Angelic Paragons: Ascendant of Agapeial (PEACH)

[Sir_Chivalry]

Base thread for sanding out my ideas: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149641

Hello all again. This time, I'm taking a walk on the good side, and doing a two-fold homebrew project. There are no angelic paragons, and due to certain restrictions, I can't use archangels, so I'm creating both angelic paragons and PrCs for those from whole cloth. This is the second of the bunch, the Ascendant of Agapeil! Fluff for the angelic paragon coming soon, but I'll start with the basics now. And yes, this is influenced an borrowed heavily from the Kensai class.

Spoiler

Agapeial (Eh-gaep-il) is the paragon of astral devas, the angels that watch over the portals to the transitive planes. He resides on the Beastlands, not in a fortress like his fellow angelic paragons, but in a travelling band of astral devas and awakened animals simply called the Farseeing. They travel all the Beastlands looking for intruders and evil creatures, expelling them where they can and killing when they must. The band sometimes numbers hundreds strong when a dire threat is posed by the fiends or the armies of the transitive planes, but usually most of his awakened animals are on their own in the plane, and most of his astral devas are fighting the githyanki of the Astral Plane, the ethergaunts of the Ethereal Plane, or the shadar-kai of the Shadow Plane.

These fights do sometimes claim the lives of his astral devas, and though they can't truly die, they must still wait for 99 years before reforming, and so Agapeial has devised a way for them to contribute to the effort even in pseudo-death. He binds the spirits of slain angels into the weapons and armour of his armies, thus making each wave more potent then the last.

Agapeial stands 11 feet tall, with copper skin and white feathery wings. His mignight blue hair and beard both reach down to his stomach and his skin is speckled with flecks of green, yellow, olive and tan miniature plates. All about him transparent images flow, little spirits dancing around him in wheels. He wears no armour or garments, but instead is clad in a cloak of dire polarbear skin, complete with fur. He obtained the cloak from a mighty celestial dire polarbear he defeated in single combat, who gave itself up to gard the angelic paragon. Legend says that the cloak is impenetrable to all mortal and most immortal weapons. When battle comes to him, or if he must venture onto the transitive planes, Agapeial wields both a greataxe and a longbow to fight.

Agapeial is a frequent visitor to the Grove of Unicorns on Krigala in the Beastlands, the domain of Ehlonna. He meets with the goddess of nature there, and some rumour that they are lovers. This does seem to have some substance to it, as clerics and druids of Ehlonna are often directed by their goddess to aid the Order of the Farseeing. The other nature gods give Agapeial a lesser, but still varying, response. Obad-hai and the various minor nature gods of neutrality mostly ignore Agapeial in his crusades, since his war is upon the transitive planes and not nature. Many of the evil deities of nature attempt to thwart his Order when possible, seeking to limit the celestial influence in what they see as the otherwise terrible beauty of nature. Servants of certain "nature-based" demon lords such as Zuggtmoy also may oppose the works of Agapeial, seeking to sow destruction, not caring for natural or celestial grace in any fashion.

The mortal Order of the Farseeing concerns itself mainly with Agapeial's two open-ended mandates when the order was founded; "be vigilant to evil" and "deliver innocence from ravage". Most members of the order spend great amounts of time in the wilderness seeking to discover evil before it harms the innocent, fulfilling both mandates, but all members remember these two things in everything they do. Agapeial's symbol is a nine-pointed star, three points black, three gray and three white, set into a circle of some metal.

Ascendant of Agapeial

Requirements
To qualify to become an ascendant of Agapeial, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Alignment: Any good
Skills: Concentration 4 ranks, Handle Animal 8 ranks, Listen 6 ranks, Spot 6 ranks
Feats: Acolyte of the Archangels (Agapeial), Spirit Sense, Weapon Focus (any weapon)
Class Features: Evasion

Ascendant of Agapeial

hit dice:d8

Level	Base Attack Bonus	Fort Save	Ref Save	Will Save	Special
1st	+1	+0	+0	+2	Forge of Spirit
2nd	+2	+0	+0	+3	Transcendence
3rd	+3	+1	+1	+3	Astral state
4th	+4	+1	+1	+4	Spirit projection (half)
5th	+5	+1	+1	+4	Withstand
6th	+6	+2	+2	+5	Ethereal state
7th	+7	+2	+2	+5	Spirit projection (full)
8th	+8	+2	+2	+6	Instill spirit bond
9th	+9	+3	+3	+6	Shadow state
10th	+10	+3	+3	+7	Spirit warlord

Class Skills
The ascendant of Agapeial’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex)

Skill Points
6 + Int modifier

Forge of Spirit: The ascendant of Agapeial chooses one of his weapons (it must be one for which he has the Weapon Focus feat) to become a spirit weapon. If the weapon is manufactured, it must be masterwork in quality.

Upon qualifying for this class, Agapeial sends the ascendant the spirit of one of his fallen warriors to bind into the weapon. This forms a link between the ascendant and the weapon, which the ascendant then uses to bind a portion of his life force into the weapon, making it more deadly in his hands, and his hands alone. As the ascendant gains levels, he uses the spirits of opponents he has defeated to establish this link again at each new level, showing respect for honourable opponents and laying to rest dishonourable ones.
The process for imbuing a weapon with power is a simple one. The character must find a quiet, safe spot to meditate for 24 hours upon his victories and losses, the enemies and friends who have gone on to their rightful rest.

If the ritual is interrupted, it can be begun again at any time, but it must run for the full 24 hours for the spirit weapon to be imbued. The XP cost isn’t paid until the ritual is completed.

The spirit weapon has a caster level of 10+the character’s class level.
If the weapon is damaged or stolen and it must be repaired or recovered. In the case of recovering the weapon, if the ascendant cannot recover the weapon, he cannot advance in this class until he obtains an atonement spell and then reforges his weapon anew, paying XP as appropriate. If the weapon is damaged, the ascendant must repair it with Craft (weapon-smithing).

The ascendant gains different abilities at each level, as noted on the table below.

Spoiler

Level	Spirit Weapon Ability
1st	While wielding the spirit weapon, the ascendant gains the favoured enemy class feature against one creature type per encounter. The ascendant adds +2 to his damage rolls, as well as his Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot and Survival checks. The type is chosen at the beginning of the encounter as a swift action. This bonus stacks with other favoured enemy bonuses against the same type.
2nd	The weapon's hardness increases by 5.
3rd	The spirit weapon gains ascendant's choice of the ghost touch ability, a permanant gravestrike spell, or a permanent golem strike spell.
4th	The weapon's hit points increase by 20.
5th	The bonus gained from the spirit weapon's favoured enemy bonus increases to +4.
6th	The spirit weapon gains ascendant's choice of the ghost touch ability, a permanant gravestrike spell, or a permanent golem strike.
7th	Once per day, the ascendant can ignore the DR of an opponent for one round.
8th	The spirit weapon's crit range doubles. If the ascendant has the Improved Critical feat or the keen weapon ability, the weapon instead is treated as one size larger on a critical hit.
9th	The spirit weapon gains ascendant's choice of the ghost touch ability, a permanant gravestrike spell, or a permanent golem strike spell.
10th	The bonus gained from the spirit weapon's favoured enemy bonus increases to +6.

Transcendence: At 2nd level, an ascendant of Agapeial gains the ability to make a DC 15 Concentration check as a move action to focus his energy and spirit. If he succeeds, he gains +8 sacred bonus to his Strength for a number of rounds equal to one half his class level. Each time after the first that an ascendant attempts to use this ability in a single 24-hour period, the check DC increases by 5.

Astral State: The great beasts of the material plane exist in endless varieties, but they all perpetuate to a small group of paragons, many of whom reside on the Beastlands. An ascendant of Agapeial can access these mighty spirits with a vision quest, allowing him to bond with a spirit and gain advantages. At 3rd level, an ascendant of Agapeial can cast his mind out on to the Astral Plane. The vision quest can be short (3d20 minutes), medium (2d12 hours) or long (1d6 days). The DM rolls the exact time in secret. For the length of the vision quest, the ascendant cannot eat, drink or sleep, though the quest can be ended without penalty. At the end of the vision quest, the ascendant take 1d4 points of Wisdom damage.

Use the following table to determine which Spirit answered the ascendent. If he was on a Short quest, roll a random Totem. A Medium quest grants the choice of two rolls, while a Long quest lets the ascendant choose the spirit. See the table below:

Spoiler

d8	Spirit	Bonus
1	Bear	+4 on checks to resist special attacks (bull rush, overrun, disarm, trip, grapple, feint)
2	Boar	+10 hp on threshold before dying, i.e. doesn't die until -20 hp
3	Eagle	+2 bonus on Reflex saves and +4 bonus on grapple checks
4	Hare	+50’ land speed when running (added after multiplication of base land speed) and +3 bonus on Initiative checks
5	Lion	+2 bonus on Will saves and enemies take a -2 penalty on attacks and saves for one round after you charge
6	Rat	+2 bonus on Fortitude saves and +4 to feint opponents and sleight of hand checks to conceal weapons
7	Shark	Any creature that attacks you with a natural weapon takes 1d4 points of damage. Any creature thus damaged takes a -3 penalty to AC against your attacks for one round.
8	Wolf	+2 bonus on attacks and damage for each ally who is adjacent to you or flanking the enemy you are attacking.

Once the spirit is present, the ascendant can attempt a Handle Animal check against a DC of 20 with 10 minutes of meditation. If this check fails, the ascendant can retry by spending another 10 minutes in meditation. Once successful, the ascendant gains the listed bonus for 2 days per ascendant of Agapeial level. Once this time has expired, the ascendant may go on a new Vision Quest.

Spirit Projection: An ascendant of Agapeial uses his connection to the spirits of his foes and allies who have fallen, allowing him to also influence the minds of the living in a small way. At 4th level and higher, an ascendant of Agapeial adds one-half his class level (round down) to any Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, or Intimidate checks he makes. At 7th level and higher, the ascendant adds his full class level to such checks.

Withstand: When a 5th level or higher ascendant of Agapeial is forced to make a Reflex save to avoid damage from an area effect, he can make a Concentration check instead of a Reflex save to resist taking full damage. Evasion (and improved evasion, if possesed) apply on this Concentration check as well. Unlike a normal skill check, the roll automatically fails on a 1, and automatically succeeds on a 20.

Ethereal State: When going on a vision quest, a 6th level ascendant of Agapeial may instead connect with the Ethereal Plane as opposed to the Astral Plane. This causes the damage taken to instead become 1d4 Wisdom damage and 1d4 Strength damage, but the bonuses and maximum values are doubled.

Instill Spirit Bond: Once per day, an 8th level or higher ascendant of Agapeial may take a full-round action to make a Concentration check (DC 15+target’s HD or character level) to impart some of his own ability into a willing ally he can touch. The ascendant then transfers some of his power to the ally: He subtracts up to 1 point per class level from his base attack bonus and/or any or all of his base save bonus and transfers the same amount to the recipient. The ascendant regains the instilled power 1 hour later, when it transfers back out of the ally. If the ally dies before the instilled power is transferred back, the ascendant must make a Fortitude save (DC 10+target’s HD or character level) or die as well. If he succeeds, he immediately gets his instilled powers back.

Shadow State: When going on a vision quest, a 9th level ascendant of Agapeial may instead connect with the Shadow Plane as opposed to the Astral Plane. This causes the damage taken to instead become 1d4 Wisdom damage, 1d4 Strength damage and 1d4 Constitution damage, but the bonuses and maximum values are tripled.

Spirit Warlord: A 10th level ascendant of Agapeial grants a +3 morale bonus on Will saves, Concentration checks and attack rolls to all allies within 30ft. Also, the time it takes to go on a vision quest is reduced to half (rounded up).


And the Acolyte of the Archangels feat
Acolyte of the Archangels (Agapeial) [Exalted]
You swear fealty to Agapeial, binder of spirits and master of vigilance.
Benefit: At will, you may use the detect evil spell as a spell-like ability. As well, you gain the ability to sense spirits (incorporeal undead, fey, elementals, see spirit shaman) within 60ft as if you had blindsense.
Special: Once you take this feat, you may not take it again, nor can you take either the Servant of the Heavens feat, Knight of the Stars or the Favored of the Companions feat. Your allegiance is only yours to give once.

[DracoDei]

My first thought on this project as a whole has been that the whole idea of TYPES of angels having a leader strikes me as implausible, since they are all supposed to be working together towards a common goal. I would have thought that "combined arms" would be the name of the game. Certainly it is in contrast to the fiendish leaders who DO have combined arms under them to one extent or another. I know I am VERY late in mentioning this, but you only now PMed me, and I don't ALWAYS give every thought I have when I glance at a thread. Note also that I could be completely wrong about this, and only some of the fluff would need to be changed, since the Angels DO specialize in certain tasks, so learning to fight in a way that uses heavenly power to imitate the methods of a given type of angel does make some sense... and oddly enough what I remember of the fluff (which I can't access since I am Away From Books and the SRD omits fluff I think), of the Core angels does tend to argue against combined arms.


Forge of the Spirit: Needs to be on the chart. I would suggest combining it with Spirit Weapon, but I think breaking it up helps clarity. Make Spirit Weapon just a side chart, not listed on the level chart.

Did you really mean that imbuing a single Bite requires 110% of the cost of imbuing a Great-sword?

In the case of repairing a weapon, did you REALLY mean that the Ascendant can't get anyone else to do it for them? If so that is a dangerous trap if the person can't advance levels in the PRC, and has neglected to put any points into the requisite Craft skill.


Spirit Weapon: Again, upon actually opening this spoiler I think you should remove this from the class list, and just make it a reference table for Forge of the Spirit.


Transcendence: Can this stack with itself? I assume not. Note also that the DC is trivial to start out with. Was that intentional?


Astral State: Specify that the GM should roll the quest length secretly. Since they are meant to be about equally likely, just have it rolled on a d8 rather than d%.

What is the link between the base angel and animals, if any?

Eagle: Why a bonus on Grapple?
Shark: Can non-attack actions be mixed in-between attack actions? Note that this discourages full-attacks to a certain extent, which is opposed to the whole "shark frenzy" concept. Perhaps make it cumulative attacks that hit (just like you currently have), but make it only reset if you go a round without hitting the target, or hit another target (except with an AoO?).
Rat: You realize that anything with 10' reach satisfies this if you are medium or smaller and adjacent to it, right?



Spirit Projection: Needs Fluff.



Withstand: Since Evasion is a pre-requisite of the class, you need to reword this. something along the lines of "Evasion (or Improved Evasion) applies to this as well", also, since I think skill checks and saves work differently with regard to natural 1's and natural 20's you need to specify which way those work in this case.


Astral State: Still pretty easy to fix the ability score damage at those levels...


Instill Spirit Bond: Hmm... pretty cool ability... very dangerous to use since if they die, you do to... beward of high level leadership shenanigans with someone taking a member of this class as there cohort and then leaving themin a safe location after getting +8 to their BAB and Saves (you never capped the bonuses at the donator's bases, was that intentional?)


Shadow State: Probably WELL worth the Restoration , Greater scroll...


Spirit Warlord: Seems a little boring, but I assume it matches one of the abilities of the base Angel?


Feat: Very weak I think... maybe if you allowed it to be activated AFTER the result of the roll (including how much it failed or succeeded by) is known it would be worth it.

[Sir_Chivalry]

Originally Posted by DracoDei

My first thought on this project as a whole has been that the whole idea of TYPES of angels having a leader strikes me as implausible, since they are all supposed to be working together towards a common goal. I would have thought that "combined arms" would be the name of the game. Certainly it is in contrast to the fiendish leaders who DO have combined arms under them to one extent or another. I know I am VERY late in mentioning this, but you only now PMed me, and I don't ALWAYS give every thought I have when I glance at a thread. Note also that I could be completely wrong about this, and only some of the fluff would need to be changed, since the Angels DO specialize in certain tasks, so learning to fight in a way that uses heavenly power to imitate the methods of a given type of angel does make some sense... and oddly enough what I remember of the fluff (which I can't access since I am Away From Books and the SRD omits fluff I think), of the Core angels does tend to argue against combined arms.

I’d like to start by saying thank you for PEACHing, you are after all one of the prominent people on this sub-forum.

They idea is that they oversee the angels actions in the Upper Planes. They are very much unique creatures, and though they have many of their categorized type (Isamukemen has Planetars, Agapeial has Astrla Devas) in their courts, I’m trying make them like the other celestial paragons, individuals who each have specific tasks (Isamukemen defends the Upper planes against the formians, Agapeial protects the Material Plane from the armies of the transitive planes, as that would lead to problems down the line.)

Forge of the Spirit: Needs to be on the chart. I would suggest combining it with Spirit Weapon, but I think breaking it up helps clarity. Make Spirit Weapon just a side chart, not listed on the level chart.

Did you really mean that imbuing a single Bite requires 110% of the cost of imbuing a Great-sword?

In the case of repairing a weapon, did you REALLY mean that the Ascendant can't get anyone else to do it for them? If so that is a dangerous trap if the person can't advance levels in the PRC, and has neglected to put any points into the requisite Craft skill.

Mea culpe, Forge of Spirit should have been what was on the chart. Rest of the questions, yes. Yes indeed.

Spirit Weapon: Again, upon actually opening this spoiler I think you should remove this from the class list, and just make it a reference table for Forge of the Spirit.

Done.

Transcendence: Can this stack with itself? I assume not. Note also that the DC is trivial to start out with. Was that intentional?

It’s all intentional, except the stacking thing. Untyped bonus in Kensai, but I think I’ll make it typed, let’s say . . . sacred bonus.

Astral State: Specify that the GM should roll the quest length secretly. Since they are meant to be about equally likely, just have it rolled on a d8 rather than d%.

What is the link between the base angel and animals, if any?

Eagle: Why a bonus on Grapple?
Shark: Can non-attack actions be mixed in-between attack actions? Note that this discourages full-attacks to a certain extent, which is opposed to the whole "shark frenzy" concept. Perhaps make it cumulative attacks that hit (just like you currently have), but make it only reset if you go a round without hitting the target, or hit another target (except with an AoO?).
Rat: You realize that anything with 10' reach satisfies this if you are medium or smaller and adjacent to it, right?

Will do with the quest length, though it’s not really going to affect much. Better to make it secret than not.

No link between Astral Devas and animals, except for the usual malarkey about good and animals. It’s a connection back to both the Beastlands and the paragon angel, who is concerned with spirits.

Note: this ability is based on a feat from Dragon magazine, Altered State, a barbarian feat, thus I’m speculating here, as I didn’t make the source material.

Eagle: I’d assume it’s because eagle’s grip their prey in their talons

Shark: The bonus, as I read it, remains as long as you attack the same person. The attacks need to be consecutive, so I don’t think you could take other actions between.

Rat: If that’s what can happen, all the better for it, since this class is slightly less beefy than the standard barbarian. Rat against ogre, seems pretty good to me.

Spirit Projection: Needs Fluff.

Fluff added.

Withstand: Since Evasion is a pre-requisite of the class, you need to reword this. something along the lines of "Evasion (or Improved Evasion) applies to this as well", also, since I think skill checks and saves work differently with regard to natural 1's and natural 20's you need to specify which way those work in this case.

Done. I’ll note the Concentration follows the failure on a 1, success on a 20 principal of saving throws.

Astral State: Still pretty easy to fix the ability score damage at those levels...

I see no problem there, but if you have something I could use as a penalty instead? I’m not really looking to penalize the ascendant too much, since we’re improving upon an ability 1st level barbarians can have.

Instill Spirit Bond: Hmm... pretty cool ability... very dangerous to use since if they die, you do to... beward of high level leadership shenanigans with someone taking a member of this class as there cohort and then leaving themin a safe location after getting +8 to their BAB and Saves (you never capped the bonuses at the donator's bases, was that intentional?)

The cap for BAB is the donator’s class level, the cap for saves is his base saves.

He subtracts up to (Base Attack bonus line)1 point per class level from his base attack bonus(/Base Attack bonus line) and/or (Save bonus line)any or all of his base save bonus(Save bonus line) and transfers the same amount to the recipient.

Thought I’d quote for clarity, the paragraph is wordy, taken from Kensai.

Shadow State: Probably WELL worth the Restoration , Greater scroll...

See Ethereal State feedback. As I said before, if you have a suggestion for a better penalty, I’ll use it, you know more about this than I do.

Spirit Warlord: Seems a little boring, but I assume it matches one of the abilities of the base Angel?

Slightly supped up Ki Warlord ability from Kensai, with cutting the time in half on vision quests thrown in.

Feat: Very weak I think... maybe if you allowed it to be activated AFTER the result of the roll (including how much it failed or succeeded by) is known it would be worth it.

It is, however, exactly identical to Knight of the Stars, Favoured of the Companions, Servant of the Heavens, Disciple of Darkness and Thrall to Demons.

[DracoDei]

With regards to "rat", "undoing the penalties is easy", and several other things, I was just noting it, not saying it was good or bad.

If you want something harsher than ability damage then the obvious choices are drain (requires spell to remove, and slightly harder to remove with a spell), or burn (can ONLY be recovered naturally, no spells etc.).

Just out of curiousity did you make Knight of the Stars, Favoured(sic) of the Companions, Servant of the Heavens, Disciple of Darkness and/or Thrall to Demons?

[The Tygre]

Ooh! New angel class! You've filled me with joy, my sweet walrus!

[Sir_Chivalry]

Originally Posted by DracoDei

Just out of curiousity did you make Knight of the Stars, Favoured(sic) of the Companions, Servant of the Heavens, Disciple of Darkness and/or Thrall to Demons?

No, they'd be feats from Book of Exalted Deeds and Book of Vile Darkness.

P.S. Favoured is the queen's english. As a canadian, I use that english.

[Tibbaerrohwen]

Hey, the new Angelic Paragon. Nice!
I like how you build upon the spirit guide. I did have a quick question. The Astral State ability is inspired from the Dragon Magazine feat, that also gives a spirit guide, correct? If so, how do they interact? Can you have more than one spirit guide? If you get the same guide from both do the bonuses stack? It was just a queery of mine.
Overall, I think it's good. I like it.
My favourite is still the inspiration and history behind the names. It's like an Easter Egg for reading the thread.

[Eikonos]

Really nice one, I've been waiting to see some NG paragons for a looong time now

[Sir_Chivalry]

Originally Posted by Eikonos

Really nice one, I've been waiting to see some NG paragons for a looong time now

Thank you, feel free to check out the threads here:Main thread and here: Commander of Isamukemen

[Eikonos]

Been there already

So, which paragon is next, hmmm ??

[Milskidasith]

Forge of Spirit: Very... soulknifey, except the fact it actually costs you EXP makes it even worse. Granted, you can get an overall +10 weapon, which is nice, but still it's basically just getting WBL abilities, and until about level five in this class you probably aren't even getting too many benefits.

Transcendence is pretty powerful, but not amazing, especially since this class doesn't have great BAB.

Astral State is... weird, hard to accomplish (only a 50% chance at level 10), and gives very small bonuses. It's really also too complicated when the bonuses are so incredibly minor and, unless you want to hold up your party, very random as well.

Spirit Projection: This is useful for skill checks, although charisma isn't really something this class needs.

Withstand: Very powerful, but it's about the only thing this class has so far, save transcendence.

Ethereal State: I don't understand why you take ability damage to begin with, but basically the same problems apply; it's complicated, only succeeds half the time at level ten, and the bonuses are still minor, besides the save bonuses and the bonuses to trip from wolf.

Instill Spirit Bond: Well, this lets you make your ally very powerful and hard to hit with abilities in exchange for making you weaker, and you can die if you fail a trivially easy fort save. It's unique, but not really powerful, per say, though it makes this a great leadership cohort to have, but any actual player would not really want to be near defenseless in exchange for buffing up allies.

Shadow State: Same problems listed; the +6 to saves and +12 to trip are the only really useful abilities, and it's still very unlikely to work while taking up much of the allies time.

Spirit Warlord: The bonuses are pretty minor.

Overall, I just don't think this class is very strong. The entry feats are pretty terrible (Acolyte of the Archangels is worse than a luck feat, and those are notoriously weak, weapon focus is bad, and combat expertise isn't bad), the skill requirements make entry from basically anything but ranger very difficult, it has nearly no offensive abilities besides getting a weapon and some random bonuses it doesn't always have, and it's chassis (HD, BAB, saves) is very poor for what seems like a melee class.

I'd recommend full BAB, changing forge of spirit to grant unique abilities to the weapon but not cost EXP or an enhancement bonus, totally reworking the state lines, and making the concentration checks/saves required by this class a bit harder to make (unless it was your intent for them to just be a "fail on a one and things suck, otherwise you're OK" type thing.)

The defensive abilities it gets, transcendence (which might need to be weakened a bit with full BAB), and the ability to transfer stats are all pretty cool, and the class overall seems workable, it just needs to be upgraded a bit.

[Sir_Chivalry]

Took a while, but I've edited the parts you suggested. What do you think? Too much, not enough?

[Milskidasith]

Looks better, though, actually, Spirit warlord was probably good at a +2 or +3; +5 is a pretty huge bonus, although as a capstone, it's justifiable. The weapon abilities are nice, and it's chassis is improved. It won't be hitting super heavily offensively, but it's got a wide variety of abilities it can change every once in a while, so it's at least fairly within the +0 PrC area. I'd definitely buff the Acolyte of Archangels feat, though.

[Sir_Chivalry]

Originally Posted by Milskidasith

Looks better, though, actually, Spirit warlord was probably good at a +2 or +3; +5 is a pretty huge bonus, although as a capstone, it's justifiable. The weapon abilities are nice, and it's chassis is improved. It won't be hitting super heavily offensively, but it's got a wide variety of abilities it can change every once in a while, so it's at least fairly within the +0 PrC area. I'd definitely buff the Acolyte of Archangels feat, though.

No can do (at the moment) with the Acolyte of the Archangels feat, it is identical to Knight of the Stars, Disciple of Darkness, Thrall to Demon, Servant of Heaven and Favoured of the Companions. Those feats are just part of the package of doing a PrC like this, though in time I hope to build a feat more like Brand of the Nine Hells for these guys, something with actual benefits.

[Milskidasith]

Couldn't you upgrade all of them to be less useless?

[Sir_Chivalry]

Originally Posted by Milskidasith

Couldn't you upgrade all of them to be less useless?

I could, but we'd run into a tiny problem with Thrall to Demon (infinite layers). In order to build a feat similar to Brand of the Nine Hells, I need to know the paragons I'm dealing with, which means designing them first. I'll give Agapeial a try, let me know what you think. I'm off to bed.

[Sir_Chivalry]

Okay made some upgrades to all the Acolyte of the Archangels feats in the threads.

[MythMage]

Originally Posted by DracoDei

My first thought on this project as a whole has been that the whole idea of TYPES of angels having a leader strikes me as implausible, since they are all supposed to be working together towards a common goal.

I don't think it's implausible. First, at least in all versions of D&D I'm aware of, the angels are not united toward a common purpose, other than an abstract desire to see good prevail wherever possible. Angels are primarily good beings who serve greater good beings, particularly good deities. Those gods (etc) determine what the majority of angels are working towards, not the angelic leadership. Second, if they were coordinating themselves even while doing the will of diverse and sometimes opposing gods, that in no way precludes leadership by group. Each class of angel has a different set of skills; each angelic leader might take that specialty to its utmost perfection, and help see that the angels of that caste are contributing as they should toward the shared goal. At any rate, this is no odder than the guardinals having racial paragons.

[Sir_Chivalry]

Reopening this so someone can PEACH it, doing a little PEACH exchange.

Note:

Originally Posted by Forum rules excerpt

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