Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

[Magikeeper]

Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos

Knew I was forgetting something (or somethings, in this case).
Actually, though, the first point may be entirely unnecessary for 2 reasons.
1: It doesn't make sense. While I know that gameplay trumps internal consistency, it isn't like this guy is shaping a fireball around his friends. A bit of otherworldly energy appears in his form as he transforms and that freaks people out. How would one go about actively deciding that his friends aren't freaked out?

Well, having the horror on your side might even be calming. Like "oh really? Maybe you should meet my good friend CTHULHU!” What enemy is going to be more screwed up than your ally the Ozodrin? “Oh look, it has 3 mouths and tentacles. I see that each night at dinner.” Can you argue it the other way? Yes. But this way also supports gameplay.

2: This is my actual point, namely that letting this guy shaken party members doesn't really hurt them at all. Keep in mind that once somebody has saved, they are immune to 24 hours. That means that this guy can keep revealing his form until everybody's made a successful save each morning and that they'll be completely unaffected for the rest of the day. It actually works out pretty nicely.

And this makes sense how? "Well Bob, you've seen this 1,000 times over the years, but I guess we should do your morning Immunizations".
Seriously, give me a reason it makes sense that does not also invalidate the 24hr immunity. One that is less contrived than the horror-on-your-side idea.

[Realms of Chaos]

Interesting point. I could probably come up with an answer to that (involving a slight shift in the very existance of those affected by your power as the powers from beyond all planes that temporarily renders them inured to such forces) but I'd say that there is a 0% chance that it what Owrthro had in mind.

At the same time, though, "using the horror" doesn't quite stand up either. The essence of an ozodrin (if I understand it) isn't a simple weapon that's only scary when it's pointed at you. Instead, I'm picturing it to be the primal essence of insanity, death, and decay from the far realms. Though someone can learn to overcome a specific fear (such as a fear of spiders or fire), this guy is using fear itself in its oldest and most primal form, a form of fear so ancient and pernicious that it isn't even conceivable to simply "get used to it", even after centuries, unless your incapable of feeling fear in the first place. Taking your example of using Cthulhu, you may feel confident having such a force on your side but you're brain will still implode the moment that you look at him. It's just how he works.

That said, the 24 hour limit still sounds exceedingly strange but it was already there and looked like a standard balancing feature. *shrugs*

[Epsilon Rose]

Could you just say that after they've been traveling with it for so long they're treated as having the immunity from saving for as long as they're traveling together (unless they become enemies at which point they realize what they're going to have to fight and make saves as normal) and if they part ways for an extended period, say a couple of days, they have to get used to it again?

[Realms of Chaos]

Even assuming that years of travel together could help someone adapt to an ozodrin, that fix would rely on the assumption that the entire party has been travelling with the ozodrin already. What happens when a DM wants to introduce the party to each other in-game... or when a new player/helpful NPC joins the party?

[Owrtho]

Well, the 24 hour immunity thing was just done mainly as a balancer since most such abilities have it. As for an in game explanation, my thoughts on it were somewhat similar to Realm of Chaos's. If you made the save, the sight still actually affected you, but your mind has managed to adjust to keep functioning normally. After about a day though you manage to 'recover', thus the loss of immunity.

As for it affecting allies, I'll point out you could just have them not look at you while you change. I mean, I think if you travelled together for a while they'd get used to looking away when combat started (while enemies not prepared would likely fail to do so).

As for the eye suggestions, those seem to work fairly well. For the spawn, all I can really think of moving to level 19 is the rapid spawn, and perhaps the planned augment I mentioned a few posts back.

Owrtho

[Tacitus]

Well mechanically I'd say give allies aware of the impending change (ie, seen it once maybe?) a 50% chance of avoiding the effect and completely ignore it if they purposefully make some mention of Averting their Gaze akin to the Gaze Attack mechanics. It doesn't translate 100%, but with a few tweaks on wording and mentions of intent behind the avoidance would give allies an easier time of it.

[Magikeeper]

As facing does not exist in D&D, gaze attacks are the only things you can really avert your eyes from without DM houserules.

I dislike an ability that requires the DM of a group to make it work. Homebrew that needs a DM to make it work - at level one - is far worse as it hurts the class' chances of being used. Friendly fire at level 1 whenever you use your class abilities is NOT a good first impression.

Now, you could add a line about averting your eyes to avoid the effect. Then it is RAW supported and the DM doesn't need to make sense of it themselves. Have it be 100% - we need to support gameplay somehow. 50% only means it hurts the party less often, which is not enough for a group game. This is an ability the Ozodrin needs to use to use its other class abilities, it can't avoid using it.

[Realms of Chaos]

Hmmm... there is one possible solution that I was going to suggest.
As the essence of the far realms leaking out of this guy is what freaks them out rather than any specific mutation to their form, why not restrict it to a given area (say, a 20- or 30-foot radius) rather than making it simply anybody who sees him?
That way, you could simply have the guy move out of range (or have the party move out of range) to transform without penalty to your friends. Though there is still possibility for friendly fire, the same exists for any area effect so this isn't the worst thing ever.

[Magikeeper]

Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos

That way, you could simply have the guy move out of range (or have the party move out of range) to transform without penalty to your friends. Though there is still possibility for friendly fire, the same exists for any area effect so this isn't the worst thing ever.

It is not the same! If you are in an enclosed area and wish to change your features, the party will be effected. This is a minor effect, but it is tied to your main class ability. Like if changing a marshal aura smacked every ally with a -2. Is it the end of the world? No. Will it single-handidly put the other players in a bad mood concerning this (homebrew) class? Yes. Does it require the party/you to work around a penalty disguised as a benefit? Yes. If you always do this farther away than 20-30ft from the party then it is pointless anyway unless your entire party are long-distance fighters and you don't fight in close quarters.

So we are back to the morning thing - assuming new Ozodrin player X realizes he needs to find a work around for his basic class ability to change features. Otherwise he will unleash in combat and have an "Oh crap" moment, after which everyone else will have a negative opinion of the class.

In other words, this ability comes up too soon and too often for it to be worth this hassle.


I've always imagined this ability working like frightful presence, which only effects opponents. It also has an added benefit of not requiring any leakage-flavor, which I'm not sure all DMs would be on board with. Frightful presence is cool and it works.

Although I do support a range of like, 5ft per class level (Assuming it only effects opponents).

[Markus Darkmind]

Maybe it's a bit silly but... If the Ozodrin can change shape and in that way call out the untamed horror of the Far Realm, and given that he has full control over this shape... Couldn't he just decide which creatures are affected? Somthing like, the ones he chooses actually see only a "natural" version of his shape, clouded by his very own willpower, so as to be observed without great problems... Kinda like Zeus, that decided not to show his deific form to mortals who couldn't bear it.

This way, if needed, you could also choose to affect your former allies should something go.... wrong (In the game my master is running right now every character is fairly evil and we don't always go along that well... I believe in some situations every one should be prepared to face their companions at the best of their capabilities, let's say that even in a good campaign, they are dominated or the like...)

[Realms of Chaos]

Wait a moment. Why are we even still arguing over this?

Your primary issue with the ability seems to be that it hinders allies.
I argued that by "innoculating" allies, this will never ever come up.
You argued that the concept of innoculating allies is rediculous
Owrthro, creater of the class, gave justification for how innoculating allies would work.

The argument logically ends there as the one point that really cheesed you off is avoided through a process ("innoculation") that was justified by Owrthro himself.

• Wizards study
• Clerics pray
• Ozodrin help attune their friends to the otherworldly energies that they channel through their bodies.

It's just part of preparation in the morning, not something that would EVER come up in combat. What's the problem here?

[Magikeeper]

Edit: I support Markus Darkmind's idea.

---------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos

The argument logically ends there as the one point that really cheesed you off is avoided through a process ("innoculation") that was justified by Owrthro himself.

• Wizards study
• Clerics pray
• Ozodrin help attune their friends to the otherworldly energies that they channel through their bodies.

It's just part of preparation in the morning, not something that would EVER come up in combat. What's the problem here?

No.
Wizards study by raw.
Clerics pray by raw.
Ozodrins need to perform an action not noted in the class to avoid hurting fellow party members.

Fine, add an "Ozodrins usually..." line to make it clear. Otherwise someone will forget, or won't notice that it hits allies, and the class looks bad. Homebrew is an uphill battle and this is an absurd reason to shoot itself in the foot.

Forcing players to work around class features at level 1 like some sort of trap is not going to end well.


...On another note, I have a feeling that this is going to be really annoying in city campaigns or anything RP heavy. Do Ozodrins really need this penalty? Edit: Use D.M's idea!

------------------------------------

[Epsilon Rose]

I too vote for Darkminds idea or an adaption there of.

[Realms of Chaos]

Did not notice D.M.s idea either. It is totally awesome and makes sense. YAY!

[Owrtho]

That is possible, but perhaps something along the lines of only being able to leave out people who have had to make the save at least once before. So the first time you use the ability around an ally, you can't leave them out, but any time after you can.

Edit: I added the two basic eye augments, moved blindsight to level 7, and added the spawn augment (requires level 19, also moved rapid spawn to level 19).

Owrtho

[Epsilon Rose]

Am I the only one who wants to try using the spawn to make Vashta Nerada?

[Magikeeper]

Originally Posted by Owrtho

That is possible, but perhaps something along the lines of only being able to leave out people who have had to make the save at least once before. So the first time you use the ability around an ally, you can't leave them out, but any time after you can.

Why? Really, why would that be worth it? That would make questionable sense with the ability to leave people out, and it doesn't make the class more fun or really improve anything at all. It isn't even for the flavor aspect since it is an arguable point.

[Markus Darkmind]

Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos

Did not notice D.M.s idea either. It is totally awesome and makes sense. YAY!

Yay! Glad to have helped...

On a side note. I thought of something. If the Ozodrin can use Sinister Image for manifesting itself from a simple picture, couldn't it work with part of his body, too? Let's say someone took a sample of his blood or something... Maybe it could be a feat?

And a question. When one takes the Cerbrant Horror feat, his high casting score doesn't give him any benefit, does it?

[Owrtho]

Originally Posted by Magikeeper

Why? Really, why would that be worth it? That would make questionable sense with the ability to leave people out, and it doesn't make the class more fun or really improve anything at all. It isn't even for the flavor aspect since it is an arguable point.

Actually it would be more of a flavour standpoint. Mainly that even if they aren't being targeted by it specifically, people who have never been subjugated to it before are still unable to fully shake it off. Then again, it could be something like against someone who has never seen it before, you can't ignore them completely but are able to halve the DC or something similar.

Originally Posted by Markus Darkmind

And a question. When one takes the Cerbrant Horror feat, his high casting score doesn't give him any benefit, does it?

It gives higher DCs, etc. as normal, but it does not give additional spells per day (or spells learned). Then again, you are able to get many more spells per day than most other classes if you decide not to use your features.

Owrtho

[Lord_Gareth]

This class. Harrowed. PrC.

It MUST HAPPEN.

[Owrtho]

Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth

This class. Harrowed. PrC.

It MUST HAPPEN.

Oddly enough, I've had similar thoughts. At the moment just trying to finish up the last few things on the ozodrin though.

Owrtho

[Matar]

I feel the same way about RoC's Xeno class.

IT MUST HAPPEN >:3

[Magikeeper]

Originally Posted by Owrtho

Actually it would be more of a flavour standpoint. Mainly that even if they aren't being targeted by it specifically, people who have never been subjugated to it before are still unable to fully shake it off. Then again, it could be something like against someone who has never seen it before, you can't ignore them completely but are able to halve the DC or something similar.

I did not say there was not a flavor argument. I said the flavor point was arguable. As in, it isn’t class-makes-no-sense-without-this. Which, given how annoying this minor ability would be, is sufficient IMO. Any beneficial ability that I would feel the need to, with a typical PC, remove/weaken via bestow curse is already ify.

I would rather have the negative RP consequences of being freaky being decided via RP. Not by a class ability that triggers whenever features are changed. I think having to restrain yourself in towns should also be an RP choice, not an “I am a walking fear effect, please kick me out of your village or start making saves”.

In some games it wouldn't matter either way, I admit. But in others it would.

[Owrtho]

Valid point. I added a line to let the ozodrin exclude targets. As such though you can't protect people you don't know are there.

Owrtho

[Markus Darkmind]

Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth

This class. Harrowed. PrC.

It MUST HAPPEN.

I can totally see a Harrowed discovering that his inner monster is abomination from the Far Realms, analizing his world through his eyes and taking notes for its masters...

[Necroticplague]

An idea for an epic feature:

Spoiler

Weapon: Cost-12
Appearance:A dark and crude looking weapon seems to form from your skin.
Required Level:21
Benefits:Pick one weapon. You are capable of forming that weapon from yourself . Select one additional weapon you can form every two levels gained (e.x.:One weapon at 21, 2 at 23, 3 at 25 etc.). The weapon does not need to be held in your hand(s). You are proficient with any weapon you form, and they are masterwork (despite looking otherwise). They can have a total enchantment value equal to half of your ozodrin levels. Default material for the weapon counts as steel (it's actually flesh, though). If a weapon is several different materials due to augments, then it takes the most beneficial traits of each material (and counts as all of them for overcoming DR). Ranged weapons come with 50 of the correct ammunition (and throwing weapons in stacks of 50).
Augments:
Unearthly Blows :Additional cost 2
A weapon created with this augment gains a +1 enchantment bonus to attack and damage rolls. This augment can be applied multiple times to the same weapon. It's affect stacks (up to the maximum).

Weighted Strike:Additional cost 2
A weapon with this augment is adamantine. This takes up 2 points of the maximum enchantment bonus.

Null Weapon:Additional cost 2
A weapon with this augment is cold iron. This takes up one point of enchantment bonus. This augment causes Unearthly Blows to require twice as many form points.

All That Glitters:Additional cost 2
A weapon with this augment is silver. This takes up 1 point of enchantment bonus.

Corrupted Crystal:Additional cost 2
A weapon with this augment is a special form of deep crystal. It counts as deep crystal, but you can also use form points as a substitute for power points. Form points used up in this way are not regained until the next time you sleep. This takes up 1 point of enchantment.

[i]Aligned Will:[i/] Additional cost 2
A weapon with this augment is aligned. It counts as being one of axiomatic, anarchic, holy or unholy. This takes up 3 points of enchantment.

Baneful Force: Additional cost 4
The weapon with this is a bane weapon against a creature type of your choosing. A weapon can only be the bane of one thing at a time. If a weapon has this augment multiple times, then it can switch between it's banes as a swift action. This takes up 3 points of enchantment.

Darklight Vaccum: Additional cost 4
A weapon with this augment has the brilliant property. The ozodrin can also cause it to almost reverse it's effects and emit darkness and ignore living while striking nonliving as a move action. This causes it to gain a +2 bonus to sundering and disarming, and making it only able to hit objects, undead and constructs. This takes up 5 points of enchantment.

Blocking Blade: Additional cost 2
Requires Unearthly Blow: A weapon with this augment can transfer the bonus from Unearthly Blow to a untyped AC bonus. This takes up 1 enchantment point.

Damnative Disruption: Additional cost 4
A weapon with this augment has disruption. It can ignore the usual requirement of a blunt weapon. This takes up 3 enchantment points.

Farflying: Additional cost 2
A weapon with this augment doubles it's range increment. This takes up 1 enchantment points.

Elemental Tuning: Additional cost 3
Choose one energy type. This weapon deals 1d6 of that energy type on a successful attack. A weapon with this augment appears to be covered with a thin layer of that energy type (for sonic, the weapon is constantly resonating).This augment can be taken multiple times. Each time, select one more energy type. This takes up 1 enchantment point.

Explosive Elementalism:
Requires Elemental Tuning: Choose an energy damage type that this weapon has from Elemental Tuning. On a critical hit, the weapon does xd10 damage of that energy type, where x=critical modifier of weapon-1. This can be taken multiple times. For each time, select one additional energy type. This takes up 2 enchantment points.

Phantasmal Weapon: Additional cost 4
A weapon with this augment is a ghost touch weapon. This takes up 2 enchantment points.

Critical striker: Additional cost 6
A weapon with this augment doubles it's critical threat range. This takes up 2 enchantment points

Merciful Mastery Additional cost 2
A weapon with this augment does an additional 1d6 damage. Any damage it inflicts in nonlethal. This takes up 1 enchantment point

Snicker-Snak Additional cost 10
Requires level 25: A weapon with this augment has a tendency to veer for the head. On a succesful critical hit, the weapon manages to find it's target, thus cutting off it's head. Many aberrations and all oozes simply lack heads to cut off, while constructs and almost all undead can survive without a head. Other creatures are killed by this. This takes up 6 enchantment points.

Got the idea after looking at the tail of this abomination. Still trying to work on "guts on the outside", though.

[Markus Darkmind]

Originally Posted by Necroticplague

An idea for an epic feature:

Spoiler

Weapon: Cost-12
Appearance:A dark and crude looking weapon seems to form from your skin.
Required Level:21
Benefits:Pick one weapon. You are capable of forming that weapon from yourself . Select one additional weapon you can form every two levels gained (e.x.:One weapon at 21, 2 at 23, 3 at 25 etc.). The weapon does not need to be held in your hand(s). You are proficient with any weapon you form, and they are masterwork (despite looking otherwise). They can have a total enchantment value equal to half of your ozodrin levels. Default material for the weapon counts as steel (it's actually flesh, though). If a weapon is several different materials due to augments, then it takes the most beneficial traits of each material (and counts as all of them for overcoming DR). Ranged weapons come with 50 of the correct ammunition (and throwing weapons in stacks of 50).
Augments:
Unearthly Blows :Additional cost 2
A weapon created with this augment gains a +1 enchantment bonus to attack and damage rolls. This augment can be applied multiple times to the same weapon. It's affect stacks (up to the maximum).

Weighted Strike:Additional cost 2
A weapon with this augment is adamantine. This takes up 2 points of the maximum enchantment bonus.

Null Weapon:Additional cost 2
A weapon with this augment is cold iron. This takes up one point of enchantment bonus. This augment causes Unearthly Blows to require twice as many form points.

All That Glitters:Additional cost 2
A weapon with this augment is silver. This takes up 1 point of enchantment bonus.

Corrupted Crystal:Additional cost 2
A weapon with this augment is a special form of deep crystal. It counts as deep crystal, but you can also use form points as a substitute for power points. Form points used up in this way are not regained until the next time you sleep. This takes up 1 point of enchantment.

[i]Aligned Will:[i/] Additional cost 2
A weapon with this augment is aligned. It counts as being one of axiomatic, anarchic, holy or unholy. This takes up 3 points of enchantment.

Baneful Force: Additional cost 4
The weapon with this is a bane weapon against a creature type of your choosing. A weapon can only be the bane of one thing at a time. If a weapon has this augment multiple times, then it can switch between it's banes as a swift action. This takes up 3 points of enchantment.

Darklight Vaccum: Additional cost 4
A weapon with this augment has the brilliant property. The ozodrin can also cause it to almost reverse it's effects and emit darkness and ignore living while striking nonliving as a move action. This causes it to gain a +2 bonus to sundering and disarming, and making it only able to hit objects, undead and constructs. This takes up 5 points of enchantment.

Blocking Blade: Additional cost 2
Requires Unearthly Blow: A weapon with this augment can transfer the bonus from Unearthly Blow to a untyped AC bonus. This takes up 1 enchantment point.

Damnative Disruption: Additional cost 4
A weapon with this augment has disruption. It can ignore the usual requirement of a blunt weapon. This takes up 3 enchantment points.

Farflying: Additional cost 2
A weapon with this augment doubles it's range increment. This takes up 1 enchantment points.

Elemental Tuning: Additional cost 3
Choose one energy type. This weapon deals 1d6 of that energy type on a successful attack. A weapon with this augment appears to be covered with a thin layer of that energy type (for sonic, the weapon is constantly resonating).This augment can be taken multiple times. Each time, select one more energy type. This takes up 1 enchantment point.

Explosive Elementalism:
Requires Elemental Tuning: Choose an energy damage type that this weapon has from Elemental Tuning. On a critical hit, the weapon does xd10 damage of that energy type, where x=critical modifier of weapon-1. This can be taken multiple times. For each time, select one additional energy type. This takes up 2 enchantment points.

Phantasmal Weapon: Additional cost 4
A weapon with this augment is a ghost touch weapon. This takes up 2 enchantment points.

Critical striker: Additional cost 6
A weapon with this augment doubles it's critical threat range. This takes up 2 enchantment points

Merciful Mastery Additional cost 2
A weapon with this augment does an additional 1d6 damage. Any damage it inflicts in nonlethal. This takes up 1 enchantment point

Snicker-Snak Additional cost 10
Requires level 25: A weapon with this augment has a tendency to veer for the head. On a succesful critical hit, the weapon manages to find it's target, thus cutting off it's head. Many aberrations and all oozes simply lack heads to cut off, while constructs and almost all undead can survive without a head. Other creatures are killed by this. This takes up 6 enchantment points.

Got the idea after looking at the tail of this abomination. Still trying to work on "guts on the outside", though.

Seems a pretty good idea. Now, to create my Alex Mercer character... Althought it still misses most enchatements and a way to increase damage size. Let's see what does Owrtho think of this...

[Owrtho]

Well, it seems like a possibility, but does seem somewhat counter toward the idea of what the ozodrin does (then again one could argue it fits it). I'd note though that using your features, you already can gain a handful of those on your features.

I'll think about it though.

Owrtho

[Jarrick]

Im a little confused as what actions a creature being devoured can take.

The creature being devoured counts as being grappled and can only take actions it normally could take while being grappled. However, it cannot gain control of the grapple or take other grapple options except to escape.

Does this mean that it can only attempt to escape, or that it can take normal grappling actions, such as attacking with light weapons or natural attacks or attempting a pin?

[Owrtho]

It means it can only use actions that are not prevented by being in a grapple, and the only grappling specific action it can take is to escape. So if a character has an ability that is not prevented from being used while grappling, it can use it. If it has an ability that is only usable while grappling, it can't use it unless that ability is escaping a grapple. If it has an ability that can't be used while grappling, it can't use it.

Owrtho