[D&D 3.5] Blowing up the Action Economy with Spellblade Tennis

[Mushroom Ninja]

Originally Posted by Brock Samson

Proceed to nuke planet. As a monk.

Obviously Monk is overpowered.

[Tackyhillbillu]

This + plane where time goes extremely fast + Warforged = ???

[Brock Samson]

Yes. Demi-plane of fast-time FILLED with these warforged minions = nigh-limitless spell-network of destruction to be called upon.

[Private-Prinny]

More importantly, couldn't two Warforged put armor spikes on themselves, enchant them, and then go crazy all on their own?

Just buy a couple wands of Magic Missile, and suddenly you can do this.

[JeminiZero]

Originally Posted by Brock Samson

So.... you pay/enslave a few level 1 warforged commoners to do this, give them each a spellblade with something like magic missle stored, give them all eternal wands of magic missle, have them UMD assuming they'll then add 1 spell every 10 days/wand (2 tries/day means rolling a 20 every 10 days). Come back to them centuries later when you're epic level and have to face some monstrosity no one could destroy, and steal the built-up spell-network they've been doing. Proceed to nuke planet. As a monk.

Level 1 Magic Missle can be stopped by a little SR. Instead try using Searing Lesser Orbs of Fire (level 2, No SR, almost certain damage).

Also, since you are parking them somewhere, it makes more sense to use tippy-esque self-resetting traps to fill up the battery of power.

Edit: Added this suggestion to the first post.

[Swordgleam]

Seems like a classy high-level wizard could have pairs of constructs doing this in front of each entrance to his lair. They pretend to be statues until someone tries to get by, and then, boom. Might not be the most efficient trap, but still a cool one.

[Flickerdart]

You'd have to make the spells Invisible, then, so people don't catch on to the fireballs being flung across the hallway.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Originally Posted by JeminiZero

Also, since you are parking them somewhere, it makes more sense to use tippy-esque self-resetting traps to fill up the battery of power.

You'd still need some minions to do the spell redirecting, but traps would definitely work as a source of spells.

[Swordgleam]

Originally Posted by Flickerdart

You'd have to make the spells Invisible, then, so people don't catch on to the fireballs being flung across the hallway.

That gives me an even better idea: just keep them doing that. Maybe even a row of them. I assume if you walk into a fireball, it's just as bad as if it were targeted at you.

[Flickerdart]

Nah, the "machine" casts the spell at the other receiver, with no heed for what's in between. The repeated volley of spells could dissuade would-be intruders though.

[Swordgleam]

That's what I mean. If you have an entire hallway filled with statues each flinging 10 fireballs at one another per round, it doesn't really matter if the fireballs are aimed at anything.

[balistafreak]

I'm not sure: it's magical fire. I don't think a fireball actually damages anything until it hits. Like a modern torpedo, for example. If it hits something that isn't its intended target, it just breaks (usually).

So no, a hallway full of fireball slinging statues wouldn't be harmful. I'm not even sure if it would be intimidating. It might even make a fun amusement.

"And now, children, here we have the Hallway of Infinite Fireballs. You see, if our highly-trained-and-qualified wizards cast Fireballs on these statues, they just bounce around forever! Now, now, you don't have to worry - unless these statues are specifically ordered, the fireballs won't hurt you - look! But if our boss decided one day to go to war against those evil goblins, he'd get these statues to come to life, and all that fire would be directed towards those monsters... and it would burn..."

"Next up, we have the Fountain of Infinite Wine..."

/tourguide

[JeminiZero]

Originally Posted by Swordgleam

That gives me an even better idea: just keep them doing that. Maybe even a row of them. I assume if you walk into a fireball, it's just as bad as if it were targeted at you.

Actually, since Fireball is not a targetted spell, it cannot be put into a Spellblade.

Originally Posted by Private-Prinny

Just buy a couple wands of Magic Missile, and suddenly you can do this.

Alternatively, try the following:
1. Grab Spell Thematics. This feat lets you shape the physical manifestation of your spell according to a given theme. Make your searing orbs of fire look like Neon Green Drills (or something else).
2. Build up a spell battery of Searing Drills of Fire.
3. When facing down your apocalyptic enemy, throw it all at him while shouting Giga Drill Breaker.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

If someone TWF'd a pair of Spellblades set to the same spell, would you have a duplication effect? Thus, if you targeted him with Spell X, would BOTH spellswords automatically trigger and store the spell, for double the fun?

If so, this could get silly quick...

[The Rabbler]

Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost

If someone TWF'd a pair of Spellblades set to the same spell, would you have a duplication effect? Thus, if you targeted him with Spell X, would BOTH spellswords automatically trigger and store the spell, for double the fun?

If so, this could get silly quick...

technically you can target yourself with spells...

wouldn't it get absorbed by the same spellblade that launched it?

therefore storing itself forever in only one spellblade?

[Adumbration]

Originally Posted by JeminiZero

Actually, since Fireball is not a targetted spell, it cannot be put into a Spellblade.

Umm. Neither are orb spells or scorching rays? (IIRC, away from books)

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Originally Posted by Adumbration

Umm. Neither are orb spells or scorching rays? (IIRC, away from books)

Yea, in fact both require ranged touch attacks against said target.

[JeminiZero]

Originally Posted by The Rabbler

technically you can target yourself with spells...

wouldn't it get absorbed by the same spellblade that launched it?

therefore storing itself forever in only one spellblade?

The wording of Spellblade is that when you are targetted by the spell, the blade absorbs it, and you can "direct it at a new target". The term "new target" can probably be construed to mean "sent at something other than original target (you)".

Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost

If someone TWF'd a pair of Spellblades set to the same spell, would you have a duplication effect? Thus, if you targeted him with Spell X, would BOTH spellswords automatically trigger and store the spell, for double the fun?

If so, this could get silly quick...

Indeed it would. However the description of spellblade states that it absorbs the spell, and that the wielder can then redirect it (rather than being targetted by the spell simply activating the weapon). In view of this, even if you TWF spellblades, when targetted by the spell, it is more likely that only one weapon absorbs the spell.

I have tried to make infinite loops out of this, but unfortunately the Lens of Ray Doubling only works 9 times.

Originally Posted by Adumbration

Umm. Neither are orb spells or scorching rays? (IIRC, away from books)

The orb spells apparently do not specify a target in the header segment, but does state that you aim the orb at a target in the text description.

[Random_person]

Why make an infinite loop out of this? As I said earlier, just direct an infinite loop into it in the first place, as with the Arcane Fusion sorcerer tricks.

[Aharon]

@Orb
that doesn't change that it doesn't have a target... If you're using infinite free action silliness, you shouldn't argue that a spell that doesn't have a target line in its header is targeted. There are probably enough targeted spells to use this with, anyway.

[Emmerask]

Originally Posted by Adumbration

Umm. Neither are orb spells or scorching rays? (IIRC, away from books)

Orb spells are not magical after creation so they should not be bouncable anyway

[JeminiZero]

Originally Posted by Random_person

Why make an infinite loop out of this? As I said earlier, just direct an infinite loop into it in the first place, as with the Arcane Fusion sorcerer tricks.

What is this Arcane Fusion trick you are referring to?

Originally Posted by Aharon

@Orb
that doesn't change that it doesn't have a target... If you're using infinite free action silliness, you shouldn't argue that a spell that doesn't have a target line in its header is targeted. There are probably enough targeted spells to use this with, anyway.

It could be argued either way. There are a lot of implications with Orbs not being targetted spells. Not least the fact that they cannot be blocked by magical defences that specifically fend off targetted spells (namely the ever popular spell turning, effulgent epuration) which makes Tippy's Cindy even scarier.

[term1nally s1ck]

J-Z:

Arcane Fusion + Sanctum spell lets you cast an Arcane Fusion within an arcane fusion. Which is within an arcane fusion.

Infinite L1 spells.

[Person_Man]

DM would probably Rule 0 this. But it's still a great find.

At low-mid levels when the range of spells is a non-trivial issue, two party members could work together to "relay" a spell forward. This lets the caster stand back from combat, while the Meat Shield stays in front.

And I'm not sure how it's worded, but if the Spellblade lets the blade's holder roll to attack with the spell, then you could also theoretically use it to improve the To-Hit on a spell. Caster with piss poor BAB attacks friend with targeted spell. Friendly Meat Shield lets the caster hit him. Then the next round the Meat Shield attacks the true enemy with the spell, but with his awesome BAB and Str or Dex.

[2xMachina]

I load the arbalest, you fire it.

[herrhauptmann]

Originally Posted by balistafreak

I'm not sure: it's magical fire. I don't think a fireball actually damages anything until it hits. Like a modern torpedo, for example. If it hits something that isn't its intended target, it just breaks (usually).

You point your finger and determine the range (distance and height) at which the fireball is to burst. A glowing, pea-sized bead streaks from the pointing digit and, unless it impacts upon a material body or solid barrier prior to attaining the prescribed range, blossoms into the fireball at that point. (An early impact results in an early detonation.) If you attempt to send the bead through a narrow passage, such as through an arrow slit, you must “hit” the opening with a ranged touch attack, or else the bead strikes the barrier and detonates prematurely.

Getting in between the statues would cause a detonation for each one that struck you. But getting hit by one wouldn't cause the others to go off. That's a line for a necklace of fireballs.

If you're a swiftblade, you could boost this up to infinite levels a bit faster. Before their capstone, they get the ability to use a full round action, AND a standard action when under the effect of their own haste. That's two spells a round. Great, just what the SB needs, another way to go supernova. The quickened timestop + DBF + Cloudkill + everything else is already a good way to spend all your slots within 2 encounters.

[herrhauptmann]

A followup question to this thread.

What spell would everyone say is best for the intended use of this enchantment?
I don't think the writers intended you to play tennis to build this up to ridiculous proportions. Though I do like the "I load, you fire" idea of giving it to the party beatstick.

Personally, I'd probably put it on a dagger or something for my Casters, and have the triggering spell be feeblemind. That penalty to the save for arcane casters makes me nervous, and a DM who would feeblemind the only person in the party able to remove it, is a DM who would build an NPC with high enough DC's that an autopass is unlikely.

[term1nally s1ck]

Greater Dispel Magic. Or something like that.

I'd probably grab spellblades for anything that breaks my character's build.

[herrhauptmann]

So I guess targeted spells that are Save or Die, Save or Lose, and Save and still suck. But a lot of the ones which spring to mind for me are aura or area effects. Like blasphemy

Not sure I'd use it on dispel/greater dispel. At least for a warrior character. It's the area effect version which greatly screws a warrior. The targeted spell affects the spells on a creature, can be used to dismiss a summoned creature, or to dispel an individual item.
The spell blade can't be used against the area effect, and the counterspell version I think is the most common use of dispel/greater dispel.

[PhoenixRivers]

Doesn't work. Effects such as a Ring of Spell-Battle, which alter the target, allow a spellblade to absorb. However, effects such as Spell turning, and other redirections, don't change the target. Just the effect.

Since the Spellblade only works on spells that target the wielder, other spells that are redirected from a spellblade are not eligible to be absorbed by another spellblade.