E6 demographics - been done yet?

[Altair_the_Vexed]

In the 3.5 DMG we have a set of demographic tables to populate thorpes, towns and cities with appropriately levelled examples of the NPC and PC classes.

In an E6 game, where the top limit is 6th level plus feats, these tables just don't work.
Not only is the limit 6th, but it's generally said that such people are the world famous exceptions in a far lower level population.

So - has anyone already re-done the demographic tables for an E6 game?

(Or will I be the first?)

[Darkxarth]

To my knowledge, you will be the first. I for one, would appreciate it if you would be willing to share your information with us once you have completed it (or if you find it elsewhere).

[Yora]

There are several aproaches how to handle 6th level characters in an E6 game.
In one a 6th level character is as rare as a 20th level under standard rules.
In the approach I prefer, all characters of 7th to 20th level are now 6th level with extra feats. If you use this one, just roll up demographics like usual, but reduce all characters above 6th level down to 6th level and add one extra feat for each level you removed.

[Aran Banks]

Yora, I don't think that addresses the OP.

Altair, I barely read the demographic pages of the DMG. Could you spell out exactly why it doesn't work so that I can address those problems?

[Yora]

While he seems to prefer the other approach, I think it's still a valid option to suggest for that particular problem.

[Darkxarth]

Originally Posted by Yora

While he seems to prefer the other approach, I think it's still a valid option to suggest for that particular problem.

Except that if you take all characters from 7-20 and make them 6th level (with or without extra feats) you end up with a LOT of epic, legendary heroes. Obviously, this might not apply to every E6 setting, but the default assumption seems to be that level 6 characters are comparatively rare.

The easiest solution would be, I suppose, to take the standard 1-6 demographics and change the numbers but keep the proportions. A more accurate solution might be to keep the current demographics and simply re-assign the E6 levels.

	E6	20
	1	1-4
	2	5-7
	3	8-10
	4	11-13
	5	14-16
	6	17-18
	6 and 5 feats	19
	6 and >5 feats	20

[imp_fireball]

Originally Posted by Darkxarth

Good idea.

Except, if feats only cost 5000Xp, and the Xp required to go from 18 - 19 is in the millions, shouldn't the number of feats that be that value divided by 5000 (round down)? The same goes for 19 - 20.

Alternatively you could say the 'maximum number of feats' is <the above + any feats possible to be acquired when advancing up to 6th level> for characters of those ECL. Anything above 20th level could just have a CR rating higher than 20 as worked out by GM discretion - but that is no doubt a chore for any GM.

Also, someone probably needs to mod the javascript on myth weavers to accommodate these demographics and call it 'E6 Demographics'. You can get permission if you like.

[Darkxarth]

Originally Posted by imp_fireball

Good idea.

Except, if feats only cost 5000Xp, and the Xp required to go from 18 - 19 is in the millions, shouldn't the number of feats that be that value divided by 5000 (round down)? The same goes for 19 - 20.

Alternatively you could say the 'maximum number of feats' is <the above + any feats possible to be acquired when advancing up to 6th level> for characters of those ECL. Anything above 20th level could just have a CR rating higher than 20 as worked out by GM discretion - but that is no doubt a chore for any GM.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm an idea man, let someone else crunch the numbers.

Also, someone probably needs to mod the javascript on myth weavers to accommodate these demographics and call it 'E6 Demographics'. You can get permission if you like.

Are you talking about the town generator?

[imp_fireball]

Are you talking about the town generator?

Yes I'm talking about the town generator.

[Roc Ness]

You might like to convert the sample armies in Heroes of Battle, too.

[imp_fireball]

The number of feats for advancing from 18 - 19 or 19 - 20 would be over one thousand apparently - which is a huge chore (I'm not even sure that many feats exist in the books).

Maybe there should be some conversion formula for acquiring templates, class features and (Ex), (Su), (Sp), etc. abilities? They could be called upgrades.

Ie. - 5 feats = 1 (Su) ability worth +1 LA.
Or
20 feats = For the purpose of learning spells, spells/day, caster level and maximum level spell slot and spells known, you are 1 level higher. Every time you take this upgrade, the cost increases equivalent to 10 feats. So the second time, it would cost 30 feats, the third time 40 feats, etc.

[Cieyrin]

Originally Posted by imp_fireball

Except, if feats only cost 5000Xp, and the Xp required to go from 18 - 19 is in the millions, shouldn't the number of feats that be that value divided by 5000 (round down)? The same goes for 19 - 20.

It's not a direct conversion of XP to feats, like how Yora's version is semi-linked to, but the rarity of such characters. Not having played any E6 myself, I can't say how common 6th level characters actually are but I rather doubt most E6 games would approach the number of feats you're talking about.

I think Xarth's table is a good approximation, though applying it to the actual demographics table may mean some tweaking may be needed.

[DragoonWraith]

The problem with using the XP from 18th to 19th to determine the number of Feats is that it's disproportional to the fact that you have 6th as the new 17th. You need to scale that XP by the difference between 18th in D&D and 6th in E6. What I would do is this:

And then determine the number of feats that much XP would give you.