To deny the hyper-advanced technology already present from the Sovices... It's just silly. It may take place in a fantasy world, but it still has sci-fi elelments. As previously mentioned, the Pern series qualifies as Science-Fantasy and yet seems to have little to do with science, so a fantasy series with LOTS to do with technology MUST qualify.
Last edited by Darklord Bright : 05-30-2009 at 09:56 AM.
It has no elements of science fiction other than the advanced technology.
No extraterrestrials, no spaceships, does not happen in the future, does not speculate on the future of science, could not happen in any way in reality, ergo: fantasy.
It has no elements of science fiction other than the advanced technology.
No extraterrestrials, no spaceships, does not happen in the future, does not speculate on the future of science, could not happen in any way in reality, ergo: fantasy.
Sci-Fi does not have to have all of those things. If I recall, there WERE spaceships in an FFF comic not long ago, they looked like giant whales. Some sci-fis don't even have space travel.
Edit: That being said, I do not believe it is a purebred of either genre.
Last edited by Darklord Bright : 05-30-2009 at 09:59 AM.
Holy hell. If you could split atoms like you split hairs you could power a country on fission energy.
It has robots and spaceships. That's not science fiction enough?
Yeah, I probably could. But I'm not Dr. Manhatten yet.
Star Wars has WWII dogfights, storylines ripped straight from Arthurian legends, swordfighting, and magic. It's not Science Fiction, there is no solid grounding in science anywhere in the series.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless
It's set in a futuristic world with advanced science, robots and laser guns, it's a freaking sci-fi fantasy god damn it!
It was intended to be Sci-Fi, but dragons, vampires and mages turned up in the first few comics, so the Sci-Fi part went out the window.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darklord Bright
Sci-Fi does not have to have all of those things. If I recall, there WERE spaceships in an FFF comic not long ago, they looked like giant whales. Some sci-fis don't even have space travel.
Nameless and MM were commenting on P3, which hasn't featured spaceships yet. It's assumed they're there, Fort Longcat was built in that era for example, but we haven't shown any in comic.
I should make a P3 comic one of these days. I have the opportunity while we're waiting on Lying to make a FFF one.
Sci-Fi does not have to have all of those things. If I recall, there WERE spaceships in an FFF comic not long ago, they looked like giant whales. Some sci-fis don't even have space travel.
Edit: That being said, I do not believe it is a purebred of either genre.
Fantasy has magic. Science fiction has science and no magic (it could possibly happen in the real future).
Nameless and MM were commenting on P3, which hasn't featured spaceships yet. It's assumed they're there, Fort Longcat was built in that era for example, but we haven't shown any in comic.
Ah, I see. I misunderstood. Still, I'm looking for the comic I was referencing to be sure I actually saw it. It was either MMs or Lying's.
I still don't agree that it's a pure fantasy though. It's certainly not sci-fi, but it's also not fantasy. Also, the Science = scifi, Magic = Fantasy thing is a fallacy if ever I've heard one. If a Science fiction had an alien race that obviously used magic, it would still be science fiction. If a fantasy used an alien race invasion as a plotline, it'd probably still be fantasy. The key is not to go into depth about the other element. You can still have them there, taking a technical 'middle ground' whilst presenting yourself as being on one side or the other.
Edit: Would Stargate become fantasy if the gate was a magical travel device like TJH intead of a Wormhole-manipulator-doohicky? I'm tempted to say yes, given that it would probably become a modern fantasy, but what if the planets were still planets and the aliens were still aliens?
Last edited by Darklord Bright : 05-30-2009 at 10:15 AM.
I still don't agree that it's a pure fantasy though. It's certainly not sci-fi, but it's also not fantasy. Also, the Science = scifi, Magic = Fantasy thing is a fallacy if ever I've heard one. If a Science fiction had an alien race that obviously used magic, it would still be science fiction. If a fantasy used an alien race invasion as a plotline, it'd probably still be fantasy. The key is not to go into depth about the other element. You can still have them there, taking a technical 'middle ground' whilst presenting yourself as being on one side or the other.
So we can call it Science Fiction even if it doesn't include science ?
In my book, both of these examples would be fantasy for reasons I have already mentioned.
So we can call it Science Fiction even if it doesn't include science ?
In my book, both of these examples would be fantasy for reasons I have already mentioned.
No, but you CAN call it science fiction if it contains Science as a prevailant theme with Magic as a small detail of a single alien race or other such thing. I never said otherwise. I merely said that the presence of science does not deny the presence of magic, or visa versa.
I still don't agree that it's a pure fantasy though. It's certainly not sci-fi, but it's also not fantasy. Also, the Science = scifi, Magic = Fantasy thing is a fallacy if ever I've heard one. If a Science fiction had an alien race that obviously used magic, it would still be science fiction. If a fantasy used an alien race invasion as a plotline, it'd probably still be fantasy. The key is not to go into depth about the other element. You can still have them there, taking a technical 'middle ground' whilst presenting yourself as being on one side or the other.
Edit: Would Stargate become fantasy if the gate was a magical travel device like TJH intead of a Wormhole-manipulator-doohicky? I'm tempted to say yes, given that it would probably become a modern fantasy, but what if the planets were still planets and the aliens were still aliens?
You do know that there's been made international rules for what is needed for something to be science fiction don't you (there''s made rules like this for all genres) They state that science fiction has to be in the future of the time it was wrote and a possible one (given the beliefs of the tie of course, else most of the stuff would change genre because it's proven wrong) so nope none of this could be Science fiction (magic is impossible)
I can't remember what fantasy needs but I'm pretty sure aliens are allowed (I think that there's something with mystical/magical creatures that aliens can be, like in EGS)
You do know that there's been made international rules for what is needed for something to be science fiction don't you (there''s made rules like this for all genres) They state that science fiction has to be in the future of the time it was wrote and a possible one (given the beliefs of the tie of course, else most of the stuff would change genre because it's proven wrong) so nope none of this could be Science fiction (magic is impossible)
I can't remember what fantasy needs but I'm pretty sure aliens are allowed (I think that there's something with mystical/magical creatures that aliens can be, like in EGS)
I was not aware there were 'Rules' for fiction. In spite, I may have to go and see how many genres I can mix together and see how many heads I can make explode trying to work out what mix it is.
And no, it doesn't really matter. I just have this awful twitching need to defend my point if it is challanged.
Last edited by Darklord Bright : 05-30-2009 at 10:30 AM.
EDIT: These spaceships can use FTL in a magical corridor that contains hell and heaven, I don't think they're science fiction.
FTL is generally sketchy when you define elements of hard science fiction. It's fantasy, but generally allowed as a plot device, otherwise interstellar travel would be infeasible.
Hyperspace, though, is generally considered on the soft side.
Quote:
Originally Posted by -skimmer-
I'm sure they did:
Spoiler
-snip-
Ah yes, I'd forgotten the incident with the "Plotaporter". Which, despite P3 being a prequel to F3, doesn't constitute time travel for some reason.
I'm not sure as to the canonicity of that entire arc, what with the "richest person in the whole universe" thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darklord Bright
If a Science fiction had an alien race that obviously used magic, it would still be science fiction. If a fantasy used an alien race invasion as a plotline, it'd probably still be fantasy. The key is not to go into depth about the other element. You can still have them there, taking a technical 'middle ground' whilst presenting yourself as being on one side or the other.
If they used magic as in "tapping into the cosmic forces", then it would be a fantasy element, and so the genre would be Science Fantasy. If they used "magic" with the aid of technological marvels, then it would be Sci-Fi.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darklord Bright
Would Stargate become fantasy if the gate was a magical travel device like TJH intead of a Wormhole-manipulator-doohicky? I'm tempted to say yes, given that it would probably become a modern fantasy, but what if the planets were still planets and the aliens were still aliens?
Stargate already presents the gate as a magical device. Do they have any understanding of how it works? Could they build their own? It's Clarke's third law in action.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keveak
You do know that there's been made international rules for what is needed for something to be science fiction don't you (there''s made rules like this for all genres)
I'm going to be very doubtful of this unless you can cite them.
I think now I see the problem with genre 'rules'. There is no way of telling to what extent you can take them each way before the genre changes.
(And a quick check of 'international fiction genre rules' brings up many hits detailing how hard it is to tell what classifies as what genre, so a deal of skepticism is won by me as well.)
It was intended to be Sci-Fi, but dragons, vampires and mages turned up in the first few comics, so the Sci-Fi part went out the window.
It does have spaceships as Skimmer pointed out.
So as I said it's a sci-fi fantasy.
And even though that's not exactly what sci-fi fantasy means, I don't care.
It does have spaceships as Skimmer pointed out.
So as I said it's a sci-fi fantasy.
And even though that's not exactly what sci-fi fantasy means, I don't care.
From the descriptions I've seen, these plots are exactly that, but I'm starting to care less and less about genre classifications as this conversation drags on.
Why limit myself to a 'Genre'? Why work within the bounds set for me when writing, for me, exemplifies the desire to break free from those bounds? Do the impossible just to see if I can?
...I'm going to go write a story now.
Last edited by Darklord Bright : 05-30-2009 at 10:48 AM.
I'm going to be very doubtful of this unless you can cite them.
Ask your English teacher or something, I've only heard them mentioned once (it's part of basic danish education to know the genres and what they generally are not why) but I know that they are part of some official rules for literature (I believe it's for stuff like "the years best Scifi book" awards so you are sure it qualifies for it, or maybe it's just how governments are) whether or not we need to use them is up to us, they only matter if we want to have it official (we could call it scifi but they might say fantasy).
EDIT:
@Bright: I never work by genre, I think oof genre as something you say it is when done (like I could start a story with scifi and later add magic if I wanned)
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