GitP WarCraft 3: The Frozen Throne group (thread II) - Page 6

nooblade · 07-27-2009, 10:55 PM

Back from vacation! It was fun, of course, going someplace outdoorsy always is. I guess I'll show up tomorrow but I have more management tasks for the night.

I thought the items in CfG were pretty good actually. If you're focusing on making your hero awesome then it's redundant but the fun part is working out something neat with your allies. Eg. the Warrior could get the Spear to help the Rogue's DPS out rather than having the Rogue get a Spear. It's not too satisfying because there aren't many combinations like that (and where there are, they're skewed toward a handful of the hero picks), and because you don't have much time to chat, but it is another small layer of decision-making on top of choosing skills.

The worst part about items is the designer expecting and balancing for some kind of serious forethought in a game that ends up being played like Worm Wars.

Also, with the complete lack of micro for a player in a CfG game that's necessary for its quirky balance (wait... wait... two seconds to Entangling Roots... one and a half... one... one half... zero... hold it... wait... wait... oh, hey, a combo!), I find that balancing the gold out between offensive and defensive upgrades is sometimes more interesting than the current battle. What a game!

Winterwind · 07-28-2009, 03:59 AM

Welcome back, Nooblade!

Yeah, I agree; in CfG, while the items one gets are for the most part pre-determined, the order in which one does so and in which one upgrades them later is not.

nooblade · 07-29-2009, 10:34 AM

This should be good. A Warcraft movie!

Faith says that the movie itself was announced some months or years ago or something? But I just heard about it and the new director news makes it count as news. I'm inclined to think that it would be worth seeing just because Sam Raimi is directing (one of my favorite guys to cheer for in the movie business), let alone because it's being Blizzard-sponsored.

Now what kind of twist can they spin on it to make it interesting for people unfamiliar with the games and people who played them all alike?

Winterwind · 07-29-2009, 10:45 AM

Hmm... I knew of the plans for that movie, but didn't know they actually took steps to turn it into reality. Sweet.

I think they actually wouldn't have to make any sort of twist. The campaigns of RoC and TFT should, rewritten into a more compact, story-like form, be a decent enough fantasy tale for people not familiar with the games, and most people familiar with the games would probably be all too glad to see the plot follow the original's plot closely.

Bunny of Faith · 07-29-2009, 11:30 AM

Two years ago, in fact.

Copper8642 · 07-29-2009, 12:14 PM

I think, next Friday, I'll be able to make it to the session. Maybe a bit late, but I'll make it. Finally!

Winterwind · 07-30-2009, 07:27 AM

Sounds good, Copper.

So reminder! Tomorrow is our next custom map session - hope to see you all there.

The Orange Zergling · 07-30-2009, 12:49 PM

Funny little tidbit about the Warcraft movie; Uwe Boll made a grab for the director's seat but Blizzard turned him down in a truly epic fashion.

Good to know they're still sensible.

Oslecamo · 07-30-2009, 01:03 PM

It's nice to see that Blizzard is still being run by people with brains

Winterwind · 07-30-2009, 01:12 PM

"Especially not to you."

Aww, man, I love Blizzard.

Marek · 07-30-2009, 08:40 PM

For those who dislike Obsidian Depths (a game made by Clan VZ, of which I am a part), a major turn off is the seeming impossibility of completing the assigned tasks, let alone finishing them in a timely enough fashion to get a "Masters" bonus.

Here is a replay that shows it is not only possible, but truly epic indeed: HERE

I wasn't in this particular one, but I do have one where a group of 5 people (of which I was the Berserker) got all the way to Cyndarr, the (currently) last boss. Only 3/5 masters, but it was still lots of fun :D

Winterwind · 08-01-2009, 04:54 AM

And reminder: Tomorrow is our next melee session. Hope to see you there.

Bane, warm up your self-made map already.

...or better not, we don't want it to thaw.

The Orange Zergling · 08-01-2009, 01:05 PM

Don't shout when I'm about to put the fusion core into the nuclear reactor; it's a crucial step!

(I'm working on it right now; I'll fiddle around with the settings for teams-together but it's so vague that I can't be sure whether it works or not, the other things mentioned during the last test should have more definite changes.)

The Fiery Tower · 08-02-2009, 01:57 PM

Well, I changed my name on GITP to The Fiery Tower, thought I'd let you guys know.

Winterwind · 08-03-2009, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Orange Zergling

Don't shout when I'm about to put the fusion core into the nuclear reactor; it's a crucial step!

Please tell me we are not going to have a repetition of the Black Mesa incident...

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Orange Zergling

(I'm working on it right now; I'll fiddle around with the settings for teams-together but it's so vague that I can't be sure whether it works or not, the other things mentioned during the last test should have more definite changes.)

Alright, let's give it a test soon to see if the teams-together option is working better now (and for all the other changes, too), then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Fiery Tower

Well, I changed my name on GITP to The Fiery Tower, thought I'd let you guys know.

Thanks; that spares me going through the Name Change Request threads in search of some hint what your new name might be.

The Orange Zergling · 08-03-2009, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterwind

Please tell me we are not going to have a repetition of the Black Mesa incident...

Prepare for... unforeseen consequences.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterwind

Alright, let's give it a test soon to see if the teams-together option is working better now (and for all the other changes, too), then.

I fiddled around with it and after a couple tests with bots it does seem to be working now, thankfully.

Bunny of Faith · 08-04-2009, 12:42 PM

Blizzard's new patch broke custom games.

Winterwind · 08-04-2009, 01:09 PM

Hmmm... yeah, according to the changelog, I imagine it might have done that for some maps.
Though if it fixed any World Editor bugs, all the better. Now, if only they could fix memory leaks, too...

I only wished I understood what half the stuff mentioned in the changelog actually does...

Bunny of Faith · 08-04-2009, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterwind

Hmmm... yeah, according to the changelog, I imagine it might have done that for some maps.

Understandment on 'some'. Can't find any maps working at the moment, and they broke the current DotA, causing people to downgrade to an older version.

nooblade · 08-04-2009, 01:17 PM

Seems like the things I've been doing with SCA are working fine.

I used some jass when it really saved me time (and carpal tunnel, the GUI is too much clicking

), but I guess not the particular parts that Blizzard thought were bugs.

There are still a number of things to do for Spellcast: Arena. Ran into some unforeseen difficulties in the gesture system and went with a rework for it, but I really like the new version so I think it was worth it.

I wouldn't bet on having the first difficulty ready by Friday. But when it is ready, I will host the most glorious fistfight that any game about spellcasting has ever seen. Yes, Untrained difficulty will feature three "spells": "Punch", "Rune of Power", and "Surrender". Punch is obvious but the other two "spells" are interesting.

Spoiler

A big spell list, sorted by difficulty, not entirely based on DnD, subject to changes:

Spoiler

About the World Editor changes in the latest patch: They don't work! Trying to save an ability in a hashtable crashes the editor. I guess I'll have to wait until they fix that until I see what the things can do.

Oh, and also, CfG works just fine with this patch. And lots of bored people join it too!

The Orange Zergling · 08-05-2009, 12:09 PM

On the subject of the patch breaking maps: Yeah, it sucks, but the main reason they made this patch in the first place was because it had recently been discovered that one could convert integers into bytecode which, to the best of my understanding, meant that someone knowledgeable enough could program viruses into the map itself that could seriously harm your computer. I think they released a temporary hotfix as soon as they became aware of it that meant you couldn't download any maps like that off of Battle.net but it was still possible to be affected by maps downloaded off of websites. This patch should be the permanent fix that secures all maps.

I think it's worth it, in the long run.

Bunny of Faith · 08-05-2009, 05:29 PM

Depends. If they leave it how it is now, think of all the custom maps that aren't updated anymore and are affected, that're never going to be playable again?

The Orange Zergling · 08-05-2009, 07:20 PM

As much as I disapprove of cracking protected maps, I suppose it would be justified to take a map that has obviously been abandoned and change it so that it would function again but change nothing else about it. But that assumes that there is somebody around who both cares enough and is knowledgeable enough about scripting because to the best of my knowledge the only things affected by this are advanced JASS scripts...

nooblade · 08-05-2009, 08:51 PM

Try wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JASS#Pa...and_return_bug. This one is good too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_table

I don't completely understand it myself. Hash tables will likely remain a mystery to me because the GUI for some of the storage functions causes the editor to crash. But I'm not too worried about the custom maps that may be lost; there are still plenty of fun maps I can play on Bnet when I'm interested.

People were talking about maps that were Wigitized or protected all being effected, but CfG has some form of protection and wasn't effected (not that CfG is the model of a map made by a professional). On a slightly unrelated note, I have read that unprotecting a map takes away all the GUI and leaves you with only JASS, sounds kinda fun. I don't disapprove cracking maps at all.

The Orange Zergling · 08-05-2009, 09:13 PM

I'm not sure that's true in all cases - some people use third party editors or optimizers that can interfere with triggerwork which act as rudimentary protectors (or a second line of defense).

Orc Gladiators, for example, is not protected but using the default editor when opening it there do not appear to be any triggers.

Vexorian's Optimizer, though I have never personally used it, supposedly converts everything to JASS and makes it all so jumbled that it's virtually unreadable in addition to protecting the map.

Though I don't endorse protecting maps in the first place either (it prevents so much learning and spreading of knowledge) it's ultimately the mapper's choice and in every single other case I would most definitely oppose the cracking of protected maps.

u-gotNOgame · 08-05-2009, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Orange Zergling

I think it's worth it, in the long run.

But its not fixed?. Even if that first post is not true it killed a lot of custom games, some for a long time, others permanently. The reality is that most of the long dead, broken, games won't get updated reguardless of other players stance on the morality of cracking protected maps. I think that this friday will be a sad, sad, day.

-UGNG

The Orange Zergling · 08-05-2009, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u-gotNOgame

But its not fixed?. Even if that first post is not true it killed a lot of custom games, some for a long time, others permanently. The reality is that most of the long dead, broken, games won't get updated reguardless of other players stance on the morality of cracking protected maps. I think that this friday will be a sad, sad, day.

-UGNG

I haven't heard anywhere else that it's not been fixed, and the Battle.net forums are infamous for trolls...

But my god, I just went through my map list, assuming this was just a problem found in maps with hyper-advanced scripting like Rising_Dusk's maps or something... and... wow. This is way way way way way way way more widespread than I expected; I think maybe 30-40% of the maps in my (295mb, 345 maps) folder survived and most of those are crappy ones we never play.

I'm... utterly speechless.

Bunny of Faith · 08-06-2009, 06:56 AM

2GB's, 3371 maps. Used to have more, but the majority were on and old computer I never got a backup of, so this'll have to do. Checking how many I have left that work...

Too many to count. But it normally black-screens and takes about a minute to load, so I'll take it loading in ten seconds or so as a bad sign.

Winterwind · 08-06-2009, 07:48 AM

Keep in mind though, Bane, that we all suffered from this weird bug where some maps would not show up at all (at least while being in sub-folders, apparently), while still being quite playable. Some maps might be simply affected by that, rather than the patch.

Though it sure does not sound well, especially if Faith's map loading times being reduced to one sixth of their former self is any indication.

I just hope they fix RvS and CF quickly, if they have been affected...

Bunny of Faith · 08-06-2009, 08:21 AM

RvS works. Or, an older version does. A version of it works, at least, as I've played it recently. Not a clue on CF, but presumably if it doesn't work one of the older versions will.