2/28/2013 - Update on Thumb
12/31/2012 - There's a New Comic
12/12/2012 - The "Lost" Holiday Ornament (and Child's Play)
11/26/2012 - Leftover OOTS Swag on Sale (+Thumb Report)
Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)

Order of the Stick 889 Get Real
Erfworld 163 The End of Book One
Erfworld Now at Erfworld.com!
RSS Feeds: OOTS

The Duke's Wolf, Part Four by Amber E. Scott
The Duke's Wolf, Part Three by Amber E. Scott
The Duke's Wolf, Part Two by Amber E. Scott

The New World, Part 9: Barbarians by Rich Burlew
The New World, Part 8: Gnomes by Rich Burlew
The New World, Part 7: Names and Cultures by Rich Burlew
Looking for the Gaming Articles?

 



Welcome back! Be sure you have read and understand the Forum Rules.


Go Back   Giant in the Playground Forums > Comics > Arts and Crafts
Register FAQ Members List Mark Forums Read End

Arts and Crafts The place to talk about stick figure avatars, graphic design, fan art, or any application of the visual arts and creative writing--or just to show off your latest masterwork!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-28-2009, 08:39 PM   Top  -  End  -  #1
Jimor
Bugbear in the Playground
 
BlueKnightGuy
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: 
Northern California
Gender: Male
Default Playground Writers Workshop (Read 1st Post)

In Banter there was some discussion about starting a writing workshop here in the playground, and since I've been thinking about this for a while and how to make it work, I thought I'd go ahead and take the initiative.

The Rules

A scheduled workshop is very tricky to pull off online or in real life, so I'm modeling the basic structure on a on online workshop called Critters. There's no deadlines. Basically, if you want critiques, you have to give some first. To keep things simple here, there is one overall Rule:

Before posting a story, give 3 critiques to other people.

This applies for each work you wish to post. If you've given your 3 critiques, have posted your story and gotten reviews for it, and now want to post another, go find 3 more stories to critique first.

Since it's clearly impossible to critique stories that aren't here yet, there is a one-time exception for the first 8 members to post a story. Once those 1st 8 have been posted, if you want to add your own, you must go through them and find 3 to critique first. For those first 8, it's not a free ride. If you want to post a 2nd story, you still owe 3 critiques for #1, plus 3 more before you can post #2. Got it?

As of 9/25/09, the open slots for free posting of a story are closed. Please post 3 critiques now before posting new stories per the rules above. A big thanks for everybody who helped get this started.

You can stockpile your critiques. If you do 6 before posting any stories, then you can post 2 whenever you like. Feel free to always do extra, or even to join if you just want to critique only, the more points of view provided for each work, the more the author has to work with.

Signing Up.

This is simple. If you wish to join the workshop, simply find a story, write up a critique, and post it. I will add your name to the Roster (in post #2), and keep track of everybody's stories and critiques. When you see that your critique count has reached 3, feel free to post your writing whenever you wish.

What counts as a critique?

First, be polite.

I'm not going to get picky about "how much" is in the critique unless people start exploiting the format by obviously trying to say as little as possible just to up their critique count before posting their own work. Remember that analyzing other people's writing is in most cases, more enlightening than hearing what others say about your own work.

So be as helpful as you can within your abilities. Not everybody has a Masters Degree in English literature, so just be honest with your reactions, both negative and positive. If spotting typos and grammar errors is your strength, go with that, if characters are your forte, talk about that.

Also use it as an opportunity to look at features of that story that you're working on in your own writing. Talking about how well somebody has created the background to a world, for example, may not be "fixing" anything, but it not only helps you understand the techniques they used to make it good, you're pointing out tips that other people can use themselves.

Anyway, I'll have a 3rd post in the thread where I'll collect workshop advice and tips. Just be aware that saying, "This is very good!" or "I don't like horror stories, so I couldn't get into it." isn't going to cut it.

Posting Stories.

First, remember that GITP Forum rules are always in effect. No banned words, no real world religion, no politics, no explicit sexual material, etc. What this workshop provides, however, is a known pool of people you know are willing to help, so feel free to ask if anybody wishes to read via PM or e-mail if your work contains those elements that are against forum rules.

To keep things simple, none of those stories or critiques will count towards official workshop numbers. Courtesy and practicalities will lean towards you if people see you've been helpful to others on the board, however, so keep that in mind when you ask.

Post your story title, the genre you feel it fits within, and if you have it, a word count at the beginning of your post. If there are particular issues you'd like critiques to address, go ahead and mention them, just realize that this doesn't obligate people to talk about them.

Post the story within spoiler tags.

The work does not have to be a complete story, it can be an excerpt from a larger piece. Story beginnings are fine, but be very careful because a reader can't really get an idea of whether it works or not without knowing where it eventually goes, so if all you do is post story beginnings, you're probably wasting everybody's time.

After questions about it, a couple of clarification. For novel excerpts, whatever you can fit within a single post, which is approximately 8000 words, will count as a single submission. You can do less in a post, but the 3 critiques per submission rule applies either way.

If a complete short story is longer than a single post, go ahead and use 2 (or more) consecutive messages to post it, this will count as 1 submission. However, if you post the first half now to get some feedback, then next week post the 2nd half, that will count as 2 submissions and you'll need 6 overall critiques to do that.

Posting Critiques.

A good format for the critiques will probably evolve over time, so do what feels right to you for now, but to help me keep track, please start your official critique posts like this:

Critique: "My Favorite Story" by WriterName. Then put the critique in a spoiler. Also, if you do multiple critiques at the same time, go ahead and put them all into the same post.

Discussing other critiques is fine and can be helpful in defining terms and methods, but let's try not to get carried away with.

Authors, feel free to ask followup questions to critiques, this can often help enlighten others, but again, if it gets beyond a couple of exchanges, it's probably best to take it to PM.

I think that's all we need for now. None of this is written in stone, and we'll learn what we'll need to add or adjust to these guidelines as we go, so feel free to makes suggestions at any time.
__________________
I have my own TV show featuring local musicians performing live. YouTube page with full episodes and outtake clips here.
I also have another YouTube page with local live music clips I've filmed on my own.

Last edited by Jimor : 09-25-2009 at 01:45 PM.
Jimor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2009, 08:40 PM   Top  -  End  -  #2
Jimor
Bugbear in the Playground
 
BlueKnightGuy
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: 
Northern California
Gender: Male
Default Re: Playground Writers Workshop (Read 1st Post)

Workshop Roster
(Current as of Post #206, 2/22/11)

Alarra (3 critiques)
"Heartstone", 1/25/10, Fantasy, 3988 words
Critiques: banjo1985, Neon Knight, averagejoe, Zom B, DSCrankshaw
averagejoe (8 critiques)

banjo1985 (6 critiques)
"Inner Demons" (Prologue Ch1, Prologue Ch2), 9/19/09, Modern Fantasy/Horror, 1650 words
Critiques: thurge namor, Deckmaster, Helanna, Calinero, rakkoon, waterpenguin43
"Inner Demons" (Ch1, Ch2, Ch3), (Rewrite), 7/22/10, Modern Fantasy/Horror, 5000 words
Critiques: FoE, Savannah, JessGulbranson
Calinero (2 critiques)

changingvamp (1 critique)

chiasaur11 (1 critique)

cho_j (3 critiques)

Conjob (5 critiques)

curtis (2 critiques)

Danne (2 critiques)

Darius Macab (1 critique)

Deckmaster (3 critiques)
Child of the Dragon (Prologue, Ch1), 9/26/09
Critiques: Tequila Sunrise, Silence, Jimor
DSCrankshaw (3 critiques)
Untitled Steampunkish Story, 2,247 words, 4/13/10
Critiques: Danne, Ether, The Pressman, The_JJ
EmeraldPhoenix (3 critiques)
"Chapter One of RL", 11/27/09
Critiques: waterpenguin43, Raz_Fox, Kallisti, Falgorn, averagejoe, Tira-chan, Zolkabro
Ether (3 critiques)

Falgorn (2 critiques)

FoE (1 critique)

Garwain (3 critiques)
"Brallers Ballance", 9/30/10, Fantasy Story Intro, 750 words
Critiques: Tira-chan, averagejoe, Random_person, leakingpen, cho_j
GolemsVoice (2 critiques)
"The Dream-Singer", 9/12/09, Classic Weird Tale
Critiques: Mr.Silver, Tequila Sunrise, Helanna, Kallisti, Milo v3
Helanna (9 critiques)
"The Empty Ruins", 9/22/09
Critiques: Tequila Sunrise, Deckmaster, Mr.Silver, banjo1985, averagejoe, Zolkabro
"The Palace", 1/4/10
Critiques: Tequila Sunrise, Alarra, Neon Knight, Zom B, averagejoe
jayeljay (0 critiques)
"Neko Tails" (Intro, Prologue, Ch1), 9/6/09, Fantasy Novel
Critiques: Mr.Silver, Helanna, banjo1985, Raz_Fox, curtis, Lord Raziere, JessGulbranson
"Neko Tails" (Ch2, Ch3), 9/10/09, Fantasy Novel
Critiques: Mr.Silver, curtis
JessGulbranson (6 critiques)
"The Tiger-man", 8/19/10
Critiques: Random_person
Jimor (3 critiques)

Kallisti (8 critiques)
"Mask Masque", 9/20/09
Critiques: banjo1985, Deckmaster, Silence, thurge namor
"This was my dream...", 500 words, 11/12/09
Critiques: thurge namor, Conjob, The Fiery Tower, RPGsr4me, EmeraldPhoenix, Raz_Fox, Neon Knight, Zolkabro, Tira-chan
leakingpen (2 critiques)

Lioness (1 critique)

Lord Raziere (3 critiques)
"The Stories of Trizap: Neomind", Ch 1, 4/1/10
Critiques: Helanna, Teutonic Knight, Garwain
"Exalted", (3 parts), 12/31/10
Critiques: Jimor
Milo v3 (1 critique)

Mordar (1 critique)

Mr.Silver (6 critiques)

Neon Knight (6 critiques)
"Moonlit Nights in Birmingham", 2/25/10
Critiques: Raroy, Garwain, The_JJ
Psycho (1 critique)

rakkoon (1 critique)

Random_person (4 critiques)
Untitled Stry, 8/4/10
Critiques: Savannah, Danne, Tira-chan, Kallisti
Raroy (2 critiques)

RationalGoblin (0 critiques)
"Worlds Without Number" (Ch1), 9/13/09
Critiques: GolemsVoice, banjo1985, Mr. Silver, Tequila Sunrise, Helanna, Lord Raziere, JessGulbranson
Raz_Fox (9 critiques)
"The Last Trade", Fantasy, 9/18/09
Critiques: Mr.Silver, banjo1985, thurge namor, Helanna, Silence, waterpenguin43, averagejoe
Untitled, Fanfiction chapter, 5/17/10
Critiques: Raroy, Ether, Mordar, Random_person, JessGulbranson, Tira-chan, Darius Macab
RobotPerfomance (1 critique)

RPGsr4me (3 critiques)
"The Pull", 11/25/09
Critiques: Conjob, thurge namor, Raz_Fox, Neon Knight, Zolkabro, JessGulbranson
Rutskarn (0 critiques)
"Vatsy and Bruno 1: First Ink", 9/12/09
Critiques: GolemsVoice, Helanna, Tequila Sunrise, Calinero, chiasaur11, averagejoe, Lord Raziere
Savannah (2 critiques)

Silence (3 critiques)
Untitled short story, 10/23/09
Critiques: Kallisti, The Fiery Tower, RPGsr4me, EmeraldPhoenix, thurge namor, Raz_Fox, RobotPerformance, Neon Knight
Tequila Sunrise (7 critiques)
"Onami’s Greeting", 8/31/09, Fantasy Poetry
Critiques: Jimor, Helanna, Raz_Fox, thurge namor, Kallisti, Lioness, changingvamp
"Onami’s Legend", 1/3/10, Fantasy Poetry
Critiques: Zom B, cho_j
Teutonic Knight (1 critique)

The Fiery Tower (3 critiques)
"Alone?", 12/13/09
Critiques: Conjob, Kallisti, Falgorn, Alarra, banjo1985, Tira-chan, DSCrankshaw
The_JJ (3 critiques)

The Pressman (1 critique)

thurge namor (7 critiques)
"Aces and Eights", 10/8/09, Poetry
Critiques: Tequila Sunrise, Conjob, Kallisti, RPGsr4me, EmeraldPhoenix, Raz_Fox, JessGulbranson, cho_j
"We Are Undying", 500 words, 11/12/09
Critiques: Kallisti, Conjob, The Fiery Tower
"Forever Dead" (selection), 11/25/09
Critiques: Alarra, Psycho, averagejoe
Tira-chan (7 critiques)
Untitled Novel, Chap 1, 3/23/10
Critiques: Helanna, Zolkabro, DSCrankshaw, Ether
"The Spell Hotel", 9/1/10
Critiques: Random_person, leakingpen
waterpenguin43 (3 critiques)
"The Duke of Light", Chap 1, Parts 1 and 2, 11/29/09
Critiques: Raz_Fox
"Pathways", Part 1, 11/29/09
Critiques: Raz_Fox, Neon Knight
Zolkabro (5 critiques)

Zom B (3 critiques)
"A Sticky Situation", Chap 1, 3/3/10
Critiques: Tira-chan, Garwain, The_JJ
__________________
I have my own TV show featuring local musicians performing live. YouTube page with full episodes and outtake clips here.
I also have another YouTube page with local live music clips I've filmed on my own.

Last edited by Jimor : 02-22-2011 at 09:43 AM.
Jimor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2009, 08:41 PM   Top  -  End  -  #3
Jimor
Bugbear in the Playground
 
BlueKnightGuy
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: 
Northern California
Gender: Male
Default Re: Playground Writers Workshop (Read 1st Post)

Critique Tips, Advice, and Resources.

Resources:

Critters Writers Workshop
This is the workshop I roughly modeled this thread on. If you're looking for a more structured workshop experience for science fiction/fantasy/horror, this might be a good place to start.

Critters Resource Page
This is their specific page that has further links to other workshops, article on writing and critiquing, and many other useful sites for writers.

Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America
Good articles around the site about the business and craft of writing.

Writer Beware
A subsection of SFWA's site that has tons of great information about protecting yourself as a writer against scams and other dubious services that are out there preying on authors.

Advice:

Mr.Silver on Constructive Criticism
Spoiler
__________________
I have my own TV show featuring local musicians performing live. YouTube page with full episodes and outtake clips here.
I also have another YouTube page with local live music clips I've filmed on my own.

Last edited by Jimor : 09-20-2009 at 11:23 PM.
Jimor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2009, 09:22 PM   Top  -  End  -  #4
Helanna
Bugbear in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: 
In a state of denial
Gender: Female
Default Re: Playground Writers Workshop (Read 1st Post)

Alright, we've got a writing workshop! Yay!

It looks to me like you've pretty much covered most of the foreseeable events there, so that's good.

However, I'd just like to stress the importance of good critiquing. Obviously, remember that just you should never just say "This was good/bad". It's more than alright to express a negative opinion, but make sure you point out why it's good or bad - "This story had very good characters. They acted realistically, had realistic motives, and were never out of character" is good, as is "The dialogue in this piece wasn't very good, it felt stilted and unnatural, for examples in lines 6, 33, and 90 . . .". However, just stating "This is good" is unhelpful and wastes time and space, and just saying "This was bad" can be considered flaming if you don't give reasons, so be careful.

Also, a question: Is it alright to post off-site links to stories posted elsewhere? For example, could I link to a story on my Fictionpress account, or should I re-post it here?
__________________
We now have a Writer's Workshop in the Playground!

Awesome avatar by Tiffanie Lirle. Thank you!

Her name is Saunel. She is very angry.
Helanna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2009, 09:29 PM   Top  -  End  -  #5
rubakhin
Bugbear in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 
Not Canada.
Gender: Male
Default Re: Playground Writers Workshop (Read 1st Post)

Maybe there should be prompts on a weekly or monthly basis, to encourage thread activity and generally inspire people. It'll be like the Iron Author contest, but probably it'll attract more traffic because it doesn't run on sign-ups and time limits.
__________________
Click here for whining.

Click here for kitten.

avatar by Doihaveaname?
rubakhin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2009, 09:44 PM   Top  -  End  -  #6
Jimor
Bugbear in the Playground
 
BlueKnightGuy
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: 
Northern California
Gender: Male
Default Re: Playground Writers Workshop (Read 1st Post)

@Death Dragon: Yes, giving a good critique takes some effort and there are lots of good tips on improving them, which is why I set aside one of the opening posts to expand on that subject. Not only what I may have to say on the subject, but anybody else here, too, as well as links to outside resources that give various techniques and advice.

I'll say repost them here for now, just because I want to make it easy for people to do it all right here. Once it gets going, if we know enough people will follow links like that, we'll make that an option (which might also work for banned topics, but again, I want to see how it works all right here first).

@rubakhin: A good idea. Let's see what activity we get as is, but that's definitely a good way to jumpstart things if a lull develops. Hopefully, this also develops a pool of writers who will be interested whenever Iron Author starts up again.
__________________
I have my own TV show featuring local musicians performing live. YouTube page with full episodes and outtake clips here.
I also have another YouTube page with local live music clips I've filmed on my own.
Jimor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2009, 01:53 AM   Top  -  End  -  #7
FirebirdFlying
Bugbear in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Default Re: Playground Writers Workshop (Read 1st Post)

How do drafts work - three more critiques per next draft as well, I'm guessing?
FirebirdFlying is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2009, 02:56 AM   Top  -  End  -  #8
Jimor
Bugbear in the Playground
 
BlueKnightGuy
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: 
Northern California
Gender: Male
Default Re: Playground Writers Workshop (Read 1st Post)

That's a very good question. I was thinking maybe just asking for 1 more critique in order to post a 2nd draft, but let's stick with 3 for each draft. This way we can still give full credit to anybody who critiques that story a 2nd time or more (you want that kind of followup from some of the same people) without dropping the average number of critiques that get spread around. If this needs adjusting later, that's totally doable.

One of the weaknesses of this system is that some stories may receive a lot of comments, while others may get orphaned. If a story goes a while without getting any replies, I can award bonuses critiques to anybody who gives it some attention. Hopefully people will do that on their own (I'll add post dates to the roster list of stories so it will be easy to spot orphans that have been waiting).
__________________
I have my own TV show featuring local musicians performing live. YouTube page with full episodes and outtake clips here.
I also have another YouTube page with local live music clips I've filmed on my own.
Jimor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2009, 08:51 AM   Top  -  End  -  #9
banjo1985
Ogre in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: 
Brumland, England
Gender: Male
Default Re: Playground Writers Workshop (Read 1st Post)

This is a great idea! Registering my interest as a story contributor and to offer critiques.

My current embryonic project is 1500 words of first draft fantasy/science fiction story that I would appreciate a critique of after I've written a little more. I guess I should probably name it at some point too.
__________________

Elder Tsofu believes in the power of Banjo!
banjo1985 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2009, 12:30 AM   Top  -  End  -  #10
Jimor
Bugbear in the Playground
 
BlueKnightGuy
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: 
Northern California
Gender: Male
Default Re: Playground Writers Workshop (Read 1st Post)

Very cool, looks forward to seeing it.

I think it will take a little time for people to start adding their works to the thread, takes a bit of time to get works in progress ready, so everybody don't worry if things don't happen right away. If nothing gets going in a couple weeks, though, we'll try rubakhin's prompt idea.
__________________
I have my own TV show featuring local musicians performing live. YouTube page with full episodes and outtake clips here.
I also have another YouTube page with local live music clips I've filmed on my own.
Jimor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2009, 11:59 AM   Top  -  End  -  #11
Tequila Sunrise
Banned
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Default Re: Playground Writers Workshop (Read 1st Post)

I think this thread is a great idea so I'll contribute the first submission, a poem I wrote years ago about a character who I'd like to use for a longer work or for a game but haven't figured out how yet:

Onami’s Greeting; Fantasy Poetry
Spoiler
Tequila Sunrise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2009, 06:26 PM   Top  -  End  -  #12
Jimor
Bugbear in the Playground
 
BlueKnightGuy
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: 
Northern California
Gender: Male
Default Re: Playground Writers Workshop (Read 1st Post)

Excellent, our first victim participant!

I added a bit to the first post about posting critiques in spoilers, and to post multiple critiques done at the same time in the same post. This is moreso for thread management, but some may also wish to come at a story fresh rather than being influenced by other critiques. Use common sense on spoilers during followup discussions -- if it talks more about writing or critique theory, then spoilers aren't needed.

I'll edit in my own comments here a bit later when I get a chance.

Critique: "Onami's Greeting" by Tequila Sunrise
Spoiler
__________________
I have my own TV show featuring local musicians performing live. YouTube page with full episodes and outtake clips here.
I also have another YouTube page with local live music clips I've filmed on my own.

Last edited by Jimor : 09-02-2009 at 03:44 AM.
Jimor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2009, 01:57 PM   Top  -  End  -  #13
jayeljay
Pixie in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Default Re: Playground Writers Workshop (Read 1st Post)

Question: What if we want critiques on multiple chapters of a story? Do they each count as an individual piece?
__________________
Credit to Elrond for avvy. ^_^
jayeljay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2009, 02:51 PM   Top  -  End  -  #14
Helanna
Bugbear in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: 
In a state of denial
Gender: Female
Default Re: Playground Writers Workshop (Read 1st Post)

Hey, the thread is moving! A bit! Yay!

Critique: "Onami's Greeting" by Tequila Sunrise

Spoiler
__________________
We now have a Writer's Workshop in the Playground!

Awesome avatar by Tiffanie Lirle. Thank you!

Her name is Saunel. She is very angry.
Helanna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2009, 05:29 PM   Top  -  End  -  #15
Mr.Silver
Bugbear in the Playground
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: 
The rainy isles of Albion
Gender: Male
Default Re: Playground Writers Workshop (Read 1st Post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimor View Post
@Death Dragon: Yes, giving a good critique takes some effort and there are lots of good tips on improving them, which is why I set aside one of the opening posts to expand on that subject. Not only what I may have to say on the subject, but anybody else here, too, as well as links to outside resources that give various techniques and advice.
Since I don't really care for poetry enough to give much input on TS' piece, I guess I'll give some guidelines.

Constructive Criticism
For writers looking for feedback, this is what they need. A fairly in-depth examination of the work covering both its successes and its failings. Contrary to what some people may tell you, good criticism requires a fair amount of effort. Just expressing an opinion - "I like this, it's awesome"/"This sucks" - while it is technically feedback is not helpful. When it comes to providing good criticism it is vital that you explain what works and what doesn't work and useful to explain why the areas do or do not. This however requires thought and effort on your part as a critic and can also take up a fair amount of time. To make things a little easier, I have some suggested pointers beyond simply putting more in than an unqualified 'This is great/this sucks' remark (just don't do this).

1. Don't gloss over flaws. This is a common problem in these types of circles. As most of you are amateur writers yourselves you know writing well is difficult and its easy to feel sorry for someone who's having their work shot to pieces on the metaphorical firing line. Because of this, there is always the temptation to hold back, a little voice in your head that says "yeah, this part isn't too good, but he/she is obviously trying, just look at this part over here. Let's priase that instead." [u]Do not fall into this trap[/i]. Indentifying flaws and suggesting methods of dealing with them is a vital part of feedback. For a writer to improve they need to know where their weaknesses lie and how to combat them. If you see a problem don't skip over it. It may seem a little harsh but trust me, when your turn comes you'l be glad of it. That said however...

2. Don't obsess on the negativity. Remember, a minor flaw is just that: minor. Spelling and grammitical errors for instance should not be your biggest area of focus (unless they're particularly frequent). If a work is positive overall make sure to emphasise that. If something works well say so, encouragement is emportant for anyone pursuing a creative endevour. While it won't show them where they need to go, it will give them the drive to keep going and get better.

3. Be aware of your personal preferences. Let's face it, a fair amount of enjoyment of a work is subjective. Some genres, characters, plots and story hooks just aren't going to be enjoyable for you even if the writing is near flawless. Hell, you might even just find a particular writing style irritation. This is something you need to keep in mind at all times. Objective mistakes are easy enough to spot, but as you start getting more into the subtleties you need to ask yourself whether a problem you have is the result of a failing on the writer's part or if it's simply down to different tastes. This is a difficult area to give guidelines for, as everyone is going to be different in this regard. Just try and keep this in mind where you can, although if you think something genuinely isn't working then say so.

4. Don't make it personal. Nobody wants a fanboy, nobody likes a jerk. Keep personal comments out of it and don't go overboard on the opinions; even if you still provide proper criticism as well.
Mr.Silver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2009, 04:39 AM   Top  -  End  -  #16
Jimor
Bugbear in the Playground
 
BlueKnightGuy
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: 
Northern California
Gender: Male
Default Re: Playground Writers Workshop (Read 1st Post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayeljay View Post
Question: What if we want critiques on multiple chapters of a story? Do they each count as an individual piece?
Another very excellent question.

My initial ruling is that for multiple chapters, whatever will fit in a single post. There's I think a 50,000 character limit, which is roughly 8,000 words. That's a fairly long story's worth of material, maybe 2 long chapters, or as many as 10 short chapters. However, if somebody has a complete short story that is too long for one post, that still counts as one submission.

Like everything else, if we need to adjust this later, we will. As things settle in, I'll be sure to rewrite the first post to include these clarifications.

In the meantime, I've updated the roster to note Death Dragon's critique, and I've put Mr. Silver's excellent advice in the Tips post.
__________________
I have my own TV show featuring local musicians performing live. YouTube page with full episodes and outtake clips here.
I also have another YouTube page with local live music clips I've filmed on my own.
Jimor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2009, 10:43 PM   Top  -  End  -  #17
Tequila Sunrise
Banned
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Default Re: Playground Writers Workshop (Read 1st Post)

Thanks to Jimor and Death Dragon for the critiques; I'm glad you like my unusual style. Hopefully I'll be able to return the favor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Death Dragon View Post
Critique: "Onami's Greeting" by Tequila Sunrise

Over all, it's definitely good! Do you have any actual backstory about what Onami did, or is he just mentioned in this poem?
All I have is one and a half other poems about Onami. Ultimately, I think it'd be cool to have a collection of short poems about Onami; it would create a sort of fractured overview of his legendary life. Maybe after this thread gets moving, I won't feel bad about posting more Onami works for critique.
Tequila Sunrise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2009, 01:16 AM   Top  -  End  -  #18
jayeljay
Pixie in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Default Re: Playground Writers Workshop (Read 1st Post)

Well, here we go. I posted this in it's own topic, which panned out about as well as I expected. This looks like a better idea anyway.

I'll try to get some critiques up for those poems in a few days. I also have a book to suggest to people just learning to write fiction.

As for what I am wanting feedback on, I'll pretty much take what I can get. Anything you an point out that needs work is helpful. ^_^

Neko Tails:

Introduction
Spoiler

Prologue
Spoiler

Chapter 1
Spoiler
__________________
Credit to Elrond for avvy. ^_^
jayeljay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2009, 05:02 PM   Top  -  End  -  #19
Mr.Silver
Bugbear in the Playground
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: 
The rainy isles of Albion
Gender: Male
Default Re: Playground Writers Workshop (Read 1st Post)

Critique: "Neko Tales" by jayeljay

Spoiler

Last edited by Mr.Silver : 09-07-2009 at 05:02 PM.
Mr.Silver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2009, 09:49 PM   Top  -  End  -  #20
Helanna
Bugbear in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: 
In a state of denial
Gender: Female
Default Re: Playground Writers Workshop (Read 1st Post)

First, a note about introductions and prologues in general: Feel free to use them, but I've been told never to put vital information in them, because there will be readers that simply skip them and move to the first chapter. They're good for establishing background, but many people will just kind of skim them in order to get to the real plot.

Now, for critiquing:

Critique: "Neko Tales" by jayeljay


Spoiler
__________________
We now have a Writer's Workshop in the Playground!

Awesome avatar by Tiffanie Lirle. Thank you!

Her name is Saunel. She is very angry.

Last edited by Death Dragon : 09-07-2009 at 09:50 PM.
Helanna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2009, 07:22 AM   Top  -  End  -  #21
banjo1985
Ogre in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: 
Brumland, England
Gender: Male
Default Re: Playground Writers Workshop (Read 1st Post)

As I've said I'll post something here at some point, I need to pay something back and critique this rather charming opening to what could be a very entertaining story. I'm not much of a poet, but novels I can get my teeth into.

Critique: "Neko Tales" by jayeljay

Spoiler
__________________

Elder Tsofu believes in the power of Banjo!
banjo1985 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2009, 01:23 PM   Top  -  End  -  #22
jayeljay
Pixie in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Default Re: Playground Writers Workshop (Read 1st Post)

I would like to thank all three of you, Banjo, DDragon, and Mr. Silver, for your critiques. I find it quite refreshing to get unbiased reviews, as most people who I have asked to critique it thusfar are my friends and were afraid of hurting my feelings. (not that I mind that ^-^) Anyhoo, You've all raised a number of good points, and I have saved all of your critiques to my computer, for future reference.

If noone minds (and seeing as how there doesn't seem to be anyone else wanting to post in here) I have two more chapters of this story written. I've identified a major flaw, whihc I am sure you guys will as well, though I am sure ther are more I haven't noticed. I will post them if I get the OK.
__________________
Credit to Elrond for avvy. ^_^
jayeljay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2009, 02:44 PM   Top  -  End  -  #23
Helanna
Bugbear in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: 
In a state of denial
Gender: Female
Default Re: Playground Writers Workshop (Read 1st Post)

I don't know about Jimor but I say post them because I really want to know what happens.

Also, I may just actually post a story at least by Monday. Truly, it will be an amazing event (in that I actually stopped being so lazy and took the time to really edit through a story).
__________________
We now have a Writer's Workshop in the Playground!

Awesome avatar by Tiffanie Lirle. Thank you!

Her name is Saunel. She is very angry.
Helanna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2009, 05:27 PM   Top  -  End  -  #24
Jimor
Bugbear in the Playground
 
BlueKnightGuy
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: 
Northern California
Gender: Male
Default Re: Playground Writers Workshop (Read 1st Post)

Yes, go ahead, that will help get things going. When there's a nice backlog of stories already on the board, that's when we can insist somebody go back and make some new critiques first. Just remember to catch up with your own critiques when there's finally something to read.
__________________
I have my own TV show featuring local musicians performing live. YouTube page with full episodes and outtake clips here.
I also have another YouTube page with local live music clips I've filmed on my own.
Jimor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2009, 10:58 PM   Top  -  End  -  #25
jayeljay
Pixie in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Default Re: Playground Writers Workshop (Read 1st Post)

I'll me more than happy to give critiques, but realize tthat this story is the first thing I have ever written. As such, I would hate to give someone poor advice. Don't think I will not give critiques though, I swear I will.

Also, I would like to suggest a book for someone just learning to write. Everything I have posted was written before I stopped and read the book, including these twochapters. Infact I am still reading. A tip to anyone wanting to write: If you want to write a story based on a Roleplay you create, make sure you finish the roleplay first. I learned that lesson the hard way.

Edit: Silly me, I forgot to tell you the name of the book. 'The Art and Craft of Storytelling' by Nancy Lamb.

Neko tails
Chapter 2
Spoiler

Chapter 3
Spoiler
__________________
Credit to Elrond for avvy. ^_^

Last edited by jayeljay : 09-10-2009 at 11:39 PM.
jayeljay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2009, 11:26 PM   Top  -  End  -  #26
Rutskarn
Troll in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: 
Chocolate Hamlet
Gender: Male
Default Re: Playground Writers Workshop (Read 1st Post)

Question: how long can they be? Also, can you post more than one story at a time?
__________________
The man who does Spoiler Warning, that website, that book, and brought Nixon back from the grave.
Spoiler
Spoiler
Rutskarn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2009, 07:16 AM   Top  -  End  -  #27
Mr.Silver
Bugbear in the Playground
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: 
The rainy isles of Albion
Gender: Male
Default Re: Playground Writers Workshop (Read 1st Post)

Quote:
A tip to anyone wanting to write: If you want to write a story based on a Roleplay you create
Don't.

Neko Tales continued
Spoiler
Mr.Silver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2009, 02:46 AM   Top  -  End  -  #28
Jimor
Bugbear in the Playground
 
BlueKnightGuy
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: 
Northern California
Gender: Male
Default Re: Playground Writers Workshop (Read 1st Post)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutskarn View Post
Question: how long can they be? Also, can you post more than one story at a time?
No particular limit on length for a complete short story. I think each post can hold approximately 8000 words, and my first story was 21,000 words for example, so if you need to split over posts, go ahead and do so. (Longer stories like that are often referred to as "novellas".)

Yes, go ahead and post more than one here if you wish. This will help us get started. This offer is only open to the first 8 posters of work, however. Once we're going, the "proper" way to do that would be to go through what's already posted and provide 3 critiques for each story before posting those.
__________________
I have my own TV show featuring local musicians performing live. YouTube page with full episodes and outtake clips here.
I also have another YouTube page with local live music clips I've filmed on my own.
Jimor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2009, 10:53 AM   Top  -  End  -  #29
Rutskarn
Troll in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: 
Chocolate Hamlet
Gender: Male
Default Re: Playground Writers Workshop (Read 1st Post)

Alright. Only I was planning on giving the ol' Vatsy and Bruno an airing, a story I've already "published" on my site a couple months ago. I wanted to know if that was kosher or not.

If so, one advantage is that I can actually link to a finished version of that and its sequel, the second story I was planning to link.
__________________
The man who does Spoiler Warning, that website, that book, and brought Nixon back from the grave.
Spoiler
Spoiler
Rutskarn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2009, 02:09 PM   Top  -  End  -  #30
GolemsVoice
Ogre in the Playground
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: 
Germany
Gender: Male
Default Re: Playground Writers Workshop (Read 1st Post)

Since so far there seem to be only 2 stories up so far, I'm contributor number three, and will post my story without giving three critiques first, although I will add a critique to Onami's Greeting at the end.


The Dream-Singer, a classic Weird Tale
Spoiler


And now the critique for Tequila Sunrise

I like your poem. It's very clear structured, and this carries on into the individual stanzas. They all have the air of a wise saying.
It also evokes a slightly Japanese setting to me, and I imagine Onami as a kind of samurai warrior rallying his men with wisdom and soft words instead of loud battlecries. There's also a sort of last stand feel to it, as Onami does not use "could kill you, or want to kill you" but "will kill you".

The connection between the interlocking stanzas is abit hard to grasp, and I'm not really sure if I get them, but my interpretation is this: On the one hand, Onami tells of hands and how they hold what is in our heart, and on the other hand he tells of how man can rise to glory. There seems t be no connection at first glance, but when you think about it, in the last lines, he ties them together. "Man can earn greatness, and I'm going to do it. I welcome you with my hands (the hands of a hero, of one who is destined for greatness) so that you too can be a hero"

THe last lines are especially powerful, as it gives the impression of a (desperate?) determined warrior band, bound to perish but sure to be remembered as great men (as the poem is set in the past, and seems to be told like a legend)
__________________
Si non confectus, non reficiat.

The beautiful girl is courtesy of Serpentine
My S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Call of Pripjat Let's Play! Please give it a read, more than one constant reader would be nice!

Last edited by GolemsVoice : 09-12-2009 at 02:10 PM.
GolemsVoice is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:43 AM.



Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Usage of this site, including but not limited to making or editing a post or private message or the creation of an account, constitutes acceptance of the Forum Rules.