completely(along with a personal revelation that was not obvious to me until the day after we got this whole thing fixed). Not that I didn't respect her before, mind, but coupled with respecting that he's a pretty stand-up guy(for trusting her to handle me without ever needing to step in), it definitely helped. I was even able to tell her he was lucky to have a girlfriend as loyal as her, apologise for any discomfort I've caused, and promise not to bother her.

[xPANCAKEx]

Originally Posted by Cobra_Ikari

Huh. I don't think I've ever turned down an admirer before. I don't have flocks of them like you do. =P

...

...aaaaand...now I'm paranoid that people have dated me because I'm a good friend and they were settling. >.<

Everyone has a fan club - sometimes they're just not aware of it

and don't worry about the past relationships. As long as you enjoyed yourself then its fine. As for future relationships (and it does happen a LOT more as people get older - oddly i seem to be getting more picky as i get older, what a rebel!), never settle...

its better to be single and lonely, rather than with someone and resenting it

[Dallas-Dakota]

Heck, I have a fanclub.

Hell, even my hair has a fanclub.

Yet admirers? No, don't think so.