Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

[Magikeeper]

Originally Posted by Magicyop

Sure, but it would have to be more limited... Otherwise, any time you die for any reason, if someone doodled you somewhere, you can just stick a Traveling Tentacle out the picture and poof! You're alive again! You could basically churn out Phylacteries at the rate of one per round. Even if you die for good, all it ever takes is for someone to remember what you looked like and draw you, and you come back.

Yes, you shouldn't be able to use any features that require you to have your own body (since you don't).

Hmm... would you be able to use your corpse as a depiction of yourself? That could be an issue.

So place a ban on abilities that would reform your main body (like TT and otherworldly guise), and you can't use your own body as a depiction within 24hrs of your death. If you want to place features on a statue and 'live' as it, so be it. Or even some kind of far realms spider using a doodle of yourself at the center.

[Epsilon Rose]

Originally Posted by Magikeeper

Or even some kind of far realms spider using a doodle of yourself at the center.

YES. That would be amazing. I'd almost want that as my normal form.

[Markus Darkmind]

How about the ability to use sinister image with actual body parts of yours? Like, you leave a flask of blood or some chucks of flesh somewhere....

[Owrtho]

Actually, for a fun cosmic horror type theme, I have some ideas to makes another spell feat like Cerebrant Horror that would be more focused on dreams and such. One of the planned ideas would be a spell that causes people within an area who are sleeping and fail a will save to be compelled to relate some message to the best of their abilities, be it through song, a story, or artwork. Thus you could use it to make all the artists in a town start making paintings/sculptures of you (while bards compose ballads or stories about some horrifying monster), sorta like in Call of Cthulhu (the story).

Another possible epic ability would be sensing when your name is spoken, possibly with the ability to affect things around where it is.

Also, I'd initially considered making spike augments to flesh, but after thinking about what spikes would do and relative costs, decided it would be easier to make it its own feature (similar to how lure traps compare to puppets).

Owrtho

[Markus Darkmind]

Originally Posted by Owrtho

Actually, for a fun cosmic horror type theme, I have some ideas to makes another spell feat like Cerebrant Horror that would be more focused on dreams and such. One of the planned ideas would be a spell that causes people within an area who are sleeping and fail a will save to be compelled to relate some message to the best of their abilities, be it through song, a story, or artwork. Thus you could use it to make all the artists in a town start making paintings/sculptures of you (while bards compose ballads or stories about some horrifying monster), sorta like in Call of Cthulhu (the story).

Another possible epic ability would be sensing when your name is spoken, possibly with the ability to affect things around where it is.

Also, I'd initially considered making spike augments to flesh, but after thinking about what spikes would do and relative costs, decided it would be easier to make it its own feature (similar to how lure traps compare to puppets).

Owrtho

These sound awesome. For the spikes I believe too that they deserve their own features.

[Matar]

Just thought I would tell all of you that, seeing as how the Scion is done (Unless you think it needs some work done still) that I plan on working on another Oozdrin class that lets you become a weapon/armor/shield that others can use.

I'll either make that next or a Xenotheurgy base class that I've been thinking about... not sure...

[Owrtho]

Good to know. Sounds like it could be interesting. It looks to be good. I notice you decided against using the intrusion feature. Both those ideas sound like they could be interesting.

Also, for the interested, I started work on another ozodrin PRC, but where it is is a secret.

Owrtho

[Magicyop]

Originally Posted by Owrtho

Good to know. Sounds like it could be interesting. It looks to be good. I notice you decided against using the intrusion feature. Both those ideas sound like they could be interesting.

Also, for the interested, I started work on another ozodrin PRC, but where it is is a secret.

Owrtho

Not so secret any more... Here it is, the new Ozodrin PRC! Sorry that I figured that out so quickly, I'm just so not clever like that.

[Owrtho]

Originally Posted by Magicyop

Not so secret any more... Here it is, the new Ozodrin PRC! Sorry that I figured that out so quickly, I'm just so not clever like that.

You may have figured out where the class is, but I bet you can't figure out what it does that's special, or what other class it advances.

Owrtho

[Tacitus]

0.o It links Harrowed... Lets see... special things. Form features while normal looking, ability like that one lightning teleport spell that hurts everyone you pass through, and it seems that instead of losing control and becoming a CE NPC (more or less) you lose damage dice to the Beast instead. That a fair assessment?

[Owrtho]

Gah, reading the description of the class, the only weakness of my trickery.

Though to be fair, you still lose control, it just is slightly delayed and somewhat easier (as attacking the beast is an easy way to make you lose control, and you can only stay in control for as long as you haven't given all your damage dice to the beast.

Edit: Also, would anyone be willing to try typing up a poison augment for the spike feature (I know almost nothing about poison or I'd do it myself)? It seems the overwhelming majority is for it being added to the class, though only 2 people have voted for a specific level (levels 7 and 1). I'll think about making it a feat to launch spikes, get horns, and get drills.

Also, for the swimming unearthly fin augment effect, how would the ability to spend a move action and make a swim check to create a current that requires a swim check to resist originating from you and travelling in a direction 5 feet per unearthly fin (direction of current need not match direction it travels). DC of swim check would be whatever you rolled on your swim check (may only use bonuses from fins with the unearthly fin augment). Thoughts?

Owrtho

[Necroticplague]

The unearthly fin improvement sounds fine. Although, for the poison augment, what poison should it be based off of? If it's general poison, I had an augment a few pages back for that (I know poison mechanics well, just don't know any poisons). The idea of affecting when your name is said sounds good, but I can only think of having you transport their. To that effect:

Say My Name (su):You gain a strong connection to your name through the far planes. Whenever your name is spoken you can sense it, and as an immediate action, use 10 ft of your strange movement to transport yourself into a square next to whatever spoke your name.

[Epsilon Rose]

It seems kinda strange to constrain a class with so much customization potential to a single type of poison. Perhaps making it like enchant meant where you spend enhancement bonus and points to design a poison?

I'm loath to suggest this but you could also make it an out right feature that requires a feat. You'd make the different augments the various effects it could have and unlock more powerful ones as they level up. You'd of course need to put a cap on how many points they can spend, but that's one of the reasons it needs to be a feat; another being that if it's a feat you could apply it to other things or perhaps create inhaled and contact poisons.

[Jarrick]

Id say:

The poison deals 1d6 Str, Dex, Int, Wis, Or Cha damage, or 1d4 Con damage (Chosen when augment is applied). Save DC = 10 + 1/2 the ozodrin's level + 1/2 the ozodrins Con (or Cha) modifier. allow multiple applications to stack, but make it have a decently high cost to keep players from spamming poison.

Maybe throw in Unconsciouness as drow knockout poison for good measure, but probably at higher levels due to the increased save DC.

Maybe have an augment for the augment that makes it do half as much as drain instead.

[Nanoblack]

Why not give it the ability to recycle poison it's been injected with. Like every time it makes its fort save vs poison it stores a dose of the poison to be used by one of its spikes. It could hold a maximum number of doses equal to its Cha mod (though Con would make more sense).

Edit: Using it like this would give it certain combination effects like with the filtering flesh augment...

[Doggie_arf]

Been watching this thread for some time - it intrigues me.

Just a quick question - would a character be able to use feats and perform skill checks through a Puppet or Spawn? Like, say, attempting a Bluff or Diplomacy check via the Puppet, or using your Power Attack feat to improve the damage of a Spawn's natural attack?

[Necroticplague]

Originally Posted by Doggie_arf

Just a quick question - would a character be able to use feats and perform skill checks through a Puppet or Spawn? Like, say, attempting a Bluff or Diplomacy check via the Puppet, or using your Power Attack feat to improve the damage of a Spawn's natural attack?

Not sure about feats, but the way I see it the only limit to using skills is having the appropriate features. If you wanted to use diplomacy or bluff, the spawn would need a deceptive mouth. It needs to see (have an eye other than blind eyes) to use spot, decipher script, and search. in order to do fine motor skills (writing, forgery, use rope and sleight of hand) you need either a limb (not absent) or a budding tentacle.

[Owrtho]

Well, just to clear this up, Necroticplague is right on the skills, though technically a search check could be performed blind by feeling around, and if you had blindsight or tremmorsense on the puppet/spawn it could make a spot check.

As for feats, you are free to use them through said constructs, as well as through the beast feature from the beast sculpted PRC, provided that the thing you are using it through is capable of doing it.

Owrtho

[Doggie_arf]

Hm. Alright. Time for a little thought exercise. Please correct me if I get the math wrong.

The Puppet Walker

Spoiler

The Premise

Spoiler

Despite its weaker combat capabilities and movement restrictions, I still prefer the Puppet feature to the Spawn feature. This will be an attempt to counter some of those issues, and make the Puppet even more awesome.

The Base

Spoiler

For this to work properly, the ozodrin would need to have both the Puppet Feature (obviously) and the Condensed Flesh augment of the Flesh Feature - this would require a minimum of 15 levels in the class. However, it will only shine once the ozodrin reaches level 20 and unlocks the Horror capstone ability. Yes, this is high levelled, and not very practical. It's not meant to be.

The Details (Check the math!)

Spoiler

Assume that the character is your (a)typical, Medium-sized human ozodrin.

First, the character creates a Medium-sized Puppet. [+22 Form Points (FP)]

Spoiler

We start off with your generic 5 ft. tentacle. It starts off the same size as the character (Medium). [+3 FP]
We then make it a blunt tentacle. [+4 FP]
As the tentacle must support a Medium Puppet, it needs to be at least 20 ft. long and of Huge size. We thus add 15 ft. [+ (3*3) FP] and 2 size increases. [+ (2*3) FP] The tentacle is now ready.
Next, we add two eyes [+ (1*2) FP] and a mouth. [+2 FP] We want to let the Puppet talk, so adding the Deceptive Mouth augment once [+2 FP] gives it a voice, among other things.
Finally, we add arms and legs [+ (4*4) FP] - as the ozodrin is Medium-sized, the limbs added would fit a Medium Puppet perfectly.
The base cost of all the listed features adds up to 44 FP. This is halved to get the Medium Puppet's final cost of 22 FP.

(Calculations assume that a given unaugmented feature is considered the same size as the ozodrin [i.e. base tentacles/limbs], unless otherwise stated in the feature's listing on page 1.)

After the Puppet is formed, the character applies Condensed Flesh twice to him/herself, shrinking to a size of Tiny [+ 2 + (2*8) FP].

Condensed Flesh: Additional cost 8
Required Level 15: Your flesh is more condensed than normal. Due to this you are a size category smaller. Your ability scores and the size of other features are not modified, but all other modifiers apply. This stacks with other Condensed Flesh. You may apply this augment to the same flesh multiple times. The effects stack to a minimum size of tiny.

As per that paragraph, the size (and thus cost) of a feature is dependent on your original size, not your size after Condensed Flesh. Thus, your Medium Puppet still costs the same as before.

After two applications of Condensed Flesh, the character is now Tiny, and is roughly the size of a housecat or a grig. It is thus quite feasible to stuff the character into, say. a typical, Medium-sized backpack (A Necklace of Adaptation prevents the character from suffocating inside the 'pack). The Puppet then carries the backpack with the character riding along inside - well within the 15 ft. range permitted by the default tentacle.

Congratulations - you now have a Puppet that can move freely, for a total cost of 40 FP.

Of course, this base combination (at level 15) only gives you a Puppet with no attacks and a paltry 8 Strength - and it doesn't leave you with a lot of remaining FP to spend on other stuff. At level 20, however........

Form Points and Horror (Important! And check the math!)

Spoiler

The normal formula for calculating Form Points (FP).

Form Points (Ex): An ozodrin has a number of form points equal to Charisma modifier + the number of Aberrant feats they've taken + three times their class level. These points may be used to apply different features to their manefested form. All features cost form points. If you remove a feature, you regain the form points spent on it. The total cost of all features added cannot be more than the total number of form points you have.

According to the Horror ability:

Horror (Ex): An ozodrin of 20th level or higher gains more form points than weaker ones. To calculate the number of form points, double the total number it would normally have and add twice the ozodrin's class level (this is on top of the class level already in the initial equation).

Assume that the character is a level 20 ozodrin, who started with 16 Charisma, placed all ability points into Charisma, and bought a +5 Tome of Leadership and Influence (reasonable with normal level 20 WBL). This yields a Charisma score of 26 after inherent bonuses and before other items, or a +8 modifier. Add this to triple the character's ozodrin class levels (3 * 20) for an FP pool of 68.

The Horror ability then *doubles* this base number, and adds a further (2 * 20) FP - this yields a whopping total of ((68 * 2) + 40) = 176 FP.

Subtract the 40 FP cost of the "free-roaming" Puppet, and your character still have 136 FP to spend. And we haven't included aberrant feats or Farspawn bonuses into the calculations!

Pimping Your "Ride"

Spoiler

Now, the Horror capstone ability in itself already supercharges the number of FP available to your (a)typical, epic-ready ozodrin. So how do you apply all that bonus FP to your Puppet?

Evasive Actions: Oddly enough, the Jerk the Line Puppet augment [+ 4 FP] will still work as written - although it's arguable if you can feasibly tug someone out of the way if you're sitting in their backpack. Other than that issue, it's a *very* nifty free-action boost.

Natural Weapons: Lure Traps. Set a nasty one on the Puppet, and (from the safety of your backpack) trigger it as a standard action. Or "program" the Lure Trap to spring, say, when someone lands a hit on the Puppet (and eats a full Lure Trap attack to the face for their pains!). After that's settled, the Puppet is now free to use the Lure Trap's features as its own natural weapons. Lure Traps happen to be fairly inexpensive, too. There's still the annoying 8 Strength problem, which brings me to........ Not as useful as first thought, as they still use the character's base Strength.

Crazy Strength: My personal favorite. This uses the Strong Puppet augment, as shown:

Strong puppet: Additional cost 3
The puppet gains +2 to strength. This may be applied multiple times to the same puppet. The effects stack.

If we use the calculations in the previous section, 136 FP will allow you to apply Strong Puppet 45 times, thus increasing the Puppet's Strength score to 98. This puppet *still* won't have any attacks - you can sacrifice a bit of Strength here to add a decent Lure Trap to the Puppet (and apply the modified Strength to the Lure Trap attacks after the trap has been sprung!). Or give the Puppet a weapon - as the ozodrin *can* use simple weapons, it isn't too much of a stretch to allow the Puppet to use them too.

Pure Strength wise, the Puppet has a +44 modifier. It can break reinforced masonry walls just by nudging them.

Items: Thus far, the only purchase factored into the calculations has been the +5 Tome - there's still a large amount of that level 20 WBL left unspent. Quite a lot can be done with that sum of money - it just depends on whether the Puppet can wear equipment (magic or otherwise).

[Teleportation items are a bit tricky, though - if the Puppet wears and uses, say, Anklets of Translocation, does it teleport the Puppet, the ozodrin, or both? If only one is teleported, what happens if the Puppet goes out of range?] (Apparently, these work. Thanks for clearing it up!)

Miscellany: If done judiciously, this Puppet can become a rather scary combat form. Fighter feats taken by the character (converted into Aberrant Feats by Otherworldly Skill for extra FP!) can (theoretically) be used by the Puppet to boost it's capabilities even further. Check which of these feats can transfer over - Power Attack should be fine, but something like Martial Study (Crusader's Strike) may be a bit dubious.

Final Thoughts:

Spoiler

As mentioned, this build blooms late. It's not meant to compete with reality-warping full casters, and it's not really meant to be serious. It may be possible, with a fair bit of calculations, to create a Puppet that transforms into a tentacled horror with amazing strength - that would depend on the player's choices of features. The main kick I get out of this is creating an ordinary, useless looking Puppet that can tear a wall down with just its bare hands.

[Owrtho]

Well, it seems most of your math there is fine. There are a few problems there though. For one thing, lure traps use your strength score rather than the puppets, thus unless the puppet has natural attacks on its own or is using a weapon, it won't have too much use for that high strength score.
Also, a weakness of that build is area of effect abilities can hit you twice, as you'll always be in the same square as your puppet, and they would treat you and the puppet as separate creatures for targets.
Should note though that teleportation gear would work for the puppet, as saying it teleports only one of you would be like saying a ring of teleportation only teleports your finger.
Even so, you could always place features on yourself and attack from the backpack. You could also place various flesh on the puppet to make it nearly invulnerable.
If you wanted to make use of the high possible strength, you could choose a near human looking creature that has a natural attack (possibly also using the pretending flesh for the puppet). Or you could just go and take a feat to learn how to use a decent weapon (made an aberrant feat by Otherworldly Skill), and have the puppet use it.

Owrtho

[Doggie_arf]

Wait, so they *still* use the ozodrin's own Strength even after being triggered? Makes it a lot less useful, then.

Not that it matters - I was aiming for something that could bash down walls and beat dragons at arm-wrestling contests. Devouring the dragon with messy tentacle death is just a bonus.

[Necroticplague]

How does custom armor fitting work with the ozodrin? Would they need to have separate armor for each setup of form points? What would be the craft DC of such armor anyway?Do you count as humanoid or aberration for purpose of determining costs? Does custom armor for you have to be masterwork?

[Owrtho]

Well, an ozodrin could in theory get custom armour to provide its bonus to their entire body while manifesting its true nature. However, it can just use normal armour (similar to how it can wear normal cloths) through the armour will only apply to its main body (so it wouldn't affect blunt tentacles, puppets, etc.). As I mentioned though, if you wanted to, and your DM allowed it, you could get custom armour made that would also cover blunt tentacles and the like.

As for your type, you could use humanoid armour, but custom armour like that above would likely count as aberration armour.

Owrtho

[Nanoblack]

Any ideas for an epic progression?

[Jarrick]

Originally Posted by Nanoblack

Any ideas for an epic progression?

How many times has that been asked now?

I thought of something that needed clarifying while mulling over whether I wanted to inflict this class on my group of noobs as a player yet. With tentacles it says this:

Special: If you have the Aberrant feat Deepspawn, you may choose to exchange the tentacles granted from it for 3 form points each. You may also use this feature before level 3 if you have the Deepspawn feat, but may not use its augments until reaching level 3. Augments may be applied to tentacles granted by the Deepspawn feat as if they were normal features.

My addition in bold.

[Owrtho]

I suppose that could be added, though it is somewhat a moot point as the basic tentacle feature (which costs three form point, exactly the amount you can trade the deepspawn tentacles for) is exactly the same as a tentacle granted by deepspawn. The main difference though would likely be that the tentacles from deepspawn may be used while not manifesting your true nature.

As for epic progressions, there are some ideas scattered throughout the thread. At the moment though I'm trying to decide just what level I should place the spike feature at and then will likely add a few more augments to it. After that I'll try to finish the menacing manor up, and then I'll look into making some epic feats or levels. Also, more immediately I need to finish the beast sculpted PRC up. That said it would be handy to get some feedback on it. Particularly the save DC for when the beast is dealt damage.

Owrtho

[Owrtho]

Well, as I've decided to add spikes to the main class, the real issue now is what level to add them too. As I plan to add them early on, it seems like the possible levels are 1 (to remove the lack of offensive abilities at level 1), 4 (as there are no features on that level), 5 (again, no features), or 7 (also no features). 4 & 5 seem to be less than good choices as the abilities they grant are rather closely tied to grappling (which is the primary benefit of spikes). Level 1 has the issue of already granting eyes, which should be available at level 1. As such 7 currently seems best, though is perhaps a little later than I'd prefer. Any thoughts?

Also, for the spike augments. On top of drill and poison augments mentioned already, how does this sound?

Hollow Spike - cost 5
Requires level 10 - Any time you would make an initial save against a disease poison, you may choose to make a second save at a -3 penalty, regardless of weather you pass the first save or not (you may not do this for more than one hollow spike at a time). If you fail this second save, you are affected even i you passed the first save. If you succeed, this spike gains a single dose of that disease or poison. This spike may only hold a single dose at a time. Any time you would deal damage with this spike while it contains a dose, you may choose to inject the dose into the target. If you do so they are treated as if the initial source that affected you were affecting them. Doing so uses up the dose.

Owrtho

[Jarrick]

well, since its a trademark of this sort of thing, you could bump tentacles up to 1st level alongside eyes and put spikes in at 3rd. That would also make starting grapples to use the mouths easier next level. at 1st level, a "basic" optimized ozodrin will be able to form about 3 tentacles, maybe 4 if it's a human with nothing but abberrant feats, but unless it has a Cha-boosting race, will only be able to attack with 2 of them per round. (since "while many features grant natural attacks, an ozodrin cannot make more attacks with its natural attacks per round than half the sum of its class level + its Charisma modifier.") "2 tentacles +4 melee, 1d4 +4" doesnt sound overpowered at first level to me. Half orc barbarian, not raging: "Greataxe +6 melee, 1d12 +7"

2 tentacles and the rest in eyes sounds like a great way to start an ozodrin character to me.

[Sindri]

Originally Posted by Owrtho

Creatures may only be affected by one special eye per 6 points of charisma modifier (rounded down minimum 1) each round.

What's the point of listing a variable restriction when it's effectively 1 for everyone? Unless the character has a Cha of 34+ it's the same thing as saying that a creature can only be affected by one eye at a time. Limiting the effects on any one target is a good idea, because otherwise you could just spam Con damage until everything dies, but this seems like an unnecessarily convoluted way of saying it.

edit: I think that the lack of offensive powers at first level isn't too much of a problem; the flavor of the class is still there with the eyes and the fear effect from your true form, and you're already getting sort of a lot at first level. In straight combat they're weaker than most, but they can still use weapons and it sort of makes sense for a budding eldrich horror to not have much more than human power until it grows some more.

edit edit: You might want to include some sort of multiclassing restrictions; while it should be easy for an ozodrin to learn another class, it doesn't really make sense to me to learn how to be a beast from the Far Realm after a few levels of being ordinary.

edit edit edit: (last time, I swear) I agree that there needs to be some method of scaling the damage of natural attacks with level; at 18th level even 13 tentacle attacks for 1d6 each is unimpressive. You can increase the die type or add 1 with augments, but damage-wise a monk beats you unless you do nothing but eye beams and devouring. Maybe a bonus to strength when you increase your size? Or flesh augments that boost physical stats? Currently the only way to use form points to increase ability scores that I see is increased strength on a puppet, which can currently make your puppets a great deal stronger than you are. If it was a generic flesh augment instead, you could put it on yourself but still have the option of adding it to a puppet or a spawn.

[Sindri]

Originally Posted by Milskidasith

How can you have a colossal++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ mouth on a medium creature?

Source: http://sluggy.com/comics/archives/daily/030528