Magic: the Gathering VII: Thopter? I barely knew 'er!
Yet another Magic thread by me, Shas'aia Toriia! 'Cause I'm sure you weren't sick of looking at me yet!
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It's the 7th official Magic: the Gathering thread on Giantitp forums!
This is the place for everything regarding the game - rules questions, your own card creations, decks, reports, rants about recent sets/cards/rules changes, the storyline, favorite cards/colors/sets/characters/pros/articles, the absolute glory/terrible creation that is Elder Dragon Highlander, whatever you can think of.
And definitely don't be shy if you're new to the game or think about starting. We're pretty casual players around here anyway. (Except, you know, those of us who play in tourneys.)
If you want, you can post decks and have them placed here in a list similar to the one below! Just, you know, tell me. Definitely multiple times because I will forget.
The Deck Gallery:
That deck focuses on getting the kill as fast as possible, and is an extremely simple deck to play - I gave it to my mom, and she managed to beat me with it, twice out of three games. The other one was multiplayer, and did manage to take down somebody else before I did the same to her.
It has a very good record, wins most games it plays and consistenly trounces my Faerie deck.
Start the game off by playing Flamekin Harbinger to tutor up either Nova Chaser or the Soulstoke, depending on what you need more. Then play Smokebraider for some cheap mana. Play Incandescent Soulstoke turn three, and up to 3 Nova Chasers through the Soulstoke's ability turn 4 for the win.
If they somehow survive this, just champion Flamekin Harbinger, fling your Nova Chasers and Changeling Berserkers at the opponent. When they do, search up a new one and do it again! Vengeful Firebrand is great end game. He'll likely have haste from one of the many warriors in the deck, and his firebreathing effect quickly escalates from Smokebraider's ability.
Conspiring Ultimatums, a truly magical, non-budget deck by tgva8889
Gameplay:
When playing this deck, it's important to survive the early game. Once you get into the late game, any deck without an abundance of counterspells will suddenly be faced with an onslaught of powerful spells. Between the 5 game-winners, one being a repeatable spell, the 4 Naya Charms, and the 3 Primal Commands and 4 Cone of Flames to control the game a bit, this deck should have no problem pushing through a late-game backbreaker. Maelstrom Archangel is there to help you push through some spells; after all, it's not very likely you'll be able to play two Ultimatums in one turn, is it?
In terms of your early game, the key to surviving is to play Sprouting Thrinax, Naya Charm, and Cone of Flame as much as possible to slow down your foe. In addition, don't be afraid to take a bit of damage; you can afford to go down to 10 or even 5 before you're really in dire straits. The Primal Commands can gain you some important life early on, and it's not uncommon to be casting Maelstrom Archangel on turn 5 if it's in your opener, so the Angel can act as a last-ditch blocker if need be. Garruk's Beast tokens are also extremely helpful in surviving to your big guns, and Garruk himself provides you some acceleration that can get you there faster.
Naya Charm is truly your ace in the hole. Acting as Regrowth, Lash Out, and a fourth of Cryptic Command is truly something amazing. However, don't be afraid to spend Naya Charm early on. If you get Wort up and running, you can recycle your Naya Charms with your other cards extremely easily.
Remember, the objective with this deck is to conspire ridiculous spells for ridiculous fun. If you're about to lose, don't be afraid to Conspire Conflux and show off your deck in a glorious fashion. It's all about making big explosions, after all!
The basic strategy is to play evasive creatures with nice CIP abilities, then bounce them with ninja to replay them again, gaining tons of card advantage. Save the instant counters for things you can't handle, like high cost spells that Spellstutter Sprite can't hit, or board-wiping spells. The deck has lots of disruption and can usually play pretty aggressively. Nearly every spell can potentially 2-for-1 the opponent, giving me control of the game thanks to my strong card advantage. It's a very cheap deck to build due to being made entirely of commons, yet I find that it's still a solid deck to play in other casual formats as well. Its biggest weaknesses appear to be board-sweeping spells and pingers, so my sideboard is built to accomidate either of those threats. Peppersmoke handles most pingers and can decimate casual aggro decks. Remove Soul is also good against aggro, while Negate is for control decks that have been popular lately. Echoing Truth is to stop pauper storm decks based on Empty the Warrens, and the Mistblade Shinobi is for keeping midrange creature decks off balance.
Mirrinus' Pauper Mono White Control
Spoiler
Deck: Sarutabaruta (or just call it Pauper Mono-W Control)
Format: MTGO Pauper Classic
(Note: the circles of protection were common when printed in 7th edition, so they're legal for pauper.)
Anyway, I realized that most decks for pauper are creature-heavy, due to the lack of mass removal. So I built a deck designed to crush aggro strategies. I run a wealth of removal spells, some of which can earn card advantage. My creatures are few, but are versatile and are great both early and late game, oftentimes utilizing my excess mana to the fullest. The Kami of Ancient Law in the sideboard is mostly to switch in against creature-light decks as an early beater, or to replace Holy Light against white decks. I figure that if a deck is playing white, it's likely to be playing white enchantment-based removal like Oblivion Ring or Temporal Isolation, so the Kami would be great at keeping my other creatures clear of these answers.
What I'm still considering, though, is the removal suite. I like Fire at Will for its potential for card advantage, particularly against weenie swarms like Slivers. Unmake is also great simply for the lack of the attack/blocker clause. The Dawn Charms are there mostly for versatility, as I can usually think of a good use for it. I'm not sure if I should be maindecking the Holy Lights, though. So far, they've only been useful against pinger decks, Empty the Warrens, and certain elf builds. However, given that Storm may be one of the best pauper builds, Holy Light affords me with my best chance of trumping Empty the Warrens. But most of all, I'm debating Judge Unworthy. On one hand, having 8 removal spells that require attacking/blocking is kind of restrictive; on the other hand, it's my cheapest removal spell, and my only removal option for turn 2. The Scry is oftentimes a toss-up; getting rid of excess land is great, but I've had instances where I needed to draw another land, but can't put a land on top of my deck with Scry if I want to kill a creature. I guess Temporal Isolation is a possible substitute, but it's pretty lousy in the Silvers matchup, which is perhaps the most common deck played in the pauper casual room as of late.
I'm still debating whether Relic of Progenitus should be in the sideboard; perhaps I could use more aggro options to switch in against creature-light decks, even though those tend to be fewer in number for this format.
So, what does this deck do? At its core, this deck is made to abuse Mirror Sheen with various effects that can target me. Beneficial effects like Compulsive Research, Oona's Grace, and Walk the Aeons can be spread to both myself and my teammate, especially in MTGO 2HG, where turns are taken separately. Meanwhile, burn spells like Electrolyze, Cone of Flame, and Conflagrate can spread their damage to point just 1 damage at me, allowing me to copy them as well.
My plan is to lay down some beefy blockers and control the board with versatile burn while building up mana and drawing cards for both me and my partner. Lots of card drawing spells plus Drift of Phantasms allows me to quickly find Mirror Sheen, while Hinder (my counterspell of choice in extended) and Swerve protect me and my flagship enchantment. With Mirror Sheen on the board, most of my spells become super-charged. Eventually, I will seek to win the game with a huge, crazy turn. Most commonly, I'll flashback Conflagrate for just 2 mana, discarding my hand of 7-8 cards and targetting myself with just 1 point of its damage, then pump all of my mana into copying that huge Conflagrate. With 8 mana available and 7 cards in hand, that's 20 damage divided as I choose, perfect for eliminating all blockers for my partner's alpha strike, or just sending it all to the dome. Or I can copy Walk the Aeons (and buy it back) before this too. Either way, my other goal is to supercharge my partner's deck, which I hope will make the game very fun for both of us. Most players appreciate being given extra cards and turns, right?
I still have no idea what I would do for the sideboard, as that doesn't usually come up for 2HG, but it might matter if I take the deck out for a spin in 1-on-1 duels, where it'd play more like a combo deck with heavy control elements. I'm also not sure about a few individual choices. Should I run cheaper burn that can't synergize well with Mirror Sheen? Are more board sweepers necessary? Do I have enough defense to avoid being run over in the early game? Is my mana base stable enough to support UUU for Plumeveil and RR in Cone of Flame and Conflagrate, or should I cut the Cone of Flames? Is Cone of Flames even worth 5 mana? Is Swerve any good at all? (It can counter counterspells by changing their target!)
This deck is built around my personal favorite creature, Twilight Shepherd. It started out as a simple WUB blink deck, but then morphed into a toolbox-style deck revolving around 1-mana artifacts. Nearly every single card syngergizes with Twilight Shepherd. Any of the sacrificed artifacts can be returned to my hand with the angel's ability, evoke becomes absurd when the angel activates, CIP creatures play nicely with her, and wiping the board with Magus of the Disk tends to be rather one-sided when all my stuff comes back to me, including the Magus himself! But the star of the deck is Voyager Staff combined with Twilight Shepherd, which basically lets me pay 3 mana each turn to ensure that any permanent that goes to my graveyard that turn gets returned to my hand. That includes lands like Terramorphic Expanse and Flagstones of Trokair as well (hence the high number of basic lands to fetch). Mannequin and Momentary Blink both ensure that my angel is never rid of permanently, and Trinket Mage tutors for the Staff right when I need it, or for any other silver bullet artifact. The sideboard includes stuff like Relic of Progenitus, to hose even more strategies. Lack of artifact lands is due to anti-synergy with the Magus. It's a fun deck with an insane amount of resiliance, as that angel is almost impossible to ever get rid of permanently, thanks to the massive amount of blink and recursion in the deck.
Countersliver is a classic and effective Magic deck archetype that seeks to win by playing a few cheap, efficient threats to take the early game lead, then using permission and light removal elements to prevent the late-game from coming as you press your advantage. The archetype is named after the original version, which played Crystalline Sliver as its flagship creature.
Countersliver is a good example of an effective aggro-control deck. Your creatures are weaker than your opponent's best aggro creatures, and your removal and card advantage suite isn't nearly as strong as a dedicated control player's. What you do have, though, is tempo. You have superior early-game creatures to all but the best aggro decks, and you'll be shaving pieces off your opponent's life very quickly while trying to maintain your board advantage. Countersliver especially likes to prey on slower decks. Compare a Countersliver deck to a normal permission control deck. Against a mid-range deck, both are able to stall for several turns with their counterspells. However, while the permission deck is just buying time to play a big finisher, Countersliver will have a guy in play by turn 2, and attacking the opponent relentlessly while stalling for time. In other words, it has a tangible clock in play, which will likely win before the late-game hits.
Countersliver is normally weak against fast aggro decks with superior creatures. However, my personal build contains a few elements that help that matchup. First is the high number of first-striking creatures. Bant Sureblade and Deft Duelist make formidable blockers, easily dispatching lots of popular aggro creatures with high power but low toughness. Deft Duelist is also impossible to burn out of the way, making it a particularly impressive defender. Of course, both are also rather nasty on offense as well. Another nice card in the aggro matchup is Ethercaste Knight. 3 toughness means it can handle many early-game opposing creatures with ease, and it can lend power to my offense without ever having to tap. My favorite starting plays with this deck involve Esper Stormblade on turn 2, followed by Ethercaste Knight on turn 3 with one land up for Mana Tithe. I get to swing for 4 points of flying starting on turn 3, which can lead to a turn 7 win. With Ethercaste Knight blocking on the ground and a slew of countermagic and removal, I'm likely to win a damage race with just those two creatures.
The key to playing this deck is to not overextend with your creatures, and to keep mana open for counters available as often as possible, even if you aren't actually holding a counter. Exalted lets you finish games quickly without having to play many additional creatures. I prefer my fliers for attacking while keeping the first strikers back for defense to win the damage race against aggro. Of course, if you have a clear creature advantage, by all means attack en masse! Just be sure to have countermagic on hand in case they drop a big creature or removal spell. The good thing about this deck is that practically every single spell costs just 2 mana or less (I don't count the borderposts, as I usually pay their alternate cost), which means by turn 4 you can feasibly drop another threat and still have Mana Leak or Remove Soul ready. The deck desperately wants to hit UW by turn 2 (an opening hand that can't do this should be mulliganed), but with 4 Terramorphic Expanses and 4 Borderposts, that shouldn't be too hard to do, at least in my testing thus far.
If you want a sideboard, I would recommend trying out Steel of the Godhead. Against decks light on removal but heavy on aggro, this card is a total beating that almost ensures victory in the damage race. Just keep in mind that you can't enchant your Azorius First-wings or Deft Duelists. In such a matchups where I'd want Steel of the Godhead, such as against aggressive red decks, I'd probably swap out the griffins for Vedalken Outlander.
Oh Lawd, my now seasoned Magic: The Gathering (tm) mind cries when it sees all of these X1's! As some people can guess, this isn't the most... stable of decks.
But, boy howdy, is it fun to play! The creatures it can manufacturer are always loaded with power. This is mostly from all of the synergy. My enchanted creatures make other enchanted creatures more powerful (and in the case of magemarks, give them extra abilities!).
Plus, it's fairly fast. Personal clicks can attest to its ability of bringing out big baddies in a relatively short amount of time.
However, I could always do with making it faster. In fact, this deck is in dire need of optimization, so I will acquiesce to your greater abilities playground if you would deign to help me.
Fun Combinations; Double Vigor. Need I say more? Happy Song (Mayael's Aria) (at begining of upkeep, stuff, then win the game if you control creature with power 20 or greater) combined with Mossbridge Troll (tap a bunch of creatures, Mossbridge Troll gets +20/+20 til end of turn.
Mycoloth.
Another Mycoloth.
Spellbreaker Behemoth's to stop your big things from getting countered.
Spearbreaker Behemoth to stop them getting killed.
Vigor to make them tougher.
Hamletback Goliath+Mycoloth. I spawn more Saprolings. My Hamletback gets bigger.
I'm trying to work out what to remove for a Windbrisk Raptor and a Rage Reflection. Any suggestions?
And secondly; Foily Noble Hierach.
To start off with this deck, you want to either strip their hand away with Gerrard's Veridct or search for something good with Demonic Tutor. Once you have Graveborn muse in play, just start accumalating card advantage. If they try to attack, prevent the damage with Oriss, or block with Forbidding Watchtower. Finish off the game with Liliana Vess or Divinity of Pride. Above all, though, don't be afraid to Wrath often. With 4 wrath effects and 6 tutors, you can always get more.
Lastly, there is a soft lock in this deck. See if you can find what it is.
The basic premise of the deck is to use the triggered come into play or leaves play effects on creatures, repeatedly, in order to bring about an effective soft lock on the game through denial. This is achieved through taking two keywords abilities (Evoke and Persist)... and breaking them soundly over your knee.
The core of the deck is the interaction between Cauldron of Souls (the only card in the deck that gives creatures Persist) and Elemental creatures with Evoke alternative casting costs. In response to the Evoke's triggered effect, you tap Cauldron of Souls to give the Evoked creature Persist. It leaves play, then returns to play, causing its triggered come into play ability to go on the stack a second time, for no additional mana cost.
Example: If I evoke a Mulldrifter for 2U, when it comes into play, I draw two cards. Since I paid the Evoke cost, the triggered effect goes on the stack. I give it Persist via Cauldron of Souls, and when it comes into play a second time, I draw two more cards.
Example 2: The interaction between Spitebellows and Cauldron of Souls is fundamentally the same, except that the creature's ability triggers when it leaves play, rather than comes into play. However, when Persist brings Spitebellows back into play, it has a zero toughness courtesy of its -1/-1 counter from Persist, sending it cheerfully back to the graveyard a second time, allowing for either 12 damage to be done to one creature, or 6 damage to be done to two separate creatures.
The typical play of the deck leaves it feeling like its ramping a little slowly. Turns 1-5, you'll probably only have played an Armillary Sphere, Cloudstone Curio, Cauldron of Souls, and land. ***NOTE*** This deck likes its mana, and digging up lands with the Armillary Sphere is crucial.
Once turn 6 hits, however, you'll be causing some serious hurt, having surprisingly rapid, effective tools at your disposal during your turn. Mournwhelk empties your opponent's hand, Shriekmaw and Spitebellows tear down your opponent's creatures, while Stingscourger stalls out their creatures. Supreme Exemplar is the only huge beater in the deck, though clearing the opposing board, casting a Spitebellows (not Evoking), and then giving it +2/+0 and Haste via Inner-Flame Acolyte (if not +4/+0) can give you a suitable beater as well. Otherwise, your damage comes from lightweight, evasive creatures like Shriekmaw and Mulldrifter.
This deck isn't especially meant to play against terribly competitive players, but it *can* perform against moderately fast decks. The difference is that it moves slightly slower, and loses out on creatures, because instead of holding on to your Evoke creatures, you'll be playing them in to deal with threats on board. I've got a list of cards that I personally intend to use to tinker with the deck even further, but I'll leave the deck *as is* for the purpose of posting it. I want people to be able to tinker with it, and the deck *does* work well in its current form.
The deck also has a number of specific weaknesses, none of which should be terribly worried about. It's meant to be a fun deck... for you. It won't be fun for them.
Please include lots of info on how to play the deck so that people who don't understand your brilliance can bask in its true glory.
Also, it should be noted that this list was maintained by tgva and Johnny Blade before Shas. He doesn't think he could have done it on his own. Except, ya' know, for the part where he did.
Last edited by Copacetic : 08-02-2010 at 09:58 PM.
List of MtG-related websites put together by Johnny Blades and others:
Spoiler
The official site. From here you can reach:
The page for Magic Online, if you want to give it a try. Note that, while you have to pay/trade for cards, there are bots who give them away for free. I don't have any experience with this, but there are people posting in this thread that do. The DCI, for organized play. Gatherer, WotC's card search.
magiccards.info, another place to waste lots of time browsing through cards. It doesn't have the user ratings and comments of Gatherer, but lists the prices of several online vendors and, surprisingly, has more card images. The interface is also better in my opinion.
MTGSalvation. That place has a lot of stuff, including a wiki, a huge forum, and many articles of varying quality. They also spoil all the cards of the next set well in advance, so this is where we'll usually get future cards from.
StarCityGames - they make you pay for much of their newer content, but what you can get for free is certainly good enough.
Elder Dragon Highlander, the official page. Very...Spartan design, but that means functionality. Always up to date and it has a forum about this popular variant multiplayer format as well.
Le Bestiaire, an online draft simulator. It gives you some pretty odd ratings sometimes, but at least there is actual feedback.
Magic Workstation, a program for...a lot of things, including collection management and online play. Supports more TCGs than just Magic. There's a freeware version available.
Deckcheck, where you can see which decks have tournament success. The decks are essentially named by the people who play them, and if you're looking for, say, Legacy decks, you'll soon find out that not all tournaments are really at Pro Tour level, but this is still an invaluable site for anyone who wants to keep up with the tournament scene.
The Mana Drain, more forums, this time for people looking into Vintage.
Tapped Out, a deck building and critique community. Build any number of decks and put them up for review/critique/comment/display. Or, keep them private. They also have pretty graphic representations of your mana curve, colour costs and colour generation.
Also, for those who don't get the title, Thopter Foundry can be abused
for fun and profit.
Also, please let me know if you want something in the first post added, edited or removed.
Last edited by Copacetic : 08-02-2010 at 09:58 PM.
Re: Magic: the Gathering: Thopter? I barely knew 'er!
Quote:
Originally Posted by memnarch
I've already built the deck. And it's for fun, so I put stuff like Oblivion Ring, Journey to Nowhere, Æther spellbomb, and Glassdust Hulk in.
A light bulb just went off in my head. Dear lord that's not right. Okay, to be fair, most decks involving Glassdust Hulk are kick-puppies-in-face level mean. See also, Time Sieve and Open the Vaults.
Re: Magic: the Gathering: Thopter? I barely knew 'er!
Just to let you know, you're missing the link to the 6th thread in the first post. Also, you're missing the Magic: the Gathering VII part too.
Also also, I like the word also.
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Re: Magic: the Gathering: Thopter? I barely knew 'er!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shas'aia Toriia
Just to let you know, you're missing the link to the 6th thread in the first post. Also, you're missing the Magic: the Gathering VII part too.
Also also, I like the word also.
Re: Magic: the Gathering VII: Thopter? I barely knew 'er!
Thopter Foundry is one of those "oh hey maybe we should pay attention to Extended" moments Wizards have been getting with recent design. Hexmage is another.
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Re: Magic: the Gathering VII: Thopter? I barely knew 'er!
It's also starting to see play in Legacy. It's not as dominating there though. People just have the resources to deal with this stuff better. I still think that the Countertop Thopters deck with Jace 2.0 is pretty scary stuff.
Re: Magic: the Gathering VII: Thopter? I barely knew 'er!
Well I meant in a "we can't design for non-standard formats" kinda of way.
Also, Mirrodin Besieged! That name came out of nowhere. But hopefully it stops some of the really, really stupid speculation that's been going on about this block.
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Re: Magic: the Gathering VII: Thopter? I barely knew 'er!
Has anyone here seen the supposed abilities for Sword of Body and Mind? I have already forgotten what they were. I just remember beign disappointed. Does anyone know if there'll be more swords with pro-green. Pro-green equipment is very handy in Legacy.
Re: Magic: the Gathering VII: Thopter? I barely knew 'er!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguinizer
Has anyone here seen the supposed abilities for Sword of Body and Mind? I have already forgotten what they were. I just remember beign disappointed. Does anyone know if there'll be more swords with pro-green. Pro-green equipment is very handy in Legacy.
+2/+2, pro green, pro blue, makes a 2/2 bear an dmills for 10 when hitting a player.
Re: Magic: the Gathering VII: Thopter? I barely knew 'er!
Went to pickup Starcraft 2 at Target today, saw a 2011 fat pack and decided to spoil myself.
Best picks were Vengeance Archon, Foil Time Reversal, and Ajani Goldmane. Time Reversal was in the same pack as the Sword which gives +2/+0 and a whole host of abilities. All in all, I am happy. :)
Now I just need more of the Ajani cards for my white deck. I've got one of the enchantments and one of the creatures, wish I had the full play set...
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Re: Magic: the Gathering VII: Thopter? I barely knew 'er!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foeofthelance
Went to pickup Starcraft 2 at Target today, saw a 2011 fat pack and decided to spoil myself.
Best picks were Vengeance Archon, Foil Time Reversal, and Ajani Goldmane. Time Reversal was in the same pack as the Sword which gives +2/+0 and a whole host of abilities. All in all, I am happy. :)
Now I just need more of the Ajani cards for my white deck. I've got one of the enchantments and one of the creatures, wish I had the full play set...
The planeswalker card sets are actually quite easy to come by, and the Ajani set are, in my opinion, the best. Some very nice pulls you have there.
Re: Magic: the Gathering VII: Thopter? I barely knew 'er!
That's really disappointing. I was hoping that the blue part would draw a card at the very least. I hope that there's at least one more with pro-green that doesn't suck.
Re: Magic: the Gathering VII: Thopter? I barely knew 'er!
If they did it, it would have been a much better card. Milling 10 does nothing in the long run. It's at most a 5 turn clock. Except Even a 1/1 would have done enough damage and pumped out enough tokens in the time to have won.
The only reason I'd play is the pro-green. Too bad the abilities tacked onto it were rather disappointing.
Re: Magic: the Gathering VII: Thopter? I barely knew 'er!
I recently put together a deck centered around Raid Bombardment. Its been working pretty smoothly, and has gone toe-to-toe with several of my friends' Legacy decks, despite being cobbled together from almost all Zendikar stuff that was lying about when I had the idea. I've been wanting to make a standard deck to go to FNM with anyways, so I figured I'd get the internet's opinion on it.
Plan A is to get Chandra's Spitfire and Raid Bombardment to hang out together. Each weenie that attacks with Spitfire boosts it by +3/+0, not to mention that it boosts itself because its power was 1 when it attacked.
So if 4 Spawn and Spitfire attack with just one Raid out, that's potentially 21 damage right there.
Unfortunately, sometimes you just can't seem to draw both. I don't have much of a solution for not drawing Spitfire, but there's plenty of things to stand in for the Raids: Cunning Sparkmages and Spawning Breath early on, and Magmaw later.
Kiln Fiend Usually gets enough food to be a decent threat. The Spawn can help pay for bigger fireballs or for Magmaw, either to play him or as fodder for his fireworks. Unstable Footing takes care of Fog and Fog-likes (with a nice kicker to boot!). Explorer's Scope was just thrown in there for lack of and mana acceleration on hand, but usually works pretty well.
Any card suggestions/tips/etc? If there's something not in standard that would rock really hard, lemme know, and I'll just use it against my friends when they pull out their crazy infinite combo decks. Thanks!
Re: Magic: the Gathering VII: Thopter? I barely knew 'er!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguinizer
If they did it, it would have been a much better card. Milling 10 does nothing in the long run. It's at most a 5 turn clock. Except Even a 1/1 would have done enough damage and pumped out enough tokens in the time to have won.
The only reason I'd play is the pro-green. Too bad the abilities tacked onto it were rather disappointing.
I'd say this post sums up my feelings on the matter quite well. For blue they could have had some bouncing or something else that actually effects the game state.
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Re: Magic: the Gathering VII: Thopter? I barely knew 'er!
I disagree on the thoughts concerning the new Sword; milling for 10 is not a useless option. That is vicious. Losing your next ten draws hurts; I can't count the number of games I've lost over the years because even the smallest amount of mill tanked a crucial card before I could use it.
Is it "card advantage"? I'd say hell YES. I don't care if by definition it's not, because your library doesn't count as being available. That's a load of hooey to me. That's ten cards that just got blown away, and if you don't happen to have a Cane effect handy, that's it, they're just about gone. Oh, turns out you needed two of those ten cards really badly? Oh well, that's just too bad. For you.
I think I'd run it with Hellkite Charger, but that's just mean.
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Re: Magic: the Gathering VII: Thopter? I barely knew 'er!
I'm a gitty little girl today. I woke up and my husband wanted to play a game of magic before he went to work. And I played Hellkite Charger and got a bear Umbra on it with 7 lands in play....hehe It felt GREAT!
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Re: Magic: the Gathering VII: Thopter? I barely knew 'er!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainKing
I disagree on the thoughts concerning the new Sword; milling for 10 is not a useless option. That is vicious. Losing your next ten draws hurts; I can't count the number of games I've lost over the years because even the smallest amount of mill tanked a crucial card before I could use it.
Is it "card advantage"? I'd say hell YES. I don't care if by definition it's not, because your library doesn't count as being available. That's a load of hooey to me. That's ten cards that just got blown away, and if you don't happen to have a Cane effect handy, that's it, they're just about gone. Oh, turns out you needed two of those ten cards really badly? Oh well, that's just too bad. For you.
I think I'd run it with Hellkite Charger, but that's just mean.
Milling, in essence, is a bad burn spell that can not target creatures. It takes more time to kill the enemy than pure damage, and has no effect on the board position. In several cases, it has the distinct option of actually making the situation worse. The "Card Advantage" you refer to does not exist here. Milling 10 actually benefits your opponent more often than you might think. Your opponent's Knight of the Reliquaries/Goyfs/whatnot will be rather happy when you mill another land or two or the type they were missing. In essence, no benefit compared to the actual possibility of being worse off. If you were not forced to mill, I'd be happier.
Bouncing a creature on the other hand might end up being too strong. Take for example a Sword of Fire and Ice vs. the most common tribal opponents. If you manage to keep them off of two lords. You essentially can freely kill a creature every turn. The tempo advantage granted by bouncing would be really strong. I personally think that a scrying or top effect might not be too overpowering.
Re: Magic: the Gathering VII: Thopter? I barely knew 'er!
That is a positively absurd excuse. "Half" the game is ways to kill creatures; I refuse to accept that "carving a giant chunk out of their deck and probably stripping them of the tools they need to destroy you" is defeated by the idea that there are creatures who play off of cards being in the graveyard. ESPECIALLY in (if I'm not mistaken) your primary format, which if I recall, is Legacy, where there are so many sweepers now that you can't *breathe* without looking at one.
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Re: Magic: the Gathering VII: Thopter? I barely knew 'er!
The thing is. Legacy has precisely 3 minor player decks that run sweepers. Those are The Mighty Quinn, Landstill decks playing white, or The Gate which plays Nevinnyral's Disk. None of these are metagame staples, and the first 2 are becoming increasingly rare. The closest thing to a commonly played Sweeper is Devastating Dreams. Which is played in a deck that actively benefits from milling (Aggro-Loam).
Milling a 5th is at most likely to hit one of their 4-ofs. This is hardly devastating. The only deck that's hurt by losing a singleton and has no way (to easily) recur it is Combo. Against which an equipment that is functional at the earliest by turn 4 is just too slow.
Decks that benefit from being milled:
Dredge
Reanimator
Lands.dec / Aggro-loam / Loam based decks in general
New Horizons / Anything with Knight of the Reliquary and/or Terravore
Decks that get minor benefits:
Zoo / anything with Goyf/Grim Lavamancer
Enchantress, you pretty much give them 4 free targets for Replenish.
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Magic: the Gathering VII: Thopter? I barely knew 'er!
