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So, for a while I've been wanting to roll up a warlock, but haven't found the right way to do it. In addition to prestiege classes, can anyone give me an idea of what invocations to take?
So, for a while I've been wanting to roll up a warlock, but haven't found the right way to do it. In addition to prestiege classes, can anyone give me an idea of what invocations to take?
depends on what you want.
for all around bad-ass damage, there is the binder1/warlock16/Hellfire warlock3 build that can pull about 14d6 damage a round without any items used, and once you use items you can boot it up to about 16d6, plus the one feat that gives you a bonus when you use a Spell like ability against mortals [Mortalbane], and psionic shot+greater psionic shot for around 21d6 a round.
EDIT: plus this has Invocations of an 19th level warlock.
So, for a while I've been wanting to roll up a warlock, but haven't found the right way to do it. In addition to prestiege classes, can anyone give me an idea of what invocations to take?
Well, obviously it depends on level and what exactly you want to do. Eldritch Glaive [Dragon Magic] allows you to become a "melee" character of sorts, so that's a definite if you want to, y'know, fight in melee.
Baleful Utterance [CArc] is definitely one you want for low levels. It grows much weaker as levels increase though since Shatter doesn't impact magic items. Summon Swarm [CArc] is the definite low level combat invocation and you'll definitely want to pick up Vitriolic Blast [CArc] when you gain access, just to penetrate SR.
Other than that, you'll definitely want Fell Flight [CArc] and at least one scaling Dispel per level (Voracious Dispelling [CArc], Relentless Dispelling [CM], Devour Magic [CArc] - use the one you want as long as it functions near your class level; you'll need to switch to Greater Dispelling-mimicking one once your class level exceeds ~13 to make the checks). Other than that, See the Unseen [CArc] is something you'll very probably want.
Beyond those, you'll want to be taking those that fit your goals. Diplomat? Beguiling Influence. Knowledge Monkey? Try Otherworldly Whispers [Complete Mage]. Just pick the ones that fit your role, along with the Blast Shapes and Essences you'd see yourself using. Warlock Information Compilation should be v. useful for you.
this i believe is legal, but i am still unsure if the ur-priest gets rid of the death domain.
I don't think this is legal unless you somehow make yourself undead first (for spellstitched template), and that brings up it's own issues. Also, if I were a DMing a game for this build I'd immediately bomb your class features for True Necromancer due to you having lost access to the Death domain (by becoming an ex-cleric).
oh, and as soon as you can get it, go for Flee the Scene, no matter what your build. its just pure awesome.
Flee the Scene is very decent, but a Fell Flight Warlock rarely runs into situations where someone is heavily beating up on them anyways, so I wouldn't say it's a must. Second-best defensive invocation on Lesser, for sure, but Fell Flight is better.
It's too bad really that Flee the Scene has short range. If it gave you a use of the real Dimension Door, it'd always be a must. But short range means it doesn't get you much further than a move action so the primary use of it is the Major Image.
Look into the Fey Heritage feats. Fey Heritage and Fey Skin will give you DR 2/cold iron at level 1, going up to 4/cold iron at level 3 if you take another heritage feat then.
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Dhavaer, your ideas are like candy from the sky, sprinkled lightly with cinnamon.
Look into the Fey Heritage feats. Fey Heritage and Fey Skin will give you DR 2/cold iron at level 1, going up to 4/cold iron at level 3 if you take another heritage feat then.
Those feats are a large waste of slots. Unless the DR they give you is at a 2 for 1 value or better (or auto-scales with level without needing additional feat slots), the feat is generally not worth it. Furthermore, DR is largely useless for a Warlock (he's an archer/caster, not a tank).
For glavelock's, the heritage feats are definitely worth it.
+1 to your invocations, various spell like abilities that you now don't have to spend invocations on, random useful bonuses that mostly increase as you get more feats, DR/ Not getting through this ....
Plus, warlocks don't really have much they can use for exceedingly useful feats anyway, so your getting a better deal than say, weapon focus (eldritch blast).
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Maybe this is the only true fix for spellcasting, making people scared of using it.
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For glavelock's, the heritage feats are definitely worth it.
+1 to your invocations, various spell like abilities that you now don't have to spend invocations on, random useful bonuses that mostly increase as you get more feats, DR/ Not getting through this ....
Plus, warlocks don't really have much they can use for exceedingly useful feats anyway, so your getting a better deal than say, weapon focus (eldritch blast).
I'd personally take Mortalbane as much as I possibly can, rather than taking the heritage feats.
I don't think this is legal unless you somehow make yourself undead first (for spellstitched template), and that brings up it's own issues. Also, if I were a DMing a game for this build I'd immediately bomb your class features for True Necromancer due to you having lost access to the Death domain (by becoming an ex-cleric).
-X
and that is why the necropolitan template was created.
but yeah, its probably not legal. i just brought it up because i thought it could give the OP some useful dual progression ideas.
Flee the Scene is very decent, but a Fell Flight Warlock rarely runs into situations where someone is heavily beating up on them anyways, so I wouldn't say it's a must. Second-best defensive invocation on Lesser, for sure, but Fell Flight is better.
hm, well, i would say they tie. personally, i like Flee the Scene because i just happen to prefer Dimension door like effects. but hey, thats just my opinion, and there is nothing saying you cant get both.
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It's too bad really that Flee the Scene has short range. If it gave you a use of the real Dimension Door, it'd always be a must. But short range means it doesn't get you much further than a move action so the primary use of it is the Major Image.
yeah, but i suppose to make it have a longer range they would have had to bump it up a grade.
EDIT:
wait, you mean close range? because at the level you reach it thats 55 feet a round, and you are able to still use EB. although fly is nice, 55 feet compared to 30 feet [in general] i would personally go with the 55 feet. but, i suppose you could get FF at level 8.
EDIT:
wait, you mean close range? because at the level you reach it thats 55 feet a round, and you are able to still use EB. although fly is nice, 55 feet compared to 30 feet [in general] i would personally go with the 55 feet. but, i suppose you could get FF at level 8.
Short Range = 25ft. + 5ft./2 levels, so it's mere 40ft. on level 6. Also, Dimension Door is a standard action so you can't use Eldritch Blast on the same round (with Fell Flight, you can use your move actions to stay out of reach and blast with standards), and you can't take any actions after using it [as per Dimension Door description] so there's even no way around it.
And you can never leave ground without Fell Flight. Flee the Scene is a decent escape power, but not something you want to use constantly. Still not bad, but definitely not a primary defensive means as it can't be used with offense (Fell Flight can, and even qualifies you for Flyby Attack [MM], which in turn means you can swoop in, Blast/Invoke, and swoop out thus doing attacks while staying out of similarly reached opponents' range. Also good for firing through small openings and getting out before others return fire and the like).
You're entitled to your opinion of course - just getting the abilities of both invocations straight. Fell Flight wins out in my book; certain Warlock in our party didn't really get hit more than ten times from the whole level 6-14 path.
Short Range = 25ft. + 5ft./2 levels, so it's mere 40ft. on level 6. Also, Dimension Door is a standard action so you can't use Eldritch Blast on the same round (with Fell Flight, you can use your move actions to stay out of reach and blast with standards), and you can't take any actions after using it [as per Dimension Door description] so there's even no way around it.
ah, i didnt see that. that changes a lot.
[/quote]And you can never leave ground without Fell Flight. Flee the Scene is a decent escape power, but not something you want to use constantly. Still not bad, but definitely not a primary defensive means as it can't be used with offense (Fell Flight can, and even qualifies you for Flyby Attack [MM], which in turn means you can swoop in, Blast/Invoke, and swoop out thus doing attacks while staying out of similarly reached opponents' range. Also good for firing through small openings and getting out before others return fire and the like).[/quote]
hm, well, these are good points.
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You're entitled to your opinion of course - just getting the abilities of both invocations straight. Fell Flight wins out in my book; certain Warlock in our party didn't really get hit more than ten times from the whole level 6-14 path.
yeah, that is true i suppose. thank you for changing my mind if i ever get to play a Warlock
Eh, I have no respect for demons. The whole "embodiment of CE" translates to "embodiment of being a psychotic moron who can't stick to a grocery list, let alone a plan".
Something this thread seems to have missed: the Extra Invocation feat (CAr, p. 79). Warlocks don't get to learn too many of their own invocations, and having more spell-like abilities that you can use ad nauseum is never a bad thing. Warlocks are one of the most feat-starved classes in the game, so picking them can be extremely difficult, but I find that using them to expand on your repertoire of limitlessly cast-able spell-like abilities is as good as anything else.
And another thing. Not that I would necessarily recommend it over many of the other possible feats one could take as a warlock, but people don't tend to think about feats like Ability Focus (Eldritch Blast) in the long haul. It's only a +1 to hit, but if you're going to be using your EB as your primary attack (and if you're not, then why are you playing a warlock?), those +1's really start to add up over the course of a campaign. Think of it this way: if you don't take it, then every time you miss a to-hit roll by 1, you're going to regret it. Not saying that happens TOO often, but it's still a bonus you pretty much are going to constantly be taking advantage of. Wizards and sorcerers don't get as much out of spell focus feats, because they have to take them each school of magic individually, and the only way that makes sense is if you cast pretty much exclusively from that school. However, fighters and monks do extremely well by taking the Weapon Focus feat for their weapon of choice, precisely because they get so much use out of it. Again, I'm not saying it's a must-have, but one should really think of it as an investment that pays off most if taken early on.
Two other good feats to take early on are Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot, as you're probably going to be firing into the fray a LOT. Alternatively, if you're planning to make heavy use of Eldritch Glaive, check to see if your DM will allow Weapon Finesse to apply to it. There's some debate about it, but in my opinion, since the glaive utilizes melee touch attacks instead of standard melee strikes, it should benefit from a feat that lets you substitute striking agility for swinging strength.
As for Flee the Scene vs. Fell Flight, I actually typically take BOTH, but this is why I would recommend taking Extra Invocation feats. Flee the Scene is certainly the less useful of the two, but one should never dismiss the utility of limitless, short-range teleportation. Just a few examples: infiltrating a fortress by teleporting from one sentry's blind spot to another, to another, to another, etc.; getting the entire party through a wall or set of bars by ferrying them over multiple jumps; bypassing multiple traps over the course of an entire dungeon; or utilizing it each round in a chase to more than double your movement speed. Being an effective warlock means making creative use of your limited set of talents.
Another goody I like to pick up is the Eldritch Spear blast shape. Fell Flight isn't nearly as good when you have to stay 30 feet from the ground to attack. Increasing that range to 250 feet means you're well out of range of any surface-to-air retaliation an archer (or even worse, a mage) might be packing. Also, Baleful Utterance is oft-overlooked. Most people say it's useful at low levels, but not so much at higher ones, and while it is certainly less useful when your enemies are wield un-shatterable magic weapons, you can still do tricky things like shatter the chain holding up the chandelier above their heads. Being able to break any mundane object in the immediate vicinity with a word isn't an ability one should give up lightly.
I'll say it again: a warlock needs to be creative and crafty with his invocations, and having more of them just increases your options if you're good at finding ways to use them. To come full circle then, seriously consider taking Extra Invocation (but only at later levels for obvious reasons). It gives you more of what you do best.
Your feat choices early on can help shape what you do.
-the Fey Heritage feats from...CMage, I think, are really nice. With the full suite, you wind up with a rather impressive boost to your DR, Some very useful SLAs, and some misc. bonuses to things. (fey legacy saved my feylock's life...a lot)
-Fiendish Heritage, from the same book also has some similar goodies, but I don't like them quite so much.
-There's a series of feats from Drow of the Underdark that mesh very well with sneakier types of warlocks but they're keyed off of the Darkness invocation.
-binder feats(if you take all of them) from Tome of Magic can grant you a vestige slot that can grant a number of very useful abilities.
binder feats(if you take all of them) from Tome of Magic can grant you a vestige slot that can grant a number of very useful abilities.
Agreed, but a single-level dip in the Binder class itself and one feat (Improved Binding) gives you access to a wider array of vestiges and abilities (although only of 2nd level). Soul Binding is an immensely useful ability for any spellcaster (virtually any character at all, really); it's a shame WotC never came out with an official Warlock/Binder prestige class—particularly since they both involve pacts with otherworldly entities.
Anyone know of a user-generated PrC along these lines? Preferably something semi-official or at least play-tested....
Whatever options you choose you're going to be feat and invokation starved.
Things to keep in mind
- Humans (and a few other races) give you an extra feat
- You only get limitied opportunities to swap your invokations so only choose one of each type which you intend to upgrade. This is why I normally avoid things like Summon Swarm: its great at low level, but soon becomes worthless.
- Eldritch Spear is pretty much essential but you can buy it for a feat at Warlock 6 (Extra Invokation)
- Essences: Short of Vitreolic Blast these are fairly naff and so I normally avoid them. However I did find that the two Lesser ones which give a level 4 spell equivelence were essentail in one combat recently since the opposition threw up a Minor Globe. If you expect these to work then take Ability Focus for the +2 DC, otherwsie don't bother you are short of feats after all.
- Heratage Feats: The ones to go for are the level 9 SLAs. These give you more options, which is something Warlocks lack.
- Multiclassing
- If you want to take Quicken SLA(EB) as soon as possible (12th) then you must have Warlock 10, which means that you can only dip two other levels prior to this point.
- Consider Half Fey (or similiar) rather than Heratage Feats. This gives you more SLAs for more flexibility. This costs two levels but since Half Fey get flight you free up a Lesser Invokation.
- You can dip Scout effectively; there are two optimal choices.
- One level gives you skill points and +1d6 damage whenever you move.
- Five levels allow you to take the Improved Skirmish feat for +4d6 damage, and other goodies besides
- It might be tempting to Dip Fighter for the feats, unfortunatley there aren't many useful Fighter Feats for Warlocks.
Ring of Evasion means never playing a monk with monk levels again. There is just no reason to dip that stuff. I know we're all about using every part of the buffalo here, but can we just admit that it's inedible?
Last edited by Roland St. Jude : 06-22-2010 at 08:13 AM.
Increasing that range to 250 feet means you're well out of range of any surface-to-air retaliation an archer
That's easily within range of even a normal shortbow.
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