Star Wars Saga Edition - Need some help building a jedi character

[Delta]

I'm playing in a new Star Wars IRC campaign, and I want to play a jedi. Now, I've never played Saga Edition before, so my knowledge is pretty limited there. A quick search didn't turn out much to help me, so I thought, with all the d20 knowledge around here, there has to be someone who can help me build a decent jedi character.

I'm open for every suggestion, my idea so far is more in the direction of a lightsaber melee fighter, so what's important to look out for such a character, what traps do I need to beware and so on?

[Dienekes]

SWSE is one of the most balanced games I can think of, and the most fun. If you want to be a jedi just focus on what you want. Look over the abilities and feats and take what sounds cool, generally it is.

I've heard technically the path to ultimate power is to be an incredibly heavy Force focused jedi but I've never yet encountered that problem.

Besides that, just take obvious progressions, the prestige classes are pretty laid out, the Jedi is all it claims to be but dipping into other classes can be useful for skills or something.

Also, I'd ask your GM for one houserule that I think adds a bit of flexibility. Make it so that when multiclassing you can choose to instead take a skill from the classes skill list instead of another of the starting feats.

[Mando Knight]

Pick a style and stick to it. Be sure to pepper your feats with Force Training to taste, as Force powers can make or break a matchup.

[KillianHawkeye]

Block and Deflect are both good talents. Check out the Jedi Knight prestige class for more lightsabery goodness. If you have access to the Jedi Academy Training Manual, there are some nifty [Lightsaber Technique] Force powers you can grab, as well as options for customizing your lightsaber.

Otherwise, have fun kicking Sith butt!

[Kiero]

Are you starting at 1st level? If not, you might get a lot of utility (with a small loss of combat power) out of starting Noble or Scout - especially if you're playing a human. Depending on whether you want face skills or technical/outdoor skills.

Otherwise make a choice as to whether you're a melee combatant, or a Force wizard. If melee, choose whether you're going Dex-focused, or Str-focused. Both work.

[Delta]

I'll be starting at 1st, yes. And I think I'll be going Dex-based melee fighter.

[The Big Dice]

If you're starting at 1st level, I'd seriously consider getting Deflect as your Talent. Being able to protect yourself against blaster fire is a must. Otherwise you're just bringing a sword to a gun fight, and that never ends well.

For your Feat, Weapons Finesse is obvious if you want to be a Dex based melee type. But you also face a choice between Force Training or Skill Focus (Use the Force). Personally, I'd play a Human and get Skill Focus (UTF) and Force Training. You can get Weapon Finesse at 2nd level as a Bonus Feat.

For Force Powers, I'd get Move Object, which is good at low levels and gets very powerful as you improve. Add in Surge to close the gap and get into melee with theose blaster users and you're good to go.

[Kiero]

For the sake of everyone else, I really hope your GM has banned Skill Focus: Use the Force at first level. It's cheesy.

[Binks]

What books? Not super important at first level (1 talent and only 1-2 feats) but still might matter. Do you have Jedi Academy Training manual available? That books great for jedi, especially melee jedi, since it introduced what amounts to 'force powers for melee users' in the form of lightsaber powers.

You'll want a lot of Dex then probably a good amount of Cha/Wis. Talents-wise deflect is always a good choice, another possibility (this is what one of my players did) is to get a standard lightsaber and a shoto then get the Shoto Focus talent (from jedi academy). So long as you wield both and just attack with the shoto you get +2 attack. Then you can build towards having the dual-weapon fighting feats to get more attacks. Feats-wise you can't go wrong with weapon focus (lightsabers). If you're going two-weapons then Dual-weapon fighting 1 is a good choice to build towards future feats, alternatively Force Training could be useful, especially with Battle Strike and a lightsaber form (I'd recommend twin strike if you're going with two weapons).

Humans are probably the best species for jedi, though if you want to go another one that's generally fine (it matters a lot more if you go force wizard since you can really use an extra general feat). Amusingly enough ewok's can be a great choice for a dex-heavy jedi fighter :P. +2 dex, -2 str (who cares?), and small sized means you can duel wield shoto's as one-handed weapons, gaining the benefits of shoto focus on both blades

For later progression you'll want to take a look at the Jedi Knight a prestige class. If you're going dex melee you'll definitely want the Ataru talent and it has the absolutely awesome Twin-weapon style talent which lets you attack with two different weapons as a standard action rather than a full.

[Lycan 01]

Originally Posted by Kiero

For the sake of everyone else, I really hope your GM has banned Skill Focus: Use the Force at first level. It's cheesy.

I agree.

Its hard to go wrong with Jedi. And its easy to break the game with them. Or maybe I was just a bad GM. Well, I was new to the game, and didn't know what I was doing. Which is how 2 of my Jedi players ended up with a +15 and +17 Use the Force mod at level 5.

IIRC, they had +3 Wis Mod, +2 for half level, 5 for Skill Training, and 5 for Skill Focus. They NEVER failed ANY Force checks, and breezed through everything I threw at them. There was no Rule 0'ing or bending the rules to get around it, either, since one of the players was a major Rules Lawyer who claimed everything they did was perfectly legal by the rulebook, and who argued when I tried to work around their uber-Jedi-ness.

GMing Star Wars was never fun to me, needless to say...

[KillianHawkeye]

Originally Posted by Lycan 01

I agree.

Its hard to go wrong with Jedi. And its easy to break the game with them. Or maybe I was just a bad GM. Well, I was new to the game, and didn't know what I was doing. Which is how 2 of my Jedi players ended up with a +15 and +17 Use the Force mod at level 5.

IIRC, they had +3 Wis Mod, +2 for half level, 5 for Skill Training, and 5 for Skill Focus. They NEVER failed ANY Force checks, and breezed through everything I threw at them. There was no Rule 0'ing or bending the rules to get around it, either, since one of the players was a major Rules Lawyer who claimed everything they did was perfectly legal by the rulebook, and who argued when I tried to work around their uber-Jedi-ness.

GMing Star Wars was never fun to me, needless to say...

Man, I know exactly how you feel.

[Katana_Geldar]

Had a similar argument over skill focus with a player recently, he wanted to take it twice for different skills. Told him that he had to take one of them off but he could take it again at level 10.

When he groaned I pointed out that I could have banned it from the game. There's no rule that says you have to follow ALL the rules.

[KillianHawkeye]

Originally Posted by Katana_Geldar

Had a similar argument over skill focus with a player recently, he wanted to take it twice for different skills. Told him that he had to take one of them off but he could take it again at level 10.

When he groaned I pointed out that I could have banned it from the game. There's no rule that says you have to follow ALL the rules.

Really it's only a problem with the Use the Force skill, which you use to directly attack your opponent's Defenses (via Force powers). So if he wanted to take Skill Focus in Pilot and Use Computer (for example), I don't see anything wrong with that.

[The Big Dice]

Originally Posted by Kiero

For the sake of everyone else, I really hope your GM has banned Skill Focus: Use the Force at first level. It's cheesy.

It's cheesy, but then Jedi are useless against things like flamethrowers, grenades and autofire. And most of their powers are relatively short ranged, like 12 squares or so.

If you get close, Jedi are going to carve you up. On the other hand, a CTK sniper will kill them every time.

[Kiero]

Originally Posted by The Big Dice

It's cheesy, but then Jedi are useless against things like flamethrowers, grenades and autofire. And most of their powers are relatively short ranged, like 12 squares or so.

If you get close, Jedi are going to carve you up. On the other hand, a CTK sniper will kill them every time.

I said ban it at 1st level, not for the entirety of the game. It's massively overpowered at low levels.

[Person_Man]

Like everything, your build and powers depends on what you want to do. But in general, SWSE rewards multi-classing. Starting with Scout, Scoundrel, or Noble will give you much better starting skills and feats then a Jedi. Multiclassing gives you more Talents. And multiclassing lets you cherry pick the best Talents.

A standard untouchable Jedi build goes something like Scout 1/Jedi 1-3/Scout 2-5/Scoundrel 1/Jedi Knight X/Jedi Master Y. This gives you Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, Fringe Savant (all Scout), Block, Deflect (Jedi), Fool's Luck (Scoundrel), Skill Focus Use the Force (feat), Soresu, Shii-Cho, (Lightsaber Forms, and yes, you can use more then one at a time) + Serenity (Jedi Master).

Evasion + Uncanny Dodge + Block + Defense + lightsaber forms gives you untouchably strong defenses.

Everything else is geared toward improving your Force Powers, which are the true source of awesomeness in this game. Fringe Savant gives you extra Force Points which can be used to fuel Fool's Luck, which in turn drastically improves your Use the Force Skill. Serenity lets you Take 20 on a Use the Force roll (although you're Helpless for one round) which is very potent when used intelligently.

The most uber Force powers are Move Object, Negate Energy, and Rebuke, though you can get away with not having them until higher levels, since Move Object damage won't be that high and Rebuke won't be used that often until you get much more powerful.

You could also take a level of Force Disciple to be immune to all Mind Affecting effects, though I've found that someone with a high Will Save and Rebuke doesn't really need it very often. You can trade out a few levels of Scout for Gunslinger instead to get Uncanny Dodge, especially if you want to go with a gun in one hand and a lightsaber in the other. You can also take a few levels Soldier later in your progression for Improved Armored Defense. (It's not really useful at low levels). This will boost your Reflex and Fort defenses even higher, especially if you ever find and defeat a bounty hunter with teched up armor that you can take.

Whatever you do, make sure you qualify for Master at the earliest possible opportunity. Serenity is wildly important at for space battles and out of combat force powers.

[Delta]

The problem with that is that I'll be starting at first level and I really want to play a Jedi, so I guess I'll have to start with Jedi 1 (have to talk to my GM about this, so maybe we'll find a way to start as a kind of "jedi-in-training" at 1st level and take Jedi on 2nd)

He already told me that I'd be free to take Skill Focus (Use the Force) as a 1st level feat, so I guess it'd be pretty stupid not to take it if I start out as a jedi, right?

[Delta]

Just spoke to my GM, he told me it'd be alright to start out with a different class, but I don't think Noble or Scout would be viable choices given my character background, only possibility would be to start out as Scoundrel. Would that be worth it?

I'm allowed to use stuff from any Saga sourcebook I want, so I guess I'll have to take a look at the Jedi Academy Manual.

[Person_Man]

Originally Posted by Delta

The problem with that is that I'll be starting at first level and I really want to play a Jedi, so I guess I'll have to start with Jedi 1 (have to talk to my GM about this, so maybe we'll find a way to start as a kind of "jedi-in-training" at 1st level and take Jedi on 2nd)

He already told me that I'd be free to take Skill Focus (Use the Force) as a 1st level feat, so I guess it'd be pretty stupid not to take it if I start out as a jedi, right?

Keep in mind that fluff does not equal crunch. The Jedi class does not have exclusive access to the Use the Force Skill and Force Powers, and taking a level of the Jedi class does not mean you're automatically Padawan of the Jedi Order. (For example, Sith might take levels of Jedi). So you could start as a Scoundrel 1 but still be a member of the Jedi Order. Or you could just be a Force Sensitive who befriends another Jedi in your party, and then joins the Jedi Order. (Like Anakin, Luke, Leia, etc).

Originally Posted by Delta

Just spoke to my GM, he told me it'd be alright to start out with a different class, but I don't think Noble or Scout would be viable choices given my character background, only possibility would be to start out as Scoundrel. Would that be worth it?

Yes, Scoundrel gets the best starting Skills.

[Delta]

Just so I get this right, when I start out as Scoundrel, it'd be best to take either Force Sensitivity or Weapon proficiency (lightsaber) as a starting feat, because I'll get only one of those when levelling into Jedi, is that correct?

The way I read it, Force Sensitivity would be the obvious choice because I need it to have Use the Force as a class skill and choose it as a trained skill at start, right?

So I'll have 30 point buy for my stats, what would be a good array for this?

[OldFart]

If you were starting as Scoundrel, I would recommend taking Force Sensitive and Force Training (if Human) as starting feats.

You can take WP: Lightsaber at second level when multi-classing into Jedi, at which point, as others have mentioned, Deflect is your best option for a class talent.

I'd recommend Fool's Luck as the class talent for scoundrel, as spending a Force point to add +5 to your UTF check for an encounter will allow yourself and your GM some level of foreshadowing for the absolute horror that taking Skill Focus: Use the Force at third level will be.

And yes, at 3rd level, UTF +5(trained)+5(skill focus)+5 (fools luck)+1 (level)+Cha bonus is absolute Limburger.

[Delta]

Any suggestions concerning the stats? I really got a hard time deciding what priorities to assign to Dex/Wis/Cha, I guess I'll leave Str at 10 but that still leaves Con and Int (for skills...) to be decided as well.

[Jarveiyan]

Counter to what others are saying, unless you intend to take redirect shot don't take deflect or block. Being that you said your going to be playing a dex type jedi your dex is going to be your main stat which effects your reflex defense and at higher levels that score will be high enough to make it a problem to make those deflect or block rolls.

On the other hand with that in mind weapon finesse, ataru, lightsaber form powers(if your allowed to use JATM), weapon focus/spec, greater weapon focus/spec, I would look into jedi talents like lightsaber defense, or any other talent you figure you might want.

Some powers out of the corebook you might want to look at are force grip, move object, surge, battlestrike, negate energy, mind trick, rebuke.

Stat wise(if your still thinking about being a dex fighter type) I would go Str 10 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 13 Cha 13. And taking skill focus (utf) at some point would make sense. you should have enough ability points to add over the levels if you want higher wis or charisma.

[OldFart]

SWSE, like all games of the genre, is very skills-focused. Let's look at the stats for each skill:

Looking at the stats for each skill:
Int-9 (7 Knowledges); Dex-5; Cha-4 (including Use the Force); Wis-3; Str-3; Con-1

Restricting the list to the 18 class skills for a Force-Sensitive Scoundrel:
Int-9; Dex-4; Cha-4; Wis-1; Str-0; Con-0

I'd still recommend a high Wis, as it dictates # of Force Powers/Force Training feat and adds to Will Defense.

Cha is, of course, the stat the most useful skill for a Jedi is based on. Absolutely required if you want to go the "Consular" route of Jedi Diplomat, which Scoundrel gives you the "face" skills for.

Con is only useful in terms of Fort Def - you'll heal much faster than any non-force sensitive with force trance, so you don't need it for HP over multiple encounters. As for single encounters - well, one picks either high HP (Soldier/Jedi), high skills (Scoundrel/Noble) or mix (Scout) at first level, and your Con won't change that much for the next few several levels - by which point, ability adds and the right feats can make up for a low Con.

Dex is always good, as Reflex Def is most used/targeted in the game. And it's to-hit stat for ranged combat, and you'll probably never see a fight where someone doesn't pull a blaster (hint: most of the force powers that help you swing a lightsaber also help you fire a blaster)

Int is never bad. Don't forget that a) you get adds in *two* ability scores every four levels b) Int add are retro-active for number of trained skills c) class skills are cumulative totals based on whatever classes you have. So if there's a skill you want that's not on the scoundrel list, take an odd-number Int, multi-class in a class that has it as a class skill before 4th level, raise Int at 4th, train skill.

Str is actually useful for melee builds - most lightsaber users are melee builds. There is a Jedi Knight talent (Ataru) that makes Str completely unnecessary. But you can't get it until 9th level, so ask yourself if you can wait that long before completely dumping Str.

[Delta]

Well, following your post, I need every stat, that's not very helpful I fear :( Do you have a suggestion how to pull if off with 30 pb?

[Dienekes]

As a point of balance Jedi require the most stats. Since you want to be more lightsaber focused I'd say: Wis>Dex>Cha>Con and Int>>>Str. Wisdom gives you more bang for your buck when picking Force Training, Dex for hitting things obviously, and Charisma just behind. Charisma is important but with Skill Focus and Fool's Luck you can make up for it. Con and Int are both good to have, I'd place Con a little ahead of Int since you're going to be out in the battlefield swing your funky sword around. Int on the other hand is great for getting skills, however you don't seem to be focusing on being the skill monkey so if you have a skill focused ally you won't be needing the huge list of skills as much. Str can be dumped.

[Delta]

Would Str 10/Dex 14/Con 12/Int 12/Wis 14/Cha 14 be a playable build? I know it's not optimized, but it's really hard to get a lot out of 30 bp if you have hardly any dump stats...

[sparky22]

That's only 28pb. Personally, I'd go:

Str 10, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 14, Cha 13

1 - Scoundrel - Force Training, Force Sensitive - Talent
2 - Jedi - Weapon Proficiency (Lightsabers) - Deflect
3 - Jedi - Skill Focus (UtF), Weapon Finesse

I don't have books to hand, so I haven't chosen a Scoundrel talent.

Originally Posted by OldFart

I'd recommend Fool's Luck as the class talent for scoundrel, as spending a Force point to add +5 to your UTF check for an encounter will allow yourself and your GM some level of foreshadowing for the absolute horror that taking Skill Focus: Use the Force at third level will be.

And yes, at 3rd level, UTF +5(trained)+5(skill focus)+5 (fools luck)+1 (level)+Cha bonus is absolute Limburger.

As per the errata, Fool's Luck is a competence bonus and doesn't stack with Skill Focus.

[Tamwym]

On a related note: How do you stop them? Im running a game and everyone in my 5 person party chose to be jedi... Now; only 1 of them is smart enough to take skill focus (utf)... but he is thus far completely dominateing; and i have overheard 2 of them talking about taking it at the next level... How do I stop this madness?
So far I have been able to stop them by making "bosses" unarmed fighters (ever heard of counter punch?) or making them stealth snipers... but this can't last forever.
(party is currenly at level 5)

[The Glyphstone]

Cortosis armor? Ysalmiri? other (evil) Jedi? Probably depends on what era you're in.