And.... yeah. Rilath can already break the economy with Fabricate, but he doesn't do so for reasons Starscream stated. Rilath would most likely not even use it to help around the town, except for reconstructing the town to get it back to a survivable state.
Obad Hai seems like Rilath's kind of god with his philosophy. Hmmm.
All good points; ah well. Fortunately, my character is inhumanly wise, and has max ranks in Knowledge(religion). Oh well. Guess I'll just craft for myself, once I figure out how much GP/XP I have to spend.
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Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
Server closed. Story took three sessions. All five players in attendance for first and second, four players for third.
Returned home to Dagger Rock to find that your teleportation spell shunted you to the Stone Circle in the woods. The Thieves Guild set this up to waylay demons who were infesting the town, controlling the populace with magic spores, and causing widespread destruction.
Fought them in the town square, discovered that this is all a plot by Zuggtmoy to get revenge/a new body/your pyramids. Traveled underground to the mansion, solved a puzzle to get a cure for the mind controlled townsfolk, killed the cultist and demons upstairs, and faced Zuggtmoy's ghost (who drained Deego to 0 strength, possessed Muku, and was finally banished when the cocoon her new body was growing in was destroyed).
Afterward you used the wands you acquired to free the populace from the demons' control. The next day, a battalion of the king's soldiers arrived. They had been told that the town was as good as lost, and were prepared to do whatever was necessary to free it from demonic control. When the king received word that the emergency was over, he declared a holiday and summoned you all to be rewarded. All five of you are now Lords of the realm. As Madila and Ornald already had this honor, they are additionally given the title of Viscount.
In addition, the king declares a special allowance to be given to rebuild what was once Russet Manor, as it sustained a lot of damage and will now house more people. Basically I'm treating it as if your group as a whole got the Landlord feat from the Stronghold Builder's Guide. At your level, that's 300,000 gp to spend, but only on the stuff in that book. As you level, more funds will be made available. Oh, and any of your own funds you put in are effectively doubled for the purpose of this feat, so if you need an extra 3000 gp to add something you want, it only costs you 1500. And no, you can't cash out this money for buying other stuff; the reason I can give you so much for free without destroying game balance is that it's staying in one place.
Since, as was pointed out to me, the odds of everyone agreeing on a layout are remote, feel free to just divide up the money (60k each) and everyone can design their own living space. Buy rooms, staff, special architecture, whatever. Just keep it sensible enough that it can all be combined in a single structure (so agreeing on some simple things like how many floors and what the external walls should be made out of is necessary). I'll glue it all together as best I can and make a map out of it. Oh, and think of a name for the place, as "Russet Manor" is no longer appropriate.
A few other improvements around town were requested. Ornald wants to train the Skiurids to patrol the town in return for mules to feed off of. Madila wants to train monks in her dojo for a similar purpose. All this will increase the value of the town, and thus the amount you bring in as taxes.
Also, it was generally agreed upon that the Key of Earth was the next goal. Null, is that alright with you?
Now for Crunch.
XP:
1 Glabrezu, 1 Chasme, 1 Bulezau, 1 Broodswarm and 4 Armanites defeated by 5 players: 1690 xp each.
1 Retriever defeated by 5 players: 390 xp each.
2 traps (1 CR 10, 1 CR 5) dealt with by 4 players: 260 xp each
4 Babaus, 1 13th level cleric, and the Ghost of Zuggtmoy defeated by 4 players: 1788 xp each.
Treasure:
+2 Keen Sickle (18306 gp)
+2 Buckler (4165 gp)
Divine Scroll (Flame Strike, Plane Shift, Blade Barrier) (3900 gp)
Bag of Holding 2 (5000 gp)
Carving of Zuggtmoy made out of emerald (1980 gp)
2021 pp
3175 gp
Additionally, taxes are due, and it amounts to an extra 50,000.
__________________
Terrible avatars throughout the ages! (All by me.)
Next key doesn't particularly matter to me, earth sounds good.
Also weee! Own castle! I'd probably make a small library, living quarters, and maybe teach some combat sorcerers of my own. Not sure if that feat lets you train guards or similar.
Next key doesn't particularly matter to me, earth sounds good.
Earth or Air were the logical next choices. A single Key contains a 6th level spell, two combined is a 7th or 8th level spell, and three is a 9th level spell. Water would cancel out Fire, so one of these two will get you earlier access to a 9th.
To be honest, I'm kinda glad you chose Earth (which Ornald wants because it matches his Domains). I've put a fair amount of thought into what story will surround that one, more than I have with Air or Water. I do know, in general terms, what each Key will involve, but this one I've got the most figured out.
Quote:
Also weee! Own castle! I'd probably make a small library, living quarters, and maybe teach some combat sorcerers of my own. Not sure if that feat lets you train guards or similar.
Well, sorcerers are born, not made, so it's not like you can just recruit them off the street. But I suppose you could find a couple of candidates if you look far enough afield.
As for guards, a typical one costs 6gp a month. That's for a 1st level warrior. If you want higher level one, I think you assume the cost doubles for each level. But these guys are intended for simple patrol duty and not battling monsters (that's your job), and a 1st level one is certainly enough for keeping commoners in line.
Do any of you not have access to the Stronghold Builder's Guide? I should have asked that before. If you don't (and don't know anyone who does), I could type up a couple of the relevant tables and answer any questions you have.
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Terrible avatars throughout the ages! (All by me.)
Well, sorcerers are born, not made, so it's not like you can just recruit them off the street. But I suppose you could find a couple of candidates if you look far enough afield.
As for guards, a typical one costs 6gp a month. That's for a 1st level warrior. If you want higher level one, I think you assume the cost doubles for each level. But these guys are intended for simple patrol duty and not battling monsters (that's your job), and a 1st level one is certainly enough for keeping commoners in line.
Do any of you not have access to the Stronghold Builder's Guide? I should have asked that before. If you don't (and don't know anyone who does), I could type up a couple of the relevant tables and answer any questions you have.
also what kind of terrain and surroundings are in the area, as pertains to building material availability and cost modifiers? and what about below ground?
also... i'm looking at using this spreadsheet http://www.sagehawk.com/dloads/stronghold.zip to help with the building stuff.. simplify some things.. could you take a look at it and tell what kind of terrain and other modifiers are appropriate?
also, are we going to be around to use our own spells and powers to help with the construction? fabricate, earth to mud, TK, stone wall, etc..
also... i'm looking at using this spreadsheet http://www.sagehawk.com/dloads/stronghold.zip to help with the building stuff.. simplify some things.. could you take a look at it and tell what kind of terrain and other modifiers are appropriate?
also, are we going to be around to use our own spells and powers to help with the construction? fabricate, earth to mud, TK, stone wall, etc..
That's a pretty useful spreadsheet, and I recommend it for you all, especially if you don't have the book available.
Okay, let's see...
Climate: Temperate Terrain: Plains Size of Primary Settlement: Large Town Distance to Stronghold: 1-16 miles Stronghold Type: Depends on how big you make your individual areas, how well they can be joined, whether you make some sort of common area (pool money to buy one large kitchen instead of 5 small ones, etc). Probably Castle or Huge Castle. Spells: Going off your character sheets (and assuming everyone is willing to pitch in spells without costly material components, since they apply discounts across the board), it looks like the party has access to:
*Air Walk / Fly
*Fabricate
*Stone Shape
*Wall of Stone (CL 9th and 12th)
*Woodshape
Combined this gives you guys quite a few discounts. And yes, you can use them, you are currently at home and overseeing the town's reconstruction while looking for leads on the next Key. Other than crafting and building, your spells have little other use at the moment, so I assume you'll be using them.
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Terrible avatars throughout the ages! (All by me.)
Let's see...
If I'm reading things correctly, we're looking at:
-65% on Stone Walls themselves (50% for wall of stone, 5% for plains, 5% for Fabricate, 5% for Stone Shape)
-60% on Luxury Spaces in stone/wood areas (50% for Fabricate, 5% for stoneshape or woodshape in stone/wood areas, 5% for plains)
-30% on Fancy spaces in stone/wood areas (20% for Fabricate, 5% for stoneshape or woodshape in stone/wood areas, 5% for plains)
-15% on "Other spaces" (5% for Fabricate, 5% for stoneshape or woodshape in stone/wood areas, 5% for plains)
-25% "of cost adjustment for height" - which is 400 gp for 3rd story work; (down to 300), although the other %'s might help ("other spaces" duplicate?) making that -40%, for the cost adjustment for 3rd story work being +240 gp per space
... although we might consider burning the "plains" 5% discount on "income source", and housing the 20 people that entails for getting 1% of the final cost of the place back every year. That'll also require a "Residential, Basic" cluster inside, at 11.5 stronghold spaces and 12,000 gp (well, 10,200, after the 15% discount)
Hewn Stone walls are 6000/unit base; we've got a 65% discount, making them cost 2,100/unit.
Wood walls are free on the ground floor, 1000/unit base above that; we've got a ... 15% discount (Plains, Fabricate, woodshape).. making them 850 gp/unit on the second floor.
I think. I could be wrong on a few details.
Let's see... Army Base + Temple + Basic Residential, plus a basic Bedroom Suite, would be...
Basic Bedroom Suite: 680: (800, -15%), and 1 stronghold space (for me)
Army Base: 20,400 (24,000, -15%), and 29 stronghold spaces
Temple: 10,430 (14,900, -30% for Fancy spaces), and 5 stronghold spaces
Basic Residential: 10,200 (12,000, -15%), and 11.5 stronghold spaces (for doing the 1% back per year thing, to cover staff costs)
=41,710 and 46.5 stronghold spaces.
46.5 stronghold spaces puts it at 60% interior, 40% exterior walls. If I go stone walls for the outside, and put half of the interior on the first floor, that's 39,060 gp for exterior walls, 11,857.5 gp for interior walls, for a grand total of 92,627.5 gp. Hmm. Over budget by 32,627.5 gp.
The Army Base portion is the biggest chunk of expense in that, due to the 29 stronghold spaces (2/3rds the walls, and 20k of the base). Anyone think having 100 soldiers handy is a sufficiently good thing that we're willing to pool funds for that portion?
__________________
Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
That spreadsheet Galliard linked is pretty good at totaling everything up, so if you want to check your math give it a try.
At a glance, though, I think you have it right.
Quote:
The Army Base portion is the biggest chunk of expense in that, due to the 29 stronghold spaces (2/3rds the walls, and 20k of the base). Anyone think having 100 soldiers handy is a sufficiently good thing that we're willing to pool funds for that portion?
Well, to get meta for a second, just how many soldiers would it take to be a challenge to you guys?
Because if you bring them into battle with you, we kind of have to assume that you are fighting a force that's either A) strong enough to challenge you guys (in which case it will slaughter soldiers by the dozen) or B) weak enough to be a reasonable challenge for the soldiers (in which case the party could easily handle it without the soldiers).
Of course, the ideal situation would be fighting an equally large army (for the soldiers to handle) headed by a few more powerful units (for you to handle).
If you guys want to spring for a private army, I'll try to find a good use for it at some point to keep it from being wasted money, but if you want to use the money for something else, I'll tell the Hordes of Mordor that you can't come out and play right now when they come around.
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How to Play Rogues Properly:
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Last edited by Starscream : 08-28-2011 at 05:29 PM.
Well, to get meta for a second, just how many soldiers would it take to be a challenge to you guys?
Because if you bring them into battle with you, we kind of have to assume that you are fighting a force that's either A) strong enough to challenge you guys (in which case it will slaughter soldiers by the dozen) or B) weak enough to be a reasonable challenge for the soldiers (in which case the party could easily handle it without the soldiers).
The plan is not to bring them into battle.
The plan is for them to deal with the riff-raff while we're away. Basically, I just want an excuse for the demon-thing and related stuffs to not happen again, if that makes sense.
Spoiler
Edit: Oh, hey: Army Base is just a collection, and can be cut in half with no difficulty. Hmm.
Edit 2: And doing so lets me store half an army, with enough budget left over for an Everfull Cupboard for the soldiers... which also lets me drop the kitchen (no food need be prepared).
Edit 3: Ah, for got the residential stuffs for the regular income to pay for everyone....
Edit 4: OK... so I've got a two-level building, 15 stronghold spaces on each, set for 50 solders, an officer for them, 30 regular people, myself, and an Acrolyte, plus servant's quarters for 46,715.75 gp .... and I'm going to need about ten instances of the "1% back each year" to cover salaries.
Ten instances brings it to ... 70,073.625 gp. Hmm. Maybe just 40 soldiers? Brings it down to 8 instances, and also means a few fewer stronghold spaces... 43533.75*1.40=60947.25. 30 soldiers? 41586.25, and 7 instances, for 56,141.4375 gp... before the Everfull Cupboard. Eh, I can make up the difference to cover that one out of petty cash.
Ah, man... was reading the interior/exterior method wrong on the walls... back to the drawing board....
Edit 5: Alternate plan of attack, mostly due to the inner/outer wall issues (percentage of one vs. the other changes based on the number of stronghold spaces)
Determine what features each individual player would like, and go from there? For instance, if we all want a fancy bedroom suite to ourselves (one each), I want a fancy chapel, one person wants a fancy library, another a Fancy magical laboratory, and a third a Fancy Smithy, and each of us wants a Fancy Office, it's simpler to figure out what the budget is for the rest of the place.
What I'd be looking to have:
Fancy Chapel
Fancy Bedroom Suite
Fancy Bath
Certain things can be shared - the Fancy bath, for instance.
What does everyone else want?
Edit 6:
Also: We might want to invest in a Lyre of Building - a 13k investment that saves us 30% (and with a 300k budget, that's 90k) and yes, I can arrange to pass the check by taking ten (Divine Insight, Spell Compendium: Cleric-2, 5+CL (Max 15) Insight bonus to a skill check).
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Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
Last edited by Jack_Simth : 08-28-2011 at 09:38 PM.
oh well.. someone gimme an idea and i'll fix this code thingy
anyways.. my concept was for the dojo/school.. it has classrooms and training areas at the ground level, along with a simple kitchen and other necessities, along with a 10 man barraks, for the martial arts students and a single basic bedroom suite on the second floor. the idea was for the classrooms to be a basic school open to everyone, teaching reading, riting and rithmatic and basic self defense for free..
the real secret is underneath though.. in a hidden and locked passage (secret door 35, with an illusionary wall on top of it) it goes down 2 levels, the pathway protected by aa series of gates, to a multi-level complex used as a retreat/storage area.. it has a very large, well organized section for storing supplies (20 ss of fancy storage) and a very large housing area (20 ss of barraks and 20 ss of servants quarters) meant to house as many as possible during an emergency, along with the basic necessities (bathrooms, kitchens,a decent sized basic library, a large common area and auditorium, dining hall and tavern, along with a small set of offices for administration stuff, and a good sized armory. bellow that theres a moderate sized basic chapel, a crypt, a small prison, and good magic, alchemy and smith shops.
included is a pair of decanter of endless waters, one set up to provide running water throughout the area, and a second locked away as a backup
after everything is done and added up, the final cost out of pocket for madila is 44734.125 gp.
and i can realy keep maintnence down by basicly mothballing all the 'service' rooms, since they arent meant for regular use.
Oh, it has come to my attention that Dragon Magazine #295 contains an article listing additional Stronghold Components.
If any of these sound interesting to you, let me know and I'll post the relevant info.
* Classroom
* Concealed Passages
* Crypt
* Dining Area, Small
* Flying Creature Aerie, Large
* Flying Creature Aerie, Huge
* Game Room (more like a casino from the description)
* Indoor Archery Range
* Kennel (handy, since you have dogs. I was going to suggest a stable)
* Lava Forge (probably have to nix this one, you are nowhere near a volcano)
* Meditation Chamber (sort of a traditional peace garden for Monks)
* Observation Area
* Observation Walk
* Ossuary
* Sauna
* Strongroom
* Trap Control Room
* Wall of Force Aquarium
__________________
Terrible avatars throughout the ages! (All by me.)
Oh, it has come to my attention that Dragon Magazine #295 contains an article listing additional Stronghold Components.
If any of these sound interesting to you, let me know and I'll post the relevant info.
* Classroom
* Concealed Passages
* Crypt
* Dining Area, Small
* Flying Creature Aerie, Large
* Flying Creature Aerie, Huge
* Game Room (more like a casino from the description)
* Indoor Archery Range
* Kennel (handy, since you have dogs. I was going to suggest a stable)
* Lava Forge (probably have to nix this one, you are nowhere near a volcano)
* Meditation Chamber (sort of a traditional peace garden for Monks)
* Observation Area
* Observation Walk
* Ossuary
* Sauna
* Strongroom
* Trap Control Room
* Wall of Force Aquarium
well.. posting that didnt go as well as hoped.. any idea how to post a basic spreadsheet?
Well, I was able to copy the code, save it as html, and open it in Excel just fine.
Are you sure your math is correct? Adding up everything in excel gives me a total cost of 129605.
That's 69605 after the allowance, which is 34802.5 of your own money since out of pocket contributions count double.
Sure you need all that stuff, anyway? I mean, spend your money however you want, but Ornald is already buying a chapel, I assume Rilath will want a forge, and what the heck does a monk need with a magical laboratory, seven offices, an alchemical lab, and an auditorium, and all of it underground?
You're...you're making a Batcave aren't you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galliard
yes please
Which ones? I'd rather not scan the entire article for copyright reasons, but I'd be happy to quote the relevant stuff.
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How to Play Rogues Properly:
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Last edited by Starscream : 08-28-2011 at 10:28 PM.
Well, I was able to copy the code, save it as html, and open it in Excel just fine.
Are you sure your math is correct? Adding up everything in excel gives me a total cost of 129605.
That's 69605 after the allowance, which is 34802.5 of your own money since out of pocket contributions count double.
Sure you need all that stuff, anyway? I mean, spend your money however you want, but Ornald is already buying a chapel, I assume Rilath will want a forge, and what the heck does a monk need with a magical laboratory, seven offices, an alchemical lab, and an auditorium, and all of it underground?
You're...you're making a Batcave aren't you?
Which ones? I'd rather not scan the entire article for copyright reasons, but I'd be happy to quote the relevant stuff.
more of a refuge and safe haven for a siege. and the labs can be worked by other people.. they are there to be available when everyone is shut inside of the keep. also, that list was just of the actual SS purchases, it didnt include the doors and such, nor the magic items
for the rooms, i'm quite interested in the classroom, crypt, meditation chamber, observation area/walk, sauna, and ossuary
Haven't done any reading on building a new weapon yet, 'cause this is more interesting.
Game Room sounds like it could be awesome. House and pay the servants, then the servants gamble their money back to us. Also, we can play poker (or Go Fish for the Chobins) for high level loot items and favors. (I can see a "Shut up the chobins" token being particularly high valued)
Indoor archery range? Why not just shoot the portraits in the halls? Tell me about this one.
Classroom is interesting, but what about libraries? Muku needs mad amounts of bedtime stories, and won't tolerate Madila telling the same one over and over again. This is probably the most important one to me.
What's the difference between a Kennel and a Stables? Can a kennel only house dogs? If, for some crazy reason, Doggy gets blowed up in a fireball and Muku needs a new animal companion, he might get something that isn't a dog.
Classroom: 2 SS, 2000 gp, Requires a teacer with at least 10 knowledge ranks. Room has chairs, desks, and books for teaching various topics.
Crypt: 2 SS, 1000 gp. Pretty much what it sounds like, a place for keeping the dead.
Game Room: 2 SS, 5000 gp plus 3000 gp for "bank money". A small casino, which acts as an income source as described in the Guidebook.
Indoor Archery Range: 3 SS, 3000 gp, must be at least 100 feet long. Just like a normal archery range, but enclosed.
Kennel: .5 SS, 600 gp, requires a groom. Each kennel can house one medium or smaller sized animal. One groom can handle up to four kennels.
Meditation Chamber: 1 SS, 1000 gp, must be located in a quiet area. A small garden like room featuring benches, pools, flowers, and other relaxing stuff.
Observation Area/Walk: .5/1 SS, 400 gp, must be located over a scenic area. Just rooms or walkways where you can look down on the scenery.
Ossuary: 1 SS, 500 gp. Like a crypt but containing bones separated and organized by type.
Sauna: 1 SS, 4000 gp, must have a heat source. A steam room, wounded characters who spend an hour in it recover 1 extra hp a day.
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Terrible avatars throughout the ages! (All by me.)
If a stronghold space has Inscriptions of Concelament, and the Transparent wall augmentation, does that mean the entire thing is completely invisible? If so, I think I have my stronghold: A single stronghold space:
Transparent: 3,000 gp
Inscriptions of Concealment: 45,500 gp
Hole of Hiding: 3,000 gp
Flying: 15,000 gp
Incredible: 10 miles/hour: 25,000 gp
Hewn Stone Walls: 6,000 gp, -65%
Lead Lined: 1,000 gp, -15%
Airtight: 7,500 gp
Door, Stone: 300 gp: -15%
Adamantine Amazing Lock (DC 40): 1,500 GP
Improved Arcane Lock (Me only): 210 gp
Chamber of Comfort: 7,500 gp
Total: 111,415
Above Landlord Allowance: 51,415 gp
Requires from me: 25,707.5 gp
Invisible, one empty room, that can't be scried upon (and everything inside is invisible), with a hole to hide in and stay invisible. And it flies at 100 feet/round, all day. And is someone difficult to enter.
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Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
Of course, 10mph isn't exactly fast, except by normal creature movement standards. I suppose since it flies you could take it on a ship or something if you want to have a mobile sanctuary with you long distance, but probably nothing short of a Gate spell could let you transport it at the magical speeds you are used to traveling at this point.
If I may ask, what are you planning to do with it? Are you intending to bring it with you on your quest for the next Key, or leave it at home as a sort of mobile Panic Room?
Anyway, I'm leaving on a short road trip tomorrow, so my internet access will be sporadic. But the sooner the rest of you get me some plans for your own Strongholds, the sooner I can start trying to combine them into some sort of whole and map it. You don't all need to go and make a 3D map like Galliard, a simple description and maybe a layout sketch if you want a specific arrangement will do.
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Of course, 10mph isn't exactly fast, except by normal creature movement standards. I suppose since it flies you could take it on a ship or something if you want to have a mobile sanctuary with you long distance, but probably nothing short of a Gate spell could let you transport it at the magical speeds you are used to traveling at this point.
If I may ask, what are you planning to do with it? Are you intending to bring it with you on your quest for the next Key, or leave it at home as a sort of mobile Panic Room?
Panic room, for now, but also... we've got a crook in the area that we know about. I'm not sure I want him to know exactly where I sleep. 25,000 gp for 10 mph was as high as it goes without teleporting... and Teleporting would cost an extra 50,000 for 1/day Teleport Without Error - out of budget for now (this may change later). And as I pick up Teleport(Psionic) at 15th (next level), having a hidey-hole that isn't at a location predictable for other people could be handy... although come to that, I put Word of Recall on my list....
Later on I'll probably just improve the thing - Burrowing, submersing, Teleporting, and Plane Shifting are handy things to get, and I *might* wrap it in Walls of Force or something per the Layered Walls rules - but yeah, for now, it's a mobile panic room, and a carriage for if I want to survey an area in relative safety (activate ring of invisibility, go into main area for directing the thing, fly it around, keeping invisibility for me active through the ring).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starscream
Anyway, I'm leaving on a short road trip tomorrow, so my internet access will be sporadic. But the sooner the rest of you get me some plans for your own Strongholds, the sooner I can start trying to combine them into some sort of whole and map it. You don't all need to go and make a 3D map like Galliard, a simple description and maybe a layout sketch if you want a specific arrangement will do.
Have fun.
__________________
Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
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