New homebrew challenge for myself [need advice to get started] (Angelic Paragons)

[Sir_Chivalry]

Hello all, you may remember me as the guy who made all them disicple classes (or not, there's alot of homebrew out there, I don't mind). I'm planning a new project to design some new prestige classes.

In DnD, there are PrCs for the servants of archdukes of hell and demon princes. There are PrCs for the servants of the archon hebdomad and the eladrin star court. But there aren't any PrCs of the leaders of the angels. For that matter, there aren't angelic leaders for the five varieties of angels (astral, monadic, movanic, planetar and solar)

So my endeavour is two fold. First the easy part, assign angelic paragons to the five varieities of angels. Then, the hard part, design classes for these paragons similar to The Lion of Talisad or the Fist of Raziel.

So, I look to you guys for suggestions for what sort of angelic paragons to give to each angel variety, and then what sort of class each PrC should be tailored toward.

Solar-
Planetar-
Astral Deva-
Monadic Deva-
Movanic Deva-

Note: I did have an idea of using some of the archangels, but would that be appropriate?

[The Tygre]

Alright, just gonna' go ahead and toss these out. They're based on DiceFreaks A Light From on High.


Solar- Metatron (M), the Voice of the Heavens, Prince of the Seraphim
Planetar- Sandalphon (M), the Arm of the Heavens, Prince of the Seraphim
Astral Deva- Mikhail (M), the Herald of Courage
Monadic Deva- Uriel (M), the Herald of Death
Movanic Deva- Raphael (M), the Herald of Healing

Alternatively, any of the Devas could have Jibrael (F), the Herald of Joy. By all technical accounts, Metatron, Sandalphon, and Nafielon form the Sarim, the princes of the angels, so they have dominion over all Celestial-kind. As for Angels as a species, they work for the Heralds, Mikhail (Michael), Jibrael (Gabriel), Raphael, and Uriel.

[Sir_Chivalry]

Originally Posted by The Tygre

Alright, just gonna' go ahead and toss these out. They're based on DiceFreaks A Light From on High.


Solar- Metatron (M), the Voice of the Heavens, Prince of the Seraphim
Planetar- Sandalphon (M), the Arm of the Heavens, Prince of the Seraphim
Astral Deva- Mikhail (M), the Herald of Courage
Monadic Deva- Uriel (M), the Herald of Death
Movanic Deva- Raphael (M), the Herald of Healing

Alternatively, any of the Devas could have Jibrael (F), the Herald of Joy. By all technical accounts, Metatron, Sandalphon, and Nafielon form the Sarim, the princes of the angels, so they have dominion over all Celestial-kind. As for Angels as a species, they work for the Heralds, Mikhail (Michael), Jibrael (Gabriel), Raphael, and Uriel.

I was personally thinking of using Mikhail, Jibrael, Raphael, Uriel and Phanuel, with Mikhail as Solar Paragon, and so on down the list, but now that I've learned of Metatron and Sandalphon I think they would work better as the Solar and Planetar paragons. I don't quite know what to make of all of this.

Perhaps the hierarchy works like this

Princes
Metatron
Sandalphon
Nafielon

Heralds
Mikhael
Jibrael
Uriel
Raphael
Phanuel

With the Heralds being the ones who the PrCs are based on, or the Princes having PrC taken later in levels, like 15th level.

[Sir_Chivalry]

Okay, so after asking a few questions of St. Jude, I'm back to relaunch this project (with only half a month to spare before death).

I need to use non-real world names for these paragons, and there in lies the first challenge. Expect much in the coming days. Anyone got suggestions to start off with?

Perhaps ideals or something?

First idea for a name: Isamukemen (the japanese and basque words for courage, smushed into one word)

Angel of healers or doctors or something: Peoneir (a mash of a few pan-celtic names)

I also had a preliminary idea for a brawler PrC: Liazubuike, or perhaps Treasanerva (genderless or feminine names indicating strength)

[The Tygre]

Out of curiosity, why no real names? Religious conflict issues, or just looking to make your own mythos?

[arguskos]

Originally Posted by The Tygre

Out of curiosity, why no real names? Religious conflict issues, or just looking to make your own mythos?

See for yourself.

To elucidate: because Roland said so, pretty much.

[Sir_Chivalry]

Originally Posted by The Tygre

Out of curiosity, why no real names? Religious conflict issues, or just looking to make your own mythos?

See this thread

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151989

Ninja'd by my own thread!!!

[arguskos]

Originally Posted by Sir_Chivalry

See this thread

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151989

Ninja'd by my own thread!!!

That's how I roll.

Also, here, have a name generator that might aid you in getting some names for the paragons: Best namegen ever.

Personally, I use that or this to generate names and words.

[Sir_Chivalry]

Originally Posted by arguskos

That's how I roll.

Also, here, have a name generator that might aid you in getting some names for the paragons: Best namegen ever.

Personally, I use that or this to generate names and words.

Actually the two names I just made were made using Behind the Name!! Hooray for me, I'm ahead of the ball!

[arguskos]

Originally Posted by Sir_Chivalry

Actually the two names I just made were made using Behind the Name!! Hooray for me, I'm ahead of the ball!

Behind the Name is an excellent generator. I use it for my NPCs and characters all the time.

The other one is great for making new words for monsters, exotic materials and items, etc.

[The Tygre]

Hmm. Seems reasonable, especially for Gabriel and Michael, as they're synonymous with Islam and Catholicism, respectively. Shame though. They've got a lot more PR.

[Sir_Chivalry]

Commander of Isamukemen is up!

And that's the first one!

[Mulletmanalive]

I'm slightly confused by the stance on this one for the very simple reason that most of the demon names with the exception of Glasya are referred to in real life religions but whatever. Hell, Dispater is a corruption of a Hindu god's name...

Here are some meaningless but appropriate sounding names:

Seraphitus - Guardian of the Concept of "Holy"
Mezeotimus - He that rejoices in the Glory
Moriphractiel - He that rejoices in the manifold forms of creation
Agapeial - He that loves unconditionally
Scarumaiel - She whose valour exceeds all expectations

[The Tygre]

Actually Glasya was the name of a minor French witch goddess and Dispater was a Roman (Greek) underworld god.

...

Shutting up now.

[Sir_Chivalry]

Okay, I'm beginning work on the healer/doctor PrC. Any suggestions for abilties? I was thinking of using the craft (alchemy) skill in some way, something involving making medicine or other stuff.

[Tibbaerrohwen]

The reason the names for the demons could be used is because they are referenced in D&D, if I am not mistaken. In that case, D&D acts as a bridge between creeds and cultures with a more neutral stance, allowing us to reference it, even if it references relgion when we cannot.
If you're looking for craft (alchemy) skills/abilities to add to the PrC, while using a doctor type theme, infused with heavy magic, why not modify the Blood Draught or Bloood Component abilities from the Blood Magus? It might work well for a magiced docotr PrC. You could also draw inspiration from the Anoited Knight, from BoED.
Mulletmanalive mentioned one's aura creating a shield effect on their allies, in the Commander of Isamukemen thread. It may actually serve a better purpose with a doctor PrC. It could be used in much the same way as the Healing Kicker abilites from the Combat Medic Prc (HoB p. 99).

[Sir_Chivalry]

Okay, so I have seven angels planned out:

Isamukemen, planetar, Arcadia, paladin/courage support class, fights a war against the formians mainly

Peoneir, movadic, Bytopia, healing, ravages and small spellcasting, studies the both medicine and poison to find the common root of both, and hopes to use this to cure moral and fiendish infections too.

Agapeial, astral, Beastlands, skills class that gains the ability to access animal totems and fight spirits better, sends angels to cripple the gith, ethergaunt and shadar-kai armies, protecting the Material.

Treasanerva, monadic, Ysgard, brawler class that combines the physical and the supernatural to call forth evil to fight, a friend to all the elemental princes of good, who has fought against both the slaad and the elemental princes of evil

Scarumaiel, solar, Avalon (the demiplane between Elysium and the Outlands), warlock class able to put its own evil behind it, and force others to lose powers gained by evil as well, leader of the other ones above, holds court with many lesser good gods and pledges aid to their causes in exchange for aid to hers

Moriphractiel, unique angel, Pangea (the demiplane between Arborea and the Outlands), I don't know (ideas include a celestial dinosaur master, a hunter of evil animals and magical animals/aberrations), was stripped of his higher mind and celestial power by Seraphitus, and now lives in the eternally pre-historic demiplane of Pangea.

Seraphitus, unique fallen angel, Kun'Lun (the demiplane between Celestia and the Outlands), some sort of blackguard-esque class, but I'd guess it would be more skills based and less combat based, rebelled against the other angels and led an attack on Moriphractiel, stripping him of his essense. The other angels and the Hebdomad of Celestial dare not endanger the essense of the Lost One, so they do not attack him yet. Has a group of unique erinyes who are not from Baator, but instead are angels who fell with him.

[Sir_Chivalry]

Ascendant of Agapeil is up. Yay!

[Mulletmanalive]

I'm going to voice again the suggestion [i'm not sure who made it first] that this would probably be better served with a handful of angels that are exemplars of the virtues of Good, as per the guidelines placed in BoED.

The scheme based on the "breeds" of angels seems odd somehow, especially if the are placed in the Upper Planes as opposed to their tasked planes from the breed descriptions.

Perhaps picking say, the seven beatitudes, and assigning an angel to each would be more effective in finding guidelines for what these angels are supposed to be about. For instance, i have no idea what the first angel is supposed to be the angel OF...

[Sir_Chivalry]

Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive

I'm going to voice again the suggestion [i'm not sure who made it first] that this would probably be better served with a handful of angels that are exemplars of the virtues of Good, as per the guidelines placed in BoED.

The scheme based on the "breeds" of angels seems odd somehow, especially if the are placed in the Upper Planes as opposed to their tasked planes from the breed descriptions.

Perhaps picking say, the seven beatitudes, and assigning an angel to each would be more effective in finding guidelines for what these angels are supposed to be about. For instance, i have no idea what the first angel is supposed to be the angel OF...

What is Talisad the Guardinal of? What is Sealtiel the Archon of? They don't conform to a single thing, they are simply celestial paragons who do something. I came up with things these five angels do before I made them paragons of the five types of angel. Giving them a tye of angle simply expands their focus to actually affecting something in the planes.

For instance, Isamukemen, the first one, is the paragon of planetars because he is a) a planetar who ascended, most of these guys were one type of angel or another, and b) he defends against planar incursion by fiends and other malicious outsiders, exactly what planetars do, so naturally he'd keep them around. If that's not enough of a specialized role, that's what I've got this thread for. I can only think of so much at a time when I'm designing these classes without any previous material to help me. Got any suggestions for other things Isamukemen and Agapeial and the others could have inlfuence over portfolio-wise?

Working off the seven beatitudes doesn't work for two reasons. One for the reason this thread almost would have been locked (it's a religious thing) and two, there aren't seven good angelic paragons there, there are five. One's neutral and the other's evil.

[Sir_Chivalry]

So does anyone have any ideas for what the five main ones could represent besides the types of angels?

[Sir_Chivalry]

New class is up!!

Fury of Tresanerva

[The Tygre]

I just saw Avalon! Avalon, oh Avalon! Someone's been reading up on their alternative planes, I see. Heh. We'll make a Cager out of you yet.

[MythMage]

An excellently varied start, though I'm not a fan of the demiplanar realms and as mentioned they could use some filling out. I'll see if I can help at all.

Originally Posted by Sir_Chivalry

What is Talisad the Guardinal of? What is Sealtiel the Archon of? They don't conform to a single thing, they are simply celestial paragons who do something.

On the contrary, both have certain themes they adhere to. Talisid is an especial paragon of friendship and humility - indeed Book of Exalted Deeds takes several paragraphs to say that friendship is the special theme of the guardinal leadership in general and Talisid in particular. Sealtiel specializes in purity and the quest for enlightenment (as well as leading the heavenly military).

Selecting portfolios helps give direction to their organization and servants, attracting new recruits and inspiring those servants (and giving them more grandeur/scope/significance to impress and interest players).

Peoneir might be the angel of the balance of trial and mercy, scourging the wicked and delivering from suffering those who do not deserve it.
Agapeial of protection and prudence, promoting vigilance in the righteous and delivering the innocent from evil.
Treasanerva of creativity, rebellion, and exposing evil, calling out those who threaten the physical foundation of good lives.
Scarumaiel of redemption and acceptance.

Oh, and here's a link to A Light From on High that The Tygre mentioned: link. It might offer inspiration.

[Sir_Chivalry]

Originally Posted by MythMage

On the contrary, both have certain themes they adhere to (as do most very effective/evocative demons, angels, and the like). Talisid is an especial paragon of friendship and humility - indeed Book of Exalted Deeds takes pains to spend several paragraphs pointing out that friendship is the special theme of the guardinal leadership in general and Talisid in particular. Sealtiel specializes in purity and the quest for enlightenment (as well as leading the heavenly military). For clearer examples of good themes, I'd say check out the celestial rulers from A Light From on High (as mentioned by The Tygre) over here: link

Selecting portfolios helps give direction to their organization and servants, attracting new recruits and inspiring those servants.

Peoneir might be the angel of the balance of trial and mercy, scourging the wicked and delivering from suffering those who do not deserve it.
Agapeial of protection and prudence, promoting vigilance in the righteous and delivering the innocent from evil.
Treasanerva of creativity, rebellion, and exposing evil, calling out those who threaten the physical foundation of good lives.
Scarumaiel of redemption and acceptance.

That's all very interesting. You're right of course about themes being the right road to take. Do you have any suggestions concerning Isamukemen, Moriphractiel or Seraphitus? What concepts of good can be twisted to neutral (Moriphractiel) and evil (Seraphitus)?

Perhaps Seraphitus is excess? In terms of the Seven Deadlies, Lust, Gluttony and Greed all come from excess, as treading on Pride, Envy, Sloth and Wrath might put him too close to the archdevils.

Perhaps Moriphractiel, being angel of Pangea, represents the removal of good and evil, the lack of moral absolute in a world without civilization. OR maybe he's just the angel of DINOSAURS!!!

[MythMage]

There's nothing wrong with excess, but I don't know that it relates at all to what little you have already said of Seraphitus. As for Moriphractiel, simply removing good and evil is too vague and general. I wouldn't worry about making Seraphitus too much like archfiends - several archfiends are in fact fallen celestials anyway.

Personally, I'd play on uncomprehending innocence and selfish ignorance for the neutral and evil one, respectively, since that plays well into the plot of losing one's higher mind.

Moriphractiel I would call angel of passions, the visceral, emotional aspect of goodness. The pangs of love, the playful wish to pull a jovial prank, the urge of sympathy to help those in need. Joy, mutual delight, and others, together with the ease of mind to put it into effect in the world and balance negative emotions. With the theft of his mind, he is no longer so effective, as he cannot reason how to implement his desires. In light of this, his servants have become demoralized and fractured. Some have taken up his mindlessness as a significant shift in his portfolio, and embrace the ideal of innocence, attempting to avoid corruption from (and the negative emotions caused by) the society of sentient beings. In some cases, this has gone so far as to lead some of Moriphractiel's servants into evil, unreasonably fighting against civilization and civilized beings to the point of sabotage and murder of those who enter wilds chosen by Moriphractiel's followers.

Seraphitus could be the angel who decides ignorance is bliss, and tempts others into ignoring what they should not. He uses willing ignorance, hatred, intolerance, slander, propaganda, prejudice, and laziness. He stirs up those he can manipulate into serving him (wittingly or not) and distracts those he cannot with self-indulgence and petty concerns.

[Sir_Chivalry]

Originally Posted by MythMage

There's nothing wrong with excess, but I don't know that it relates at all to what little you have already said of Seraphitus. As for Moriphractiel, simply removing good and evil is too vague and general. I wouldn't worry about making Seraphitus too much like archfiends - several archfiends are in fact fallen celestials anyway.

Personally, I'd play on uncomprehending innocence and selfish ignorance for the neutral and evil one, respectively, since that plays well into the plot of losing one's higher mind.

Moriphractiel I would call angel of passions, the visceral, emotional aspect of goodness. The pangs of love, the playful wish to pull a jovial prank, the urge of sympathy to help those in need. Joy, mutual delight, and others, together with the ease of mind to put it into effect in the world and balance negative emotions. With the theft of his mind, he is no longer so effective, as he cannot reason how to implement his desires. In light of this, his servants have become demoralized and fractured. Some have taken up his mindlessness as a significant shift in his portfolio, and embrace the ideal of innocence, attempting to avoid corruption from (and the negative emotions caused by) the society of sentient beings. In some cases, this has gone so far as to lead some of Moriphractiel's servants into evil, unreasonably fighting against civilization and civilized beings to the point of sabotage and murder of those who enter wilds chosen by Moriphractiel's followers.

Seraphitus could be the angel who decides ignorance is bliss, and tempts others into ignoring what they should not. He uses willing ignorance, hatred, intolerance, slander, propaganda, prejudice, and laziness. He stirs up those he can manipulate into serving him (wittingly or not) and distracts those he cannot with self-indulgence and petty concerns.

Well that Seraphitus one is good, but I must especially commend you on the Moriphractiel one. I had sort of that idea, but your's is so well put. Sounds good.

Any ideas for Isamukemen?

[MythMage]

Thanks. I'm glad to help. :)

Well, Isamukemen seemed so straightforward as to not be worth mentioning: Courage. It's right there in the description. If you want more complexity/variety than that, perhaps fortitude? Or reform? Since he fights formians, whose modus operandi is to force other beings into slavery/unwanted social systems, perhaps he could champion the changing or replacing legal systems that neglect the sanctity and dignity of life.

[Sir_Chivalry]

New class up!

Physic of Peoneir

[Sir_Chivalry]

I've been wracking my brain trying to figure out, should Scarumaiel be a reformed fiend? Perhaps a pit fiend or (my fav) a myrmyxicus from the fiend folio (an aquatic demon, appropriate since she lives in Avalon, a watery island demiplane)

Any one have ideas?