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Old 05-24-2010, 07:00 PM   Top  -  End  -  #1
Ernir
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Default The Fighter Incarnate [3.5 Base Class] (PEACH)

The class is now available in .pdf form for printing. Note: May contain typos and slight wording differences.

"Father, father! I was reading a story, where this warrior stood face to face with a dragon, and won! And this warrior hardly wore any magic items at all, save for his sword. If it were a mighty mage like you, I could understand, but this one was as mundane as a broomstick! How can this be?", the boy asked of his father.
"Well, there are warriors, and there are the true warriors. The one you read of must have been the incarnation of the fighting spirit itself, one which has rather limited need of magical trinkets." The mage drew a deep breath.
"Hmmm. In fact, I may have a book on warriors such as these. Here, let me show it to you! It is titled..."

The Fighter Incarnate

Alignment
Any.

Hit Die
d10

LevelBase Attack
Bonus
Fort
Save
Ref
Save
Will
Save
SpecialPaths
known
Focuses
active
Determination
available
1+1+2+0+2Bonus Feat101
2+2+3+0+3Bonus Feat202
3+3+3+1+3Lesser Focus312
4+4+4+1+4Bonus Feat413
5+5+4+1+4Lesser Focus413
6+6/+1+5+2+5Bonus Feat414
7+7/+2+5+2+5Lesser Focus525
8+8/+3+6+2+6Bonus Feat525
9+9/+4+6+3+6Greater Focus526
10+10/+5+7+3+7Bonus Feat627
11+11/+6/+1+7+3+7Greater Focus638
12+12/+7/+2+8+4+8Bonus Feat639
13+13/+8/+3+8+4+8Greater Focus7310
14+14/+9/+4+9+4+9Bonus Feat7311
15+15/+10/+5+9+5+9Greatest Focus7412
16+16/+11/+6/+1+10+5+10Bonus Feat8413
17+17/+12/+7/+2+10+5+10Greatest Focus8414
18+18/+13/+8/+3+11+6+11Bonus Feat8416
19+19/+14/+9/+4+11+6+11Greatest Focus9518
20+20/+15/+10/+5+12+6+12Bonus Feat
Moment of Heroism
10520
Class Skills
The Fighter Incarnate's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str) and Tumble (Dex).

Skill points at 1st level
(4+ Int modifier) x4
Skill points at each additional level
4+ Int modifier

Class Features

All of the following are class features of the Fighter Incarnate.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
A Fighter Incarnate is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, medium, and light) and shields (including tower shields)

Bonus Feats:
At 1st level, a Fighter Incarnate gets a bonus combat-oriented feat in addition to the feat that any 1st-level character gets and the bonus feat grated to a human character. The Fighter Incarnate gains an additional bonus feat at 2nd leveland every two Fighter Incarnate levels thereafter. These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as Fighter bonus feats (in other words, it shares the bonus feat list with the Fighter class described in the PHB). A Fighter Incarnate must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums.

Determination (Ex)
Every hero has within him or herself a special quality, something that sets them apart from the ordinary person. Be it determination, primal rage, faith, honor, or sheer discipline, this is the resource (called by the common name Determination) that Fighter Incarnates draw on to push their capabilities beyond those of lesser warriors.
A Fighter Incarnate possesses the number of points of Determination shown on the Fighter Incarnate table. In addition, one point of Determination is gained for every three levels gained in other classes (So a Fighter Incarnate 2/Crusader 3 would have three points of available to him, two from his Fighter Incarnate levels, and one from his Crusader levels). Feats, items and spells may further boost this amount.
Determination is used by “investing” it in the Fighter Incarnate's paths (see below). Investing Determination is a swift action, and Determination remains invested until another swift action is taken to invest it otherwise. Determination is never consumed or destroyed when used.
There is a limit to the amount of Determination a hero can invest in any one of his Paths. This maximum is either the hero's Constitution modifier or the value given on the following table, whichever is lower:
Character levelMax
1-41
5-82
9-123
13-164
17-205

Paths (Ex)
All Fighter Incarnates know a few special abilities beyond those represented by feats and skill points. These are called Paths, although none but the most educated of Fighter Incarnates know them by that name. For most, the Path abilities are simply what they are, a trick, technique or instinct put to use in battle.
Unless otherwise noted, the abilities given by Paths are Extraordinary in nature, their use does not provoke attacks of opportunity, and the DC of any saving throw given against them is 10 + the Fighter Incarnate's Constitution modifier + Invested Determination.
The effects of Paths can be increased by investing Determination in the Path (see above) or taking a Focus (see below).
A Fighter Incarnate knows the number of Paths shown on the Fighter Incarnate table. A Path does not need to be prepared or readied, like a Feat, it is always there, ready to be used.

Focus (Ex)
Beyond the constant abilities represented by Paths, some are only unlocked through extraordinary practice or gift. Starting at 3rd level, Fighter Incarnates start obtaining Focus abilities, a powerful subset of Path abilities.

Lesser focusesGreater FocusesGreatest Focuses
CrownArmsHeart
HandsEyeShoulders
FeetVoiceSoul

At third level, the Fighter Incarnate may have only one Focus active at once, more Focuses can be activated simultaneously as the Fighter Incarnate advances in levels (as shown on the Fighter Incarnate table).
Before a Focus can be activated, its corresponding location must be unlocked. At 3rd level, only one of the Crown, Hands, and Feet locations is available, more locations are unlocked as the Fighter Incarnate progresses, resulting in a 7th level Fighter Incarnate having access to all the lesser Focuses, a 9th level Fighter Incarnate having access to all the lesser Focuses and one of the Greater Focuses, and so on.
Reallocating which Focuses are active takes five minutes of concentration, exercise, or meditation (every Fighter Incarnate has his own way to prepare himself for battle). They remain active indefinitely, or until another five minutes are taken to re-choose which Focuses are active.
Once a Focus has been activated, it is activated for all Paths which are associated with that Focus.

Moment of Heroism (Ex)
At 20th level, the Fighter Incarnate can go all out in a way no others can. Activating this ability is a free action. He can do so no more than once per day, and only in response to a highly dramatic situation, as given on the list below.
  • The Fighter Incarnate witnesses the death of a loved one, his mentor, his cohort or other minion, or a player character.
  • The Fighter Incarnate witnesses an enemy torturing someone.
  • An item with a market price of more than 100000 GP belonging to the Fighter Incarnate is destroyed by his enemy.
  • The Fighter Incarnate has been restrained by his enemy.
  • The Fighter Incarnate faces a vastly superior enemy in combat.
  • The Fighter Incarnate succeeds on a check vs. fear forced by a superior enemy.
  • The Fighter Incarnate succeeds on a save vs. an Illusion spell, an Enchantment (Charm) spell, or an Enchantment (Compulsion) spell cast by a superior enemy.
  • The Fighter succeeds on a Sense Motive check against the Bluff check of a superior enemy.
For these purposes, a "player character" is an allied player character, the "enemy" may never be a player character, a superior enemy is an enemy with a CR higher than the Fighter Incarnate's character level, and a vastly superior enemy is an enemy with a CR 3 or more higher than the Fighter Incarnate's character level.
Once activated, a Moment of Heroism lasts for a number of rounds equal to 3 + the Fighter Incarnate's Constitution modifier. During a Moment of Heroism, every single one of the Fighter Incarnate's Paths is considered full of Determination, up to the cap for each Path.
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Last edited by Ernir : 05-14-2012 at 05:30 PM.
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Old 05-24-2010, 07:01 PM   Top  -  End  -  #2
Ernir
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Default Re: The Fighter Incarnate [3.5 Base Class] (WIP) (PEACH)

The Paths

Path of the Anvil
Spoiler

Path of the Berserker
Spoiler

Path of the Butcher
Spoiler

Path of the Combat Acrobat
Spoiler

Path of the Cunning
Spoiler

Path of the Dragon-slayer
Spoiler

Path of the Hunter
Spoiler

Path of the Imperious Commander
Spoiler

Path of the Juggernaut
Spoiler

Path of the Lion's Heart
Spoiler

Path of the Mage-killer
Spoiler

Path of the Marksman
Spoiler

Path of the Mauler
Spoiler

Path of the Mineral Warrior
Spoiler

Path of the Outnumbered
Spoiler

Path of the Peerless Athlete
Spoiler

Path of the Rider
Spoiler

Path of the Shadow Warrior
Spoiler

Path of the Stalwart
Spoiler

Path of the Stoic
Spoiler

Path of the Tactician
Spoiler

Path of the Vigilant Defender
Spoiler

Path of the Watchman
Spoiler

Path of the Weapon Master
Spoiler
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Last edited by Ernir : 06-14-2012 at 07:11 PM.
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Old 05-24-2010, 07:03 PM   Top  -  End  -  #3
Ernir
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Default Re: The Fighter Incarnate [3.5 Base Class] (WIP) (PEACH)

Support (Serious WIP here.)


The Epic Fighter Incarnate
Hit Die
d10

Skill Points at Each Additional Level
4 + Int modifier

Bonus Feats
The epic Fighter Incarnate gains a bonus feat (selected from the list of epic fighter bonus feats) every two levels after 20th (starting at 22nd level).

Determination (Ex)
The limit of how much Determination a Fighter Incarnate can invest in one of his Paths continues to increase at epic levels. Consult the following table to determine your capacity:
Character levelMax
21-246
25-287
29-328
33-369
37-4010
......

Paths (Ex)
The Fighter Incarnate does not continue to learn additional Paths after 20th level.

Focus (Ex)
The Fighter Incarnate does not continue to learn additional Focuses after 20th level.

Feats

Blade Magic Aptitude
You may be but a dabbler in the sublime way of the martial adepts, but you are a damned good one.
Prerequisites: Martial Study, Fighter Incarnate level 4th.
Benefit: Your current and future martial maneuvers gained through the Martial Study feat can be recovered using the Warblade's recovery method.
In addition, you gain a bonus martial maneuver known for every current and future instance of the Martial Study feat you have (as if you had taken the feat again, except for that this does not count against the limit of the Martial Study feat not being able to be taken more than three times). Effectively, you double the number of maneuvers you gain from the Martial Study feat.
Special: A fighter may select Blade Magic Aptitude as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Extra Determination
You possess Determination beyond even that of most Fighter Incarnates.
Prerequisites: Con 13, Character level 6th.
Benefits: You gain 2 extra points of Determination.
Special: A fighter may select Extra Determination as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Expanded Path Capacity
You are able to push one of your Paths to its absolute maximum.
Prerequisites: Con 15, access to Paths.
Benefit: Choose one of your Paths. The Determination capacity of that Path is increased by 1, to a maximum of your Constitution modifier. From this point on, the Determination capacity for that Path is one point higher than normal.
Special: A fighter may select Expanded Path Capacity as one of his fighter bonus feats.
This feat can be taken more than once. Every time it is taken, select a new Path to which to apply it.

Rapid Refocus
It only takes you a moment to completely re-evaluate your strategy.
Prerequisites: Access to one or more Focuses.
Benefit: You can re-choose which of your Focuses are active as a full-round action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Normal: Re-choosing your active focuses takes five minutes.

[Special:[/b] A fighter may select Rapid Refocus as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Magic Items

Vestment of the True Warrior
Price: 15000 GP
Body Slot: Varies, see table
Aura: Moderate; (DC 18) transmutation
Activation: -
Weight: Varies, see table

The item appears mundane, but when the warrior picks it up, he can sense the power within.

Some magic items have little to no power of their own, their sole purpose being to augment the innate gifts of heroes. While worn, a Vestment of the True Warrior links to one of your active Focuses. Someone who does not have any Focuses active gains no benefit.
The item expands the Determination capacity of all of your Paths that grant the Focus by 1, to a maximum of your Constitution modifier.
Eight different kinds of Vestments of the True Warrior exist, each occupying a different body slot and relating to a different Focus. The Soul Focus is special, and is not covered (but see the Warrior's armor enhancement).

ItemFocusBody SlotWeight
Warrior's BracersArmsArms2lb.
Warrior's FaceguardEyeFace2lb.
Warrior's HelmetCrownHead3lb.
Warrior's GreavesFeetFeet4lb.
Warrior's GauntletsHandsHands 2lb.
Warrior's TunicHeartTorso1lb.
Warrior's CloakShouldersShoulders1lb.
Warrior's InsigniaVoiceThroat-

Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, Expanded Path Capacity
Cost to Create: 7,500 gp, 600 XP, 15 days.


Warrior's

Price: 15000 GP
Property: Armor
Caster level: 6th
Aura: Moderate; (DC 18) abjuration
Activation: -

The armor looks worn, well-used. When the warrior puts it on, he looks as if he was born to wear it.

If the user of a Warrior's suit of armor has an active Soul Focus, the enhancement expands the Determination capacity of any Path that grants the Focus by 1, to a maximum of your Constitution modifier.
Someone who does not have an active Soul focus gains no benefit.

Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Expanded Path Capacity
Cost to Create: 7,500 gp, 600 XP, 15 days.
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Last edited by Ernir : 06-14-2012 at 07:16 PM.
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Old 05-24-2010, 07:05 PM   Top  -  End  -  #4
Ernir
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Default Re: The Fighter Incarnate [3.5 Base Class] (WIP) (PEACH)

Author's notes

So. This is another Fighter fix. Or more of a Fighter replacement than a fix.

This obviously represents an enormous jump in power from that of the PHB Fighter. This is intentional. My intent was to make a mundane warrior that could actually stand toe to toe with the Sorcerer, power-wise (Tier 2, for those who are into that).

My design goals are/were as follows.
A to-do list:
  • Provide a means to get the immunities I see Fighters as needing in the rocket tag that is high level D&D.
  • Expand the skill list, and increase the Fighters' ability to use them.
  • Get Fighters to participate in the action economy.
  • Make Tanking a more relevant party role. (Unaccomplished)
  • Battlefield control. (Unaccomplished)

A NOT-to-do list:
  • Flight. Flight is important, but this is one thing I think not even the most badass individual on the planet should be able to pull that off without growing wings or resorting to magic.
  • Teleportation. Again, I see this as firmly magical.
  • Natural attacks. I want the Fighters to look 100% human, and while growing 400 sets of claws is both cool and useful, it's not something I think a Fighter should be pulling off.
  • Anything else that shouts MAAAAAGIC! all over the place.
  • Overlap with the Tome of Battle. That's what dipping Warblade/taking Martial Study feats is for.
  • Feats. Paths should not be providing too much in the way of feats. Fighters need stuff feats can't provide, not more feats.

This does make a whole lot of other base classes (such as the Barbarian) relatively obsolete. I am aware of this.
Also, this is, perhaps obviously, massively inspired by pretty much stolen from the Magic of Incarnum mechanics.

How badly did I miss my mark?

CHANGELOG:
August 2, 2010: Path of the Diplomat removed, Path of the Hunter and Path of the Mineral Warrior added. Willpower amount changed. Quite a few typos fixed.
August 3, 2010: Willpower renamed Determination. Focuses no longer prevent the simultaneous use of magic items.
November 27th, 2010: Typos fixed. Added the Blade Magic Aptitude feat. Added the Vestment of the True Warrior wondrous items, and the Warrior's armor enhancement. Added a capstone to the class.
February 24, 2011: (Ex) Descriptors added to the class ability names. Some logical errors fixed, minor updates.
February 27, 2011: Path of the Dragon-slayer, Path of the Peerless Athlete and Path of the Vigilant Defender added. Paths sorted in alphabetical order for the first time.
March 26, 2011. Epic progression added.
May 8, 2012. Path of the Rider and Path of the Juggernaut added. Many (mooostly) minor tweaks.
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Personal stuff: PbP characters, The Diablo 2 game (DMing), BBCode syntax highlighter for KDE
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Last edited by Ernir : 05-08-2012 at 05:50 PM.
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Old 05-24-2010, 07:34 PM   Top  -  End  -  #5
al'raith
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Default Re: The Fighter Incarnate [3.5 Base Class] (WIP) (PEACH)

I like it simple yet elegant but thats just me
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Old 05-25-2010, 03:56 PM   Top  -  End  -  #6
peterpaulrubens
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Default Re: The Fighter Incarnate [3.5 Base Class] (WIP) (PEACH)

OOOOH, I likes it much.

Though, I would drop the Path of the Diplomat entirely, as it seems well out of the fighter's purview to be mentally/magically dominating creatures.

I would change the table to read "Paths Known" and "Active Focuses" to make it a bit clearer.
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Old 05-25-2010, 04:25 PM   Top  -  End  -  #7
Ernir
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Default Re: The Fighter Incarnate [3.5 Base Class] (WIP) (PEACH)

Quote:
Originally Posted by peterpaulrubens View Post
OOOOH, I likes it much.

Though, I would drop the Path of the Diplomat entirely, as it seems well out of the fighter's purview to be mentally/magically dominating creatures.
That path has been bugging me for a while, actually. (And so has the
Path of the Shadow Warrior). I wanted a Path to give them a social option aside from Intimidate, but I think I missed the goal, here. The sense of nonmagicalness is getting way too thin, particularly with the Greatest Focus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peterpaulrubens View Post
I would change the table to read "Paths Known" and "Active Focuses" to make it a bit clearer.
Good idea.

Anyone know how to make multilined table entries?
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Old 05-25-2010, 05:09 PM   Top  -  End  -  #8
Glimbur
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Default Re: The Fighter Incarnate [3.5 Base Class] (WIP) (PEACH)

Path of the Outnumbered is... not very powerful.
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Old 05-25-2010, 05:39 PM   Top  -  End  -  #9
Lateral
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Default Re: The Fighter Incarnate [3.5 Base Class] (WIP) (PEACH)

This... is pretty good.

Actually, I may have just created the first optimization for this class. (Not a great one, but an optimized build nonetheless). Fighter Incarnate 3/ Monk 1 or 2/ Psychic Warrior X. Path of the Lion's Heart, take the lesser focus, you can now FoB on a charge. Monk 1 or 2, take Tashalatora (a feat that lets one of your psionic classes count as monk for FoB, AC bonus and speed boosts), and Flying Kick, a feat that makes unarmed strikes do +1d12 on a hit on a charge. Boom, up to 5 attacks at BAB that do 2d8 +1d12 damage on a successful hit at lv. 20, BEFORE applying other feats, magic/psionic items, and your Psywarrior powers.
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Old 05-25-2010, 06:00 PM   Top  -  End  -  #10
DragoonWraith
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Default Re: The Fighter Incarnate [3.5 Base Class] (WIP) (PEACH)

First: Willpower makes me think of Will, as in the Saving Throw. Actually, I thought Will was short for Willpower (though a quick check of the SRD shows me that I am wrong). I think Determination might work better - it sounds more Fighter-ish to me anyway.

Second: Do the Bonus Feats come from the Fighter Bonus Feat List, or can you take any Feat you can justify as "combat-oriented"?

Third: BAB is usually written out with Iteratives in the table (+16/+11/+6/+1 at 16th, for example) - I think technically by RAW your table would imply that the Fighter Incarnate never gets Iteratives (though, now that I think about it, I almost like that idea... hmm - too much of a system overhaul though.)

Fourth: Yay Incarnum!

Fifth: I haven't read the individual Paths. Sorry. There're just... a lot of them. I'll try to later when I have time.

Sixth: On tanking: The most efficient and successful way to make Tanks work is, I think, to steal a term from WoW/4e, "Marks" - give the Tank ways to either force someone to attack him, or else punish them dearly for attacking anyone else.

3.5 has very little of this - there's the Shield Other effect (lets you soak some damage for another; is decent but they're probably still better off attacking the Wizard), the Knight's Test of Mettle (decent but save DC requires Knight levels and anyone but you attacking the target breaks the effect), the Goad feat (absolutely awful), the Crusader's Defensive Rebuke (requires being adjacent to protected ally), and as far as I know, that's about it.

I suggest adding some features like these to the various Paths. Goading enemies into attacking only you on a failed Will save (I know you've played DotA - consider something like Axe's Taunt ability), getting free attacks of opportunity against those who attack an ally next to you, etc. That will allow you to tank, because foes will have a very serious deterrence against ignoring you (the tank's usual problem).

Hope that helps!
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Old 05-25-2010, 06:05 PM   Top  -  End  -  #11
peterpaulrubens
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Default Re: The Fighter Incarnate [3.5 Base Class] (WIP) (PEACH)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernir View Post
I wanted a Path to give them a social option aside from Intimidate, but I think I missed the goal, here. The sense of nonmagicalness is getting way too thin, particularly with the Greatest Focus.
I think Imperious Commander could add to Diplomacy and Intimidate without being overpowered.
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Old 05-25-2010, 06:17 PM   Top  -  End  -  #12
Oslecamo
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Default Re: The Fighter Incarnate [3.5 Base Class] (WIP) (PEACH)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernir View Post
The sense of nonmagicalness is getting way too thin, particularly with the Greatest Focus.
Speaking of wich, why the "extraordinary abilities that somehow stop magic items"? It's not like he would be broken or anything if he could equip your average equipment. In particular because of flying (how your FI in the story ever beated a dragon whitout flying that I would really like to know)

Actualy, your class seems to reward the player for investing in scrolls and potions and pretend he's a caster even more than normal.
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Old 05-25-2010, 07:04 PM   Top  -  End  -  #13
Ernir
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Default Re: The Fighter Incarnate [3.5 Base Class] (WIP) (PEACH)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimbur View Post
Path of the Outnumbered is... not very powerful.
Seriously? I thought that was one of the more breakable ones.

It's a crapload of attacks you're getting. And I kind of assumed you wouldn't be taking it unless you regularly find yourself able to threaten enough enemies to make the morale bonuses stack up.

The Arms bind is a near-duplicate of the Dance of Death ability given by the Paimon Vestige (ToM). I find it fairly good, really. Again, assuming there's a bunch of people on the battlefield.

The Shoulder bind doubles your number of attacks. Should I make these attacks not AoOs but just plain free attacks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lateral Master View Post
This... is pretty good.
Whoo! \o/

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
First: Willpower makes me think of Will, as in the Saving Throw. Actually, I thought Will was short for Willpower (though a quick check of the SRD shows me that I am wrong). I think Determination might work better - it sounds more Fighter-ish to me anyway.
Huh. I still like Willpower, but that may be some WoD influence creeping in.

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Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
Second: Do the Bonus Feats come from the Fighter Bonus Feat List, or can you take any Feat you can justify as "combat-oriented"?
That's the Fighter Bonus Feat List.
In fact, that is nearly a copypasta of the PHB Fighter entry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
Third: BAB is usually written out with Iteratives in the table (+16/+11/+6/+1 at 16th, for example) - I think technically by RAW your table would imply that the Fighter Incarnate never gets Iteratives (though, now that I think about it, I almost like that idea... hmm - too much of a system overhaul though.)
Oh, oops. That table did look off. I'll fix that.

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Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
Fourth: Yay Incarnum!
Yep. I recently borrowed the book. After I managed to crunch it into my cranium, MoI has become one of my top three favourite D&D sourcebooks (along with the MIC and the ToB).

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Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
Sixth: On tanking: The most efficient and successful way to make Tanks work is, I think, to steal a term from WoW/4e, "Marks" - give the Tank ways to either force someone to attack him, or else punish them dearly for attacking anyone else.

3.5 has very little of this - there's the Shield Other effect (lets you soak some damage for another; is decent but they're probably still better off attacking the Wizard), the Knight's Test of Mettle (decent but save DC requires Knight levels and anyone but you attacking the target breaks the effect), the Goad feat (absolutely awful), the Crusader's Defensive Rebuke (requires being adjacent to protected ally), and as far as I know, that's about it.

I suggest adding some features like these to the various Paths. Goading enemies into attacking only you on a failed Will save (I know you've played DotA - consider something like Axe's Taunt ability), getting free attacks of opportunity against those who attack an ally next to you, etc. That will allow you to tank, because foes will have a very serious deterrence against ignoring you (the tank's usual problem).
I had in mind to make a Path that gives some kind of Test of Mettle ability, at least. Mechanics to absorb others' damage/hurt those who hurt your friends/hurt those who don't hurt you would be cool too, I just haven't figured out how to make Paths for those abilities yet.

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Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
Hope that helps!
It does, thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
Speaking of wich, why the "extraordinary abilities that somehow stop magic items"? It's not like he would be broken or anything if he could equip your average equipment. In particular because of flying (how your FI in the story ever beated a dragon whitout flying that I would really like to know)
The idea was that the Focus abilities largely replace magic items. A lot of the Paths deviate from that, but the original idea was to create a warrior who actually has a chance of not getting cluster****ed in a higher level game without having a Third Eye Conceal on his face, a Ring of Evasion on one finger and a ring of Freedom of Movement on the other, and a golf bag of different DR-countering weapons in his Haversack.
A FI can get away with using fewer of these than any non-spellcaster I can think of. I thought of the Focuses taking up your magic item slots as a balancing factor for that.

On your parenthesis: Anti-air tactics are a valid concern, one I should probably have paid more attention to. Right now, I guess the FI's best bet would have been to Path of the Butcher away the dragon's wings, forcing it down. Not a sure bet, but I hope he'd stand a better chance than an equally well funded Fighter.

Any ideas on a Path of the Dragonslayer or a Path of the One Who Throws Really Huge Rocks?
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Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
Actualy, your class seems to reward the player for investing in scrolls and potions and pretend he's a caster even more than normal.
I don't see that. It does free up your WBL a lot, but I don't see any synergy at all between the Path abilities and turning yourself into an UMD-caster.
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Last edited by Ernir : 05-25-2010 at 07:05 PM.
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Old 05-25-2010, 07:20 PM   Top  -  End  -  #14
DragoonWraith
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Default Re: The Fighter Incarnate [3.5 Base Class] (WIP) (PEACH)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernir View Post
Huh. I still like Willpower, but that may be some WoD influence creeping in.
Heh, never played it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernir View Post
That's the Fighter Bonus Feat List.
In fact, that is nearly a copypasta of the PHB Fighter entry.
Thought it sounded familiar; seeing as it doesn't say "Fighter Incarnate Bonus Feat List", you should probably specify.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernir View Post
Oh, oops. That table did look off. I'll fix that.
Cool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernir View Post
Yep. I recently borrowed the book. After I managed to crunch it into my cranium, MoI has become one of my top three favourite D&D sourcebooks (along with the MIC and the ToB).
Hmm... yeah, I pretty much agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernir View Post
I had in mind to make a Path that gives some kind of Test of Mettle ability, at least. Mechanics to absorb others' damage/hurt those who hurt your friends/hurt those who don't hurt you would be cool too, I just haven't figured out how to make Paths for those abilities yet.
I'd actually add abilities like that to several different paths not necessarily focused exclusively on the idea. Figure it's something most Fighter Incarnates are going to want to be able to do, and sprinkle it around pretty liberally, would be my suggestion, giving them each an option of that type that fits within their own theme.

For example, the Eye Focus on the Path of the Stoic strikes me as a little odd, and something like "every enemy in a 20 ft Burst around you must pass a Will save or attack you exclusively for 1+Willpower rounds; you gain a +4 Stoic bonus to AC" might make a lot of sense for a Stoic (I see a Stoic as absorbing a lot of hits and shrugging them off, ya know, stoically), so you might do something like that.

Picking another at random, say the Marksman (I haven't even read the Marksman's bonuses, so I don't know where to put this) can get a free shot against anyone attacking an ally in 30 ft., every time they attack. Works nicely in buffing their Action Economy, and really punishes people for attacking an ally (though a Marksman, come to think of it, is probably not really so much a tank - maybe make this a bonus on your rock-hurling dude?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernir View Post
It does, thanks.
No problem!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernir View Post
I don't see that. It does free up your WBL a lot, but I don't see any synergy at all between the Path abilities and turning yourself into an UMD-caster.
Well, it frees up WBL, it prevents using other items, and you still need some magical effects. Investing in UMD now seems like an almost must...
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Old 05-25-2010, 07:36 PM   Top  -  End  -  #15
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Originally Posted by Ernir View Post
The Arms bind is a near-duplicate of the Dance of Death ability given by the Paimon Vestige (ToM). I find it fairly good, really. Again, assuming there's a bunch of people on the battlefield.
By itself it's pretty underwhelming. You're spreading out your attacks to all your enemies, whereas they're all hitting you. Odds are they get the better end of the bargain.

But, if you combine it with say, the foot bind of the Magekiller path, and all your opponents are out of reach when you smack them so they can't return AoOs on you, it gets much better. But that may not be that many battle fields where you can stay out of reach like that.

So, it has potential to be good in the right situation.. but you're giving up something else that may be good more often. So the Outnumbered feels a little lackluster.

Adding something to the Path of the Outnumbered Arms bind that limits the AoOs against you may be good; like maybe they only get an AoO on you if you fail to damage them.

Also, you probably want to clarify how the Outnumbered morale bonus works with the Arm bind. Is it the threatened space at the start of your turn? at each attack? I.e... with the Arm bind you could be facing lots of enemies, but be moving so that no more than one is in your threatened space at one time. I'd personally go with "most advantageous"; either the bonus as it was at your starting square, or your bonus at the current square, whichever is greater.
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Old 05-26-2010, 04:15 PM   Top  -  End  -  #16
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Default Re: The Fighter Incarnate [3.5 Base Class] (WIP) (PEACH)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernir View Post
Any ideas on a Path of the Dragonslayer or a Path of the One Who Throws Really Huge Rocks?
Actualy, I have. Check the rope combat chain. I made it specifically as an flavourfull non-magical way for fighters to counter air oponents with swords.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernir View Post
I don't see that. It does free up your WBL a lot, but I don't see any synergy at all between the Path abilities and turning yourself into an UMD-caster.
-You still have your WBL.
-There's just so much you can pimp out your sword.
-Your paths don't stack with magic items.
-Your paths stack with temporary buffs.
-Temporary buffs can be gained from scrolls.
-You've got spare WBL to spend.
-Get UMD
-?
-Profit as you fly polymorphed greater resistanced hasted with your paths working at full power!
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Old 05-26-2010, 06:02 PM   Top  -  End  -  #17
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Originally Posted by Ernir View Post
[i]

Bonus Feats:
At 1st level, a Fighter Incarnate gets a bonus combat-oriented feat in addition to the feat that any 1st-level character gets and the bonus feat grated to a human character. The Fighter Incarnate gains an additional bonus feat at 2nd leveland every two Fighter Incarnate levels thereafter.. .. .
So, just out of curiosity - was that on purpose that you gave the extra feat to everyone? Say an elf takes this, the way it is worded, they would get this human feat as well, right?

Just noticed it and thought I would ask.

Also, I'm looking it over, and really like what I see. I'm no master of homebrewing, but I think it's very well done, so kudos.
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Old 05-26-2010, 07:27 PM   Top  -  End  -  #18
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Default Re: The Fighter Incarnate [3.5 Base Class] (WIP) (PEACH)

Ok, to me it seems like a fighter with a ton of bonuses.
What do you lose by picking this class instead of fighter?
The same HD, the same amount of bonus feats, the same BAB, More skills, bonus class features, two high saves, and gets "magic items" (or something in corresponding strength) for free.

Why would people ever pick up a fighter again?

No, it was not a rhetorical question. Please answer and give me some insight
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Old 05-26-2010, 07:30 PM   Top  -  End  -  #19
Lateral
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Originally Posted by Yuven View Post
Ok, to me it seems like a fighter with a ton of bonuses.
What do you lose by picking this class instead of fighter?
The same HD, the same amount of bonus feats, the same BAB, More skills, bonus class features, two high saves, and gets "magic items" (or something in corresponding strength) for free.

Why would people ever pick up a fighter again?

No, it was not a rhetorical question. Please answer and give me some insight
Well, nothing, other than the fact that this is a fighter replacement.
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Old 05-26-2010, 07:50 PM   Top  -  End  -  #20
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Default Re: The Fighter Incarnate [3.5 Base Class] (WIP) (PEACH)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DueceEsMachine View Post
So, just out of curiosity - was that on purpose that you gave the extra feat to everyone? Say an elf takes this, the way it is worded, they would get this human feat as well, right?
You are reading it incorrectly. If he had meant to give the bonus human feat to anyone, in addition to the 1st level fighter feat, there would be an additional set of commas in there. See below for how it would read if he meant that.

Quote:
Bonus Feats:
At 1st level, a Fighter Incarnate gets a bonus combat-oriented feat, in addition to the feat that any 1st-level character gets,and the bonus feat granted to a human character. The Fighter Incarnate gains an additional bonus feat at 2nd level and every two Fighter Incarnate levels thereafter.. .. .
I would write it this way

Bonus Feats:
At 1st level, a Fighter Incarnate gets a bonus combat-oriented feat, which is in addition to any other feat that is normally available at this level. The Fighter Incarnate gains an additional bonus feat at 2nd level and every two Fighter Incarnate levels thereafter.. .. .

Last edited by Eldonauran : 05-26-2010 at 07:56 PM.
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Old 05-26-2010, 08:02 PM   Top  -  End  -  #21
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Originally Posted by Lateral Master View Post
Well, nothing, other than the fact that this is a fighter replacement.
So, the point was to get rid of fighters altogether(or close to)?
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Old 05-26-2010, 08:13 PM   Top  -  End  -  #22
Lateral
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Default Re: The Fighter Incarnate [3.5 Base Class] (WIP) (PEACH)

Ya. See fourth post.

They do NOT suck at fighting. They just suck at everything other than fighting.
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Last edited by Lateral : 05-27-2010 at 02:06 PM.
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Old 05-26-2010, 08:50 PM   Top  -  End  -  #23
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Default Re: The Fighter Incarnate [3.5 Base Class] (WIP) (PEACH)

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Originally Posted by Yuven View Post
So, the point was to get rid of fighters altogether(or close to)?
Well... Fighters suck at fighting, and are the second worst class in the PHB, and can't really do anything. So we like to replace them. It's a good thing to do.
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Old 05-26-2010, 09:08 PM   Top  -  End  -  #24
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Default Re: The Fighter Incarnate [3.5 Base Class] (WIP) (PEACH)

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Originally Posted by Ernir View Post
There is a limit to the amount of Willpower a hero can invest in any one of his Paths. This maximum is either the hero's Constitution modifier or the value given on the following table:
You should clarify whether the maximum limit is the greater or lesser of the two.

This is a pretty good class so far, just pointing out a nitpick I found.
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Old 05-26-2010, 11:58 PM   Top  -  End  -  #25
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Default Re: The Fighter Incarnate [3.5 Base Class] (WIP) (PEACH)

You might add in natural attacks or improved unarmed damage.

Not grow claws and teeth style of natural attacks, but putting finger through skull kind.

Action economy wise
Something like the Chimera bind that allowed for an extra move/standard action at the cost of next turns move/standard action.
Extra far 5' steps, movement during a full attacks like Paimon's or dervishes dance. Move with oppurtunity attacks.
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Old 05-27-2010, 05:46 AM   Top  -  End  -  #26
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Default Re: The Fighter Incarnate [3.5 Base Class] (WIP) (PEACH)

On the Path of the Mauler, 'willpower' isn't bolded.
It looks really good to me!

You said that spells can give extra willpower... for some reason, I made one.

Might Of Heroes
Enchantment (Mind Affecting)

Level: Clr 3, Drd 3, Pal 2, Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

The target gains additional willpower equal to his total class level in any classes that grant willpower. This bonus may not be higher than your caster level. At the end of the duration, this bonus willpower is lost along with all benefits derived from it.
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Old 05-27-2010, 09:47 AM   Top  -  End  -  #27
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Default Re: The Fighter Incarnate [3.5 Base Class] (WIP) (PEACH)

Add Daze to the Path of the Stalwart

Could you put up a sample character so we can make sure what you wrote is what you meant for your abilities?
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Old 05-27-2010, 01:31 PM   Top  -  End  -  #28
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Default Re: The Fighter Incarnate [3.5 Base Class] (WIP) (PEACH)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
Actualy, I have. Check the rope combat chain. I made it specifically as an flavourfull non-magical way for fighters to counter air oponents with swords.
Cool stuff. High level feat chains providing tactical options are something the Fighter can really use too (perhaps more so than anything I have done here ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
-You still have your WBL.
-There's just so much you can pimp out your sword.
-Your paths don't stack with magic items.
-Your paths stack with temporary buffs.
-Temporary buffs can be gained from scrolls.
-You've got spare WBL to spend.
-Get UMD
-?
-Profit as you fly polymorphed greater resistanced hasted with your paths working at full power!
OK.
Is this something you see as a problem with the Incarnum classes as well?

Because really, if loading up on cross-class UMD is what people want to do, I'm not sure what anyone can do to stop them... =/

Quote:
Originally Posted by DueceEsMachine View Post
So, just out of curiosity - was that on purpose that you gave the extra feat to everyone? Say an elf takes this, the way it is worded, they would get this human feat as well, right?

Just noticed it and thought I would ask.
That section is almost straight from the PHB.

You know, I'm actually kind of glad that the piece of text which is raising the most eyebrows is one I didn't write.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuven View Post
Ok, to me it seems like a fighter with a ton of bonuses.
What do you lose by picking this class instead of fighter?
The same HD, the same amount of bonus feats, the same BAB, More skills, bonus class features, two high saves, and gets "magic items" (or something in corresponding strength) for free.

Why would people ever pick up a fighter again?

No, it was not a rhetorical question. Please answer and give me some insight
I consider this a Fighter replacement, it's not suitable to be used in games where the unmodified Fighter class is intended to be anything but an NPC class (at most).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krazddndfreek View Post
You should clarify whether the maximum limit is the greater or lesser of the two.
Ah, right. Will do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lans View Post
You might add in natural attacks or improved unarmed damage.

Not grow claws and teeth style of natural attacks, but putting finger through skull kind.

Action economy wise
Something like the Chimera bind that allowed for an extra move/standard action at the cost of next turns move/standard action.
Extra far 5' steps, movement during a full attacks like Paimon's or dervishes dance. Move with oppurtunity attacks.
Interesting ideas, I'll look into it.

Paimon's ability is already there in the Path of the Outnumbered, but that may be subject to change.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
On the Path of the Mauler, 'willpower' isn't bolded.
Oops. Fix on the way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
You said that spells can give extra willpower... for some reason, I made one.

Might Of Heroes
Enchantment (Mind Affecting)

Level: Clr 3, Drd 3, Pal 2, Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

The target gains additional willpower equal to his total class level in any classes that grant willpower. This bonus may not be higher than your caster level. At the end of the duration, this bonus willpower is lost along with all benefits derived from it.
Hmm. A problem I see with that - every class increases Willpower. So for the cost of a 3rd level slot by an equal level caster, you're doubling your Willpower reserve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lans View Post
Add Daze to the Path of the Stalwart

Could you put up a sample character so we can make sure what you wrote is what you meant for your abilities?
Hmm. Daze immunity is powerful as hell, but yes, it's something that's really hard for mundanes to get. Need to reshuffle the Stalwart abilities a bit to fit it in.

As for a sample character - it's on the to-do list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
It looks really good to me!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krazddndfreek View Post
This is a pretty good class so far, just pointing out a nitpick I found.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DueceEsMachine View Post
Also, I'm looking it over, and really like what I see. I'm no master of homebrewing, but I think it's very well done, so kudos.
Whoo! \o/
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Old 05-27-2010, 02:03 PM   Top  -  End  -  #29
Bergor Terraf
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Default Re: The Fighter Incarnate [3.5 Base Class] (WIP) (PEACH)

What would happen if a fighter incarnate, with path of the anvil and use the special strike from the shoulder focus on a gelatinous cube? There might be a spine in there (from a previous lunch), but I don't think breking it will paralyze him.
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Old 05-27-2010, 02:21 PM   Top  -  End  -  #30
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Default Re: The Fighter Incarnate [3.5 Base Class] (WIP) (PEACH)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernir View Post
Cool stuff. High level feat chains providing tactical options are something the Fighter can really use too (perhaps more so than anything I have done here ).
Well thanks!

I should really go back to that project if I wasn't busy with classes and my custom monsters and my PbP campaigns grumble grumble

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernir View Post
OK.
Is this something you see as a problem with the Incarnum classes as well?

Because really, if loading up on cross-class UMD is what people want to do, I'm not sure what anyone can do to stop them... =/
That's kinda the point. People may complain about the tree christmas effect, but they'll still want to spend their WBL in shiny powerfull stuff at every oportunity. Someone playing incarnum won't exactly discard magic items. He'll just seek ways to bypass the limitations and still come out as a christmas tree.

Just like a druid will get wildshape armor and pimp his animal companion with metal barding and wild clasps in everything else and the wizard will have a fullplate made of magic scrolls and metamagic rods.
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