Okay, so a friend of mine and I were talking about this yesterday. What would happen if Wolverine got injected with "the cure". His adamantium coating on his bones isn't part of his mutant-ness I know, so he wouln't lose that, but what about the claws? Would they dissapear? Would they still be there but he would just lose the abillity to make them go in and out? My friend said that in the comics once, Magneto pulled all the adamantium out of his body and he still had claws made of bone. That would mean that they are part of his mutation but if that's the case, would the bone dissapear and he would just have hollow claws made out of adamantium? Would he still be able to retract those?
As far as the movies are concerned, it's the exact same thing as beast. Yes, his physiology would revert to that of a normal human, aka, no claws. The titanium would most likely still be there, but not attatched to bones he can naturally control anymore...as for the comics, though, I've heard it murmured that both Wolverine and Beast might actually be "real" humans, from tribes of some sort that weren't modified with the X factor. Though I assume "the cure" to which you refer to is the movie version, so there you have it.
The comics once had a situation where Wolverine lost his powers. He kept his claws, but lost his ability to regenerate. This meant that whenever he snikt his claws out, he'd start bleeding and would have to heal naturally. Suffice to say he lost a lot of blood each time he got into a fight.
As far as the movies are concerned, it's the exact same thing as beast. Yes, his physiology would revert to that of a normal human, aka, no claws. The titanium would most likely still be there, but not attatched to bones he can naturally control anymore...as for the comics, though, I've heard it murmured that both Wolverine and Beast might actually be "real" humans, from tribes of some sort that weren't modified with the X factor. Though I assume "the cure" to which you refer to is the movie version, so there you have it.
Actually, Beast's blue fur is a secondary mutation, for the first comics, he had no fur, just unnatural acrobatic abilities. And also, Marvel did a Wolverine history comic series for a few, and he grew up on a farm but left because he couldn't get close to the women he loved. And, I believe Beast grew up in New York... or somewhere close to there.
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Originally Posted by The Vorpal Tribble
The claws are still attached to tendons and the like and would *still work, but sure, he'd half bleed to death each time.
Yes, since the bones are from a mutation, they are an actual physical power, thus the ''cure" would only affect his ability to regenerate. *And, though I don't know from first-hand experience, having bones burst through your knuckles would hurt a hell of a lot, and most likely result in your death.
Also, I believe that once in the comics, someone asked Wolverine whether it hurt when they burst through, and he goes "hurts every time" as he *shings* them out. *That may have been in the movie...
Wolverine is not invulnerable to pain, he's just used to it by now.
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As far as the movies are concerned, it's the exact same thing as beast. Yes, his physiology would revert to that of a normal human, aka, no claws. The titanium would most likely still be there, but not attatched to bones he can naturally control anymore...as for the comics, though, I've heard it murmured that both Wolverine and Beast might actually be "real" humans, from tribes of some sort that weren't modified with the X factor. Though I assume "the cure" to which you refer to is the movie version, so there you have it.
The first place I actually heard about "the cure" was in Joss Whedon's series of X-Men comics (I think it was called Astonishing X-Men but I'm not sure about that). I only read the first TPB though and never got the chance to see anything after that (if anything after that has even been written yet).
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Originally Posted by percyprune
The comics once had a situation where Wolverine lost his powers. He kept his claws, but lost his ability to regenerate. This meant that whenever he snikt his claws out, he'd start bleeding and would have to heal naturally. Suffice to say he lost a lot of blood each time he got into a fight.
I know that would happen since he'd lose his healing factor but I'm wondering if he could even make them come out still.
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Originally Posted by anphorus
Also adamantium is a highly toxic substance, so unless that was removed before he was injected with the cure, the metal inside of him would kill him.
Are you talking about the adamantium in the comics? I know that adamantium is a metal used in a lot of fictional writing and I don't remember any mention of it being toxic in the Marvel-verse. Maybe you're thinking of it in something else.
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Originally Posted by The Vorpal Tribble
The claws are still attached to tendons and the like and would *still work, but sure, he'd half bleed to death each time.
I don't know if that's true. They are attatched to tendons, but are they normal tendons that everyone has or did he grow special ones for controlling his claws as part of his mutation? I think that it's likely the latter, in which case the tendons wouldn't still be there after he was had "the cure" administered to him. Just like if Angel was injected, all his wing muscles would go away.
Well the problem is, does the "cure" actualy remove mutantly grown muscle systems, that were there sence birth, or does it only remove the awakend powers of the x facter
Also there was a time in the cartoon were they enterd the savage land, and Mr. Sinister had set up a device that nullified the powers of mutants, so wolverne couldnt heal but he could still pop out his claws, and he didnt die of posining
Though i do wonder how he could stand as he has to have super strength just enough to lift himself but not enough to do anything else with it.
It was shown when he had his adamantem removed by magneto that he was physicaly stronger when his powers started coming back, but he also started turning into that weird beast form, untill he got the metal back. And apprently his healing facter numbs the pain but the first time he poped his claws out after having the metal riped out of him he blead all over and doubled over in pain.
Are you talking about the adamantium in the comics? I know that adamantium is a metal used in a lot of fictional writing and I don't remember any mention of it being toxic in the Marvel-verse. Maybe you're thinking of it in something else.
No I'm positive it was in the comics. The reason why Wolverine's regenerative powers (and his senses) became stronger when his adamantium was removed was because his body was constantly healing the adamantium poisoning in his system which was effectively weakening his powers.
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Originally Posted by SpiderMew
Though i do wonder how he could stand as he has to have super strength just enough to lift himself but not enough to do anything else with it.
I don't think his strength is part of his mutation, I think it's just because of the adamantium on his skeleton. Kind of like being under constant weight training, which brings him to the peak of human strength (kind of like Captain America). I could be wrong about this one though.
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Also there was a time in the cartoon were they enterd the savage land, and Mr. Sinister had set up a device that nullified the powers of mutants, so wolverne couldnt heal but he could still pop out his claws, and he didnt die of posining
The problem is, the cartoon was written before the removal of the adamantium occured in the comics - and it was only after that happened that Wolvie was retconned into having the claws being part of his mutation (he ehadn't had the claws in any pre-weapon X program flashback before then). That was one of the reasons it seemed so odd going from what had reguarly been drawn as razor-thin metal blades into finger thick bone ones, taht were obviously vastly larger than previous, when logically they should have been smaller.
Strength part of his mutation - I've always taken it that his strength was due to his mutation due to the fact he can overstretch his muscles under stress repetedly, wheras a normal human could only do it once. Like a grandma being able to lift a car to save a child's life, only all the time since it fixes itself afterwards.
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Wolvie doesn't really have a superhuman level of strength. What he has is a. muscles that are constantly rebuilding themselves in a manner to avoid fatigue and damage and b. a skeleton that can support vast pressure and stress. It is skeletal shortfalls, not muscular shortfalls, that prevent RL elite athletes from reaching crazy levels of strength. The muscles themselves (by whatever natural or chemical means) can get bigger, stronger, faster twitching, but the connective tissue and supporting structure will still fail. Adamantium takes care of that issue.
These considerations make Wolvie about as strong as Capt. America, though one is through a magic potion and the other through skeletal strengthening. They both have luxury of ignoring fatigue.
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No I'm positive it was in the comics. The reason why Wolverine's regenerative powers (and his senses) became stronger when his adamantium was removed was because his body was constantly healing the adamantium poisoning in his system which was effectively weakening his powers.
Hmm, I guess I learned something new today then.
Okay, so assuming that he didn't die of radiation, how would his claws work?
According to Wikipedia, he does have super strength but it's unclear how much because the comics contradict themselves on that matter (each author seems to want it different).
Also, I think it was Apocolypse who ripped the adamantium out. Then they found it he had bone claws. All his healing factor went into recovering from all the years of poisoning the adamantium had been giving him, and the fact that he just had a skeletal support ripped out. As such, when the adamantium was put back on, his healing powers had actually got stronger.
And the "every time" comment is X Men 1. Rogue asks him.
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Originally Posted by Cogwheel
Also, are you even human any more, or did you just transcend into some sort of in-joke singularity?
Actually, Beast's blue fur is a secondary mutation, for the first comics, he had no fur, just unnatural acrobatic abilities. *And also, Marvel did a Wolverine history comic series for a few, and he grew up on a farm but left because he couldn't get close to the women he loved. And, I believe Beast grew up in New York... *or somewhere close to there.
This is the movies, though, not the comics. This, in fact, most likely hold no weight then. Honest truth is we don't know. And, out of curiosity, where did all that come from? I never mentioned anything about Beast's past, jsut that his big, blue mutatedhand turned into a small, normal human hand when it got near that boy.
Also, I'm not entirely sure about the whole tendons still being attatcked to the claws w/o the power, either. I guess they chose to portray it that way, but it doesn't make any sense to me since humans don't normally have muscles to extend and retract claws, which Wolverine did and controlled his adamantium coated claws with. W/o his mutation it seems these particular muscles would no longer exist...
I'm not entirely sure about the whole tendons still being attatcked to the claws w/o the power, either. I guess they chose to portray it that way, but it doesn't make any sense to me since humans don't normally have muscles to extend and retract claws, which Wolverine did and controlled his adamantium coated claws with. W/o his mutation it seems these particular muscles would no longer exist...
That's what I was thinking.
And for a brief summary of Wolverine's past, go here.
Magneto, Deadly Attractions, X-Men #75
Its on the cover,even. ::)
Just to pick a nit, it was Issue #25, otherwise you are correct. I had to run and check my long boxes to be sure. That was when The Prof turned Magneto into a vegetable for awhile as well.
Wolverine has hadhis powers stripped away orsupressed several times over the years and it's never a pretty sight. wethe or not his claws were ever natural has long been a subject of debate, The current cannon says yes, the claws are "natural" and were coated with metal when his bones were. Dont sweat how they are drawn, that has differed with every artist
As a mostly irrelevant aside, i was pleased to see howwell my old comics have held up. They look as good as the day I bought em, or very near. That's darn good for 15 years in storage.
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Just to pick a nit, it was Issue #25, otherwise you are correct. I had to run and check my long boxes to be sure. That was when The Prof turned Magneto into a vegetable for awhile as well.
Yeah, okay. #75 didn't sound right in my head. It had a hologram on it, didn't it?
I don't think that his claws would go away if all that was removed was the mutating catalyst or gene. If I grew a third arm because of a "thrid arm" gene, then "shut off" the 3rd arm gene, it wouldn't reverse the growth process. The physical matter is there and doesn't just crawl back or cease to exist.
If I grow a tumor and then go through chemo, I doubt that the tumor would reverse it's growth.
Where does the mutation reversal stop? How many "steps"? If it actually changes the established physical characteristics, then wouldn't ALL mutations be reversed...effectively reversing any and all evolutionary processes? What IS the "normal" state of a human being, then, for this reversal to arbitrarily "go back" to, if the assumption is that humans have only reached their current status as organisms through mutation?
If they depicted this in the movie, and it's part of the movies "science", then fine...it's their baby. I'm just saying...
Okay, so assuming that he didn't die of radiation, how would his claws work?
According to Wikipedia, he does have super strength but it's unclear how much because the comics contradict themselves on that matter (each author seems to want it different).
According to the Marvel website, Logan has the strength of a normal human who exercises regularly.
i seem to remember wolverine naturally having healing abilities and claws of bone untill he got injected
Injected with what? He never actually lost his claws of bone or healing factor (for any appreciable amount of time), so what do you mean by "until"? (He did get his claws broken off by Cyber, but they grew back.)
He lived the life of a normal person up until his mutant gene activated during his early teens back...well, over a hundred years ago. He first popped his claws by accident after seeing his father get gunned down. (I believe it was Sabertooth's father that shot his dad?) After that, his heightened senses and healing factor started kicking in full force, but before then, he was a sickly, weak child.
Yeah, okay. #75 didn't sound right in my head. It had a hologram on it, didn't it?
Yes it did. Marvel was doing LOTS ofthose gimmick covers back then.
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I don't think that his claws would go away if all that was removed was the mutating catalyst or gene. If I grew a third arm because of a "thrid arm" gene, then "shut off" the 3rd arm gene, it wouldn't reverse the growth process. The physical matter is there and doesn't just crawl back or cease to exist.
That's what I thought, but on the movie (which is the biggest source of info on "the cure" so far), Beast lost his fur when he was exposed to it, and Mystique lost her blue skin. It completely reverses it.
That's what I thought, but on the movie (which is the biggest source of info on "the cure" so far), Beast lost his fur when he was exposed to it, and Mystique lost her blue skin. It completely reverses it.
Speaking of Mystique, I wonder what she will do when she gets her mutant powers back. Will she return to the loyalty she had to Magneto, or will she recall that he betrayed her?
*It wasn't a secondary mutation, it was a laboratory accident.
Hmm, must have been in a different series that it was a secondary mutation, it's very hard to argue X-Men because of this.... :P
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Originally Posted by amodman
This is the movies, though, not the comics. This, in fact, most likely hold no weight then. Honest truth is we don't know. And, out of curiosity, where did all that come from? I never mentioned anything about Beast's past, jsut that his big, blue mutatedhand turned into a small, normal human hand when it got near that boy.
You were talking about how maybe Beast + Wolverine may have been from a tribe of people like them, I was saying that wouldn't work because they already have histories, and Beast had his fur as a newer thing, so there wouldn't have been a tribe of big furry beasts. Unless that's not what you meant...
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"'There aren't any beginnings,' Burton said. 'Nor any ends.
It seems to me that man has engaged in a blind and fearful struggle out of
a past he can't remember, into a future he can't foresee nor understand.
And man has met and defeated every obstacle, every enemy except one.
He cannot win over himself.'"
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