[4e] Exalted Conversion

Tequila Sunrise · 09-13-2009, 10:53 AM

That's right, I'll be using 4e D&D rules to run Exalted!

*Waits for gasping, muttering and jeering to die down.*

Now I'm not an Exalted expert, and this conversion isn't intended to reflect all the canonical details of the Exalted universe. So if it helps, just think of this as a generic D&D homebrew project. Feel free to critique, use the material for inspiration in your own game, or just lurk. To see the pdf version, click here.

Relevant House Rules:
1. Being solar exalts, each PC has an anima banner on their forehead. Normally it's invisible, but when a PC uses an encounter power it creates dim light as a burst 5. When a PC uses a daily power it creates bright light as a burst 10. (Unlike in standard Exalted games, I don't want this to severely hamper stealth so I think I'll make exceptions when a PC uses explicitly stealthy powers.) PCs can also "turn on" their anima banners at will in order to create light as if they were using an encounter or daily power.
2. I don't use ability scores; players will start with the +0, +0, +1, +1, +2, +3 array to assign to their abilities. Racial modifiers are +1 instead of +2.
3. As a human-centric game, only humans are allowed as a PC race. Humans get a second +1 stat boost; you can't stack them to get a +2. Each PC knows Common plus one regional language.
4. Ignore power source fluff; as solar exalts, PCs draw their awesome powers from their own personal essence channeled through their animas.
5. Superior weapons are encouraged. I don't have an actual rule about this; I'll just point out how awesome they are to my players. Exalted is partly anime-inspired, so wacky weapons fit in perfectly!
6. The 1/2 level standard will be replaced with the following rules, in regards to combat stats but not skills. At most levels beyond 1st, PCs get +1 to all attacks and defenses. Exceptions include 6th, 16th and 26th, when PCs add +1 to two abilities of their choice, and 11th and 21st, when PCs add +1 to all their abilities. At those five levels, PCs only get +1 AC if they wear heavy armor. (This rule is to make up for the fact that enhancement bonuses don't exist in my game, and to fix the game's math glitch.)

Okay, on to the "monsters":

The Mortals: These guys exist only in the heroic tier.

Spoiler

The Dragon-Bloods: For those of you not familiar with Exalted, these guys aren't actually dragon-like at all; they're just elementally-themed. Anyway I invented a new type of monster, the goon, for these guys because they're supposed to be more powerful than mortals but much less powerful than solar exalts [PCs]. Goons are worth half the XP of a standard monster; they have half HP, deal minion damage, have no encounter powers, but have slightly better effects than minions. In the case of dragon-bloods, I gave them each an ally-boosting aura.

Spoiler

The Death Knights

Spoiler

JerryMcJerrison · 09-13-2009, 11:49 AM

I don't really have anything to add... but I just wanted to say that not 5 minutes ago I was pondering the exact opposite of what you're pondering. The first time my players cause a lot of collateral damage (shouldn't take long, not when the first major conflict is going to be a giant battle crab the size of the Juggernaut) soon afterwards they're going to be engaged by a 4th Edition characters yelling about how Pelor's might will strike them down.

The Rose Dragon · 09-13-2009, 12:21 PM

Know that for your transgressions against the Unconquered Sun and the rest of the Celestines, your hun shall never find Lethe nor Oblivion.

Tequila Sunrise · 09-13-2009, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Rose Dragon

Know that for your transgressions against the Unconquered Sun and the rest of the Celestines, your hun shall never find Lethe nor Oblivion.

You'll never take Atila from me!

Yakk · 09-14-2009, 08:25 AM

I don't think that a split between the kinds of exalt needs reflect the kind of monster.

A very powerful dragon-blooded could be a level 3 solo opponent, or a level 9 elite opponent, or a level 14 normal opponent, or a level 20 minion. Which mechanics you use for that very powerful dragon-blooded opponent would depend on what dramatic use the dragon-blooded is being put to.

Instead of splitting opponents by type of monster, opponents should be split by what tiers they are considered worthy opponents.

New solar players (fresh exalts) can start out at level 1 PCs, and gain levels from there. Using D&D advancement speed at 4 encounters/day, they are only 2 months(!) away from being level 30 -- that more than reflects "solars have insane potential".

The biggest changes I'd make is maybe use some "attributes increase faster, magic items slower" rules, maybe hand out more of the PHB3 skill powers, and have high-DC skill checks scale in more crazy ways.

Quote:

6. The 1/2 level standard will be replaced with the following rules, in regards to combat stats but not skills. At most levels beyond 1st, PCs get +1 to all attacks and defenses. Exceptions include 6th, 16th and 26th, when PCs add +1 to two abilities of their choice, and 11th and 21st, when PCs add +1 to all their abilities. At those five levels, PCs only get +1 AC if they wear heavy armor. (This rule is to make up for the fact that enhancement bonuses don't exist in my game, and to fix the game's math glitch.)

Careful, +1 to all at almost every level is too fast. It also makes the math more complex than +1/2 level.

More later.

...

Keep the "attributes are modifiers".

At 4/14/24 add +1 to three modifiers.
At 8/18/28 add +2 to two modifiers and +1 to two others.
At 11/21 add +1 to all modifiers.

New modifiers:
+11/+11/+8/+5/+2/+2
Standard D&D modifiers from leveling:
+4/+4/+1/+1/+1
Difference:
+7/+7/+7/+3/+1/+1

Magic items are a +6 gap. Masterwork/Feat patches is a ~+3 gap.

That is a +9 gap. Which leaves +2 unaccounted for.

Roll that +2 into magic items.

A magic tool adds +1 to hit or +1 to AC or +1 to NADs.
A legendary magic tool adds +2 to hit or +2 to AC or +2 to NADs.

Allow characters to add 1/2 their Strength or Constitution modifier to their AC (round down) instead of their Dex/Int, in or out of heavy armor (in light or no, it is instead of dex/int). This fills the gap that heavy armor left behind.

The only big remaining hole is "secondary" modifiers to powers. Powers that add more than 1 attribute to damage are now better under the above system, or that do things like "add int to someone else's attack roll". You could just ignore it -- or you could change it to "1/2 attribute modifier +2" or the like.

But your system also works.

Tequila Sunrise · 09-14-2009, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yakk

The biggest changes I'd make is maybe use some "attributes increase faster, magic items slower" rules, maybe hand out more of the PHB3 skill powers, and have high-DC skill checks scale in more crazy ways.

PHB3 is out already? I'm so out of the loop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yakk

Careful, +1 to all at almost every level is too fast. It also makes the math more complex than +1/2 level.

Keep in mind that there are no enhancement bonuses. And though I didn't mention it, I'm very strict about feats that add to attacks or defenses -- I don't even allow Armor Spec, let alone Expertise and NAD boosters. Effectively my PCs get the same +1 to everything per level that monsters get.

Indon · 09-15-2009, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tequila Sunrise

ThaRelevant House Rules:
1. Being solar exalts, each PC has an anima banner on their forehead. Normally it's invisible, but when a PC uses an encounter power it creates dim light as a close blast 3. When a PC uses a daily power it creates bright light as a close blast 5. (Unlike in standard Exalted games, I don't want this to severely hamper stealth so I think I'll make exceptions when a PC uses explicitly stealthy powers.) PCs can also "turn on" their anima banners at will in order to create light as if they were using an encounter or daily power.

A few points on this.

First, animas are basically a type of halo. I'd make the light a burst, not a blast.

Secondly, Dragon-Blood animas can deal damage (because their auras manifest as literally raging elements, fire, shards of ice, etc). Just an FYI, in case you're thinking of any ideas for Solo DB abilities - ongoing damage auras could work just fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tequila Sunrise

6. The 1/2 level standard will be replaced with the following rules, in regards to combat stats but not skills. At most levels beyond 1st, PCs get +1 to all attacks and defenses. Exceptions include 6th, 16th and 26th, when PCs add +1 to two abilities of their choice, and 11th and 21st, when PCs add +1 to all their abilities. At those five levels, PCs only get +1 AC if they wear heavy armor. (This rule is to make up for the fact that enhancement bonuses don't exist in my game, and to fix the game's math glitch.)

Note also that Exalts aren't just awesome at combat - they're almost always awesome out of combat, even without trying (you have to really specialize in Exalted to be bad out of combat).

You might want an ability houserule to reflect that.

horngeek · 09-15-2009, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Rose Dragon

Know that for your transgressions against the Unconquered Sun and the rest of the Celestines, your hun shall never find Lethe nor Oblivion.

I agree here. Converting Exalted into 4e can't really end well.

Yakk · 09-15-2009, 04:41 PM

Another flaw with your system is that it takes the already dead levels of 4/8/14/18/24/28 and makes them more dead.

So to reflect the "utility awesomeness" of exalts, one approach would be to poach the PHB3 skill powers.

There are skill power for level 2, 6, 10, 16, and 22.

Hand out skill powers at level 1, 4, 6, 8, 12, 14, 18, 20, 24, 28. With the exception of the level 1 skill power (which is picked from 2nd level utility powers), the skill power you gain is of that level or lower.

You end up with 3 level 2 skill powers, and 2 level 6, 10, 16 and 22 skill powers.

It also does something small to help make up for the 'holes' at 4/8/14/18/24/28 you have in your progression.

I still find your "gain +1 modifiers, except when I give you something else that gives you +1" very clunky. It will work, but it is very clunky. The 4e system where PCs had a myriad of ways to get their defence/attack/etc modifiers increased that "just happened" to hit +1 per level is a quite neat feature of 4e -- players get a mechanical system to play with when building characters, and the game remains balanced.

Yours is ... well, sort of like removing the paint on a car. Sure, it still drives, but... :)

This is, however, a matter of taste.

(And yes, I agree that the expertise feats should be exiled -- they are blatantly too good.)

Waargh! · 09-15-2009, 05:18 PM

I don't really see a need to tweak the game mechanics that are supposingly already balanced.
I prefer the add stuff and ban stuff aproach.

For example,
-you say superior weapons are encouraged. I would give one superior weapon proficiency instead of a bonus feat to humans.
-humans are the only race. You do well to give them a +2 on stats, since most classes use 2 stats. You could also give them more choices. Instead of +1 on defenses choose one defense and choose a +2 boost on a skill.

Stuff to add,
-More superior weapons. Feats that specialize on superior weapons unique abilities. Like 19-20 critical when firing with a superior crossbow. Or -2 on attacks for an extra [W] when using a huge spiked hammer. That will give more variety on attacks which is really good.
-More powers. Instead of replacing powers with skill powers, you can just take skill powers for free, as already noted
-Add more daily powers, but only use one per encounter. This won't unbalance the game, just make characters be awesome more than once per day.
-Optional class features
-Paragon/Epic paths

I believe you want characters not to depend on weapons and armors. Remove enchantment as you do. Add that to attack/defenses.
+1 on 1-5
+2 on 6-10
etc etc
If you still use masterwork armors then there will be absolutely no need for enchantment bonuses.
Adding more character daily powers can also replace weapon daily powers.

They are awesome outside the battle? Tweak the skills so you can do more awesome things. Like walking on walls with a high Acrobatic skill check.

Tequila Sunrise · 09-15-2009, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indon

First, animas are basically a type of halo. I'd make the light a burst, not a blast.

Really? The illustrations and descriptions seem to depict animas as flashlight effects. I'll take you word for it though; I haven't studied this stuff in detail.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indon

Secondly, Dragon-Blood animas can deal damage (because their auras manifest as literally raging elements, fire, shards of ice, etc). Just an FYI, in case you're thinking of any ideas for Solo DB abilities - ongoing damage auras could work just fine.

If I ever turn DBs into solos, I'll definitely do that. Not sure if I ever will though: I like the consistency of assigning a monster type to a monster 'rank' (minion, normal, solo, etc.). It's probably the simulationist in me, but does anyone else find monsters with similar in-game origins but with different 'ranks' weird? This is one of the reasons I'm psyched about this Exalted conversions; it gives me the opportunity to make monsters a bit more consistent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yakk

So to reflect the "utility awesomeness" of exalts, one approach would be to poach the PHB3 skill powers.

If I can get my hands on a PHB3, I'll definitely check out those skill powers. They sound great.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yakk

I still find your "gain +1 modifiers, except when I give you something else that gives you +1" very clunky. It will work, but it is very clunky. The 4e system where PCs had a myriad of ways to get their defence/attack/etc modifiers increased that "just happened" to hit +1 per level is a quite neat feature of 4e -- players get a mechanical system to play with when building characters, and the game remains balanced.

Yours is ... well, sort of like removing the paint on a car. Sure, it still drives, but... :)

This is, however, a matter of taste.

Yeah, definitely a matter of taste. The RAW way of acquiring bonuses is like those overly verbose math equations that teachers made you do in school; they could have been ten times easier but she wanted you to suffer through learning the math rules. Except now it's ten years later, I've learned the rules, but I'm still using this overbearing equation that doesn't even quite work for nothing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waargh!

you say superior weapons are encouraged. I would give one superior weapon proficiency instead of a bonus feat to humans.

Ah, but what about characters who don't use weapons? I suppose I could come up with 'superior implements.'

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waargh!

More superior weapons.

I have a standing offer to invent new superiors if one doesn't exist to match a character's style, but I should probably sit down and write out a bunch of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waargh!

I believe you want characters not to depend on weapons and armors. Remove enchantment as you do. Add that to attack/defenses.

I don't allow masterwork armors; my house rule takes care of those bonuses plus all the others that PCs need.

I like a lot of your suggestions, but I don't want to overwhelm my players with options; two of them take literally hours just to make a 1st level character. *sigh*

Indon · 09-16-2009, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tequila Sunrise

Really? The illustrations and descriptions seem to depict animas as flashlight effects. I'll take you word for it though; I haven't studied this stuff in detail.

At lower levels of power expenditure, yes.

At higher levels, animas look more like this, and at the highest levels they manifest like the combat scene here.

Tequila Sunrise · 09-16-2009, 05:26 PM

In the interest of following Waaargh!'s advice, I've compiled the existing superior weapons, made a couple of changes, added seven superior implements and a couple of new weapons here. I'd appreciate help with the implements: I've assigned what I think are cool properties to five of them, but can't think of anything for the other two -- the Silver Symbol and the Darkwood Totem.

Here's the rundown if you don't like pdfs:

Bloodiron Dagger: Brutal 1 (works for both implement and weapon powers)
Crystal Orb: User can add 2 squares to area powers and 5 squares to ranged powers
Darkwood Staff: Defensive
Jade Wand: Grants +1 prof. bonus to implement powers
Ivory Rod: High Crit
Silver Symbol: ???
Darkwood Totem: ???