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I'm sure we all remember the various destruction wrought upon the world by the dreaded poultrymancers of lore. Any chance I could get a link to build threads? Anything would be appreciated, thanks.
I'm hardly an expert, but if you ever need anything, feel free to PM me. Build advice, homebrew advice,
elaboration of a post I made, explanation of/for my homebrew, my Social Security number, or a friendly ear.
Why? It doesn't really matter. Just get a spell component pouch, take the flaw, and you're good to go. Nothing else really matters. Go make chickens until doomsday.
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Lovely Thaxos, Elder Serpent avatar by Vaynor! Thanks for letting me know man!
The most common CI build is Commoner1/Warlock8 with The Dead Walk invocation. Nab Corpsecrafter and Destructive Retribution from Libris Mortis: The Book of Bad Latin, and go to town. Get a spell component pouce (always a free action to draw from) and start drawing stuff out. Half of it will be chickens, so just toss em on the ground. Have someone with Great Cleave or similar kill ALL of them. Next round reanimate them all as skeletal chickens (1/4 HD?) with The Dead Walk, and apply all of your Corpsecrafter feats. Now, in the next 8 minutes, sick your hoarde of angry death chickens on whatever it is that drew your ire and watch as they all explode upon death into 1d6 negative energy damage bursts. Hillarity ensues.
Plus, since its only temporary, you don't have to pay the expensive material components for Animate Dead....unless you want it to be permanent.
A more elaborate build would be Commoner1/ClericX using a DMM: Fel Animate Greater Consumptive Field. GCF automatically kills anything with 8 HP or less, and Fel Animate automatically raises anything killed by the spell as a zombie. Then just start drawing chickens and each one will be an expoloding zombie doom chicken.
And for extra kicks, grab the feat Tomb Tainted Soul, also from LM, so that negative energy heals you and positive hurts you. Now all of your exploding chickens will HEAL you, giving you a nearly infinitely supply of healing.
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A beholder’s favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.
Chicken Infested is a flaw from Dragon Magazine. Available only to commoners, it gives the commoner a 50% chance, whenever they draw an item, to get a chicken.
What the creator failed to see is that when you draw an item from a spell component pouch or drop an item, it's a free action, so a commoner with this flaw can effectively create an infinite number of chickens as a free action.
It also seems like "drawing an item" would include dumping a barrel of iron filings onto the ground. That's a few hundred thousand "drawn items" so you'd end up dumping half that number as chickens instead?
Someone else wrote the below, but I can't remember who. I think it was Aquillon in his commoner guide:
Quote:
Unless these materials are elaborate preparing these materials is a free action. For material components and focuses whose costs are not listed, you can assume that you have them if you have your spell component pouch.
And spell component pouches never run out of components. You don't actually need to be a caster; you can buy one cheap, even with your starting gold. Oh, and dropping an item is also a free action.
You can see where this is going. A chicken-infested commoner with a spell component pouch can, therefore, produce an arbitrary number of chickens as a free action. Yeah, sure, unlimited gold by selling them, impressive party tricks... who cares.
Now imagine your party is standing outside a dungeon, worried about what's inside. Before anyone can react, you've produced enough chickens to fill it to the bursting, until there's not enough room for anyone in there to breathe. Party being chased? Block off a hallway with chickens. Need battlefield alteration? Meet the new 'spell' my commoner can produce as a free action, which I call 'Wall of Chickens'.
Need to cross a ravine or pit? Fill it with chickens. Need to check for traps? There aren't very many traps that won't go off when ten thousand chickens are stampeded over them.
Team up with your wizard. The wizard uses Disintegrate to drop the BBEG in a pit, and you... bury them in chickens. Instantly.
Set up a Teleportation Circle into the BBEG's base. Stand over it. Produce chickens until their base literally explodes.
If you're ever in a situation where you can't survive, go for the broke and fill all of creation with chickens. Just imagine the reaction of people halfway around the world when every square inch of space in their world is suddenly and completely full of chickens.
It hardly needs to be said, but your party never needs to worry about starving again.
So does a Chicken Infested commoner pretty much immediately go to level 6 or so because he can create a chicken in thin air above a cliff and watch it fall? Up to whatever level you stop getting XP for killing chickens.
It's a Tippyverse thing. Suddenly nobody can ever die of hunger, just malnutrition due to vitamin deficiency. But farmers everywhere can just grow leeks and such instead of animals to make up for it. The value of a chicken drops to virtually nil. Same with feathers, chicken blood, chicken bones, etc.
Tippyverse. And if it's not unbalanced to draw a chicken, why not create a feat that lets you draw a lump of coal instead? Suddenly the world has no problems with heating or fuel for forges and such. A feat to draw a scrap of iron? Whoops, now metal is basically valueless.
Incidentally this is also a problem with the spell component pouches. Spell components were meant to be a meaningful part of being a caster. If you're just going to pencil-whip it then say there are no components except ones that have a GP value.
Tippyverse. And if it's not unbalanced to draw a chicken, why not create a feat that lets you draw a lump of coal instead? Suddenly the world has no problems with heating or fuel for forges and such. A feat to draw a scrap of iron? Whoops, now metal is basically valueless.
You can use chickens as fuel as well (they may need to be killied first, though), processed can be of great use in the building industry, you have infinite amount of the key material for pillows and and such, you can fertilize fields with them, create enough for every person to level up by killing them, up to the point when they stop getting xp for that, sky's the limit...
Actually, this can easily lead into an infinite damage combo:
Commoner1/PsiWar5/WarMind5.
Feats: Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave
The Combo:
He has a spell component pouch to produce an arbitrary number of chickens in one round. So he walks up to an opponent, and starts pulling to get a chicken. It doesn't provoke an AoO, because it is a free action. Okay, he gets a chicken, now he kills it. He gets a free shot on his opponent thanks to Sweeping Strike from War Mind.
But wait, he killed the chicken, so he gets a Cleave. So he uses free actions to produce another chicken, and kills that with his Cleave attack. And gets a free shot on his opponent thanks to Sweeping Strike.
Infinite damage loop by level 12. Not the most optimized, but certainly the most interesting.
Does Sweeping Strike just act like a second type of Cleave effect? Isn't there a maximum number of times per round or something?
I know Cleave is limited in the times you can do it per round. Great Cleave is a pretty messed up feat - they should have said instead that you can Cleave up to once per point of Dex or something.
It's really their fault for putting in an infinite thing to begin with.
I'm looking at Whirlwind Attack here and it says when you use it you forfeit any other bonus or extra attacks from feats, etc. Does that mean you can't Cleave off a Whirlwind Attack? Seems kind of lame to me.
But if you can Cleave off a Whirlwind, what happens when you're using a flaming weapon in the middle of a cloud of gnats? You'd kill some hundred or so gnats during your whirl and smack down a hundred Cleave hits on the one dude you're adjacent to.
By the way, Cleave says it gives you a free attack if you "drop" an opponent. It says you "typically" do this by reducing them to zero HP or killing them. But it looks like dropping them using Improved Trip is still "dropping" them. Or putting them to sleep.
Does this mean a Wizard who used his hands to cast a Sleep spell and "dropped" six Orcs would be able to use his hands to punch with six extra Cleave attacks on an adjacent Ogre? His hands are "the weapon used to drop the previous creature".
They could have worded this better ...
(Someone will reply trying to tear me up about reading it too literally. Another will proclaim if I tried that in his group he'd kick me out. This is expected.)
Does Sweeping Strike just act like a second type of Cleave effect? Isn't there a maximum number of times per round or something?
I know Cleave is limited in the times you can do it per round. Great Cleave is a pretty messed up feat - they should have said instead that you can Cleave up to once per point of Dex or something.
It's really their fault for putting in an infinite thing to begin with.
I'm looking at Whirlwind Attack here and it says when you use it you forfeit any other bonus or extra attacks from feats, etc. Does that mean you can't Cleave off a Whirlwind Attack? Seems kind of lame to me.
But if you can Cleave off a Whirlwind, what happens when you're using a flaming weapon in the middle of a cloud of gnats? You'd kill some hundred or so gnats during your whirl and smack down a hundred Cleave hits on the one dude you're adjacent to.
By the way, Cleave says it gives you a free attack if you "drop" an opponent. It says you "typically" do this by reducing them to zero HP or killing them. But it looks like dropping them using Improved Trip is still "dropping" them. Or putting them to sleep.
Does this mean a Wizard who used his hands to cast a Sleep spell and "dropped" six Orcs would be able to use his hands to punch with six extra Cleave attacks on an adjacent Ogre? His hands are "the weapon used to drop the previous creature".
They could have worded this better ...
(Someone will reply trying to tear me up about reading it too literally. Another will proclaim if I tried that in his group he'd kick me out. This is expected.)
EDIT: Gramer
It's as if a million voices cried out... and were suddenly silenced...
Yeah, that's probably not what they intended, though your analysis is amazingly hilarious.
"I whirlwind attack the cloud of gnats."
"Ok, roll your atta- wait, what?"
"I get a 37. Does that hit?"
"Uh... sure?"
"Cool, then I cleave like 1500 times on that badguy, cause I totally just creamed like 1500 gnats."
"..uh....well...it's like this see.... ROCKS FALL!!"
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Lovely Thaxos, Elder Serpent avatar by Vaynor! Thanks for letting me know man!
Does Sweeping Strike just act like a second type of Cleave effect? Isn't there a maximum number of times per round or something?
No and No. It's in the SRD. It specifically states it works in conjunction with Cleave. Whirlwind and Cleave specifically do not stack, however Sweeping Strike works with Cleave. Thus Whirlwind Attack is obsolete and Great Cleave is in!
Quote:
I know Cleave is limited in the times you can do it per round. Great Cleave is a pretty messed up feat - they should have said instead that you can Cleave up to once per point of Dex or something.
It's really their fault for putting in an infinite thing to begin with.
Probably Strength rather than Dex, it is based on Power Attack, after all.
Quote:
I'm looking at Whirlwind Attack here and it says when you use it you forfeit any other bonus or extra attacks from feats, etc. Does that mean you can't Cleave off a Whirlwind Attack? Seems kind of lame to me.
But if you can Cleave off a Whirlwind, what happens when you're using a flaming weapon in the middle of a cloud of gnats? You'd kill some hundred or so gnats during your whirl and smack down a hundred Cleave hits on the one dude you're adjacent to.
By the way, Cleave says it gives you a free attack if you "drop" an opponent. It says you "typically" do this by reducing them to zero HP or killing them. But it looks like dropping them using Improved Trip is still "dropping" them. Or putting them to sleep.
Does this mean a Wizard who used his hands to cast a Sleep spell and "dropped" six Orcs would be able to use his hands to punch with six extra Cleave attacks on an adjacent Ogre? His hands are "the weapon used to drop the previous creature".
They could have worded this better ...
(Someone will reply trying to tear me up about reading it too literally. Another will proclaim if I tried that in his group he'd kick me out. This is expected.)
EDIT: Gramer
Yes, that is specifically why they changed Whirlwind Attack in 3.5 to specifically exclude that sort of cheese.
Actually, this can easily lead into an infinite damage combo:
Commoner1/PsiWar5/WarMind5.
Feats: Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave
The Combo:
He has a spell component pouch to produce an arbitrary number of chickens in one round. So he walks up to an opponent, and starts pulling to get a chicken. It doesn't provoke an AoO, because it is a free action. Okay, he gets a chicken, now he kills it. He gets a free shot on his opponent thanks to Sweeping Strike from War Mind.
But wait, he killed the chicken, so he gets a Cleave. So he uses free actions to produce another chicken, and kills that with his Cleave attack. And gets a free shot on his opponent thanks to Sweeping Strike.
Infinite damage loop by level 12. Not the most optimized, but certainly the most interesting.
I wouldn't say that this is interesting. This is really just the "broken" Bag of Hamsters trick, replacing it with something that's better with barbecue sauce.
I wouldn't say that this is interesting. This is really just the "broken" Bag of Hamsters trick, replacing it with something that's better with barbecue sauce.
Not quite...
The 'bag of Hamsters/Puppies/Rats" trick is limited to the number of critters in your bag. The chicken-infested variation has an unlimited number of squishy targets, making it a true infinite damage loop as opposed to simply an extremely large number of attacks.
The 'bag of Hamsters/Puppies/Rats" trick is limited to the number of critters in your bag. The chicken-infested variation has an unlimited number of squishy targets, making it a true infinite damage loop as opposed to simply an extremely large number of attacks.
So, in other words, this is the even cheesier version that any DM would be absolutely mad to allow.
So, in other words, this is the even cheesier version that any DM would be absolutely mad to allow.
Precisely!
It's an infinite loop. Like PunPun, The Hulking Hurler, The King of Smack, the Omnisifier, and more... this is not supposed to actually be put into a serious game, it's a joke which exploits the mechanics of the game.
Besides, can ANYTHING that has a 50% chance of drawing a chicken instead of whatever you were trying to accomplish NOT be a joke?
Thanks for all the replies, guys. I appreciate the information. I was talking to a friend about all the horrible tings that could be done, but couldn't remember much in detail.
I'm hardly an expert, but if you ever need anything, feel free to PM me. Build advice, homebrew advice,
elaboration of a post I made, explanation of/for my homebrew, my Social Security number, or a friendly ear.
Just pointing out something that seems to have fallen by the wayside:
The flaw in question was printed in the April Fools Edition of Dragon Magazine in a section of commoner only flaws including ones that made you have to carry a pig at all times, or a Balor would come and kill you. In return for a feat. This isn't even like pun-pun, as it is inherently a joke build from the moment you consider using it. It would be like complaining that the Magic cards from the Unglued/hinged sets are wierd. DUH! That's the point.
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Roy Mustang Avatar by Ninja Chocobo
The difference? Unglued and Unhinged cards have a silver border around them, immediately and obviously denoting their joke status.
And these feats come from a Joke Article. Plus, they are completely outrageous from a game perspective as well(something that is not always the case with unglued cards).
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Roy Mustang Avatar by Ninja Chocobo
Was the article mentioned at any time before my post as being a joke? Even if given that it was a joke, there is such a thing as taking a joke too far. Seeing that people have actually put thought into "builds" around the joke presents (to me, at least) evidence that it crossed that line.
Does Sweeping Strike just act like a second type of Cleave effect? Isn't there a maximum number of times per round or something?
I know Cleave is limited in the times you can do it per round. Great Cleave is a pretty messed up feat - they should have said instead that you can Cleave up to once per point of Dex or something.
It's really their fault for putting in an infinite thing to begin with.
I'm looking at Whirlwind Attack here and it says when you use it you forfeit any other bonus or extra attacks from feats, etc. Does that mean you can't Cleave off a Whirlwind Attack? Seems kind of lame to me.
But if you can Cleave off a Whirlwind, what happens when you're using a flaming weapon in the middle of a cloud of gnats? You'd kill some hundred or so gnats during your whirl and smack down a hundred Cleave hits on the one dude you're adjacent to.
By the way, Cleave says it gives you a free attack if you "drop" an opponent. It says you "typically" do this by reducing them to zero HP or killing them. But it looks like dropping them using Improved Trip is still "dropping" them. Or putting them to sleep.
Does this mean a Wizard who used his hands to cast a Sleep spell and "dropped" six Orcs would be able to use his hands to punch with six extra Cleave attacks on an adjacent Ogre? His hands are "the weapon used to drop the previous creature".
They could have worded this better ...
(Someone will reply trying to tear me up about reading it too literally. Another will proclaim if I tried that in his group he'd kick me out. This is expected.)
EDIT: Gramer
Yo're reading it too literally.
If you tried that at my table you'd be kicked out.
Am I doing it right, or does it need exclamation marks?
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Remember how I was wishing for the peace of oblivion a minute ago?
Was the article mentioned at any time before my post as being a joke?
1st April. Isn't it obvious? Wouldn't it be obvious even if it wasn't printed on April Fool's Day? Does each joke, humorous footnote and thing not to be taken seriously have to be labelled as such, for fear of people not getting it? I have more hopes in humanity than that.
Quote:
Even if given that it was a joke, there is such a thing as taking a joke too far. Seeing that people have actually put thought into "builds" around the joke presents (to me, at least) evidence that it crossed that line.
You're in the minority here.
I hate to explain the joke, but it seems I have to do it: such builds are funny BECAUSE they work mechanically, according to RAW. Common sense not much, but Rules As Written indeed. Creating a homebrew class with a feature to Become A God at 1st level is lame and not funny. Creating a build that lets you Become A God at 1st level (if you're a kobold) and WORKS within the RAW, even if no sane DM would allow you to pull that off, is hilarious.
Does Sweeping Strike just act like a second type of Cleave effect? Isn't there a maximum number of times per round or something?
I know Cleave is limited in the times you can do it per round. Great Cleave is a pretty messed up feat - they should have said instead that you can Cleave up to once per point of Dex or something.
It's really their fault for putting in an infinite thing to begin with.
I'm looking at Whirlwind Attack here and it says when you use it you forfeit any other bonus or extra attacks from feats, etc. Does that mean you can't Cleave off a Whirlwind Attack? Seems kind of lame to me.
But if you can Cleave off a Whirlwind, what happens when you're using a flaming weapon in the middle of a cloud of gnats? You'd kill some hundred or so gnats during your whirl and smack down a hundred Cleave hits on the one dude you're adjacent to.
By the way, Cleave says it gives you a free attack if you "drop" an opponent. It says you "typically" do this by reducing them to zero HP or killing them. But it looks like dropping them using Improved Trip is still "dropping" them. Or putting them to sleep.
Does this mean a Wizard who used his hands to cast a Sleep spell and "dropped" six Orcs would be able to use his hands to punch with six extra Cleave attacks on an adjacent Ogre? His hands are "the weapon used to drop the previous creature".
They could have worded this better ...
(Someone will reply trying to tear me up about reading it too literally. Another will proclaim if I tried that in his group he'd kick me out. This is expected.)
EDIT: Gramer
Except a cloud of gnats would count as a swarm and you wouldn't kill the swarm with one hit if there were 1500 of them.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alabenson
Evil Intelligence is knowing the precise ritual that will allow you to destroy the peaceful kingdom that banished you.
Evil Wisdom is understanding that you probably shouldn’t perform said ritual while you’re standing in the estimated blast radius.
1st April. Isn't it obvious? Wouldn't it be obvious even if it wasn't printed on April Fool's Day? Does each joke, humorous footnote and thing not to be taken seriously have to be labelled as such, for fear of people not getting it? I have more hopes in humanity than that.
Given its similarity to something actually attempted, and that nowhere in this thread was the date of the article mentioned, I wouldn't call it obvious.
Quote:
You're in the minority here.
I hate to explain the joke, but it seems I have to do it: such builds are funny BECAUSE they work mechanically, according to RAW. Common sense not much, but Rules As Written indeed. Creating a homebrew class with a feature to Become A God at 1st level is lame and not funny. Creating a build that lets you Become A God at 1st level (if you're a kobold) and WORKS within the RAW, even if no sane DM would allow you to pull that off, is hilarious.
And now that you've explained the "joke," that means that it wasn't told correctly, because if it was, no explanation would be needed.
The difference? Unglued and Unhinged cards have a silver border around them, immediately and obviously denoting their joke status.
It is worth pointing out that my post quoted above going into detail on it (although other people had noted the odd things you could do with the flaw earlier) is from this thread; the context is important.
It's a strategy that ends with "and then I full the entire universe with chickens!" I think you should be able to read that and know what it means.
And what it means is that commoners are completely awesome. Don't believe what everyone else here is saying; I am deadly serious. Because they can take this flaw (and for other reasons, but partially because of this flaw) Commoners make Wizards look as weak as Soulknives. The relevant power comparison is something like Commoner >> Wizard.
Seriously. While the wizard is busy casting spells you bury not only them but everyone they care about in chickens -- clucking, pecking, angry and confused chickens. Does the wizard have a spell to deal with chickens? Well... yes, actually, probably several. But you can just respond by sending in more chickens. The Cleric with a Persistent Greater Consumptive Field might seem like a problem, since each chicken will only make them stronger... but we have another trick up our sleeves.
Optimally, our build should be a Warforged Commoner. Create chickens until the spellcasters have no more room to breathe, speak, or move (note that they cannot even Plane Shift to escape, as it has a focus component that they can't use while immobilized. Still silent teleportation doesn't help, as there is no free space to teleport to.) With them immobilized in this fashion, wait for them to suffocate or, if they don't need to breathe either, wait for them to die of old age, then wait for your (also dead) chickens to decompose to the point where you can move again. Congratulations, you win. Note that just about anything else in the universe that needs to breathe and/or has an age limit is also likely to be dead, so that's an added bonus. This means we can now go around and collect their stuff. Some method of going to other planes would be a good idea, too (although we can probably find such a method by looting, after suffocating everyone else via chickens); that way we'll have some place to sell all our loot and, once we're done with that, we can suffocate those planes, too, not to mention going after any spellcasters that used planar travel to escape themselves.
Last edited by Aquillion : 02-07-2009 at 10:35 AM.
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