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Old 03-18-2010, 11:16 AM   Top  -  End  -  #1
dspeyer
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Default Iron Rain: ToB saturation archery

This is a result of the Refactoring ToB archery thread which is itself an outgrowth of the Age of Warriors thread. It is a remix of Fax's Falling Star and I_got_this_name's True Arrow with additions by DracoDei and myself. You do not need to know any of those threads to evaluate this discipline.

Iron Rain
You say "surrounded and outnumbered". I say "blessed with a target-rich environment".

Iron Rain is the archery school of speed, of sending arrows to blot out the sun. It is also the school of battle against armies. A single adept can stop a massed force if given a high and isolated place to shoot from, and if he becomes caught in melee he is not entirely helpless.

Key Skill: Spot
Weapons: Bows, Throwing Knives, Javelins, Repeating Crossbows
Classes: Crusader, Swordsage, Warblade, Eaglewing Striker, Spirit Archer, Thousand-Arrow Archer, Pragmatist

level 1
Archer's Evasion Boost - Avoid attacks of opportunity for movement
Soft Targetting Stance - Negate DR by Spot

level 2
Multiple Shot Boost - gain extra attack at BAB; take -2 penalty to BAB
Opportunist's Shot Counter - Take a ranged attack of opportunity
Dummy Shot Counter - make feint against opponent to gain temporary AC

level 3
Flanking Shot strike - Cause target to be flanked
Ride the Storm Stance - Avoid most negative effects of wind
Caltrop Arrows Counter - Impede an enemy's advance by putting arrowheads in front of his feat

level 4
Trick Shot Counter - make immediate disarm attempt against attacker
Alarming Alacrity Boost - Make an additional attack
Full Quiver Stance - Never run out of arrows

level 5
Strafe Stance - gain the ability to deal more damage when you move
Quicker than the Eye Strike - Attack ignores enemy's dexterity
Defense of the Iron Rain Stance - Provoke no attacks of opportunity for ranged attacks

level 6
Always Ready Counter - make a single ranged attack as an imediate action
Hit the crowd Strike - target a block of creatures as if they were one
Covering Fire Strike - Fill an area with arrows; automatically hit anyone that enters.

level 7
Hail of Arrows Strike - make full attack; gain three extra attacks
Intercepting Arrow Kata Stance - Block incoming arrows by shooting them with your own

level 8
Storm of Arrows Strike - shoot a number of arrows equal to your dexterity modifier at your full attack bonus
Supreme Efficiency Stance - reduce the penalty for iterative attacks to 3

level 9
Cyclone of Arrows Strike - shoot every enemy within one range increment


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Last edited by dspeyer : 01-08-2011 at 10:22 PM.
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Old 03-19-2010, 12:45 AM   Top  -  End  -  #2
PairO'Dice Lost
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Default Re: Iron Rain: ToB saturation archery

Two things. First, Archer's Evasion Boost seems to be a counter more than a boost, conceptually; remember that you can use an immediate action maneuver on your turn if desired.

Second, and more importantly, several of these maneuvers seems like they would fit better in your precision archery discipline better than this one--Intercepting Arrow Kata Stance is the textbook example of a very precise shot, and the various hit-someone-with-a-counter maneuvers seem more like precise shots than crowd control.
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Old 03-19-2010, 01:16 AM   Top  -  End  -  #3
DracoDei
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Default Re: Iron Rain: ToB saturation archery

Intercepting Arrow Kata is also supposed to involve shooting down a lot of things... if it didn't have the -5 penalty on the to-hit, and only worked against one attack that would be the more precise thing.
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Old 03-19-2010, 01:24 AM   Top  -  End  -  #4
PairO'Dice Lost
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Default Re: Iron Rain: ToB saturation archery

Quote:
Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
Intercepting Arrow Kata is also supposed to involve shooting down a lot of things... if it didn't have the -5 penalty on the to-hit, and only worked against one attack that would be the more precise thing.
It takes more precision to shoot down more things, not less simply because there are multiple targets. Saturation attacks generally involve putting a bunch of projectiles in the air in one general direction, not multiple instances of pinpoint accuracy. I'm not saying it definitely has to go, but it does seem a bit out of place.
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Last edited by PairO'Dice Lost : 03-19-2010 at 01:25 AM.
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Old 03-19-2010, 04:49 AM   Top  -  End  -  #5
elliott20
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Default Re: Iron Rain: ToB saturation archery

The thing is though, beyond just making MORE attacks, I'm not quite sure what else you can do with saturation range attacks.

Protection based ideas
Maybe instead of say, a maneuver that is using precision to stop a single projectile, you could say, use the maneuver and just shoot a TON of arrows out in front of you, giving you effectively half cover or something. (I also imagine a clause in there stipulating that half of these will expend a ton of ammunition in the process)

Range based
Maybe a series of maneuvers that allows you to shoot at a distance, and instead of making the normal AC attacks against individual targets, they become splash damage type attacks from just having the hail. (Probably will still need a range touch attack but still)

Actually, I like the idea of a splash damage type idea. Maybe that's an avenue we can work with?
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Old 03-19-2010, 09:12 AM   Top  -  End  -  #6
PairO'Dice Lost
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Default Re: Iron Rain: ToB saturation archery

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Originally Posted by elliott20 View Post
Protection based ideas
Maybe instead of say, a maneuver that is using precision to stop a single projectile, you could say, use the maneuver and just shoot a TON of arrows out in front of you, giving you effectively half cover or something. (I also imagine a clause in there stipulating that half of these will expend a ton of ammunition in the process)
That would definitely be more fitting fluff for a cover maneuver.

In addition to splash damage, a similar idea would be maneuvers that force Reflex saves instead of making attack rolls, as there are just so damn many arrows that they have to work to avoid them.
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Old 03-19-2010, 10:08 AM   Top  -  End  -  #7
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Default Re: Iron Rain: ToB saturation archery

Need some better names for these, obviously.

Rapid Stance: Each consecutive round in which you use a full attack action to fire arrows, you can deliver an additional attack at your full bab (+1 additional attack on the second round, +2 additional attacks on the 3rd round, and so on).

Full Quiver Stance: While in this stance, your bow magically creates arrows for you. Each full 4 initiator levels gives these arrows a +1 enhancement bonus.

Beehive Strike: Your arrow magically splits into several shafts in mid-flight. This can only be used with non-magical arrows; magical arrows lose their enchantment if fired using this strike. This should be resolved using the same basic mechanics as a modern shotgun.

Covering Fire Strike: You fire a large number of arrows over an area. This should be resolved using the suppression fire rules from d20 Modern (similar rules are in the squad shooting rules from Heroes of Battle, and the automatic rifle in the DMG).

Explosive Arrow Strike: The arrow explodes on contact, causing 1d6 points of fire damage in addition to the regular arrow damage.

Piercing Strike: The arrow magically ignores armour. Treat this as a touch attack for resolving the attack roll.

Guided Arrow Strike: You need not have line-of-sight to the target, but you must know exactly which square the target is in. You must be able to draw a line between yourself and the target, but this line can have any number of zig-zags and direction changes; the range is calculated based on this line. This can be used to effectively strike at an invisible target, provided you know which square it is in, or it can be used to attack an enemy behind a wall or around a corner.

If you are also able to see the target (perhaps by seeing his reflection, perhaps through a glass barrier), you gain an insight bonus equal to one-quarter of your Spot skill ranks (round down).

My Quiver is Full (counter): You can immediately create enough non-magical arrows to refill your quiver. If you give these created arrows to another person for him to use, hold, or carry, they immediately disappear.

Last edited by Ashtagon : 03-19-2010 at 02:35 PM.
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Old 03-20-2010, 06:50 PM   Top  -  End  -  #8
dspeyer
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Default Re: Iron Rain: ToB saturation archery

Quote:
Originally Posted by PairO'Dice Lost View Post
Two things. First, Archer's Evasion Boost seems to be a counter more than a boost, conceptually; remember that you can use an immediate action maneuver on your turn if desired.
A counter wouldn't be nearly as useful. That would protect you against one AoO. If you're surrounded and trying to get out, you need to avoid many.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PairO'Dice Lost View Post
...intercepting arrow kata...
It calls for precision, but also for speed. When you're trying to hit a moving target, you don't have time to line up the shot. Being able to shoot something really fast also falls within this discipline. The word "saturation" was just my attempt to fit into a subject line, not the entirety of the school.

It might be worth adding a similar maneuver to falcon's eye. Probably at a lower level, but as a strike that must be readied....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashtagon View Post
Rapid Stance: Each consecutive round in which you use a full attack action to fire arrows, you can deliver an additional attack at your full bab (+1 additional attack on the second round, +2 additional attacks on the 3rd round, and so on).
This seems abusable. Spend five rounds before battle making full attacks on a rock?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashtagon View Post
Full Quiver Stance: While in this stance, your bow magically creates arrows for you. Each full 4 initiator levels gives these arrows a +1 enhancement bonus.

My Quiver is Full (counter): You can immediately create enough non-magical arrows to refill your quiver. If you give these created arrows to another person for him to use, hold, or carry, they immediately disappear.
Probably don't need both, but useful....

This would be the only su manuever here, but would be much more useful to an iron rain practitioner than to a rising phoenix (or whatever we're calling it this week) practitioner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashtagon View Post
Beehive Strike: Your arrow magically splits into several shafts in mid-flight. This can only be used with non-magical arrows; magical arrows lose their enchantment if fired using this strike. This should be resolved using the same basic mechanics as a modern shotgun.
What mechanic is that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashtagon View Post
Covering Fire Strike: You fire a large number of arrows over an area. This should be resolved using the suppression fire rules from d20 Modern (similar rules are in the squad shooting rules from Heroes of Battle, and the automatic rifle in the DMG).
Suppressing fire sounds good. What are the rules for this? I don't have d20 modern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashtagon View Post
Explosive Arrow Strike: The arrow explodes on contact, causing 1d6 points of fire damage in addition to the regular arrow damage.

Piercing Strike: The arrow magically ignores armour. Treat this as a touch attack for resolving the attack roll.
IIRC, rising phoenix already has these.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashtagon View Post
Guided Arrow Strike: You need not have line-of-sight to the target, but you must know exactly which square the target is in. You must be able to draw a line between yourself and the target, but this line can have any number of zig-zags and direction changes; the range is calculated based on this line. This can be used to effectively strike at an invisible target, provided you know which square it is in, or it can be used to attack an enemy behind a wall or around a corner.

If you are also able to see the target (perhaps by seeing his reflection, perhaps through a glass barrier), you gain an insight bonus equal to one-quarter of your Spot skill ranks (round down).
This sounds like a more powerful Hidden Archery Stance, and that's already 8th level.
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Old 03-20-2010, 10:38 PM   Top  -  End  -  #9
PairO'Dice Lost
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Default Re: Iron Rain: ToB saturation archery

Quote:
Originally Posted by dspeyer View Post
A counter wouldn't be nearly as useful. That would protect you against one AoO. If you're surrounded and trying to get out, you need to avoid many.
A counter can last through multiple AoOs; there's no hard-and-fast rule as to what a counter has to protect against. It is fairly standard, however, that a counter is reactive and a boost is proactive, so if you're going to activate something to negate AoOs it should really be classified as a counter.
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Old 03-20-2010, 10:41 PM   Top  -  End  -  #10
DracoDei
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Default Re: Iron Rain: ToB saturation archery

Quote:
Originally Posted by dspeyer View Post
This sounds like a more powerful Hidden Archery Stance, and that's already 8th level.
Hidden Archery allows Strikes and Full-attacks... if that is a strike, and only does one arrow, then it is actually probably weaker.
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Old 03-21-2010, 02:36 AM   Top  -  End  -  #11
Ashtagon
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Default Re: Iron Rain: ToB saturation archery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashtagon View Post
Beehive Strike: Your arrow magically splits into several shafts in mid-flight. This can only be used with non-magical arrows; magical arrows lose their enchantment if fired using this strike. This should be resolved using the same basic mechanics as a modern shotgun.

What mechanic is that?
d20 Modern doesn't actually treat shotguns mechanically any different from any other firearm. The most common shotgun homebrews either treat it as a cone or line attack (don't do this; it's very unrealistic), or replace the range increment penalty to attack rolls with a range increment penalty to damage rolls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashtagon View Post
Covering Fire Strike: You fire a large number of arrows over an area. This should be resolved using the suppression fire rules from d20 Modern (similar rules are in the squad shooting rules from Heroes of Battle, and the automatic rifle in the DMG).
Suppressing fire sounds good. What are the rules for this? I don't have d20 modern.
d20 Modern's autofire rule is spend 10 shots and a full round action, pick a 10x10 ft area (or 5x20 if you have a specialist feat) and make an attack roll against AC 10. if you hit, everyone in the area must make a DC 15 Reflex save, or take the weapon's normal damage. I don't like this version of autofire, since is makes it easier to hit someone wearing armour.

Here is a modified version of Traveller T20's autofire rule. Spend a variable number of shots (dependent on the weapon for real guns; up to your initiator level multiplied by two for the initiator strike) and a full round action, pick a 90-degree cone out to a single range increment of your weapon. Discard half the shots spent and make one attack against each enemy in the area, up to the number of shots left. If you have any shots left over, until the start of your next turn, each time an enemy enters the area covered you may make an attack roll against that enemy.

----

And I thought of one more...

Blot out the Sun (Strike): Your arrow acts as a dispel magic effect against any spell or magical effect with the light descriptor that is centred on the target that is hit. Your initiator level is treated as a caster level for the purposes of this effect.
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Old 03-22-2010, 11:36 PM   Top  -  End  -  #12
dspeyer
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Default Re: Iron Rain: ToB saturation archery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashtagon View Post
Here is a modified version of Traveller T20's autofire rule. Spend a variable number of shots (dependent on the weapon for real guns; up to your initiator level multiplied by two for the initiator strike) and a full round action, pick a 90-degree cone out to a single range increment of your weapon. Discard half the shots spent and make one attack against each enemy in the area, up to the number of shots left. If you have any shots left over, until the start of your next turn, each time an enemy enters the area covered you may make an attack roll against that enemy.
This doesn't sound very effective here. A high-level enemy isn't likely to fear a single mundane arrow-shot, even with an enhancing stance.

It's a shame because this sounds like a good real-world description. In the real world, however, one shot can kill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashtagon View Post
Blot out the Sun (Strike): Your arrow acts as a dispel magic effect against any spell or magical effect with the light descriptor that is centred on the target that is hit. Your initiator level is treated as a caster level for the purposes of this effect.
Good name, but the actual behavior isn't iron rainish.
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Old 03-23-2010, 12:04 AM   Top  -  End  -  #13
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Default Re: Iron Rain: ToB saturation archery

So make that one Nightengale Feather? Or MAYBE make it a no-discipline maneuver that has pre-requisites of a certain number of maneuvers from each, but I don't know if we want to get that crazy with stuff that is intended to end up in AoW.
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Old 03-23-2010, 12:55 AM   Top  -  End  -  #14
elliott20
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Default Re: Iron Rain: ToB saturation archery

I'm not a fan of that last one. The reasoning itself is already a little questionable, and the mechanic portions of it just feels really clunky. This sounds almost like a highly circumstantial situation that a GM might be faced in a game rather than an actual established maneuver itself.

Plus, things that have active magical effects sound like would fit better in the domain of the spirit arrow (or whatever it's called) discipline.
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Old 03-23-2010, 02:52 AM   Top  -  End  -  #15
dspeyer
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Default Re: Iron Rain: ToB saturation archery

Full Quiver
Iron Rain (Stance)
Level: 4
Prerequisite: Three Iron Rain maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Stance

I stopped bothering to count my ammunition. Less work this way. Plus it means I never run out.

When you draw an ordinary arrow from your quiver in this stance, you may choose not to decrease the number of arrows remaining in your quiver. Arrows drawn this way must be fired immediately, or you drop them and they get lost somewhere they will never be found. You must have at least one ordinary arrow in your quiver to draw. You cannot draw magical or alchemical arrows this way, but you can draw them normally while in the stance. You can use this stance with javelins or throwing knives, so long as you keep them in a quiver or similar container.

This stance is a supernatural effect.

Covering Fire
Iron Rain (Strike)
Level: 6
Prerequisite: Three Iron Rain maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 full round action
Range: 1 range increment
Target: See text
Duration: One round

You fill a space with arrows, so that no sane attacker would enter it.

Draw a line away from yourself in any direction for a distance less than or equal to the range increment of your weapon. Those squares the line passes through are effected. All effected squares must be empty when you begin the maneuver. Any creature entering an effected square is automatically struck by three of your arrows (roll damage normally).
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Old 03-23-2010, 03:32 AM   Top  -  End  -  #16
Ashtagon
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Default Re: Iron Rain: ToB saturation archery

Quote:
Originally Posted by dspeyer View Post
This doesn't sound very effective here. A high-level enemy isn't likely to fear a single mundane arrow-shot, even with an enhancing stance.

It's a shame because this sounds like a good real-world description. In the real world, however, one shot can kill.
One other effect I didn't mention was that T20's autofire rules allow for doing huge amounts of extra damage with very high rate-of-fire weapons. Unfortunately, I don't think having 600+ shots per round would be all that believable, even for Iron Rain, so I left that bit out of the basic description.

Plus of course, basic bow damage sucks by RL standards. My attempt at houseruling bows increases their base damage substantially for 'modern' bows, in order to maintain a semblance of realism.

The primary purpose of the suppressive autofire rule is to suppress the low-level drones anyway, not get the BBEG. Against the BBEG, burst fire is the attack method of choice.

Last edited by Ashtagon : 03-23-2010 at 03:34 AM.
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Old 03-23-2010, 05:14 AM   Top  -  End  -  #17
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Default Re: Iron Rain: ToB saturation archery

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashtagon View Post
Rapid Stance: Each consecutive round in which you use a full attack action to fire arrows, you can deliver an additional attack at your full bab (+1 additional attack on the second round, +2 additional attacks on the 3rd round, and so on).

This seems abusable. Spend five rounds before battle making full attacks on a rock?
Fix: Any round in which you fail to hit a creature that is intent on harming you or your allies, the counter gets reset, back to zero.
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