Cthulhu: Ancient alien eldritch horror from beyond the depths of time and space.
Melkor (AKA Morgoth): God of evil, older than the world in which he dwells, capable of limitless evil and cruelty.
Two ancient terrors beyond the human comprehension, able to petrify their foes with raw fear, and dominate the minds of mere mortals with their sheer strength of will.
So suppose Cthulhu crashes down onto Arda rather than Earth as we know it? He comes down somewhere in the North, and naturally gains the attention of Morgoth, who does not look too kindly on a new rival. This is Morgoth before he diffused his power into creating orcs and trolls and all those foul things, so he's still an immensely powerful Valar. Who wins in this clash of otherworldly abominations?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilElitest
Quote:
Executor - for a Vs. thread, you have laid out the case for this confrontation very intelligently - bravo!
he is like the demigod of vs. threads
They can take our lives... but they'll never take our AWESOME!!!
Awarded EvilElitest the Trophy for winning the internet.
Alumnus of the Sauron vs Voldemort thread <ASVSVA>
Last edited by Executor : 11-04-2009 at 04:18 PM.
Reason: For a better VS match
I think we should just have a list of beings that can defeat Cthulhu instead.
So far all I've got are creatures that can actually fight Cthulhu;
- Other Great Old Ones
- Eva Units
- Godzilla and most other Toho dai-kaiju
- Teddy Roosevelt
Aaand that's about it. He's supposed to be the strongest of the Great Old Ones (although I imagine all Great Old Ones tell their worshippers that), the god of war and destruction (according to the Necronomicon), and the Hight Priest of Azathoth. Although I suppose an -actual- Outer God could take him.
__________________
Spoiler
Avatars by kpenguin.
According to this test, I am a LN Half-Orc Cleric, Lvl.2.
"And he said, 'Dance before us, atrocious nothing.'"
"And in the layer of the Deep Ones, we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever." - H.P. Lovecraft.
Ungoliant came across as something of a Cthulhuish creature- and she beat Morgoth. On the other hand, she was also driven off by a pack of balrogs.
The Star-spawn of Cthulhu weren't able to beat the Elder Things of Antarctica- who have a long career of creating/manipulating life forms, as exemplified by their creations, the Shoggoths.
Though I'm not sure how much more powerful Cthulhu is, than his spawn.
It is possible that Sauron, might also be very powerful, at the height of his power.
First off, Sauron isn't nearly as powerful as you make him out to be. Your description applies far better to Morgoth. Sauron vs. Cthulhu is ridiculously lopsided against Sauron.
Morgoth, who is supposed to be an unkillable being from the dawn of time...yeah, that's a fairer match. Except that he got taken down by a singing elven maiden.
__________________
Shiny avatar by Dispozition.
Spoiler
Banner by bayar
"This is the captain. We may experience some slight turbulence and then...explode."
~Mal Reynolds, Serenity
Something to keep in perspective here: the entire Middle-earth univermultigalazyversewhateverthehell is completely different from the Cthulu Mythos's.
Putting Cthulu in a universe where things like him don't exist, Azathoth is just a word, there are no slumbering squamous horrors in the sea, and beholding the true face of the cosmos inspires awe and wonder rather than instant madness and despair should automatically change everything about him. It'd be like an orang-utan in a British Columbian rainforest, or a polar bear at the south pole. Or rather, because those examples imply deliberately PLACING something where it shouldn't be (and subtly hinting that it's going to die out there, which isn't my point) imagine a desert with a permanent population of orang-utans that live according to their natural, original ecological behaviour.
It just doesn't work. You need Lovecraft's "ecology" for something like Cthulu to act like Cthulu, and the world of LotR isn't anything like it. His universe has the creator be a blind, mindless, gibbering thing. Tolkien's was sung into being by a heavenly choir.
So far all I've got are creatures that can actually fight Cthulhu;
- Other Great Old Ones
- Eva Units
- Godzilla and most other Toho dai-kaiju
- Teddy Roosevelt
Aaand that's about it. He's supposed to be the strongest of the Great Old Ones (although I imagine all Great Old Ones tell their worshippers that), the god of war and destruction (according to the Necronomicon), and the Hight Priest of Azathoth. Although I suppose an -actual- Outer God could take him.
While I agree that the other Great Old Ones could take Cthulhu down... I don't think the others could. Maybe Eva 01 at the end of EoE... It is technically a God at that point.
My opinion? Choughinga Gurren Lagann or Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann could take Mr. Squid Head without much of a fight. Sure, he can try to drive them to insanity, but SIMON'S DRILL WILL STILL PIERCE THE HEAVENS!
(Sorry, had too )
Back on topic, however...
This really is a one sided fight. Sure, Sauron can have continents dropped on his head; but Cthulhu is a true God, where as Sauron is really only a Demi-God level being. Morgoth is a much better match up in this situation, but I'm pretty sure even he would get stomped.
Sauron is less powerful than his boss. I forget who his boss is.
His boss fought an elf or a man or some kinda finnish dude named for golf to a standstill.
That's right, his boss couldn't beat a finnish manelf named for golf.
Cthulu is not supposed to be counterable with anything man can do.
Cthulu was defeated by a steamboat. Temporarily, granted, but if he doesn't have the dexterity or strength to stop a small ship from driving through his face, I doubt he can reliably hit an elven war hero with centuries of combat experience and heroic willpower who's prancing around and stabbing him in the ankles.
With that said, Sauron's a somewhat easier target, given that he's kinda mediocre at direct combat and focuses on manipulating people. His first instinct on learning of Cthulu would probably be to find a way to bring him under his control. This would be futile, of course, what with Big C's alien cognition, but he'd try it. Then he'd just raise a big army with various elite warriors to help him kill Cthulu.
An army probably wouldn't work very well against Cthulu. Granted, an organized, prepared, and well-lead force would fare better than a terrified steamship crew, but the maddening gaze and grabbing tentacles and hugeness wouldn't be good for morale. And orcs aren't exactly known for being steadfast and reliable soldiers.
However, Sauron has access to things that can do more than just fire a few arrows at Cthulu and then run gibbering in terror. Balrogs, for example. Dragons, for another. Cthulu's extremely tough of course, but I don't think any aquatic organism will do very well when engulfed in flames.
I'm not saying Sauron will win; without help, he probably won't. But I think this is a lot closer than people are making it out to be.
__________________
Sometimes, the Greater Good requires that you hug kittens. Sometimes it requires that you eat them. Who am I to disobey its dictates?
However, Sauron has access to things that can do more than just fire a few arrows at Cthulu and then run gibbering in terror. Balrogs, for example. Dragons, for another. Cthulu's extremely tough of course, but I don't think any aquatic organism will do very well when engulfed in flames.
nitpick
fairly certain that Morgoth had access to dragons and balrogs.
Sauron had fell beasts and ringwraiths, essentially the cheap knock-offs.
So far all I've got are creatures that can actually fight Cthulhu;
- Other Great Old Ones
- Eva Units
- Godzilla and most other Toho dai-kaiju
- Teddy Roosevelt
Aaand that's about it. He's supposed to be the strongest of the Great Old Ones (although I imagine all Great Old Ones tell their worshippers that), the god of war and destruction (according to the Necronomicon), and the Hight Priest of Azathoth. Although I suppose an -actual- Outer God could take him.
That's it?
A few more, right off the top of my head:
Squirrel Girl
Granny Weatherwax
DEATH
X-Com (with insane losses)
Ghostbusters
And from what I heard, in the original Lovecraft he was "just" high priest of the great old ones. Not something to sneeze at, sure, but not the top spot.
__________________
Remember how I was wishing for the peace of oblivion a minute ago?
So far all I've got are creatures that can actually fight Cthulhu;
- Other Great Old Ones
- Eva Units
- Godzilla and most other Toho dai-kaiju
- Teddy Roosevelt
Aaand that's about it. He's supposed to be the strongest of the Great Old Ones (although I imagine all Great Old Ones tell their worshippers that), the god of war and destruction (according to the Necronomicon), and the Hight Priest of Azathoth. Although I suppose an -actual- Outer God could take him.
I can add a dozen more easily.
Cthulhu isn't really anywhere near the top of the mythos. His main advntage is that the standard human mind goes "wait, WHAT" on seeing him - he's a priest, not a fighter. The infamous steamboat episode, as mentioned, shows that he isn't exactly... quick on the uptake .
With that in mind... anything at the top level of the Nasuverse (starting with biggest Dead Apostles, passing Archetype: Earth AKA Arcueid and ending on TYPEs and ORT) could own Cthulhu. Zelretch himself is pretty much Nyarlathothep but a lot more personable .
TTGL, as mentioned before, wouldn't find it even much of a fight, and same goes for most Super Robot shows. It's been proven mindbreaking powers do not work easily on brains powered by blood at a hundred degrees celsius.
Also, I'm betting Rincewind could do it if you give him half a brick in a sock .
__________________
There is no God but Haruhi, and Kyon is Her prophet.
plenty of things can kill Cthulhu in the Mythos as well, it's just they can't appear as anything more substantive as a zen parable without making the planet go "SQUISH"
in the topic,, does Melkor get his armies? more importantly, are the stars right?
if so, Big C does his end-of-the-world dance, as the big boys of the Mythos (above-mentioned world "SQUISH"ers) come to play.
if not, he goes to sleep until the answer is yes.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schlock mercenary
Stop pretending to be the voice of the people. You are merely load, and holding a microphone
Squirrel Girl
Granny Weatherwax
DEATH
X-Com (with insane losses)
Ghostbusters
And from what I heard, in the original Lovecraft he was "just" high priest of the great old ones. Not something to sneeze at, sure, but not the top spot.
A properly-prepared 21st-level Wizard (3.5E, natch) should have no problem with Cthulhu, or anything else that the Lovecraftiverse can throw at 'em.
In a fair fight between Morgoth & Cthulhu, my money's on the former Valar. He's second only to Eru Iluvatar Himself in terms of power in his respective universe, & Cthulhu just a servant of much more powerful forces.
Cthulhu basically owns anything with a human mind. Someone like Melkor though... I bet Melkor would be fine.
Cthulhu wasn't beaten by the steam-boat. From the best of my understanding, the stars were never right to begin with. All the steam-boat did was put him back to sleep, that's all. At least, that's how I understood it.
Now, if it's Cthulhu VS Melkor... I would bet on Cthulhu. However, I don't really see Melkor fighting the Cthulhu alone. I mean, why should he? He has a freaking army! So I'm betting on Melkor.
But yeah, Cthulhu is really over-rated power whys. He's not THAT god like. He's just... impossible for humans to comprehend, I guess.
So far all I've got are creatures that can actually fight Cthulhu;
- Other Great Old Ones
- Eva Units
- Godzilla and most other Toho dai-kaiju
- Teddy Roosevelt
Aaand that's about it. He's supposed to be the strongest of the Great Old Ones (although I imagine all Great Old Ones tell their worshippers that), the god of war and destruction (according to the Necronomicon), and the Hight Priest of Azathoth. Although I suppose an -actual- Outer God could take him.
And Cthulhu could withstand Nuclear explosions none the worse for wear. Before atom bombs were actually invented.
He could perhaps even fight Winston Churchill (If the stars were right and Winston had been hitting the bottle very hard beforehand and wasn't feeling his best, and had just single-handedly beaten the Nazi's so was a bit tired, and didn't have his cigar and tophat of total badassitude, and tommy-gun of Chicago gangsterness).
However, I have to bet on Melkor. He was theoretically powerful enough to rip the world apart (as in break chunks of it the size of the moon).
Cthulhu is very much an immovable object, but Melkor, at total power, was unstoppable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matar
Now, if it's Cthulhu VS Melkor... I would bet on Cthulhu. However, I don't really see Melkor fighting the Cthulhu alone. I mean, why should he? He has a freaking army! So I'm betting on Melkor.
But yeah, Cthulhu is really over-rated power whys. He's not THAT god like. He's just... impossible for humans to comprehend, I guess.
Without the army he was powerful enough to do that favorite quote of mine. Even with the stars being right my my money remains firmly on Tolkien's evil badass over Lovecraft's.
__________________
Rip Van Winkle Avatar by Ninja Chocobo, whose warhead shall punish all without distinction.
Last edited by Cracklord : 11-04-2009 at 09:14 PM.
Well, when Churchill briefly took over Chicago during his second term as prime minister, he took the legendary Tommy Gun of gangsterness as a sign of total victory.
He then used it at parties to insult ugly women.
__________________
Remember how I was wishing for the peace of oblivion a minute ago?
Death arrived on a motorbike in a leather jacket, and killed the music.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiasaur11
Well, when Churchill briefly took over Chicago during his second term as prime minister, he took the legendary Tommy Gun of gangsterness as a sign of total victory.
He then used it at parties to insult ugly women.
He, in fact, pried it from Al Capone's cold, dead hands.
The only reason he wasn't re-elected was because he had fulfilled England's badass leader quota, and any more time running things would have destroyed civilization.
__________________
Rip Van Winkle Avatar by Ninja Chocobo, whose warhead shall punish all without distinction.
RSS Feeds: 
Cthulhu vs Melkor (AKA Morgoth)
<ASVSVA> 
), Cthulu would pwn Sauron.
)
