Warlock 2.0 - WIP

[Barbarian MD]

Warlock 2.0

I attempted to re-write the Hellfire Warlock, and it was suggested to me that a better idea would be to re-write the base class instead.

(If you're interested, I think Hellfire Warlock 2.0 works really well, but it's utterly broken if you use Eldritch Glaive with it...)

Here are some design goals:

• Iterative Eldritch Blasts
• More Invocations Known (3/4+2 progression)
• Reworking some of the Invocations
• Blast Shape and Essence will remain unchanged
• The ability to metamagic SLAs a number of times per day based on Cha
• Other things that I haven't thought of yet

What I've done so far to change it

• Fiendish Resilience now follows a linear increase (3 instead of 2 at 13).
• Iterative attacks (discussion ongoing on how to work this).
• Boosted invocations to a 3/4+2 progression.
• Imbue invocations--apply metamagic 3+Cha
• Increased EB every other level, rather than the weird slow down at the end.

Warlock 1.0 isn't OGL, BUT Wizard's has a character sheet for the Warlock posted here, and it includes invocations known and brief explanations of the invocations, so I'm assuming I can post them here. I won't post anything that's not public.

Warlock 2.0

Alignment
Any evil or chaotic.

Hit Die
d6.

Class Skills
The warlock’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Dsguise (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Use Magic Device (Cha).

Skill Points at 1st Level
(2 + Int modifier) ×4.

Skill Points at Each Additional Level
2 + Int modifier.

BAB: 3/4
Saves: Good Will

Level	Special	Invocations Known	Eldritch Blast
1	Least Invocations	2	1d6
2	Detect Magic	3
3	Cold Iron 1	4	2d6
4	Imbue Invocation: Empower, Deceive Item	5
5		5	3d6
6	Lesser Invocations	6
7	Cold Iron 2	7	4d6
8	Imbue Invocation: Maximize, Fiendish Resilience 1	8
9		8	5d6
10	Energy Resistance 5	9
11	Cold Iron 3, Greater Invocations	10	6d6
12	Imbue Invocation: Quicken, Imbue Item	11
13	Fiendish Resilience 3	11	7d6
14		12
15	Versatile Blasting, Cold Iron 4	13	8d6
16	Imbue Invocation: Player's Choice, Dark Invocations	14
17		14	9d6
18	Fiendish Resilience 5	15
19	Cold Iron 5	16	10d6
20	Energy Resistance 10	17

Invocations (SLA): Save DC, if applicable: 10 + equivalent spell level + Charisma modifier. At level 6, 11, and 16, the Warlock 2.0 may retrain one Invocation known.

Eldritch Blast (SLA): Ray, 60 ft. ranged touch attack; attack action usable at will; no saving throw; half damage to objects; subject to spell resistance; not subject to damage reduction or energy resistances.

Eldritch Blasts and Iterative Attacks:
As a full-round action, a Warlock 2.0 may fire iterative Eldritch Blasts, according to her BAB. A Warlock 2.0 takes a successive -2 penalty to the Save DCs for effects tied to her Blasts Essences and Blast Shapes. A creature that has already been affected by or saved against a blast essence cannot be affected by a blast essence twice in one turn. However, normal damage from each blast applies.

Versatile Blasting: At level 15, a Warlock 2.0 may apply different shapes and essences to his iterative blasts. Again, the same rule applies: if a creature has been affected by, or saved against, the effects of any of the Warlock 2.0's eldritch blasts, it will not be affected a second time that turn by any of that warlock's eldritch essences. However, normal damage from each blast applies.

A blast essence that changes the nature of an eldritch blast (hellfire, vitriolic) applies to all blasts, but any extra damage can only affect a creature once. Thus, three iterative vitriolic blasts are made of acid, bypass SR, and deal extra damage on your next turn. However, any creature struck by a vitriolic blast will only be affected by extra damage as if they had been struck once. In the same way, if a creature is struck by a hellfire blast, that creature will take damage for each of the three iterative attacks, and then only once for the extra damage.

Example:
Morthos the level 15 Warlock can fire three iterative blasts, at a BAB of +11/+6/+1. For the purposes of this example only, the DC for all essences and shapes has the same DC. These DCs for three iterative attacks are 16/14/12.

He fires a Cone-Shaped Nauseating Blast at Creatures One and Two.
Creatures One and Two both fail their reflex saves. Creature One fails his fortitude save and is affected by the Nauseating essence. Creature two saves against the effect. Both Creatures take damage normally from the blast.

He then fires a Cone-Shaped Utterdark Blast. This strikes Creatures Two and Three. Both creatures fail their reflex saves (which had a DC with a -2 penalty, since this is the second iterative attack) and are struck by the Cone. Creature Two has already been affected by a Blast Essence this turn from Morthos, and so only takes normal damage. Creature Three, however, fails his save, takes 2 negative levels, and takes damage normally.

Morthos then turns his sights back on Creature One, firing a Cone-Shaped Sickening Blast against Creatures One and Four. Creature Four succeeds on a Reflex Save to evade the Cone-Shape, since the DC is now at a -4 penalty, and takes half damage from the blast. He fails his fortitude save (which also occured against a DC with a -4 penalty), however, and is affected. Creature One fails his save to evade the blast and takes full damage. Creature One has already been affected by Mortho's blast essences this turn, and so ignores the effect of the essence, even though it is a different blast essence than the one he failed his save against earlier this round.


Detect Magic: Use detect magic at will; caster level equal to class level

Damage Reduction: Cold iron: 1 at 3rd level; 2 at 7th; 3 at 11th; 4 at 15th; 5 at 19th

Deceive Item: Take 10 on Use Magic Device checks even if distracted or threatened

Fiendish Resilience: Once/day; free action; fast healing 2 mins. (1 at 8th lvl; 3 at 13th; 5 at 18th)

Energy Resistance: Choose two, cannot be changed; resistance 5 at 10th level, 10 at 20th lvl

Imbue Item: Create magic items even if spells required to make it are unknown

Imbue Invocation: Starting at 4th-level, you may apply metamagic to your Eldritch Blasts or Invocations. You may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.

Essences and Shapes (No plans to change these)

Spoiler

Least Blast Shape Invocations
□ ELDRITCH SPEAR: Blast range increases to 250 feet.
□ HIDEOUS BLOW: Melee attack channels eldritch blast.
Lesser Blast Shape Invocation
□ ELDRITCH CHAIN: Blast jumps from initial target to secondary targets.
Greater Blast Shape Invocation
□ ELDRITCH CONE: Blast takes the shape of a cone.
Dark Blast Shape Invocation
□ ELDRITCH DOOM: Blast affects all enemies within 20 feet.

Least Invocations

Spoiler

□ BALEFUL UTTERANCE: Speak word of the Dark Speech and shatter objects as the shatter spell.
□ BEGUILING INFLUENCE: Gain bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate
checks.
□ BREATH OF THE NIGHT: Create a fog cloud as the spell.
□ DARK ONE’S OWN LUCK: Gain a luck bonus on one type of saves.
□ DARKNESS: Use darkness as the spell.
□ DEVIL’S SIGHT: See normally in darkness and magical darkness.
□ EARTHEN GRASP: Use earthen grasp as the spell.
□ ENTROPIC WARDING: Deflect ranged attacks, leave no trail, prevent being
tracked by scent.
□ LEAPS AND BOUNDS: Gain bonus on Balance, Jump, and Tumble checks.
□ MIASMIC CLOUD: Create a cloud of mist that grants concealment, fatigues
those who enter.
□ SEE THE UNSEEN: Gain see invisibility as the spell and darkvision.
□ SPIDERWALK: Gain spider climb as the spell and you are immune to webs.
□ SUMMON SWARM: Use summon swarm as the spell.

Lesser Invocations

Spoiler

□ CHARM: Cause a single creature to regard you as a friend.
□ CURSE OF DESPAIR: Curse one creature as the bestow curse spell, or hinder
their attacks.
□ THE DEAD WALK: Create undead as the animate dead spell.
□ FELL FLIGHT: Gain a fly speed with good maneuverability.
□ FLEE THE SCENE: Use short-range dimension door as the spell, and leave
behind a major image that remains for one round.
□ HUNGRY DARKNESS: Create shadows filled with a swarm of bats.
□ STONY GRASP: Use stony grasp as the spell.
□ VOIDSENSE: Gain blindsense 30 feet.
□ VORACIOUS DISPELLING: Use dispel magic as the spell, causing damage to
creatures whose effects are dispelled.
□ WALK UNSEEN: Use invisibility (self only) as the spell.
□ WALL OF GLOOM: Use wall of gloom as the spell.

Greater Invocations

Spoiler

□ Plundering Dispel
□ CHILLING TENTACLES: Use Evard’s black tentacles as the spell, and deal extra
cold damage to creatures in the area.
□ DEVOUR MAGIC: Use targeted greater dispel magic with a touch and gain
temporary hit points based on the level of spells successfully dispelled.
□ ENERVATING SHADOW: Gain total concealment in dark areas and impose a
Strength penalty on adjacent living creatures.
□ TENACIOUS PLAGUE: Use insect plague as the spell, but the summoned
locust swarm deals damage as a magic weapon.
□ WALL OF PERILOUS FLAME: Create a wall of fire as the spell, but half the damage
from the wall results from supernatural power.
□ WARLOCK’S CALL: Use sending as the spell, but risk damage from recipient.

Dark Invocations

Spoiler

□ Sorcerous Gaze: Arcane Sight, Greater, as the spell.

□ DARK DISCORPORATION: Become a swarm of batlike shadows, gaining many
benefits of the swarm subtype.
□ DARK FORESIGHT: Use foresight as the spell, and communicate telepathically
with a close target of the effect.
□ PATH OF SHADOW: Use shadow walk as the spell and speed up natural
healing.
□ RETRIBUTIVE INVISIBILITY: Use greater invisibility as the spell (self only) that
deals damage in a burst if dispelled.
□ WORD OF CHANGING: Use baleful polymorph as the spell, but the effect
could become permanent.

[Eldan]

What I'd like to see would be more chaos instead of evil themed invocations, especially fey ones. Perhaps a few simple illusions, disguises, a few forest themed magics.

[Barbarian MD]

If you have any suggestions, or want to write one up, feel free! The numerical changes were the easy part--writing new invocations and figuring out which ones to cut or modify is going to take a little while longer, and I hear some lecture notes calling to me from the table.

[DaTedinator]

Also, pretty please, make the eldritch blast progression make sense, and just up it every odd level?

I like what you're doing here. The one thing I'm worried about is the iterative eldritch blasts. It's fine as long as there are no blast shapes involved, but firing off three Utterdark Dooms in a round, every round, as often as I want? I'd suggest either making it a blast shape invocation, or at the very least (not sure this would be a good fix, but it'd be something) have the save DC for area effects reduced by the iterative amount.

And then I don't necessarily disagree with it, I'm just curious what made you decide to up the HD.

[Barbarian MD]

I upped the HD?

Ah. All this time I thought Warlocks were D8... I'll run and change that.

[douglas]

Originally Posted by DaTedinator

Also, pretty please, make the eldritch blast progression make sense, and just up it every odd level?

Yes, the arbitrary slowing down at the end is rather odd and nonsensical.

Originally Posted by DaTedinator

I like what you're doing here. The one thing I'm worried about is the iterative eldritch blasts. It's fine as long as there are no blast shapes involved, but firing off three Utterdark Dooms in a round, every round, as often as I want?

At level 17, when casters have 9th level spells? I think it's just fine. Yes, this is pretty powerful for blasting, but blasting needs the boost unless you're pulling out extreme metamagic stacking with reduced costs, and that option isn't really available to a Warlock.

Originally Posted by DaTedinator

I'd suggest either making it a blast shape invocation, or at the very least (not sure this would be a good fix, but it'd be something) have the save DC for area effects reduced by the iterative amount.

Decreasing the save DCs for the iteratives with area blasts would be a good idea, though.

The access to meta-SLA effects should be spread out, not acquired all at once, and there should be some restrictions (possibly reduced at higher levels) on combining multiple meta-SLAs on the same blasts. Also, I'm not sure about the number of uses per day or all of them drawing from the same pool of uses.

[Random_person]

So what are you aiming for here, tier-wise? As I understand it, the old Warlock was high tier 4/low tier 3, and this rewrite looks like a big step up in power.

[Barbarian MD]

--Would you say a progressive -2 penalty on Save DCs for Eldritch Essences and Shapes

As in, Nauseating Blast 1: Full BAB, DC 10 + Invocation Level + Charisma
Nauseating Blast 2: Full BAB-5, DC 10 + Invocation Level + Charisma -2
Nauseating Blast 3: Full BAB-10, DC 10 + Invocation Level + Charisma -4

--I fixed the blast progression to every other level.

--I like the idea of spreading out the metamagic SLAs. I've no real idea how to spread them, but I'll give it some thought in a while and pull some numbers out of the air.

A couple of questions I'd like feedback on:

Should the DR/Cold Iron that a Warlock gets stack with the DR/Cold Iron that Fey get?

Would some sort of Invocation imitating Arcane Sight, or Arcane Sight, Greater be overpowered? It seems like it'd have perfect synergy with the Warlock's dispelling invocations.

[douglas]

Originally Posted by Random_person

So what are you aiming for here, tier-wise? As I understand it, the old Warlock was high tier 4/low tier 3, and this rewrite looks like a big step up in power.

I think mhvaughan is considering making a Warlock as a new character for a particular ongoing campaign he and I are both part of, and existing characters for that campaign are in the tier 2/high tier 3 range, mostly. The party damage dealers are, at level 11, consistently putting out multiple hundreds of damage per round.

Originally Posted by mhvaughan

--Would you say a progressive -2 penalty on Save DCs for Eldritch Essences and Shapes

As in, Nauseating Blast 1: Full BAB, DC 10 + Invocation Level + Charisma
Nauseating Blast 2: Full BAB-5, DC 10 + Invocation Level + Charisma -2
Nauseating Blast 3: Full BAB-10, DC 10 + Invocation Level + Charisma -4

Sounds about right to me.

Originally Posted by mhvaughan

Should the DR/Cold Iron that a Warlock gets stack with the DR/Cold Iron that Fey get?

It already does by RAW, I think, and I say it should.

Originally Posted by mhvaughan

Would some sort of Invocation imitating Arcane Sight, or Arcane Sight, Greater be overpowered? It seems like it'd have perfect synergy with the Warlock's dispelling invocations.

Not if you put it in the right category. Regular Arcane Sight would be fine as a Lesser invocation, I think, but I'd make Greater Arcane Sight a Dark invocation.

[Barbarian MD]

I added the Imbue Invocation ability. It advances every 4 levels, and allows you to metamagic an invocation (including EB) 3 + Charisma per day. You gain Heighten at 4 (to bypass SR), Empower at 8, Maximize at 12, and Quicken at 16. If someone has suggestions for different metamagic abilities, or a different progression, let me know.

(I know there are better metamagic choices out there, but I'm just not all that familiar with metamagic.)

[Eldan]

You could, of course, also make the more powerful shapes standard actions. It's questionable if that wouldn't be underpowered, though.

And as for making new invocations: I tried in the past, but I never got anything flavourful beyond "As spell X". So, not really something I can help you with. Fey Glamour would be fun.

[Stycotl]

first impressions (and by no means well thought out or super intelligent):

1––if you want to up the number of invocations, start at level one. give them two invocations at level one and work your way up from there.

2––don't try to balance against the watchtower group. balance against an existing class, even if it is tier 2 or so, and then, if we need to, we'll optimize in-game in order to bring it up to par with levi, kelurn, and the others.

3––i agree that the interatives should be a blast shape, as i've already mentioned in the game thread, but i am still open to it being part of the regular class mechanics. there should be some serious drawback to that though, to the point where it would be beneficial for a warlock to sometimes use a standard action blast (kind of like ToB made standard action attacks viable to melee types).

4––um, that might be it at the moment. i'll post more when i come up with more.

[Random_person]

And I've decided I like this so much I used it as the base for a prestige class I just made. Here.

[Barbarian MD]

Originally Posted by Stycotl

first impressions (and by no means well thought out or super intelligent):

1––if you want to up the number of invocations, start at level one. give them two invocations at level one and work your way up from there.

Sounds good to me. How many would you suggest having in total by level 20?

3––i agree that the interatives should be a blast shape, as i've already mentioned in the game thread, but i am still open to it being part of the regular class mechanics. there should be some serious drawback to that though, to the point where it would be beneficial for a warlock to sometimes use a standard action blast (kind of like ToB made standard action attacks viable to melee types).

So, two options here, I think:
1) Would be to make it a BLAST SHAPE, which prevents you from using the chain, cone, spear, and doom shapes.

I think that may be underpowered, in the end. My reasoning is that you would often find yourself in situations where you could deal more damage through the use of a chain, cone, or doom, and if you use reach on a fleeing creature, it will be about as effective as a slap across the face, since you're only hitting them with a single EB. I think this is especially true with the doom shape, which lets you hit every creature within a 20' radius. And a chain, while only dealing half damage to subsequent creatures, uses your highest BAB, and let's you hit two extra creatures for half damage, if I remember correctly.

As I think about it, this is somewhat mitigated by buffs. If you had haste up, you'd get four attacks at level 20, rather than just 3. Righteous Wrath of the Faithful would boost this to 4 attacks. And this is assuming a standard Warlock 2.0, rather than PrCs.

2) Make it a CLASS FEATURE, with three options that aren't necessarily exclusive:

a) penalize subsequent blasts. This is what I've built into it thus far. You take a cumulative -2 penalty on the save DCs for effects tied to your blasts after the first one (0/-2/-4/-6). We could even ramp it up if you think it needs it by decreasing the ability of subsequent blasts to penetrate SR by 1 or 2 points, cumulative (0/-1/-2/-3).

b) penalize all blasts when using iteratives. We could make it like flurry, which lets you make an extra attack, but at a -2 penalty to ALL attacks. So if you're BAB is +15/+10/+5, you could make a single attack at +15, or a full attack at +13/+8/+3. That's a simple method.

c) give a bonus to using single attacks, similar to martial maneuvers. Rather than penalize multiple blasts, I think consensus might be to increase the effects of a single blast. So instead of taking a penalty for a set of iterative blasts, we might give a bonus to spell penetration when you're using a single blast.

[Mulletmanalive]

Not that this is all that important, but there is a perfectly sensical reason as to why the Eldritch Blast progression was the way it was.

It has a spell level = Dice thing going on and Wizards didn't want 10th level effects happening before 21st level. Simple.

They probabaly reasoned that not boosting it was offset by Utterdark Blast anyway.

On actual mechanical terms, I'm more for seperating the two categories of invocation [blast and utility] and having seperate progressions. Maybe just as simple as the normal Warlock one for utility and 6 more over the 20 levels for blasting type things. One of each at first level.

I personally never found the Warlock underpowered, but then i don't play with a group of optimisers. My favourite trick was the Cone shape and that essence that knocks people over

[Latronis]

I'd like an option to have DR\Silver instead.

If you are concerned about iterative attacks you could just make it so that Eldritch essence invocations are always a standard action. Blast shapes are probably fine.

[Eldan]

I wouldn't differentiate between the two kinds of invocations: in my opinion, the choice between utility mage and blaster caster should be the player's.

That said, I second giving him a second invocation at level one.

[Anonymouswizard]

Maybe give them an ability to channel multiple essences/shapes into an eldritch blast by making them spend more time on it: first they can put two on, then for the third it increases up to a full-round action, then for four 1 round, than for each additional essence or shape make it take an extra round. I can't see warlocks using more than 3 or 4 invocations on an attack, and those are heavy blasters.

For invocations, maybe start it at 2 and do a 3/4+2 progression? this lets them gain a decent number of invocations (and, to be honest, many of the good lessers), as well as upping their tier.

[Barbarian MD]

I'd like to hear more opinions on making Eldritch Blast iterative. Is there consensus that it should be a class feature, or should it take the form of a blast shape? What penalties/bonuses should exist to encourage people to make single blasts? I want to hear a lot of opinions and well-thought out arguments before finalizing that particular feature. Thanks!

[Latronis]

Depends what you would allow with it.

The default blast as iterative is fine

even with blast shapes it's probably fine, though eldritch glaive may be potentially abuseable

the rest of the invocations though is likely too much, any dispels or save or suck effects become too good especially without any resource investment

[Barbarian MD]

So you're saying that iterative blasts + blast essences would be bad?

[DaTedinator]

I like the idea of giving a boost to single blasts, and otherwise using iterative blasts as you have them written.

I'd also like the option for DR/silver, given Devils (who have DR/silver) are the more stereotypical "businessmen" of the fiends (as in, selling your soul to them for power and such).

Actually, somewhat on that note, it might not be a bad idea to open up the alignment spectrum, given Complete Mage's precedents of Fey and Celestial warlocks.

[Barbarian MD]

Latronis, i just caught your meaning. I'm definitely not going to write in the ability to make iterative invocations, so don't worry. That'd be insane. (I'm currently dfferentiating between "invocations" and "essences". The design currently allows you to fire off three bewitching chain eldritch blasts, but not three chilling tentacles. The bewitching blast saves would follow a 0/-2/-4 penalty.)

You do bring up a good point--multiple save or fall/nauseated/etc might not be so hot, even with the proposed -2 penalty. Would it be a good idea to say that you may only apply a blast essence/shape to a single blast per round (or one essence on one blast and one shape on another blast, if you desired), and then the remainder of your iteratives would be normal blasts?

[Latronis]

Originally Posted by DaTedinator

Actually, somewhat on that note, it might not be a bad idea to open up the alignment spectrum, given Complete Mage's precedents of Fey and Celestial warlocks.

I like that idea.

If it were me I might be inclined to to make some kind of 'pact' path (the character need not be aware of the source) With class abilities somewhat defined by the source of the power.

Celestial, Fey, Abyssal, Infernal possibly dragon if you wanna lump the dragon fire adept in with it

[Barbarian MD]

I like the idea. If you have suggestions on how to flesh that out, i'd be happy to hear them!

[Latronis]

Depends how much work you want to do.

Resilience\resistance aswell as the damage reduction can vary based on the source. Perhaps some immunities, Obv Demons and Fey grant Cold Iron and Devils silver, though what celestials power would grant is a bit odd. Magic seems the most obvious but not really as useful as a material DR. Alternatively that could be based on alignment (chaotic = cold iron, lawful = silver, neutral = choose?) though that doesn't really fit in the paths either.

possibly the imbue invocation can vary, though that is perhaps a little stifling for the character. (eg. why can't my fey warlock use empower?!)

They could possibly choose from an alternative list of invocations. So you could have a standard warlock list, plus one for each source and they choose from those 2 lists. Alternatively use default invocation progression and have a 'power source' (like advanced learning) so they choose from the source list for invocations beyond the standard warlock.

[Eldan]

You'd need a broader spectrum of invocations, then. Those that are there tend heavily towards the chaotic and evil. I'd also sort them by alignment: Evil, Chaotic, Good, Lawful and Neutral Invocations. Or Invocations by pact, but many of them fit in several. All fiends and the Unseelie could use darkness, as an example.

[Mulletmanalive]

Is darkness evil or more chaos aligned? Never did really decide on that one...

I'd go for Iterative as a class feature but make the penalties to saves in line with the attack roll ones: More reliable damage but most likely significantly less of it...

[Eldan]

Well, devils are the ones who get perfect darkvision. Demons don't, if I'm not mistaken. On the other hand Pandemonium is really the darkest of all outer planes, all in all, and it's chaotic. So, evil, probably. The seelie fey don't seem to use darkness as much.

[Latronis]

Not too many demons or devils actually use darkness or better as spell like abilities either.