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Razorwind Atlatl: A weapon of elven design, created when elves were little more than tribal hunters. The atlatl used to be a wooden device use to thow polished stone discs (this type is still used by clerics), now the most common design is a mix of a khopesh and a falchion, with two blades adjacent to each other, ammunition is placed between these blades on the back edge. The weapon is fired by simply swinging it forward in a vertical position, though seemingly simple it takes a lot of training to fire this weapon accurately. Once mastered this weapon is a terror on the battlefield, with the user slinging heavy discs at a steady rate, dismemberment is inevitable.
The design is popular with fighters because although it is slightly harder to use than a normal melee weapon, the atlatl opperates much the same as a falchion in close quarters. If gold is abundant atlatls can be upgraded much like composite bows, allowing the users strength to increase damage, although the elves are loathe to reveal how this works. One of the weapons drawbacks is weight, of both the atlatl and the ammunition, weighing ten and two pounds respectively. There are several kinds of ammunition including bludgeoning stone discs, alchemic explosives, and jagged blades that leave gaping wounds.
Name
Cost
Damage
Critical
Range
type
Atlatl (ranged)
100gp
1d10
18-20/x2
80ft
Slashing (depends on ammo)
Atlatl (melee)
-
2d4
18-20/x2
-
Slashing
Requires Exotic Weopon Proficiency (Atlatl)
When used as a melee weapon user recieves -1 on attack rolls and may gain the benifits of Weapon Focus (Falchion), Weapon Specialization (Falchion), and other feats associated with falchions. Regular ammo costs 1gp per 5 discs weighing 2lb each.
Last edited by Strudel110 : 01-23-2010 at 06:38 PM.
I really like it. However as a throwing weapon, it ALREADY adds strength to damage. Small disks however shouldn't deal more than 1d4 damage, but when strength bonus it easily makes up for it, not to mention it has a great critical threat range. The range should also be lowered, i really can't see a guy chucking these farther than a guy with a sling. . so a range of 40 ft. would be more accurate.
Two-handed Melee: 2d4 , 18-20/x2
Two-handed Ranged: 1d4 , 18-20/x2 , 40ft range.
Wielded two handed in melee, requires both hands to use ranged but doesn't count as a two-handed weapon (no adding 1.5 strength modifer)
I really like it. However as a throwing weapon, it ALREADY adds strength to damage. Small disks however shouldn't deal more than 1d4 damage, but when strength bonus it easily makes up for it, not to mention it has a great critical threat range. The range should also be lowered, i really can't see a guy chucking these farther than a guy with a sling. . so a range of 40 ft. would be more accurate.
Two-handed Melee: 2d4 , 18-20/x2
Two-handed Ranged: 1d4 , 18-20/x2 , 40ft range.
Wielded two handed in melee, requires both hands to use ranged but doesn't count as a two-handed weapon (no adding 1.5 strength modifer)
Why do you want an exotic weapon to suck? It's hardly worth the feat as is.
I think its awesome like this, a medium ranged versatile weapon with a high threat range, perfect for a focused fighter. Also, it has a SUPER benefit of being a two-use item. . thats to say that +2 Frost Razorwind Atlatl. . well its still a +2 Frost Razorwind Atlatl when you start throwing steel disks at people! The disks are the equilavent of daggers, yet they have more force behind them so they add strength damage. But its still not a weapon designed purely for range so it doesn't shoot at far as other actual range weapon. 1d10 over 1d4 damage might matter early on, but i get the feeling that this is an experts weapon, a weapon of elite elven commando types and such types don't care that much over such a little damage difference.
Ohh, and i would remove the -1 attack penalty when used as a melee weapon
: )
It's not really much. High threat range wasn't competitive when Improved Critical, Keen Edge, and Keen all stacked, allowing you to run around everyone with 12-20 weapons.
Damage dice aren't that important, and while weapons that have to be enchanted twice aren't worth the money, that doesn't make the other weapons overpowered.
And it's still an exotic weapon. That is a pretty major blow.
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Last edited by lesser_minion : 01-23-2010 at 08:33 PM.
I do like how taking feats for the falchion affects this. Does it go the other way as well?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikka
1d10 over 1d4 damage might matter early on
Yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikka
but i get the feeling that this is an experts weapon, a weapon of elite elven commando types and such types don't care that much over such a little damage difference.
Doesn't matter what you feel in this case.
The weapon should be effective for all users, not just those of high levels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lesser_minion
Damage dice aren't that important, and while weapons that have to be enchanted twice aren't worth the money, that doesn't make the other weapons overpowered.
d10 damage for a little metal disk doesn't make sense. . hes not throwing bastard swords goddamnit ! xD
For one feat you get incredible versatility along with the ability to focus on one weapon that improves in two ways.
Ohh **** the necromancer is beginning to chant but is blocked off by a horde of undead.. woo! Schiiing schiing schiiing a few blades cut through the air and decapitate the poor bastard who had been expecting another melee fool. . or something like that.
I like it! However, what's the reload time on it? As a sling? Crossbow? Bow? My thought would be that it reloads as a sling, but it's something you might want to note.
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d10 damage for a little metal disk doesn't make sense. . hes not throwing bastard swords goddamnit ! xD
For one feat you get incredible versatility along with the ability to focus on one weapon that improves in two ways.
Ohh **** the necromancer is beginning to chant but is blocked off by a horde of undead.. woo! Schiiing schiing schiiing a few blades cut through the air and decapitate the poor bastard who had been expecting another melee fool. . or something like that.
Then you lose the weapon because the necromancer disintegrates it.
Dang. Feat's useless until you get another very heavy item.
You have to be careful with this thing due to the huge weight.
That brings up a question: Do discs break when shot (like arrows)?
But it's basically a very fancy sling, and slings were absolutely lethal (contrary to their portrayal in D&D).
d10 damage sounds about right for a 2lb object slamming into you at a ridiculous speed with sharp things attached to it.
The Evil Necromancer has protection from arrows, which functions equally well against weird bladed elvish shot-put things.
Sorry but really, you can't compare it to the damage of hand and a half sword cutting through you.
Like you said, slings were lethal, how much damage do slings do. . thats riiight 1d4. . . or a sharp dagger. . 1d4. . a piercing thrown : 1d4. . a blunt thrown. . 1d4. . . a slashing disk. . 1d10!!!. . no, no : p 1d4.
If this was a ranged ONLY thing, giving it a d10 damage would be fair, but it isn't.
I like the advantage of it, you can stand and fire off throwing disks with the blade until the enemy closes in melee, a single attack, after which you can retaliate with a full-round attack.
Making it competitive with bows and crossbows just doesn't make sense, if you want ranged power get a greatbow or something like that. .
but if you want a super hybrid this is it.
A strong level one character would deal 1d4+3-4 already better than any regular crossbow or bow.
And it only gets better the higher level you get.
Edit: Ohh and the disks should weigh 1-2 lb. per stack of 5 and not 2 apiece.
Quote:
Then you lose the weapon because the necromancer disintegrates it.
NICE ARGUMENT! I BET IF IT DID 1d10 DAMAGE IT WOULDN'T BE POSSIBLE RIGHT!?!?! AND NO OTHER WEAPONS CAN BE DISINTEGRATED!!! YOU SO COOL!
Sorry but really, you can't compare it to the damage of hand and a half sword cutting through you.
Like you said, slings were lethal, how much damage do slings do. . thats riiight 1d4. . . or a sharp dagger. . 1d4. . a piercing thrown : 1d4. . a blunt thrown. . 1d4. . . a slashing disk. . 1d10!!!. . no, no : p 1d4.
If this was a ranged ONLY thing, giving it a d10 damage would be fair, but it isn't.
I like the advantage of it, you can stand and fire off throwing disks with the blade until the enemy closes in melee, a single attack, after which you can retaliate with a full-round attack.
Making it competitive with bows and crossbows just doesn't make sense, if you want ranged power get a greatbow or something like that. .
but if you want a super hybrid this is it.
A strong level one character would deal 1d4+3-4 already better than any regular crossbow or bow.
And it only gets better the higher level you get.
Edit: Ohh and the disks should weigh 1-2 lb. per stack of 5 and not 2 apiece.
NICE ARGUMENT! I BET IF IT DID 1d10 DAMAGE IT WOULDN'T BE POSSIBLE RIGHT!?!?! AND NO OTHER WEAPONS CAN BE DISINTEGRATED!!! YOU SO COOL!
. . .
Quote:
Ohh **** the necromancer is beginning to chant but is blocked off by a horde of undead.. woo! Schiiing schiing schiiing a few blades cut through the air and decapitate the poor bastard who had been expecting another melee fool. . or something like that.
You're the one who said this. Necromancers beat fighters with spells. Fell drain magic missile? Enervation? Win.
Just saying. Not really an argument against the weapon so much as against...your argument for the weapon.
I do agree on the damage though. 1d10 is pretty high for a "thrown" weapon.
All im saying is the boon of the weapon is its versatility and when compared to other thrown weapons its damage should be 1d4 and its range should at MOST be the range of a sling 50 ft, and that is really stretching it.
A strong level one character would deal 1d4+3-4 already better than any regular crossbow or bow.
And it only gets better the higher level you get.
I believe that's the point of spending a feat to access it in the first place, instead of just using said crossbow or bow. Versatility and all. The damage dice and having a range higher than a "simple weapon" sling really aren't that much of an issue.
All im saying is the boon of the weapon is its versatility and when compared to other thrown weapons its damage should be 1d4 and its range should at MOST be the range of a sling 50 ft, and that is really stretching it.
1d4 + 3 = 4-7. Average? 5.5 damage.
1d10 + 3 = 4 - 13. Average? 8.5. That's +3 damage on average over the sling. Not that much. It's Weapon Specialization (awful feat) + 1 over the sling.
And you have to spend a feat on it.
From a realism view, yeah, it doesn't make too much sense. From a balancing view, it does.
I believe that's the point of spending a feat to access it in the first place, instead of just using said crossbow or bow. Versatility and all. The damage dice and having a range higher than a "simple weapon" sling really aren't that much of an issue.
Taking the feat saves you quickdraw, you can change immediately from ranged attacks to melee (and do full attack action straight away). You threaten your melee range even when you're ranged. By improving your melee weapon you also improve your ranged weapon, its two for one, and weapons are expensive.
If you have a decent strength your average damage will also be greater than a regular crossbow/longbow : )
All this for one feat! Awesome, even if its 1d4 damage and 40 range, its more than enough for most situations, but you won't be firing off into the distance like with a 'REAL' ranged weapon, as it should be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Temotei221
1d4 + 3 = 4-7. Average? 5.5 damage.
1d10 + 3 = 4 - 13. Average? 8.5. That's +3 damage on average over the sling. Not that much. It's Weapon Specialization (awful feat) + 1 over the sling.
And you have to spend a feat on it.
From a realism view, yeah, it doesn't make too much sense. From a balancing view, it does.
Adding another +3 average damage on said capabilities is NOT balanced : )
Taking the feat saves you quickdraw, you can change immediately from ranged attacks to melee (and do full attack action straight away). You threaten your melee range even when you're ranged. By improving your melee weapon you also improve your ranged weapon, its two for one, and weapons are expensive.
If you have a decent strength your average damage will also be greater than a regular crossbow/longbow
Congratulations. Your feat was actually worth spending, because you got an Exotic Weapon that doesn't suck. That's kinda the point. It's not nearly as gamebreaking as you think it is. +3 average damage isn't much in the grand scheme of things.
Well, At level 1, maybe, but psh. Everyone dies to a stiff wind at that level anyway.
Taking the feat saves you quickdraw, you can change immediately from ranged attacks to melee (and do full attack action straight away). You threaten your melee range even when you're ranged. By improving your melee weapon you also improve your ranged weapon, its two for one, and weapons are expensive.
If you have a decent strength your average damage will also be greater than a regular crossbow/longbow : )
All this for one feat! Awesome, even if its 1d4 damage and 40 range, its more than enough for most situations, but you won't be firing off into the distance like with a 'REAL' ranged weapon, as it should be.
Adding another +3 average damage on said capabilities is NOT balanced : )
My way is both more realistic and more balanced.
+3 damage is balanced for a feat.
Versatility is to be had, and the main benefit is threatening melee squares when using your ranged weapon, but that's not worth a feat by itself.
Your argument for having high Strength is invalid. Just get a composite bow.
The other main benefit is having a weapon that gets enchanted as a ranged and a melee weapon. This doesn't really unbalance things too much though, since you're still paying the same as another fighter's magic weapon would cost (+400+100 per Str mod added).
One pain is paying for increasing the Str mod in ranged fighting. You don't have to do that for other thrown weapons.
As is, the weapon is hardly worth taking a feat for. I'd rather have a greatsword and not spend a feat on it. It has its uses though.
Read this before you decide if this is worth a feat or not.
Spoiler
"How about instead of being able to travel anywhere in the multiverse, transform yourself into anything you can think of, stop time, and slay everyone you can see, we just give a nice +1 to hit with your secondary weapon? Deal?"
Feats were an interesting idea when they were ported to 3rd edition D&D. But let's face it; they don't go nearly far enough. Feats were made extremely conservative in their effects on the game because the authors didn't want to offend people with too radical a change. Well, now we've had third edition for 6 years, and we're offended. Feats are an interesting and tangible way to get unique abilities onto a character, but they have fallen prey to two key fallacies that has ended up turning the entire concept to ashes in our mouths. The first is the idea that if you think of something kind of cool for a character to do, you should make it a feat. That sounds compelling, but you only get 7 feats in your whole life. If you have to spend a feat for every cool thing you ever do, you're not going to do very many cool things in the approximately 260 encounters you'll have on your way from 1st to 20th level. The second is the idea that a feat should be equivalent to a cantrip or two. This one is even less excusable, and just makes us cry. A +1 bonus is something that you seriously might forget that you even have. Having one more +1 bonus doesn't make your character unique, it makes you a sucker for spending one of the half dozen feats you'll ever see on a bonus the other players won't even mention when discussing your character.
We all understand this problem, what do we do about it? Well, for starters, Feats have to do more things. Many characters are 5th level or so and they only have 2 feats. Those feats should describe their character in a much more salient way than "I'm no worse shooting into melee than I am shooting at people with cover that isn't my friends." This was begun with the tactical feats, but it didn't go far enough. It's not enough to add additional feats that do something halfway interesting for high level characters to have – we actually have to replace the stupid one dimensional feats in the PHB with feats that rational people would care about in any way. Spending a single feat should be enough to make you a "sniper character" because for a substantial portion of your life you only get one feat. Secondly, we have to clear away feats that don't provide numeric bonuses large enough to care about. The minimum bonus you'll ever notice is +3, because that's actually larger than the difference between having rolled well and having rolled poorly on your starting stats. Numeric bonuses smaller than that are actually insulting and need to be removed from the feats altogether. 3.5 Skill Focus was a nice start, but that's all it was – a start.
Furthermore, the fundamental structure of feats has been a disaster. The system of prerequisites often ensures that characters won't get an ability before it would be level appropriate for them to do so, but actually does nothing to ensure that such characters are in fact getting level appropriate abilities. Indeed, if a 12th level character decides that they want to pursue a career in shooting people in the face, they have to start all over gaining an ability that is supposed to be level appropriate for a 1st level character. Meanwhile, when a wizard of 12th level decides to pursue some new direction in spellcasting – he learns a new 6th level spell right off – and gets an ability that's level appropriate for a 12th level character.
Exotic Weapons are always given for a feat, so, if you make an exotic weapon... you're making a feat.
It's not how SRD does it, but, the difference here is the difference between 'traditional', and 'usable'.
Admittedly, Spiked Chain is, in some remote cases, actually worth the loss of a feat, but, that's that.
As for the quoting, I didn't know I had to quote it, do I?
Of course you don't. You copy-pasted the most important and relevant information from what you read. The link itself is unneeded because you provided everything we needed to see from what you had to say on the topic.
The spiked chain is only useful because it has the ability to help with tripping and disarming, and it has reach.
Of course, if you want those bonuses, just get an item (or spellcaster) for enlarge person.
All right first off it's not a thrown weapon guys in the same way you don't throw sling bullets at people you fire them...with a sling. Second I think 1d10 is reasonable, there is a sport using a form of atlatl wre they throw object at a speed of 145-160 miles per hour, if you get hit by 140mph object weighing 2lbs it's pretty much over, so yeah no 1d4 for you. Third it's supposed to be better than a bow I kept hearing my friend complaigning that D&D haets ranged weapons so I made one that's pretty good. Also Weapon Focus (atlatl) and other feats associated only improve the ranged part of the weapon, in melee it's a Falchion with -1 on attack rolls. I'll be doing some more weapons and maybe some special ammo for atlatls.
Falx are martial weapons.
A falx is a roughly sickle-shaped sword with a steep curve used for supprise attacks and attacking around shields, the only difference between a falx and a greater falx is size. While using a falx of either size enemies in close combat with you do not gain an AC bonus from physical shields. A falx is a type of longsword, whereas a greater falx is a type of greatsword, they benifit from feats associated with longswords and greatswords respectively.
EkuFixed*
Name
Cost
Damage
Critical
Range
type
Eku
10gp
1d10
x3
-
Bludgeoning
Eku are martial weapons
The eku is a weapon developed by fishermen for self defense and adopted by monks and strengthened for battle. Eku are monk weapons that are a cross between a greatclub and a quarterstaff, They were originally boat oars used by fishermen to deter monsters from stealing their catch. This weapon is essentially a greatclub and benifits from feats associated with greatclubs.
SwordbreakerFixed*
Name
Cost
Damage
Critical
Range
Type
Swordbreaker
40gp
1d4
19-20/x2
-
Piercing
Swordbreakers are martial weapons
Swordbreakers are defensive weapons that...break swords, this is achieved by catching an enemy's weapon in the space between the blades and snapping the blade at the hilt where the metal is weakest. Anyone using a swordbreaker counts as having improved sunder and gains a +1 on disarm checks. This weapon is a dagger.
Last edited by Strudel110 : 01-24-2010 at 10:21 PM.
The greater falx is better than the greatsword. Consider raising the price, since it's only 10 gp more for bypassing shield bonuses (meh) and getting one higher threat range (nice).
Consider the falchion: 2d4; 18-20/x2; 75 gp
This weapon is better because of the increased damage, and not only that...it's cheaper.
The atlatl isn't a thrown weapon, but it should be treated as one like the sling is.
Swordbreaker weapons were not actually made to break swords as much as catch them and potentially twist them out of the opponents grip, and then use your primary weapon to do the lethal blow.
So if anything, it should improve disarm attempts by +2 or something along those lines.
The falx is much better than a regular martial weapon and should be exotic.
The main weapon you posted IS a throwING weapon, you throw stuff with it, just like a sling and thats what you call a "thrown" weapon. Read up on your rules : )
And yes you throw things at very high speeds. . but what the HELL do you think that bows and crossbows do? they do it better than any human could ever possibly do. . thats why the real life equivalent of this weapon was abandoned in favor of superior weapons
The Falx needs clarification, as do all of these. Are they light, one-handed or two-handed?
The Falx/Greater Falx seem strictly better than the greatsword. Perhaps they should be exotic, since they deny AC bonuses.
The Eku is fine. Abnormally high damage, but meh, who really cares.
The Swordbreaker needs some mechanical clarification. Does the return sunder attempt take an AoO to perform? Is it a free action? What's it actually DO? Depending on the answers, it may need to be changed to an exotic weapon.
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Lovely Thaxos, Elder Serpent avatar by Vaynor! Thanks for letting me know man!
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