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2019-09-19, 07:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII
SpoilerDoesn't sound likely. If the great Evil imprisoned in Belierin is a Fallen, that implies that it is a fallen celestial or at least not a fiend. Also I have never heard the term "fallen" used for moving to good; it was always "risen" or "ascended". (Logically we also shouldn't call moving to Law or Chaos "falling". What do think of "righted" slaads and "lefted" modrones?)
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2019-09-19, 08:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII
Modrons seem to go by "Rogue". Righted Slaad might actually fit, as that does imply something being put right.
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2019-09-19, 08:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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2019-09-19, 08:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII
Rogue Modrons aren't necessarily chaotic or even something else as lawful neutral, they just aren't part of the hierarchy anymore. What I want is something applicable for every non-chaotic exemplar that moves in direction of Chaos, so for example a "lefted" bateezu and a "righted" eladrin.
Last edited by Tzardok; 2019-12-09 at 05:06 PM.
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2019-09-19, 09:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII
Hm. Well, I've seen Fall for that one too, like the archons who fall to Chaotic Good and become Azuras.
Unbound? Liberated? Randomized?
And I could still see Rogue Devil and Rogue Archon.Last edited by Eldan; 2019-09-19 at 09:35 AM.
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2019-09-19, 09:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII
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2019-09-20, 08:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII
Very broad question here: what are the major differences between Limbo and the Far Realm?
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2019-09-20, 09:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII
Limbo is an endless possibility of what could be, or what has been, or what will be. The far realm is what cannot be, what shall not be, and what never was.
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2019-09-20, 09:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII
Limbo is constant change, but it is change according to the natural laws of the Great Wheel. It has the usual elements (fire, earth, water, air), it has the usual planar connections (Ysgard, Pandemonium, Astral, all that stuff), it has the usual space, time, and ordering. The Far Realm is not that. It might be lots of things--it's hard to tell, because whatever it is, we can't comprehend it--but definitely none of that.
Spoiler: Collectible nice thingsMy incarnate/crusader. A self-healing crowd-control melee build (ECL 8).
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Doctor Despair's and my all-natural approach to necromancy.
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2019-09-21, 12:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII
For Dretch with class levels, there are two quasi-references, both from Return of the Eight.
Tenser's last clone is transformed into a dretch. It has Tenser's hit points and mind, but no wizard abilities.
Tuerny the Merciless appears as a nalfeshnee with 17th level wizard casting abilities. His background describes him as having been taken to the Abyss and turned into a dretch that retained its spellcasting ability and memories, which he used to ascend the ranks in the Blood War and become a nalfeshnee over time.
So "people with class levels turned into dretches" rather than "dretches gaining class levels".
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2019-09-21, 03:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII
The question was more "why the blazes would you want that?"
For the sake of completeness: psionics and warlock/dragonfire adept invocations work normally in Ravenloft?
• Psionics misbehaves the least out of the unusual forms of magic brought to Ravenloft; that's not at all to say that it is safe. (Also, for the record, never ever use danger sense while in Ravenloft.) The power of the mind is capable of leaking out and spawning undesired phenomena, as well as responding to strong emotions in hostile and dangerous ways. The usual cautions about fiddling with things far beyond one's ken apply, but psions must also have a care not to tread on the traditional powers of the Vistani, for their seers are adept at matters of the mind in their own way, and some things in Ravenloft just "belong" to the Vistani and none other. Psionic ability is most common among the giomorgo and giamorga; oddly, this particular talent is not more endemic to full-blooded Vistani. Manifesting is associated with frightening paraphenomena which have little if any tangible impact but are otherworldly and put others on edge. The Vistani word for psionic ability is manash; practitioners are manade and manile.
• Fatakkar are nearly as feared as dukkar among the Vistani, and with good reason - warlocks have opened themselves to the influence and service of terrible entities, whether deliberately or not, with inescapable results in the long term. The powers of zanjir arise from trucking with forces that destabilize the Land itself, and the results have consequences. Darklords can very rapidly locate a practicing warlock in their domains and feel their presence like an itch or pressure. Many other entities of darkness can perceive warlocks at long range. Warlocks gain extra invocations while in Ravenloft, but using invocations very often provokes Ravenloft to exacerbate the intended use to negative or fearsome effect; to amplify or subdue manifestations of power; and to subtly encourage misuse and abuse of a warlock's powers. More powerful warlocks create wrinkles in reality and can engage in rituals to bind the Land's power into them, gaining mighty new abilities but risking surrender to the Demiplane of Dread itself. Vistani caravans will almost always move to avoid an approaching warlock.
• Actual dragons are well beyond rare in the Demiplane of Dread, and practitioners of carcol equally so. In realms where the dragon is a symbol of the temporal power, personal wickedness, or devastating strength of fearsome individuals rather than a depiction of a specific and familiar monster, people seeking to channel the powers of this storybook creature have little to be inspired by and few options to contact the essence of dragonkind. The carcolo is an adept whose powers are little more than showman's tricks, but by 5th level an adept is considered a sarknee and has a poor destiny ahead - for the essence of dragonkind is a thin and wasted thing in the Land, and like stretching meal with sawdust, the Dark Powers have seen fit to supplement the meager traces of draconic magic in Ravenloft with whatever is similar and available. A sarknee becomes more and more physically monstrous as she is overtaken by the hungers of dragonkind, likely leading to spiritual monstrosity as well with the dark deeds required to satiate the dragon within. Dragon shamans tap into less of this power directly and their descent is markedly slower, though no less certain.
• The magic of wu xing is known in some parts of Ravenloft, but is poorly understood by the Vistani (sometimes considered wizardry, sometimes videshi). The native elements of Ravenloft are not those of the Inner Planes, and the wu jen may find their rites and practices contaminated accordingly, adding new and more necromantic spells to their gamut. Talismans used by wu jen in the Demiplane of Dread may include scrolls and slips marked with blood; grave earth and bone; wood from trees at the edges of the Mists; ashes and charcoals from funeral pyres; and mercury or metal tokens smelted from pillaged burial sites. The spirits of Ravenloft may impose demands for taboos on a wu jen of the sort that would cause many to become squeamish; such talismans are a semi-reliable substitute for darker acts sought by the native spirits.
• The Vistani are pretty confident that sha'ir are just wizards with odd familiars. They're correct... in a way. A sha'ir's gen will not thrive in Ravenloft, and the Demiplane of Dread will provide a replacement of rather less than charismatic character, neutral evil and inclined to cruelty. The bava is more akin to an elemental grue than a gen, but untalkative and capable of turning invisible at will. It cannot fetch magic from beyond the borders of Ravenloft, and the magics it does collect will be of darker nature more often than not. The bava lurks invisibly near its ostensible master much of the time, rarely coming visible except to imitate a lifeless statue or fetish. It will take actions undirected that it feels are warranted to contribute to its side of the sha'ir pact, such as plotting pranks or violence against those who it feels have slighted the sha'ir; stealing things that might hinder the sha'ir's will to act; and finding ways to goad people into a course of action that it finds pleasing. Vistani do not allow bavi around them if they can help it and will use their powers to drive off the creatures.
• The atmabash is respected by the Vistani for her skill in carefully handling the spirits of the Land, which may include negotiation, admonishment, or magical rebuke. A spirit shaman can be a powerful ally in the Demiplane of Dread, but must always be wary of drawing too much attention from the spirits, who will grow curious, restless, and hostile given sufficient time. Not unlike the Vistani themselves, a spirit shaman may need to roam continuously in order to avoid serious consequences. Spirit shaman magic tends to be reliable when used to deal with spirits, but directed at mortals for reasons benign or malign will allow the spirits of the Land to exploit such a conduit, forcing the shaman to tread lightly lest the magic get out of hand and a spirit take advantage of the opportunity to do harm.
And how would invocations interact with Athasian defiling?
Gonna make me keep doing this or can you solve these on your own now?
The kaorti were originally Imaskari, not elves, a group of human wizards from Toril who learned the lore of the elves' Vast Gate (though evidently not how much of a huge mistake it was) and tried a similar experiment.
Are there any known details about this library, or how one would get there?
Are there any other known locations or features of the Far Realms that might be interesting to present?
Particular allies or enemies to be made, if one can somehow withstand the influence of the Far Realms themselves?
There are no allies to be made in the Far Realm. There aren't even really enemies to be made. The native entities of the plane will likely harm you simply because you exist and are proximate to them. They most definitely do not want to communicate with you, even if they were cognizant of a method for doing so. What makes the kaorti at all interesting as enemies is that their history leaves them a vestigial awareness of the Great Wheel cosmology as a place that exists, with their behavior here related to being here. I would recommend checking out Lords of Madness to see what kinds of allies might be available on the Material Plane to help repulse the kaorti, but in terms of the Far Realm... no.
Two horrible ones would be Nerull, who freezes the vast majority of his worshipers into the walls of his palace, and Urdlen, whose worshipers are mired in an endless black cavern of loose soil and every so often their god tunnels through and devours the unlucky.
It would have to have been before or during, as the baatezu fell before the end of it.
[SPOILER=Follow up question]And it invites the question: what happened to the First Risen Fiend?[/QUOTE]
Dead. The celestials wanted to study and hopefully reverse theirs. The fiends have no such patience for failures.
Limbo is a sea of elemental possibilities which can be shaped by the mind - if you're conscious and have an imagination, Limbo is what you want it to be. Some of it, anyway. It is a plane attuned to Chaos, home to creatures of true chaos and those who want to live an existence free from any external definition. Limbo isn't particularly maddening, you just need to be ready for it.
The Far Realm is not a place, it's not aligned, and it's only "elemental" in the sense that it's so replete with layers and layers of strange maddening phenomena piled on each other like thin sheets of paper that the easiest way to rapidly summarize the experience is to give it any elemental or energy trait it needs at any given time - often more than one, or even all of them simultaneously. Actual elemental qualities do not belong to it. The Far Realm is outside of time, outside of space, outside of reality, and definitely outside of sanity. It is home to entities that should not be, and defined in any encounter by the reality-based perceptions of the observer contaminating it. The Far Realm erodes the sanity.Need a place to hang? Like Discord? Don't mind dealing with a capricious demon lord? Then you're welcome to join our LGBTQ+ friendly, often silly, very geeky server to discuss food, music, video games, tabletop, and much more.
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2019-09-21, 06:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII
I use braces (also known as "curly brackets") to indicate sarcasm. If there are none present, I probably believe what I am saying; should it turn out to be inaccurate trivia, please tell me rather than trying to play along with an apparent joke I don't know I'm making.
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2019-09-21, 10:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII
Now I want to link ravenloft and the far realm somehow and shake it to see what happens.
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2019-09-21, 11:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII
Need a place to hang? Like Discord? Don't mind dealing with a capricious demon lord? Then you're welcome to join our LGBTQ+ friendly, often silly, very geeky server to discuss food, music, video games, tabletop, and much more.
Manual of the Planes 5th Edition: for all the things the official 5E Planescape didn't cover. Check it out.
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2019-09-22, 08:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII
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2019-09-23, 01:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII
It was just a joke based on a perceived double meaning of your phrasing. I am known to do those, you know.
• The Vistani are pretty confident that sha'ir are just wizards with odd familiars. They're correct... in a way. A sha'ir's gen will not thrive in Ravenloft, and the Demiplane of Dread will provide a replacement of rather less than charismatic character, neutral evil and inclined to cruelty. The bava is more akin to an elemental grue than a gen, but untalkative and capable of turning invisible at will. It cannot fetch magic from beyond the borders of Ravenloft, and the magics it does collect will be of darker nature more often than not. The bava lurks invisibly near its ostensible master much of the time, rarely coming visible except to imitate a lifeless statue or fetish. It will take actions undirected that it feels are warranted to contribute to its side of the sha'ir pact, such as plotting pranks or violence against those who it feels have slighted the sha'ir; stealing things that might hinder the sha'ir's will to act; and finding ways to goad people into a course of action that it finds pleasing. Vistani do not allow bavi around them if they can help it and will use their powers to drive off the creatures.
Gonna make me keep doing this or can you solve these on your own now?
Can you recommend a primer on the language of the Vistani?Last edited by Tzardok; 2019-11-22 at 02:05 PM.
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2019-09-23, 03:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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2019-09-23, 08:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII
Oh, and Eldan? I hereby declare that in the future I will use the terms "codified" and "unbound" for exemplars moving their alignment in direction of Law / Chaos.
Edit: After rereading the third thread I have come to the head-canon that Otiax is the vestigial form of the Vast Gate. Is there anything that contradicts that?Last edited by Tzardok; 2019-09-23 at 09:01 AM.
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2019-09-23, 08:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII
I use braces (also known as "curly brackets") to indicate sarcasm. If there are none present, I probably believe what I am saying; should it turn out to be inaccurate trivia, please tell me rather than trying to play along with an apparent joke I don't know I'm making.
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2019-09-23, 11:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII
The patterna is not the sort of language one can reasonably be primed on; it's an elaborate, living, mutating creole that absorbs and spits out other nearby languages as needs allow. Specific words unique to the patterna convey ideas that are not easily translated; most of the rest of the vocabulary is borrowed from Common and other tongues. A smattering of the canonical terms is below, to give a sense.
Spoiler: Vistani termsDoroq
Part of the Vistani evening rituals, a recitation of myths and stories around the campfire.
Dukkar
An abominable concept to the Vistani, a male Seer, prophesized to be the doom of the Vistani people.
Dya-yahg
The call to break camp.
Endari-vitir
Goodbye/farewell.
Fulltide
The three days of the full moon.
Giogoto
An outsider considered a friend of the band.
Giorgio
A non-Vistana.
Karash
Banishment from the tribe.
Kir-yahg
The call to set up camp.
Koorah
A cry of agreement, lit. "utterly true."
Lunadi
Said to agree to undertake a task or conclude a deal.
Mortu
No longer Vistani, whether by one's own volition or by losing the privileges of a Vistana to static burn.
Prastonata
Part of the traditional Vistani evening ritual, a dance around the campfire.
Raunie
The female leader of a caravan.
Schalach-ti
Abhorred banishment, banishment with severe prejudice, irrevocable.
Tasque
Any of the three known "nations" of Vistani; the Kaldresh, Boem, and Manusa.
Vardo
The traditional round-topped wagon of the Vistani.
I mean there's not anything that says "Oh by the way Otiax is definitely not that," buuuut the Vast Gate does still exist, so that would kind of suggest otherwise. It also bears no resemblance to anything that Otiax's manifestation suggests.
No reason his worshipers can't still join him within the Vortex; outsiders simply cannot enter.Need a place to hang? Like Discord? Don't mind dealing with a capricious demon lord? Then you're welcome to join our LGBTQ+ friendly, often silly, very geeky server to discuss food, music, video games, tabletop, and much more.
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2019-09-24, 01:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII
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2019-09-24, 06:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII
I mean, a door doesn't stop existing if you close it up and brick it over. It's still there, underneath
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2019-09-24, 06:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII
A hole in the wall on the other hand does.
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2019-09-24, 07:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII
Where was the far realm during the law chaos war, or even earlier? with the draeden wars. Was it always "outside" or did it form at some point and time from primal chaos or something else.
Also what is the origin of the obyriths? I know the term protodemons but that seems like a misnomer considering they do not seem to be native of the primal chaos which spawned the abyss.
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2019-09-24, 08:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII
The Far Realm is outside of time and space; it never existed, but has been "around", so to speak, forever. Back in the beginning, when the Draeden went to sleep and the planes started forming, a Far Realms entity named Piscaethces the Blood Queen crashed into our reality and created the aboleths through that. She's still around, having settled in Baator. It is possible that other things crossed over at that time (I once read a fanon timeline that claimed Tharizdun appeared then, while Afro's tale on the origin of mortal races has Urdlen cross over). Afterwards the Far Realms didn't have any effect on reality at all until those idiot elves opened the Vast Gate and created a connection.
Also what is the origin of the obyriths? I know the term protodemons but that seems like a misnomer considering they do not seem to be native of the primal chaos which spawned the abyss.Last edited by Tzardok; 2019-09-24 at 08:56 AM.
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2019-09-24, 09:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII
Last edited by enderlord99; 2019-09-24 at 09:32 AM.
I use braces (also known as "curly brackets") to indicate sarcasm. If there are none present, I probably believe what I am saying; should it turn out to be inaccurate trivia, please tell me rather than trying to play along with an apparent joke I don't know I'm making.
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII
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2019-09-24, 10:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII
Last edited by enderlord99; 2019-09-24 at 10:21 AM.
I use braces (also known as "curly brackets") to indicate sarcasm. If there are none present, I probably believe what I am saying; should it turn out to be inaccurate trivia, please tell me rather than trying to play along with an apparent joke I don't know I'm making.
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2019-09-24, 11:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII
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2019-09-24, 12:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: afroakuma's Planar And Other Oddities Questions Thread VII
I use braces (also known as "curly brackets") to indicate sarcasm. If there are none present, I probably believe what I am saying; should it turn out to be inaccurate trivia, please tell me rather than trying to play along with an apparent joke I don't know I'm making.