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Prepare for the Rant! Why does everyone hate gnomes?! There is nothing wrong with them, save misrepresentation! They have been portrayed as annoying pranksters, annoying tinkerers, and annoying halflings, just more annoying!If I were in charge, I'd just get rid of halfings and have gnomes replace them. Halflings have no place in D&D, it's ripping off Tolkien. Actually, they were originally called 'hobbits', but Tolkein's lawyers intervened. SRD changed the name to halfings. For some reason, that was okay.
Halflings have no place in D&D. Gnomes have the potential to be a really awesome race. D&D is just leeching off LotR's popularity with tall, hot elves, orcs, grumpy comedic-relief dwarves, and HALFLINGS!
Orcs I can understand, I guess. I would prefer we not have them, but I've had some pretty cool campaigns with them. But we have no need for halfings! We have gnomes for that! Because of halflings, gnomes are too unfocused to be popular!
DEATH TO ALL HALFLINGS!!! LEAVE THE ****ing GNOMES ALONE!!!!
Okay, I'm done. I still think we need our own website.
Also, nobody answered my question about Bilbo.
Oh sure, they are pranksters. And I also think that the joke their god pulled on the kobolds was really hilarious. You know ? Mass genocide of other sentient species just because they actually work and enjoy it and your own race just likes to **** around and jest ? Yeah, that is always good for good laughs.
**** Gnomes.
Also, halflings are kickass. They are one of the core races. Saying that halflings dont belong in D&D would be like saying dwarves, elves and orcs dont belong in D&D because they are not human.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JGoldenberg
you would make an awesome propagandist for Kobolds.
Gnomes aren't as bad as people make em out to be, it's mostly just the people behind them. Of course, I'm talking about WoW gnomes here. Seeing as I can't really comment on the DnD kind. It's too bad that I'm still obligated to dislike them.
Gnomes aren't as bad as people make em out to be, it's mostly just the people behind them. Of course, I'm talking about WoW gnomes here. Seeing as I can't really comment on the DnD kind. It's too bad that I'm still obligated to dislike them.
For the Horde!
Leper Gnomes > normal Gnomes :D
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JGoldenberg
you would make an awesome propagandist for Kobolds.
I like gnomes. Haflings aren't entirely ripped of LotR(they're thievery and have shoes). But I dislike Garl glittergold (gnome god) for collapsing a cave on the kobold god, according to Races of the Dragon all kobold god (forgot his name) did was to build a large mine for his people (which Garl destroyed on him) but when Garl ruined his dream but the other gods gave him (the kobold) a choice: his mine our to be the god and martyr of his people (he chose the last, heroic aint it).
On another note, what about "draconic week" that'll give some choices and be close to "kobold week" (Kobolds originated from Tiamat and that good dragon it fight's blood stain in their battle, awesome)
Regarding the halfling thief thing: Hobbits were renowned thieves, and Bilbo in his earlier years was hired as one by Gandalf and the dwarves to get treasure from a dragon.
DnD didn't invent the Halfling Thief stereotype.
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Regarding the halfling thief thing: Hobbits were renowned thieves, and Bilbo in his earlier years was hired as one by Gandalf and the dwarves to get treasure from a dragon.
DnD didn't invent the Halfling Thief stereotype.
Actually that they where good as thief's is a coincidence. At Bilbo's time at least there was none Hobbit thief's and all Hobbits was peaceful people. Gandalf just like to mess with people.
Why does everyone hate gnomes?! There is nothing wrong with them, save misrepresentation! They have been portrayed as annoying pranksters, annoying tinkerers, and annoying halflings, just more annoying!
Arguably, if something's portrayed exclusively as annoying, it probably is. While outside of D&D gnomes are seen usually as "earth dwellers", and caring deeply for nature, D&D attempted to recast the race, and make them more interesting, particularly for players. Hence we get the idea of Gnome tricksters, to appeal to those who want to play prankster characters. Ultimately, it was decided that Gnomes simply did not appeal enough players, and was removed for that reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gremlin
If I were in charge, I'd just get rid of halfings and have gnomes replace them. Halflings have no place in D&D, it's ripping off Tolkien. Actually, they were originally called 'hobbits', but Tolkein's lawyers intervened. SRD changed the name to halfings. For some reason, that was okay.
Halflings have been in D&D since first edition, when they were called hobbits, yes. And yes, they were blatantly copied from Tolkien. However, since then the race of Halflings have been developed to fit with how they are played, and they no longer really resemble Hobbits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gremlin
Halflings have no place in D&D. Gnomes have the potential to be a really awesome race. D&D is just leeching off LotR's popularity with tall, hot elves, orcs, grumpy comedic-relief dwarves, and HALFLINGS!
Gnomes may have had the potential to be an awesome race, but they weren't liked. So they have lost whatever potential they might have had. If you can re-fluff Gnomes to improve upon them, feel free. I mean, it can't be hard, 4chan pulled it off with Sergals (but don't tell /b/ that).
And you're knowledge of both LotR and D&D seems lacking. Elves have always been described as attractive, but Tolkien made his tall, while D&D kept theirs short. Tolkien did not create Orcs, but did define their role in most modern fantasy. And as for dwarfs, in Tolkien, and D&D, they are a very serious race. I don't know where you got the comic relief idea from.
Arguably, if something's portrayed exclusively as annoying, it probably is. While outside of D&D gnomes are seen usually as "earth dwellers", and caring deeply for nature, D&D attempted to recast the race, and make them more interesting, particularly for players. Hence we get the idea of Gnome tricksters, to appeal to those who want to play prankster characters. Ultimately, it was decided that Gnomes simply did not appeal enough players, and was removed for that reason.
Halflings have been in D&D since first edition, when they were called hobbits, yes. And yes, they were blatantly copied from Tolkien. However, since then the race of Halflings have been developed to fit with how they are played, and they no longer really resemble Hobbits.
Gnomes may have had the potential to be an awesome race, but they weren't liked. So they have lost whatever potential they might have had. If you can re-fluff Gnomes to improve upon them, feel free. I mean, it can't be hard, 4chan pulled it off with Sergals (but don't tell /b/ that).
And you're knowledge of both LotR and D&D seems lacking. Elves have always been described as attractive, but Tolkien made his tall, while D&D kept theirs short. Tolkien did not create Orcs, but did define their role in most modern fantasy. And as for dwarfs, in Tolkien, and D&D, they are a very serious race. I don't know where you got the comic relief idea from.
*coughcough*Gimli*coughcough*
That was more my complaint with the movie, I admit. But a lot of guys roleplay dwarves that way. Not to mention, originally dwarves were nothing like D&D's and Tolkein's.
And when it comes to elves, you are completely wrong. Elves were always described at beautiful, TINY fairies. Tolkein made them more 'material'. The closest to modern day elves back then were the elves with hollowed backs like a tree.
A lot of the complaints I'm listing here are with the movie, though, I admit.
So, it would appear that I haven't really made myself clear here.
I agree that gnomes have sucked. That's because nobody has bothered to give them anything good. They deserve the PHB more than halflings do. Gnomes are a pretty good staple of fantasy. They've been around for a while. Halflings are just something the SRD brought in because they wanted to build off Tolkein's popularity. And they stayed.
Gnomes have a lot of potential as races. As a more original race than halflings, who were around first,they could quite easily take the halflings' place. It's not fair that a race that's only been around for a little while gets to be a main race, while another one gets kicked out.
And when it comes to elves, you are completely wrong. Elves were always described at beautiful, TINY fairies. Tolkein made them more 'material'. The closest to modern day elves back then were the elves with hollowed backs like a tree.
Wrong. In several cultures, for example Early Modern England, elves were described as tiny creatures, but in many, older, cultures, elves were human sized. Indeed, the oldest known references to elves come from Norse mythology, where Elves were human sized, and English took the word elf from the Norse word álfr.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gremlin
I agree that gnomes have sucked. That's because nobody has bothered to give them anything good. They deserve the PHB more than halflings do. Gnomes are a pretty good staple of fantasy. They've been around for a while. Halflings are just something the SRD brought in because they wanted to build off Tolkein's popularity. And they stayed.
Gnomes have a lot of potential as races. As a more original race than halflings, who were around first,they could quite easily take the halflings' place. It's not fair that a race that's only been around for a little while gets to be a main race, while another one gets kicked out.
But D&D Gnomes have never really been anything like classic Gnomes. They had more in common with Dwarves, and were nothing like Halflings, and only resembled Hobbits in that they lived underground. If we want traditional Gnomes, we get creatures that are 18" high, and care for wildlife. This isn't something people want to play, so TSR (which is what I think you mean by SRD) recreated them.
An medieval danish fairy tale speaks of the "elverfolk" (because of that name we call fantasy elf's "elver" and the other elf's (small fairy ones) another name) They where nice but beware, the elven maidens lured young men into dancing with them, if you was lured into dancing they would make you dance till you died. To get away all you had to do is to concentrate on the truth: They don't exist. Then you'll get away and they'll never get you again.
Weird story right. Tolkien could had known this story since it says they are human like, beautiful (in the original, I can't remember it all) and they live in the wood (also original story, in fact they lived in a hill in a forest filled with magic beings such as lake-mens) but that's just a possibility not a fact (and would mean Tolkien ripped of someone else) but it's very close to the empty back ones you mentioned Gremlin, so I guess it aint so new if we dig deep enough. Hmm "elven" and "elver" is close, what a coincidence.
And my dwarf character aint comedy relief (he's a cleric and still more lawful and serious than our paladin) by the way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keris Rain
Wrong. In several cultures, for example Early Modern England, elves were described as tiny creatures, but in many, older, cultures, elves were human sized. Indeed, the oldest known references to elves come from Norse mythology, where Elves were human sized, and English took the word elf from the Norse word álfr.
.
Oh that's where we got that idea. YAY for rich culture
Wrong. In several cultures, for example Early Modern England, elves were described as tiny creatures, but in many, older, cultures, elves were human sized. Indeed, the oldest known references to elves come from Norse mythology, where Elves were human sized, and English took the word elf from the Norse word álfr.
But D&D Gnomes have never really been anything like classic Gnomes. They had more in common with Dwarves, and were nothing like Halflings, and only resembled Hobbits in that they lived underground. If we want traditional Gnomes, we get creatures that are 18" high, and care for wildlife. This isn't something people want to play, so TSR (which is what I think you mean by SRD) recreated them.
*Chokes on Keris's superior research*
Oh yeah? Well...so's you face!
EDIT: Also, I just realized something: SoG is the original inventor of FI! I'd thougth that MM was, but it turns out that MM just came up with the ideas and stuff!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shades of gray
I shouldn't be saying this...
So I'll get a hand puppet to!
Spoiler
Wouldn't it be cool to have a post-apocalyptic possible future plot? The place where future salmon came from? The good guys would be guerillas and freedom fighters, with some turning over to the dark side.
Last edited by The Gremlin : 02-15-2009 at 01:17 PM.
Actually that they where good as thief's is a coincidence. At Bilbo's time at least there was none Hobbit thief's and all Hobbits was peaceful people. Gandalf just like to mess with people.
Nah, he just likes to give people a push out the door.
Quote:
I agree that gnomes have sucked. That's because nobody has bothered to give them anything good. They deserve the PHB more than halflings do. Gnomes are a pretty good staple of fantasy. They've been around for a while. Halflings are just something the SRD brought in because they wanted to build off Tolkein's popularity. And they stayed.
Gnomes have a lot of potential as races. As a more original race than halflings, who were around first,they could quite easily take the halflings' place. It's not fair that a race that's only been around for a little while gets to be a main race, while another one gets kicked out.
1. D&D will die the day when halflings wont be in the PHB.
2. Gnomes are simply not all that cool. Sure, tinker gnomes and whisper gnomes are cool, but they suck overall. (although they would have been better off in the 4th edition PHB instead of the dragonborn).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JGoldenberg
you would make an awesome propagandist for Kobolds.
*Chokes on Keris's superior research*
Oh yeah? Well...so's you face!
EDIT: Also, I just realized something: SoG is the original inventor of FI! I'd thougth that MM was, but it turns out that MM just came up with the ideas and stuff!
Yes, technically, but I was inspired by a pic that MM made of future Igon.
Hooray for sock puppet man!
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1. D&D will die the day when halflings wont be in the PHB.
Not neccesarily. It might die the day after.
Quote:
2. Gnomes are simply not all that cool. Sure, tinker gnomes and whisper gnomes are cool, but they suck overall. (although they would have been better off in the 4th edition PHB instead of the dragonborn).
The main reason that people hate Dragonborn is that it pretty much is the poster-boy of 4E, and many people dislike it. I personally, am neutral on the 3.5 v 4E, I run a game of both. 3.5 for the people who are veterans, and 4E for the newbies. Most of the arguments are just that the game discourages roleplaying, but I find that it leaves more room for it. By not having as much rules in the way, nothing is interfering with RP at all, unlike Paladin's required alignment and code.
[/rant]
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*coughcough*Gimli*coughcough*
That was more my complaint with the movie, I admit. But a lot of guys roleplay dwarves that way. Not to mention, originally dwarves were nothing like D&D's and Tolkein's.
And when it comes to elves, you are completely wrong. Elves were always described at beautiful, TINY fairies. Tolkein made them more 'material'. The closest to modern day elves back then were the elves with hollowed backs like a tree.
A lot of the complaints I'm listing here are with the movie, though, I admit.
....
Well, if you want to talk about the movies; The first one was kinda decent and the second one was crap. Not dissing the special effects or anything, but S.E. don't make a good movie by themselves.
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Re: Avatar Battle Royale Discussion Thread XVIII
